Topic: Ben “Ben” Davies signs for Liverpool

[Jookie]

For me it was the psychological factor as much as anything that meant it would have been a positive contribution to bring a player in on 1 Jan [assuming said player was half decent]. It was a message, to players and fans [and indeed manager] alike, of 'we see the problem, we are going to sort it, the cavalry is coming". Instead we overplayed Fabinho and Matip until we had to press the emergency button on Kabak and Davies [as well as the strange decision to loan Minamino - quite possibly to afford it]. It all felt like we were saying to a players who had been to the wall for us for 3 years - keep going, it'll be fine, and we were storing up a problem that was just itching to come to the surface. It was never going to be fine. Even bringing in Kabak on day 1, and I am not sure he's going to be the next Baresi or whatever, it means more time to settle and get used to the systems. We're trying to - as it were - fix a plane whilst it's still in the air at the minute. Whilst a CB on Jan 1 may not have changed things much, I certainly don't think it would have done us any damage.

A lot of this is hard to prove. Particularly the phycological effects of bringing someone in on Jan 1st.  Maybe a CB, even Kabak, on Jan 1st may have been the difference maker. I just don't see how anyone can say it would have been with any conviction though.

Having centre backs since the end of January hasn't really helped us at all. They've have had 4 weeks more to settle but would that really have changed much?

For me it feels like an easy thing to point blame at whilst the obvious problems that have blighted our season, plus the one we potentially don't know about, have mounted up. I think we'd all have liked a centre back on January 1st and for the club to be proactive but I think that's much easier to say than do and I also find it hard to draw a correlation between that decision and it accounting for all the results based issues we have had since the Palace.

[classycarra]

Having centre backs since the end of January hasn't really helped us at all. They've have had 4 weeks more to settle but would that really have changed much?

Have you forgotten Fabinho's repeat muscle injury shortly after returning? Matip's injury? Those all occurred after 1 January during a compressed fixture list.

 Find it hard to believe they (and Henderson since) would have been playing so many games in quick succession following returns from injury if we had a good centre back signed 30 days earlier.

[killer-heels]

Have you forgotten Fabinho's repeat muscle injury shortly after returning? Matip's injury? Those all occurred after 1 January during a compressed fixture list.

 Find it hard to believe they (and Henderson since) would have been playing so many games in quick succession following returns from injury if we had a good centre back signed 30 days earlier.

Yep. Fabinho pretty much was patched up and played against City because nobody was ready to go. He then misses a few games after that.

Safe to say everybody has fucked up and some point this season but it’s hard to call the decision to get centrebacks so late anything other than a fuck up.

[Wengerpresser101]

He's like the Nessie Monster haha, the legend, the myth.

Hope we see him in real life soon. And Davies too lol.

[stjohns]

He's like the Nessie Monster haha, the legend, the myth.

Hope we see him in real life soon. And Davies too lol.

Aye, get the Barrow lad on. We need some steel.

[The 1989 Brit Awards]

Shades of Alexander Doni all over this one.

Well see a "Ben Davies" playing his trade in Indonesia by spring.

[VVM]

Shades of Alexander Doni all over this one.

Well see a "Ben Davies" playing his trade in Indonesia by spring.

Just looked at Doni's wikipedia after reading this. Apparently had a heart attack in 2012 during his last season for us poor guy.

[rafathegaffa83]

Just looked at Doni's wikipedia after reading this. Apparently had a heart attack in 2012 during his last season for us poor guy.

Yep. Unless confirmed otherwise, it is nothing like Doni's situation

[redmark]

You expect him to say anything else ?

Something the manager actually says, versus forum poster 'starting to feel...'. Which could be more reliable?

[MdArshad]

I am getting worried that Klopp feels that he is not good enough. Not being in the squad when the first 4 CB is injured and the emergency CB rested must show a lot. Behind Williams and Philips.

