Topic: Labour Thread * No Gaza *

[Ray K]

Labour are *25* points ahead of the Tories in the latest YouGov poll.

And in even better news for Keir Starmer, Owen Jones has announced that he's leaving the Labour Party.

[Libertine]

Labour are *25* points ahead of the Tories in the latest YouGov poll.

And in even better news for Keir Starmer, Owen Jones has announced that he's leaving the Labour Party.

Great news on both counts.

Also, Tories fall below 20% in that poll and only 4 points ahead of Regret or Repulse or whatever they're called these days....

[PatriotScouser]

Labour are *25* points ahead of the Tories in the latest YouGov poll.

And in even better news for Keir Starmer, Owen Jones has announced that he's leaving the Labour Party.

He has? Fantastic news! Although he was so frequently attacking the front bench and Starmer (hopefully I don't annoy bigbonnedrawky by using his last name now ) that I thought he left ages ago!

[Circa1892]

It just reminds me of Starmer and it calls into question, who's propping him up.

Really?

[classycarra]

Really?

All I can think is thank fuck people like bigbonedrawky - with his conspiracy theory-infused bigotry, and his far-too-on-the-nose, horse-shoe theory-proving self-professed friendship with an elected BNP member - and others with very ugly fringe politics, are feeling like Labour don't look like they want them to these day

[bigbonedrawky]

I know he's a Red, saw him at the match.
He'd only be banned if he was high maintenance, a pain in the arse, dominated threads or disrupted this football site, etc.
Surely even you must think we're too low class for him now though?

Low class ! I'll have you know some of our posters drink wine, have their lunch at dinner time and dinner at tea time...

 

[Dr. Beaker]

Low class ! I'll have you know some of our posters drink wine, have their lunch at dinner time and dinner at tea time...

 

I have Balsamic vinegar on me fish and chips.

[Red-Soldier]

I have Balsamic vinegar on me fish and chips.

Nah.  Onion vinegar is the best 

[KillieRed]

Two people I have on ignore having a cat fight with each other in this thread. Makes it hard to follow.

Owen Jones column on why he cancelled his membership:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/mar/21/labour-party-cancelling-membership-policies

Apparently Gaza was the final straw. Which I have some sympathy with.

I’m very much in the wait & see camp with regards the next Labour government. I don’t hold out much hope of them doing much good though. I’m not sure there is much they CAN do to fix things, and the centre-right pandering makes me want to vomit.

[bigbonedrawky]

All I can think ...

The mirror has had his cage rattled and spoken with a word soup of nonsense  ...Go get some professional help.

Spoiler

BNP He's actualy a family member and he's risked his life and  served this country more than youll ever know or understand...End result =No BNP ..

Spoiler

I'll give you a clue fuck with him and Special Branch will be up your arse...,Bagged and gagged

[close]

  What have you ever done for this country ? Waste your life typing shite on here 

[close]

[Fromola]

Two people I have on ignore having a cat fight with each other in this thread. Makes it hard to follow.

Owen Jones column on why he cancelled his membership:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/mar/21/labour-party-cancelling-membership-policies

Apparently Gaza was the final straw. Which I have some sympathy with.

I’m very much in the wait & see camp with regards the next Labour government. I don’t hold out much hope of them doing much good though. I’m not sure there is much they CAN do to fix things, and the centre-right pandering makes me want to vomit.

The right of the party also left in their droves during the Corbyn years.

Labour traditionally 'a broad church' but the two factions are unworkable these days and have little in common anymore.

Really we should have PR and the party could split between the two.

[classycarra]

The mirror has had his cage rattled and spoken with a word soup of nonsense  ...Go get some professional help.

Spoiler

BNP He's actualy a family member and he's risked his life and  served this country more than youll ever know or understand...End result =No BNP ..

Spoiler

I'll give you a clue fuck with him and Special Branch will be up your arse...,Bagged and gagged

[close]

  What have you ever done for this country ? Waste your life typing shite on here 

[close]

"Word soup"? If ever there was a case of pot calling the kettle black!

