Author Topic: Labour Thread * No Gaza *  (Read 159312 times)

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« on: November 3, 2023, 11:01:58 am »
Don't get it locked.

What do you like about the things Labour is doing?

From the other thread, quite a few of the negative posts seemed to be about fringe groups whining about something unrelated to most of the stuff Labour are trying to do.

If you want a negative Labour thread then, by all means, please start one and keep that negativity in there.


For myself;

Having seen the way the UK is literally crumbling and people's rights are being taken away, it's going to be a big ask to see Labour reversing any of the shite that's happened since these fucking dickheads have been in power. What is the possibilty that Labour could look at criminal prosecutions against the Tories and some of those that have backed them.

It seems clear that a lot of money has been taken out of public coffers and redirected to scumbags.

Pretty much every single part of the UK is fucked. What can realistically be done and is it even possible that it can be fixed in one term of office? What things are the Tories and their pet media going to use as targets and what can Labour do to combat this?

Despite claims of Labour being Tory, there are many people from many walks of life, all around the country that can have things turned around by just reducing some of the damage.

What are the priorities and what are the positives we can see coming in, if Labour get elected?


*Please don't get this fucking thread locked as well. If you have to post shite. PLEASE start your own 'I want to post shite thread'. Thankee very much.







« Last Edit: March 10, 2024, 10:34:42 am by John C »
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline Sangria

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Re: NEW Labour Thread*
« Reply #1 on: November 3, 2023, 11:20:28 am »
I'd like to see a sober, competent government first. Once we've seen what that can do, we can reassess what's possible. At the moment, a government that answers questions truthfully and substantially is a pipedream, even though it's supposed to be the UK's pride and joy.
"i just dont think (Lucas is) that type of player that Kenny wants"
Vidocq, 20 January 2011

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: NEW Labour Thread*
« Reply #2 on: November 3, 2023, 11:23:30 am »
I'd like to see a sober, competent government first. Once we've seen what that can do, we can reassess what's possible. At the moment, a government that answers questions truthfully and substantially is a pipedream, even though it's supposed to be the UK's pride and joy.

Yeah seeing actual adults that are capable of some kind of basic thought process outside their own personal gain would be a major step forward.

If we could also have measured thinking, generousity and some kind of malice-free government then that would be amazing. Something that we've not seen for a decade.

The Tories just seem to have been on a personal joyride to destabalise the UK and to inject evil into every sphere.
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline Lusty

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Re: NEW Labour Thread*
« Reply #3 on: November 3, 2023, 11:26:07 am »
Said it before, but everything is so fucked that it's going to take a term in office just to unfuck it all and we need to be prepared for getting to the end of that term with very little meaningful change to show for it.  And maybe that's fine given the state we're in.

I don't think that the self imposed fiscal rules that they have put on themselves will help though.  And I don't think it will help if they keep on announcing big changes that they have to keep backtracking on.  There's a real concern that they end up being a 1 term government and the Tories can come back in and re-fuck everything after them.  We've seen how quickly the Tories have gone from a landslide victory to looking at a historic defeat.

Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: NEW Labour Thread*
« Reply #4 on: November 3, 2023, 11:26:09 am »
Starmer says a Labour king's speech would 'kick off a big build'

Quote
Labour issued an overnight preview of the Keir Starmer speech, and on the basis of what they are saying it is not going to contain any new policy. In line with what Starmer said in his conference speech, he is going to present Labour as the party for building. He will say:

    Britain needs this king’s speech to kick off a big build.

    We have to provide the businesses, communities and people of this nation, with the conditions to succeed. A fundamental deal, that we serve the country, while you drive it forward.

    The Tories can’t do this. Rishi Sunak is too weak to stand up to the blockers on his backbenchers. Too haunted by ghosts of Conservative imagination to see the country’s problems as you see them.

The king’s speech is on Tuesday. It is part of the state opening of parliament (the start of the new parliamentary session) and in the speech the king lists the government bills due to be passed in the next 12 months. In theory it is a moment for the government to show that it still has ideas, ambition, and a bit of oomph, although it does not always work out like that.

Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: NEW Labour Thread*
« Reply #5 on: November 3, 2023, 11:27:29 am »
Start your own thread mate. I can start it for you. Two secs. Then delete this and put it in there.

https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=355082.msg19142369#msg19142369

There you go mate. Wank-festa away :)

This is data from Savanta mate.  What's your issue with it?  It aint gonna magic away, just cause you don't like it.

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Re: NEW Labour Thread*
« Reply #6 on: November 3, 2023, 11:29:45 am »
Is this a new, Labour thread, or a New Labour thread?

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: NEW Labour Thread*
« Reply #7 on: November 3, 2023, 11:29:53 am »
This is data from Savanta mate.  What's your issue with it?  It aint gonna magic away, just cause you don't like it.