I will support him and Kabak but it is extremely amazing that we got him and Kabak on loan after the manager almost cried for help. FSG need to be 'adored' though for their work according to some here.

[Dim Glas]

I am getting worried that Klopp feels that he is not good enough. Not being in the squad when the first 4 CB is injured and the emergency CB rested must show a lot. Behind Williams and Philips.

I will support him and Kabak but it is extremely amazing that we got him and Kabak on loan after the manager almost cried for help. FSG need to be 'adored' though for their work according to some here.

I wouldn’t worry too much about it.

He was a cheap signing, pretty much a player they took a punt on due to circumstances - i.e his contract status, and our desperation. I’m sure they’ll see the rest of this season and then in pre-season if he can offer anything moving forward, and go from there.

[The 1989 Brit Awards]

Apparently had a heart attack in 2012 during his last season for us poor guy.

wow wtf, had no idea.


That's how secretive everything was at the time.

[Fromola]

wow wtf, had no idea.


That's how secretive everything was at the time.

I remember it at the time, although it may have only come out after he left.

[Bend It Like Aurelio]

I remember it at the time, although it may have only come out after he left.

It was known at the time he had heart issues, but we only found out later after he left how serious it was. I remember reading that interview and thinking how sad it is for a person that young to have such terrible heart issues.

[hide5seek]

Read a piece about Doni a while back. He was the first to tell the club to buy Becker.

[Adeemo]

Slightly surprised Davies wasn’t brought on during the closing stages last night, after the tie was wrapped up.

[Ghost Town]

Slightly surprised Davies wasn’t brought on during the closing stages last night, after the tie was wrapped up.

Think it was important to aim for the clean sheet, to help everyone's confidence, and especially that of the defence as well as enhancing the rest of the team's trust in the defence. So probably not a good time to bring on an untried player. He'll get his chances when the time is right.

[Drinks Sangria]

It's all very very odd. It's striking me as not too dissimilar to a Chelsea punt purchase (Michael Hector etc) with a view to profit down the line, rather than a long-term strategy. I don't really like the club looking at player's in that vein, though I may be being a touch cynical.

If it was more 'bring him in and bed him in slowly to see what he can do' then fair enough, but the players we've done this with before have, with the exception of Robertson, been very, very expensive players we were always going to utilise at some stage.

Robertson is the one to look at really here for him, massively under used and practically written off as a pointless signing by some, before seizing his chance and massively emerging. It does strike me as odd he's not had any minutes whatsoever, considering last season he was in the Championship and played against Premier League opposition, whereas someone like Phillips and Williams were in second division and non-league (with young Rhys especially struggling).

[Guz-kop]

It's all very very odd. It's striking me as not too dissimilar to a Chelsea punt purchase (Michael Hector etc) with a view to profit down the line, rather than a long-term strategy. I don't really like the club looking at player's in that vein, though I may be being a touch cynical.

If it was more 'bring him in and bed him in slowly to see what he can do' then fair enough, but the players we've done this with before have, with the exception of Robertson, been very, very expensive players we were always going to utilise at some stage.

Robertson is the one to look at really here for him, massively under used and practically written off as a pointless signing by some, before seizing his chance and massively emerging. It does strike me as odd he's not had any minutes whatsoever, considering last season he was in the Championship and played against Premier League opposition, whereas someone like Phillips and Williams were in second division and non-league (with young Rhys especially struggling).

Don't think theres anything cynical going on. We were up shit creek at the end of January and were really scratching around. He's a championship player who's been training with us for a month and injured for a bit of that as well. As you say, Klopp doesn't throw a lot of players straight in. Both Rhys and Nat have been training with us for 6 months and also trying to contribute in really trying circumstances. He probably has a bit of loyalty to them also. No doubt Klopp will give Davies some minutes if he's good enough. But if he leaves in the summer without a single start then so be it.

