Topic: Boxing thread

[WhoHe]

Brook was doing OK then bang. I thought he stopped it too soon but it would have ended the same way if it carried on.

[7777]

He definitely got Crawfords respect, switched up and hit Brook with a shot he didn’t see

Looking forward to Spence Garcia now, some good fights coming up

[rawcusk8]

No real complaints about the stoppage, Brook didn’t have much of a clue where he was at that point. It’s a shame as he was doing well but soon as Crawford turned on the pressure it was over. Fordy, hope you’re alright mate

[Clayton Bigsby]

Crawford is a proper switch hitter of the Hagler mode. Different level to the Ingles

[Lusty]

Stoppage looked a bit soft, but I bet if you looked into Brook's eyes there'd be no one home.

Man, just saw the end of that Franco-Maloney fight, disgusting to see how boxing robs fighters, not a single headbutt to the right eye, and they simply lie in order to either rob the fighter or save face for the referee, what is the point of replay if you can't see the obvious.

Good to see boxing's version of VAR is just as useless. What the fuck was Bob Arum doing getting involved? Don't think it went the way he wanted anyway, but no way he should be able to get involved.

[I've been a good boy]

Also thought the stoppage came too quick but the ref must've had Brook's eye in mind and stopped it early for his sake. Pretty much confirms that Brook is done at the top level. Maybe he can go back to fighting Latvian electricians twice a year at Sheffield Arena.

[Fiasco]

Also thought the stoppage came too quick but the ref must've had Brook's eye in mind and stopped it early for his sake. Pretty much confirms that Brook is done at the top level. Maybe he can go back to fighting Latvian electricians twice a year at Sheffield Arena.

His best win is against who, Shawn Porter? And that was pretty close. Kell is tough and loves a challenge but he's never been an elite fighter IMO. Very easy to say after the fact but every time he's stepped up he's done well to a degree but never quite been up to it.


Retirement now, surely? He could go up again in weight but to fight who?

[dikwad]

Moving up and down the weights hasn't done Kell's career any good but he was a world champion who's only lost to elite level guys so hopefully he'll have a good think about his future now.

[Fordy]

Kell was concerning Crawford at the start and it was always going to be interesting to see what happens when Crawford lands a decent punch.

Kell is finished and this is why I am shock Khan is running away from that fight.

As for Crawford he is a class act but needs to fight Spence now. That fight needs to be made if Spence beats Garcia.

[Welshred]

Doesn't matter how much Kell troubled Crawford Khan still last longer than him Fordy

[Lusty]

Really hard to judge Brook's career because you'll never know what would have happened had he not committed suicide against GGG. I thought Porter was a 147lb Mike Tyson at the time Brook beat him but time has put that win in perspective.

He's missing a top tier name on his CV and Porter is the only tier 2 name on there. From Porter down it's a long way to his next best name. No harm in losing to the names he has lost to, but he hasn't really beat anyone either.

[Legs]

As I said the other day he has one cashout fight left does Khan want it ?

Being honest it is a pointless fight now there is no world title on the line.

It is hard to judge Brook as all 3 defeats are to elite boxers id say he is a good boxer not a great one.

Crawford will beat Spence imo too.

[Samie]

While I thought the stoppage came a little early it was the right decision as Crawford would've stopped him within the next round or two.

Only fight left for Kell is Amir Khan and vice versa.

[7777]

Just like another Hatton Witter isn’t it. Should have fought but their ego’s won’t allow it

[1892tillforever]

Really hard to judge Brook's career because you'll never know what would have happened had he not committed suicide against GGG. I thought Porter was a 147lb Mike Tyson at the time Brook beat him but time has put that win in perspective.

He's missing a top tier name on his CV and Porter is the only tier 2 name on there. From Porter down it's a long way to his next best name. No harm in losing to the names he has lost to, but he hasn't really beat anyone either.

Perhaps, but he was 36 fights into his career at that stage. I doubt he would have fought many top WW contenders even if he remained in his lane so to speak. When looking at a career, you need to look at the top 5 wins at least, if not more, to gauge the quality of opposition. Looking at Brook's record, it is pretty bad. Something like:

Shawn Porter
Vyacheslav Senchenko
Lovemore Ndou (MILES past his peak)
Carson Jones
Frankie Gavin

That's pretty grim.

[Samie]

Fordy would  even make Kell's top 10 for fucks sake.

[Lusty]

Perhaps, but he was 36 fights into his career at that stage. I doubt he would have fought many top WW contenders even if he remained in his lane so to speak. When looking at a career, you need to look at the top 5 wins at least, if not more, to gauge the quality of opposition. Looking at Brook's record, it is pretty bad. Something like:

Shawn Porter
Vyacheslav Senchenko
Lovemore Ndou (MILES past his peak)
Carson Jones
Frankie Gavin

That's pretty grim.

Yeah it's not great when you look at it like that.