Seems like you understood my point well enough anyway, and you can use your UKIP acquaintance as an example instead if you like.

Not saying plurality of acquaintances is a bad thing necessarily, so long as its nothing bigoted/illegal - my point was more that it's instructive that your inclusivity doesn't tend to extend to labour supporters (not to mention another group)

Owen Jones column on why he cancelled his membership:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/mar/21/labour-party-cancelling-membership-policies

Jones 'leaving the party' when it's so far ahead in the polls and on track to achieve what a democratic socialist party is supposed to do - get elected democratically, and govern - is (if you'll excuse computer-speak) very much 'a feature' of him and his ilk, not 'a bug'

[TepidT2O]

Owen Jones isn’t a bad person. But his job is to create clicks. And he does it very well.

For me, he epitomises the divide between what I call the self indulgent left, and the left that want power to enact change.

The self indulgence being that he (and others) are prepared to utterly ignore the voting public and enjoy the self indulgence of believing they are right, and that only they are right.   That being from a position of some affluence.

Mind you, I will also say that Owen Jones has suffered the most disgusting and abhorrent discrimination for being gay. Some find it hard to criticise his ideas alone sadly

[thaddeus]

Two people I have on ignore having a cat fight with each other in this thread. Makes it hard to follow.

Owen Jones column on why he cancelled his membership:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/mar/21/labour-party-cancelling-membership-policies

Apparently Gaza was the final straw. Which I have some sympathy with.

I’m very much in the wait & see camp with regards the next Labour government. I don’t hold out much hope of them doing much good though. I’m not sure there is much they CAN do to fix things, and the centre-right pandering makes me want to vomit.

As always he writes well but having read the article I'm still unclear on what he hopes to achieve.  His recommendation that people vote for Green or independents is not going to amount to anything in a FPTP system - the Greens are currently running at about 5% in the polls and any independent will live or die on having a popular issue locally.  If anything it might swing a few marginal seats to the Tories.

I'm very pleased that Jones didn't mention George Galloway but if people are quitting Labour over Gaza then I'd expect many of those will vote for his Workers Party of Britain over the Greens or independents.

I'm with him when he describes the wholly unappealing policies that Labour have so far outlined and that they seem to be becoming ever less appealing as the election gets closer.  I don't think there's a lot to differentiate Reeves from Hunt or Osborne.  My hope is that there's enough of a united voice within the Labour party from the left that they could influence policy similar to what the ERG/CRG did with Cameron's "One Nation" Tories (but inversely...).

Virtue signalling is itself a useful tool but Jones isn't going to be the figurehead of a national left movement.  The Lib Dems picked up a lot of "virtue signalling" voters in 2019 as the only anti-Brexit party - I was one of them - but it's amounted to absolutely nothing in terms of the ruling government's approach to Brexit.

[bigbonedrawky]

my point was more that it's instructive that your inclusivity doesn't tend to extend to labour supporters (not to mention another group)

By other group do you mean Labour councillors ?
Stop embarrassing yourself... You are blissfully unaware, that you know nothing.

[bigbonedrawky]

As always he writes well but having read the article I'm still unclear on what he hopes to achieve.  His recommendation that people vote for Green on independents is not going to amount to anything in a FPTP system - the Greens are currently running at about 5% in the polls and any independent will live or die on having a popular issue locally.  If anything it might swing a few marginal seats to the Tories.

I'm very pleased that Jones didn't mention George Galloway but if people are quitting Labour over Gaza then I'd expect many of those will vote for his Workers Party of Britain over the Greens or independents.

I'm with him when he describes the wholly unappealing policies that Labour have so far outlined and that they seem to be becoming ever less appealing as the election gets closer.  I don't think there's a lot to differentiate Reeves from Hunt or Osborne.  My hope is that there's enough of a united voice within the Labour party from the left that they could influence policy similar to what the ERG/CRG did with Cameron's "One Nation" Tories (but inversely...).