[redwillow]

I would not be surprised if we never see this lad on the pitch for first team

[Fromola]

Don't think theres anything cynical going on. We were up shit creek at the end of January and were really scratching around. He's a championship player who's been training with us for a month and injured for a bit of that as well. As you say, Klopp doesn't throw a lot of players straight in. Both Rhys and Nat have been training with us for 6 months and also trying to contribute in really trying circumstances. He probably has a bit of loyalty to them also. No doubt Klopp will give Davies some minutes if he's good enough. But if he leaves in the summer without a single start then so be it.

We were in the bargain bucket in the dying embers of January trying to get someone.

I wouldn't write him off yet. The only disappointing thing is if he was to leave without even getting a chance. Even if he doesn't play this season, he'll have had 4 months training with us and should then get chances to impress in pre-season.

It took Robertson a long time for Klopp to feel he was ready. Disappointing thing was him not even making the bench against Fulham when we were so down to the bare bones.

It's took Nat most of the season to earn Klopp's trust more and develop.

[Fromola]

A bit more clarification from the boss:

 

Ben Davies has to adapt, it was always clear. A lot of players came here to Liverpool and the most famous story is maybe Andy Robertson and it took him half a year in a normal season, where pretty much everything else was kind of settled, to settle in. Ben is a really good player but he has to get used to all the stuff here as well and these kind of things. That's how it is. What we have now still [are] options and hopefully it will stay like this.

On whether he's building up Ben Davies as a 'longer-term project'...

I don't make these kinds of judgements, really. What you are surprised about, I don't know. But I don't tell Ben now you have just to train until the middle of May and then we see further. No, no, no. It will take as long as it takes. But the problem was that it was clear that we will not start with two new centre-halves if we don't have to, because of the situation and the position. It's really important that the boys in the last line, especially, are used to each other, and the more games you can play together, the better it is. So that's why we always figured it a little bit here and there and tried to make it as consistent as possible. But a lot of things disturbed that process but now it's OK. Ben will play when he will play, so that's how it is.

[Bird Bird Bird The Bird Is The Word]

Always was an odd signing, the sort of player you'd sign in the summer, blood in cup competitions and see where you were after. I would guess that we'll take every available opportunity for Phillips and Kabak to get minutes together so they can gel and build their partnership, which doesn't leave room for Davies.

There is a three week break after the Wolves game, if he's not getting minutes soon after, then I don't think we'll see him this season and possibly not at all. As much as I don't like the idea of flipping players, if we sell him in the summer for £10m and then sign a world class forward with those funds, I would happily accept the pragmatism even if it is strongly tinged by self-interest.

Part of me wonders whether we'll keep him, use him as cover for centre back and left back, and move Tsimikas on... but that is straying far too far into football manager insanity.

[Scottymuser]

Always was an odd signing, the sort of player you'd sign in the summer, blood in cup competitions and see where you were after. I would guess that we'll take every available opportunity for Phillips and Kabak to get minutes together so they can gel and build their partnership, which doesn't leave room for Davies.

There is a three week break after the Wolves game, if he's not getting minutes soon after, then I don't think we'll see him this season and possibly not at all. As much as I don't like the idea of flipping players, if we sell him in the summer for £10m and then sign a world class forward with those funds, I would happily accept the pragmatism even if it is strongly tinged by self-interest.

Part of me wonders whether we'll keep him, use him as cover for centre back and left back, and move Tsimikas on... but that is straying far too far into football manager insanity.

If we manage to sell a 26 year old (as he turns this summer), top half of league 1/bottom half of championship CB, after barely no minutes for us after buying him for 1.7m in Jan, for anywhere near close to 10m than the market has officially gone insane, and Michael Edwards should win the Nobel Prize in economics.  He was bought in to basically act as a backup for Kabak in case he didn't work out as a new signing, himself who was bought in to be our 4th/5th choice pure-CB (and 6th/7th choice CB in the depth chart) due to our injuries to our front 3.   Selling someone like that for 10m would be financial wizardry!