I suppose the real question we'll always have is; what would his career have looked like in a world where Amir Khan didn't exist? I think the JoJo Dan/Frankie Gavin phase of his career might look different because he was in a holding pattern waiting for that fight to come off. Then he only fought GGG to one up Khan when he took Canelo.

It's happened to too many British fighters, and I really hope we're not having this conversation about Callum Smith in a few years.

[arthur sarnoff]

Just like another Hatton Witter isn’t it. Should have fought but their ego’s won’t allow it

Some of the arguments on boxing forums I was on at that time were crazy about Hatton-Witter.  Put Fordy to shame.

[Samie]

Tyson Fury has abandoned plans to fight in London on 5 December. He says he's not going to return to the ring until 2021.

 https://bbc.in/38JLYO7

[Sammy5IsAlive]

Perhaps, but he was 36 fights into his career at that stage. I doubt he would have fought many top WW contenders even if he remained in his lane so to speak. When looking at a career, you need to look at the top 5 wins at least, if not more, to gauge the quality of opposition. Looking at Brook's record, it is pretty bad. Something like:

Shawn Porter
Vyacheslav Senchenko
Lovemore Ndou (MILES past his peak)
Carson Jones
Frankie Gavin

That's pretty grim.

I think that's a slightly harsh way of looking at it. For me up to 2014 he did what any boxer would do working up to a world title and took fights that he could win in a fairly straightforward manner whilst getting himself up the rankings. He then won the title against Porter who is and was a genuine world level fighter. That win was his 11th professional fight. If you skip forward a couple of years to 2016 to date, he's had 3 losses against elite fighters (one of whom he had no business being in with weightwise, one of whom he for me stayed competitive with till his eye went and the other maybe being the #1 pound for pound fighter in the world at the moment) with tune-up fights in between.

As was suggested above it is that 2014-16 period that makes his record seem so shallow. He was hanging on for the big money fight with Khan and dodging the banana skins. I think if that pot of gold hadn't been on the horizon he would have had a really good chance of defending his title against legitimate contenders that would have looked much better on his record.

As others have said above - it's a cautionary tale for Callum Smith.

As an aside is it still him and DeGale the last two British boxers to win world titles in the US?

[Alf]

Tyson Fury has abandoned plans to fight in London on 5 December. He says he's not going to return to the ring until 2021.

https://bbc.in/38JLYO7

I saw an interview with Frank Warren after the show on Friday and he said that Wilder’s team have taken them to court in the US to get the 3rd fight.

[1892tillforever]

I think that's a slightly harsh way of looking at it. For me up to 2014 he did what any boxer would do working up to a world title and took fights that he could win in a fairly straightforward manner whilst getting himself up the rankings. He then won the title against Porter who is and was a genuine world level fighter. That win was his 11th professional fight. If you skip forward a couple of years to 2016 to date, he's had 3 losses against elite fighters (one of whom he had no business being in with weightwise, one of whom he for me stayed competitive with till his eye went and the other maybe being the #1 pound for pound fighter in the world at the moment) with tune-up fights in between.

As was suggested above it is that 2014-16 period that makes his record seem so shallow. He was hanging on for the big money fight with Khan and dodging the banana skins. I think if that pot of gold hadn't been on the horizon he would have had a really good chance of defending his title against legitimate contenders that would have looked much better on his record.

As others have said above - it's a cautionary tale for Callum Smith.

As an aside is it still him and DeGale the last two British boxers to win world titles in the US?

You make some good points Sammy, but I don't think it is harsh. I feel that it is a solid way to analyse a boxer's career in what is an industry filled with padded records and other assorted nonsense.

Porter was Brook's 33rd professional fight! His 11th professional fight was against someone called Geraint Harvey who had a 3-26 record. Also, Brook fought someone called Ernie Smith three times in his first 10 fights for some reason. Smith was 11-80-3 first fight and 13-97-5 in the third fight.

His level of competition only went up towards the 20 fight mark, which is fairly standard to be honest. Porter is a good fighter no question, and it was a superb win for Brook. However, his only defences came against Jo Jo Dan, Gavin and Kevin Bizier. He had also been a professional fight for 10 years by the time he fought Porter. For me, there is no doubt that Brook took too long to make the step up as well as not taking on better quality fighters at that point. His career will go down as a 'what might have been' for me, because I think Brook WAS a very good fighter indeed.

I would have favoured him heavily against Khan, but his nemesis has had the better career in terms of who he has beaten IMO. Khan has beaten the following:

Marcos Maidana
Marco Antonio Barrera (The Ghost Of)
Andriy Kotelnik
Paulie Malignaggi
Devon Alexander
Paul McCloskey
Zab Judah (The Ghost Of)
Chris Algieri
Luis Collazo (The Ghost Of)

Not exactly a Hall of Fame resume but still, overall, a better level of competition than Kell.

[Samie]

Wilder has called out Whyte if he can't get the Fury fight...he won't. 

[Fordy]

Wilder has called out Whyte if he can't get the Fury fight...he won't. 