Virtue signalling is itself a useful tool but Jones isn't going to be the figurehead of a national left movement.  The Lib Dems picked up a lot of "virtue signalling" voters in 2019 as the only anti-Brexit party - I was one of them - but it's amounted to absolutely nothing in terms of the ruling government's approach to Brexit.

What jones is proposing will just split the Labour vote. Starmers stance on Gaza will do the same but rather than Galloway reaping the rewards it'll more likely lead to apathy and a no vote round our way and that'll mean I'll probably end up with Tory MP for the first time in my life...FFS

Never underestimate the power of the left to shoot itself in the foot.

[Fromola]

What jones is proposing will just split the Labour vote. Starmers stance on Gaza will do the same but rather than Galloway reaping the rewards it'll more likely lead to apathy and a no vote round our way and that'll mean I'll probably end up with Tory MP for the first time in my life...FFS

Never underestimate the power of the left to shoot itself in the foot.

It happened properly in 1981 when the SDP split Labour's vote to allow Thatcher to wreak havoc. Change UK tried to do it last time but it was a dud.

Labour have only won power since then under Blair and his majorities were that big that he didn't need the backing of the left. It'll be similar under Starmer.

Was it Mandelson who said the left have nowhere else to go, voting wise? Beyond wasted votes on a fringe party that still applies.

Labour will generally get 35-40% of the vote share in an election, give or take a few. Other than the last election (all the Brexit crap) the demographic of that vote is typically a lot wider and divergent than the usual Tory one.

[killer-heels]

If we have to wait until the manifesto to see Labour policy, then quite frankly its silly to have Labour politicians on shows being asked questions and being made to look silly. Case in point being Neil Coyle on Newsnight, couldnt really answer any question that Victoria Derbyshire put forward.

[bigbonedrawky]

It happened properly in 1981 when the SDP split Labour's vote to allow Thatcher to wreak havoc. Change UK tried to do it last time but it was a dud.

Labour have only won power since then under Blair and his majorities were that big that he didn't need the backing of the left. It'll be similar under Starmer.

Was it Mandelson who said the left have nowhere else to go, voting wise? Beyond wasted votes on a fringe party that still applies.

Labour will generally get 35-40% of the vote share in an election, give or take a few. Other than the last election (all the Brexit crap) the demographic of that vote is typically a lot wider and divergent than the usual Tory one.

Off topic a bit but is "Petie" Mandelson still in TLP ?
Always thought he was a wrong un... Him, Jeffery and Andy who'd of thunk it eh. 

[WhereAngelsPlay]

If we have to wait until the manifesto to see Labour policy, then quite frankly its silly to have Labour politicians on shows being asked questions and being made to look silly. Case in point being Neil Coyle on Newsnight, couldnt really answer any question that Victoria Derbyshire put forward.

That's on her, maybe she should've asked questions that he could answer. Labour would be fucking stupid to announce it now, all that'd happen is the Tory pricks would ad them to theirs.

[killer-heels]

That's on her, maybe she should've asked questions that he could answer. Labour would be fucking stupid to announce it now, all that'd happen is the Tory pricks would ad them to theirs.

But unless you have skilled attackers like Peter Kyle, then you end up looking clueless. In a debate about immigration and housing asylum seekers that Labour have volunteered to come on, being asked where Labour would house them is a sensible question.

[KillieRed]

Does Starmer really need to do shit like this?

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/mar/21/keir-starmer-calls-for-england-to-scrap-euros-kit-with-new-st-georges-cross-design-football

If asked directly just say it’s unimportant in the scheme of things. But instead he has to wade in.

They’re just taking the votes from people on the left for granted. I have a very bad feeling about him and his prospective government.

[Bcnsean]

Does Starmer really need to do shit like this?