As for the other question, I'd far rather us keep Tsimikas for cover at LB - at least he is actually, you know, an actual Left Back, and one who has played for his country - rather than a CB who, outside his debut season 7 years ago in League 2, has played  90 minutes in the Championship and less than 500 minutes in League One in that position in his career.  Unless the argument is about the fact that tsimilkas is foreign, and therefore is taking up a place in the squad that someone else could occupy, whereas we are lower on English-qualified players 

[Ratboy3G]

If we manage to sell a 26 year old (as he turns this summer), top half of league 1/bottom half of championship CB, after barely no minutes for us after buying him for 1.7m in Jan, for anywhere near close to 10m than the market has officially gone insane, and Michael Edwards should win the Nobel Prize in economics.  He was bought in to basically act as a backup for Kabak in case he didn't work out as a new signing, himself who was bought in to be our 4th/5th choice pure-CB (and 6th/7th choice CB in the depth chart) due to our injuries to our front 3.   Selling someone like that for 10m would be financial wizardry!

As for the other question, I'd far rather us keep Tsimikas for cover at LB - at least he is actually, you know, an actual Left Back, and one who has played for his country - rather than a CB who, outside his debut season 7 years ago in League 2, has played  90 minutes in the Championship and less than 500 minutes in League One in that position in his career.  Unless the argument is about the fact that tsimilkas is foreign, and therefore is taking up a place in the squad that someone else could occupy, whereas we are lower on English-qualified players 

I think that's a bit harsh mate, he is pretty highly regarded as Championship centre backs go so hardly "top half of league 1/bottom half of championship". He was due to sign for Celtic in the summer, whilst they certainly aren't the force they once were they certainly aren't league one standard.

Anyway, I'm sure he will benefit from the (3 week?) break now and get to work on the training pitch. I'm certain we'll see him before the end of the season.

[The 1989 Brit Awards]

Michael Edwards should win the Nobel Prize in economics.

I'd sign that petition

[Scottymuser]

I think that's a bit harsh mate, he is pretty highly regarded as Championship centre backs go so hardly "top half of league 1/bottom half of championship". He was due to sign for Celtic in the summer, whilst they certainly aren't the force they once were they certainly aren't league one standard.

Anyway, I'm sure he will benefit from the (3 week?) break now and get to work on the training pitch. I'm certain we'll see him before the end of the season.

He played for Preston North End - who up until last season *were* in League 1, and last season were bottom half of the Championship - thus my comment.  Equally, reports suggest he would not have been 1st  choice at Celtic without proving himself - Duffy is a very decent CB for their standard (one of the better players in the PL for a bottom half team when he was at Brighton). and Jullien was a very decent CB in France.  And I'd argue Celtic, especially this season, would  be a relegation-standard PL team, or a top 6 Championship team

[Eeyore]

Why are people surprised that a player who has played for York, Tranmere, Southport, Newport, Fleetwood and Preston hasn't got a game for us.

[Eeyore]

He played for Preston North End - who up until last season *were* in League 1, and last season were bottom half of the Championship - thus my comment.  Equally, reports suggest he would not have been 1st  choice at Celtic without proving himself - Duffy is a very decent CB for their standard (one of the better players in the PL for a bottom half team when he was at Brighton). and Jullien was a very decent CB in France.  And I'd argue Celtic, especially this season, would  be a relegation-standard PL team, or a top 6 Championship team

Preston's last season in League 1 was 14/15.

[MBL?]

There’s not too much to understand here really. Kabak out of them has played at a higher level, has a higher ceiling and is a bigger investment so he is the one who got the minutes. I know klopp has now confirmed it but he was never starting two new centre backs together, we all knew that. Davies was bought in case another one or two go down with injury.

Sounds harsh but I hope we don’t see him till pre season or if we have a dead rubber at the end of the league season. I’m in no way discounting his ability but there is no way you throw him in if the two back there are playing well with no injuries.