He won't what?

[Samie]

Get the Fury fight. So the Whyte fight is a pretty good backup.

[Lusty]

Wilder has called out Whyte if he can't get the Fury fight...he won't. 

He's also come up with a new excuse based around Fury's fingernails.

[Samie]

Sharp finger nails are a no-no mate. 

[I've been a good boy]

Wilder's next excuse will be that the lights were too bright and the ring ropes weren't the right colour.

[G a r y]

Callum Smith v Canelo, 19th December 

[Samie]

Canelo will have so many clauses inserted, Callum will come in looking like a Featherweight.

[duvva 💅]

Canelo will have so many clauses inserted, Callum will come in looking like a Featherweight.

Well he certainly won’t win without a KO, even if he wins every round

Still a good fight to look forward to

[Alf]

I wish Callum Smith all the best, he’ll need to knock Canelo out to get the win.

[Fordy]

Canelo will have so many clauses inserted, Callum will come in looking like a Featherweight.

Kebab time!!

Good fight this.Smith has been chasing the rainbow for years.

[AndyMuller]

Hope Smith does it. Looking forward to watching hopefully a good fight for once.

[Lusty]

Finally!  Was really worried this wasn't going to come off.

Will be the most competitive fight ginger has been in for years.

[G a r y]

It's a proper fight isn't it? Really looking forward to this one.

Shame no one can go

[Asam]

Canelo will have so many clauses inserted, Callum will come in looking like a Featherweight.

They have plenty of time to plan around that, Smith has always looked very impressive to me but this is a massive step up in class, usually the British fighters lack of defensive skill is what undoes the against the us fighters, he’s got a huge height and reach advantage and his power has always been good so it should be a fight he can win but then again I thought kovalev would smash Canelo

Smith should win this but he needs to push the boat out and find the absolute best team / game plan possible and not stick to his comfort zone

[Fiasco]

Smith was becoming a bit of a forgotten man, he's only fought about 6 times in the last 4 years and those years have been his peak. I'm happy he's got this fight, he got a few quid for the WBSS and he'll get a nice wedge here too.

Smith is a legit 6'3 and he'll have to use all of it to his advantage. He has power but Canelo's never been down from my recollection so it'll be interesting to see that play out. I thought Ryder beat Smith last year but you feel he wont be as sloppy for the biggest fight of his career. Canelo absolutely marmalized Rocky Fielding's ribs when they fought and Smith is of a similar height and stature, so look for Canelo to expose the room between Smith's guard and lower body because if he exploits that then Smith wont have a hope in hell. Smith's advantage with his height and reach could be his downfall if he doesn't adjust.

I make Canelo favourite, 70/30, but Smith is a live dog here and it should be an absolute cracker.

[G a r y]

Smith was becoming a bit of a forgotten man, he's only fought about 6 times in the last 4 years and those years have been his peak. I'm happy he's got this fight, he got a few quid for the WBSS and he'll get a nice wedge here too.

Smith is a legit 6'3 and he'll have to use all of it to his advantage. He has power but Canelo's never been down from my recollection so it'll be interesting to see that play out. I thought Ryder beat Smith last year but you feel he wont be as sloppy for the biggest fight of his career. Canelo absolutely marmalized Rocky Fielding's ribs when they fought and Smith is of a similar height and stature, so look for Canelo to expose the room between Smith's guard and lower body because if he exploits that then Smith wont have a hope in hell. Smith's advantage with his height and reach could be his downfall if he doesn't adjust.

I make Canelo favourite, 70/30, but Smith is a live dog here and it should be an absolute cracker.

Well summarised, my thoughts exactly.

[Lusty]

Smith was becoming a bit of a forgotten man, he's only fought about 6 times in the last 4 years and those years have been his peak. I'm happy he's got this fight, he got a few quid for the WBSS and he'll get a nice wedge here too.

Smith is a legit 6'3 and he'll have to use all of it to his advantage. He has power but Canelo's never been down from my recollection so it'll be interesting to see that play out. I thought Ryder beat Smith last year but you feel he wont be as sloppy for the biggest fight of his career. Canelo absolutely marmalized Rocky Fielding's ribs when they fought and Smith is of a similar height and stature, so look for Canelo to expose the room between Smith's guard and lower body because if he exploits that then Smith wont have a hope in hell. Smith's advantage with his height and reach could be his downfall if he doesn't adjust.

I make Canelo favourite, 70/30, but Smith is a live dog here and it should be an absolute cracker.

Yeah I agree, 70/30 is about right but a 30% chance is a solid one.  I don't think Canelo will completely go to town on Smith's ribcage the way he did with Rocky Fielding because he'll be a lot more respectful of what's coming back, but I agree that's the weakness. 

As we found out with Lomachenko the other week and Chocolatito a couple of years ago it doesn't matter how good you are if you keep going up through the weights you're going to come up against someone who's too big for you, and Callum might be that someone.