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/mar/21/keir-starmer-calls-for-england-to-scrap-euros-kit-with-new-st-georges-cross-design-football

If asked directly just say it’s unimportant in the scheme of things. But instead he has to wade in.

They’re just taking the votes from people on the left for granted. I have a very bad feeling about him and his prospective government.

It's obviously unimportant in the grand scheme of things, but he's trying to win back seats in the red wall, and there'll be loads of little Englanders with their knickers in a twist about that. If he replied like you said he'd risk alienating voters in those swing seats.

[Lusty]

Does Starmer really need to do shit like this?

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/mar/21/keir-starmer-calls-for-england-to-scrap-euros-kit-with-new-st-georges-cross-design-football

If asked directly just say it’s unimportant in the scheme of things. But instead he has to wade in.

They’re just taking the votes from people on the left for granted. I have a very bad feeling about him and his prospective government.

I dream of a day when a politician can just say 'I really don't give a fuck mate, I'm a bit busy trying to run the country'.  But we are not there unfortunately.

[John C]

Does Starmer really need to do shit like this?

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/mar/21/keir-starmer-calls-for-england-to-scrap-euros-kit-with-new-st-georges-cross-design-football

If asked directly just say it’s unimportant in the scheme of things. But instead he has to wade in.

They’re just taking the votes from people on the left for granted. I have a very bad feeling about him and his prospective government.

Very respectively I ask is this post part of the hyperbole mate?
I actually entered the thread knowing there'd be a reaction.

Is the actual situation that .... the deed was done by Nike ...... lots of people in the media stamp their feet and go nuts ......Starmer was asked to comment ....... and without little effort of wasted time Starmer agrees it should be changed?
He could have said whose arsed.
He could have said its boss as it is.
He could have said anything but it doesn't matter what, by virtue that he commented it has become "Starmer calls for..."; "Starmer weighs in....".
He'll receive criticism from those who want to anyway.

[Red-Soldier]

I dream of a day when a politician can just say 'I really don't give a fuck mate, I'm a bit busy trying to run the country'.  But we are not there unfortunately.

I agree.

At least he said that the kit is way overpriced (which it is).

In the grand scheme of things..........

[Yorkykopite]

I dream of a day when a politician can just say 'I really don't give a fuck mate, I'm a bit busy trying to run the country'.  But we are not there unfortunately.

Me too.

I also prefer Labour leaders who know absolutely nothing about football. In fact that was Tony Benn's greatest achievement.

[oldfordie]

Does Starmer really need to do shit like this?

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/mar/21/keir-starmer-calls-for-england-to-scrap-euros-kit-with-new-st-georges-cross-design-football

If asked directly just say it’s unimportant in the scheme of things. But instead he has to wade in.

They’re just taking the votes from people on the left for granted. I have a very bad feeling about him and his prospective government.

Do shit like what exactly? is this being used to try and make it look as he's appealing to the Little Englanders?
He's talking about the England shirt, am not arsed myself but it is important not to piss voters off, it might piss off a few who react to a News headline wrote to deliberately wind them up but I would hope people would have worked this out by now, how many times has this happened over the last few months alone.?

[Yorkykopite]

Labour and sport....

I think it's in Dennis Skinner's memoirs. He tells Tony Benn during a Labour conference that he can't make a particular meeting because he'd like to see Ovett and Coe. Benn says "Are they your delegates?"

That's the way it should be.

[killer-heels]

Does Starmer really need to do shit like this?

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/mar/21/keir-starmer-calls-for-england-to-scrap-euros-kit-with-new-st-georges-cross-design-football

If asked directly just say it’s unimportant in the scheme of things. But instead he has to wade in.

They’re just taking the votes from people on the left for granted. I have a very bad feeling about him and his prospective government.

Dont think they should be pissing about messing with flags to be honest. I think its a fair answer by Starmer.

[Yorkykopite]

Dont think they should be pissing about messing with flags to be honest. I think its a fair answer by Starmer.