[Redcap]

I don't really see the problem here.

We were desperately short of cover at CB.

We brought in 2 CBs, one of whom is closer to having the attributes we need. The other potentially needs more work to get to where we need him to be, but should/will get there at some point.

He's behind a guy who's spent a lot more time training with Liverpool, and is therefore probably a little better aligned with how we play. He's also had some injuries.

If we have more CB injuries, he'll be asked to step in. In the absence of more injuries, he'll take as long as he needs to step in.

Next season we'll have VvD and Gomez back with us, as well as probably Matip and Kabak. To the extent that one of those is gone, or that Davies has improved, he might be 4th or 5th choice, which as we know from this season isn't a bad idea to have.

[AndyMuller]

He is the back up to the back ups, back ups.

[NarutoReds]

Support Davies. He is one of ours. I predict he is going to play in Champions League semi-final partnering Kabak due to injury (not broken legs) of Nathaniel Phillips against Bayern Munich.

[Ratboy3G]

Why are people surprised that a player who has played for York, Tranmere, Southport, Newport, Fleetwood and Preston hasn't got a game for us.

Who he has played for previously isn't really relevant (Robbo previously played for Queens Park and Dundee United but he gets a game). He was clearly brought in as back up as he was available at a low price due to his contract situation, but he also has the skill set to potentially come in and do the job once he is up to speed.
I doubt he will play many games if any this season, but expect he'll be on the bench for a fair few. If he shows he can get to grips with our style and is happy to be back up then I'm sure he'll still be here next season and if not, or we get suitable offer, then he'll be sold at a profit. We had limited funds in January, so it was a smart move.
While he is here we should all get behind him, as that is our job as supporters.

[Ratboy3G]

Preston's last season in League 1 was 14/15.

Good point 👍

[aw1991]

Preston's last season in League 1 was 14/15.

And they were 9th last season.

[Fromola]

Who he has played for previously isn't really relevant (Robbo previously played for Queens Park and Dundee United but he gets a game). He was clearly brought in as back up as he was available at a low price due to his contract situation, but he also has the skill set to potentially come in and do the job once he is up to speed.
I doubt he will play many games if any this season, but expect he'll be on the bench for a fair few. If he shows he can get to grips with our style and is happy to be back up then I'm sure he'll still be here next season and if not, or we get suitable offer, then he'll be sold at a profit. We had limited funds in January, so it was a smart move.
While he is here we should all get behind him, as that is our job as supporters.

He barely played in his first 5 or 6 months here himself. Klopp won't throw a new signing in if he doesn't feel they're ready.

[mrantarctica]

He barely played in his first 5 or 6 months here himself. Klopp won't throw a new signing in if he doesn't feel they're ready.

to be honest though Alberto Moreno was the incumbent and did actually play better than usual for the beginning of that season, so until his injury there wasn't any specific reason to bring Robbo in. Robbo also wasn't brilliant from his first game, certainly better than Moreno but far from the player we then saw some time later.

In this case, JK decided to go with Rhys Williams who, despite not being a new signing, has never looked ready. So I think the two comparisons are only superficially relevant.

[Ratboy3G]

to be honest though Alberto Moreno was the incumbent and did actually play better than usual for the beginning of that season, so until his injury there wasn't any specific reason to bring Robbo in. Robbo also wasn't brilliant from his first game, certainly better than Moreno but far from the player we then saw some time later.

In this case, JK decided to go with Rhys Williams who, despite not being a new signing, has never looked ready. So I think the two comparisons are only superficially relevant.

I get that, but my point was that who Davies played for earlier in his career isn't relevant just like it isn't really for Robbo or any other player.
Davies was brought in to be back up and Klopp has said a few times that he needs to be up to speed before he drops him in, which is how it should be.

[farawayred]

I think that the parallels drawn with Robbo's signing have hurt Davies' prospects quite a bit. No pressure, eh?...