The question that might have made him squirm a bit would be...."Given the fact that there are now Muslims in the England squad, do you think it's appropriate that England has a crucifix on their shirt at all?"

[Father Ted]

Do shit like what exactly? is this being used to try and make it look as he's appealing to the Little Englanders?

He’s saying it in an interview with a Sun journo, filmed for Sun readers. Who else would he be trying to appeal to?

You’re a million miles ahead in the polls and the Tories are done. We’re well past the point where you can say stuff like this has to be done for electoral reasons. They just like doing it.

[upthereds1993]

Starmer calls for Superdry England shirt with sleeve zips in the shape of spitfires

[PaulF]

I agree.

At least he said that the kit is way overpriced (which it is).

In the grand scheme of things..........

Exactly,  I guess I don't know 'how' he said what he said. But he does have to be super media savvy as they will twist everything.
His comment about the price should be front and centre,maybe it was, but from the links here that's not how it was reported.
I'm not media savvy, could he have said something like. "The cost of shirts is outrageous, especially in this tory created cost of living crisis, and that is the kind of thing I am focussed on fixing.  I am sure some will welcome the change whilst others don't. But I'm interested in the bigger things that matter to people every day , like can parents afford school uniforms"

[oldfordie]

He’s saying it in an interview with a Sun journo, filmed for Sun readers. Who else would he be trying to appeal to?

You’re a million miles ahead in the polls and the Tories are done. We’re well past the point where you can say stuff like this has to be done for electoral reasons. They just like doing it.

Interesting point, am not arsed myself and I doubt it will stop people who already intend to vote Labour to not vote Labour, I don't believe anyone who says I was going to vote Labour but won't now because of this either but could it win over the gullible Sun readers, you might be right. they might well be stupid enough to let this be a reason to vote Labour.

[Paul JH]

I don't usually comment on Politics, and I've always voted Labour, always. But Starmer is a massive twat isn't he?

As someone who doesn't really follow politics as much as others, he comes across to me, a Labour voter all my life, as an opportunist, PM QT soundbite Gobshite. Really detest him. As snivelling and horrible as any Tory, but just dressed up in red.

So if I can feel like that, what does that say about the state of the country?? Sad times.

Interested to know people's opinions, those who like him, as to WHY they like him? Maybe I'm just becoming more cynical (and old!) and hate ALL politicians, but I just can't think he's anything but unlikeable.

[Lusty]

Me too.

I also prefer Labour leaders who know absolutely nothing about football. In fact that was Tony Benn's greatest achievement.

You weren't a fan of Tony Blair popping up on Football Focus back in the day to talk about Arjan de Zeeuw and Steed Malbranque?

[Yorkykopite]

You weren't a fan of Tony Blair popping up on Football Focus back in the day to talk about Arjan de Zeeuw and Steed Malbranque?

God, no. Nor Wilson going on and on about Huddersfield Town - especially when he got his facts wrong, as he does on the first page of his memoirs (Three times in a row, Harold, not twice)

[Yorkykopite]

I don't usually comment on Politics, and I've always voted Labour, always. But Starmer is a massive twat isn't he?

As someone who doesn't really follow politics as much as others, he comes across to me, a Labour voter all my life, as an opportunist, PM QT soundbite Gobshite. Really detest him. As snivelling and horrible as any Tory, but just dressed up in red.

So if I can feel like that, what does that say about the state of the country?? Sad times.

Interested to know people's opinions, those who like him, as to WHY they like him? Maybe I'm just becoming more cynical (and old!) and hate ALL politicians, but I just can't think he's anything but unlikeable.

That's quite a reaction! Visceral.

It might say more about you than the country though? Although if you're right and your hatred of ALL politicians is typical then the country is in a worse place than I imagined.

[Dr. Beaker]

What about Ted Heath trying to get the tory party conference to sing, "Bring on the cockneys by the score". I knew he was finished after that.