This thread is for positive things you hope to see from Labour getting into power and the changes they are making.

Your and others anti-Labour agenda can be discussed in the anti-Labour thread.

If you keep fucking about, then this will just get locked as well, which I guess is what you are after?

I even created an anti-Labour thread just for you. Post here: https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=355082.msg19142369#msg19142369
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: NEW Labour Thread*
« Reply #8 on: November 3, 2023, 11:32:37 am »
This thread is for positive things you hope to see from Labour getting into power and the changes they are making.

Your and others anti-Labour agenda can be discussed in the anti-Labour thread.

If you keep fucking about, then this will just get locked as well, which I guess is what you are after?

I even created an anti-Labour thread just for you. Post here: https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=355082.msg19142369#msg19142369

You sound like Truss and her "anti growth coalition"  ;D

« Last Edit: November 3, 2023, 11:34:31 am by Red-Soldier »

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: NEW Labour Thread*
« Reply #9 on: November 3, 2023, 11:37:23 am »
You sound like Truss and her "anti growth coalition"  ;D

Right. Ok. But you and I and others will never agree on anything and we'll get this thread locked again.

Your endless anti (Non Corbyn) Labour agenda will just repeat and repeat and repeat. What's the fucking point? We get it. Where are these Labour councillers objecting to this stance, when there are other ongoing atrocities. Palestine is an obsession with some Socialists and that's fine. But other things have happened, are happening and will happen where nothing is said. We can talk about all this endlessly, but it doesn't help people not able to live under a roof, or get their shopping in, or getting a bus to where they need to work or getting health care or mental health care?

Just for fucking once, I wanted to create a thread where we can talk about the fucking positives for a change. I even created a fucking negative thread just for you to be negative in.

Don't get this thread locked as well. I'm not interested in your agenda. I'm interested in seeing what positives that Labour can bring to the country and the people of this country. It's not fucking rocket science.
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline Kenny's Jacket

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Re: NEW Labour Thread*
« Reply #10 on: November 3, 2023, 11:50:49 am »
I like Labours policy on Private schools.

I think Labours policy on Asylum seekers is decent, but could be better.

The end

 :wave
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: NEW Labour Thread*
« Reply #11 on: November 3, 2023, 11:52:05 am »


Fine.

You can dismiss it and pretend it's not happening, but, this looks like it could be Starmers biggest issue, from now, to the next election.

Politics is about overcoming challenges.

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: NEW Labour Thread*
« Reply #12 on: November 3, 2023, 12:03:41 pm »
Fine.

You can dismiss it and pretend it's not happening, but, this looks like it could be Starmers biggest issue, from now, to the next election.

Politics is about overcoming challenges.

I'm not dismissing anything. I said if you want to talk about stuff like that then that's your right. Start your own thread.

This is the positive Labour thread where we can talk about some hope for the future.

If you want to be negative, start your own thread. Is this not clear?

There are a ton of ways that Labour and the politicians that make up Labour and the support groups and the people involved can improve this country from where it is now.

I don't understand how you aren't getting what this thread is about? You and others just snipe and snipe and snipe and we get it. You hate Labour. You hate Starmer. You love Corbyn. You want a Socialist utopia.

And that's fine. No worries. Create your own thread and discuss that there. This one is for the real world and for what they can do now to improve the UK and improve the lives of those that live here.

If I wanted to read negative shite every day, I'd re-friend those I've binned off in SM and get onto some of the wackier websites. But that's not why I created this thread. This is just one for hope and talking about stuff they can do and have done.
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline reddebs

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Re: NEW Labour Thread*
« Reply #13 on: November 3, 2023, 12:04:24 pm »
I've no idea if it's a viable way of doing things but I'd like to see bottom up policies rather than top down ones.

So for example the housing crisis.  Instead of MPs standing outside Downing Street proudly declaring they're investing X amount of millions/billions of £s to developers who then syphon off their backhanders first I'd like to see someone from say, Shelter announcing they've already received X amount to find suitable properties for the homeless plus funding all the appropriate support mechanisms they'll need to help them back on their feet.

Help those at the bottom directly, not through agencies, corporations etc that cream off the top.

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: NEW Labour Thread*
« Reply #14 on: November 3, 2023, 12:07:10 pm »
I've no idea if it's a viable way of doing things but I'd like to see bottom up policies rather than top down ones.

So for example the housing crisis.  Instead of MPs standing outside Downing Street proudly declaring they're investing X amount of millions/billions of £s to developers who then syphon off their backhanders first I'd like to see someone from say, Shelter announcing they've already received X amount to find suitable properties for the homeless plus funding all the appropriate support mechanisms they'll need to help them back on their feet.

Help those at the bottom directly, not through agencies, corporations etc that cream off the top.

Yeah agree with that and policies like that have been shown to work.

If you help those at the bottom then that stimulates the economy, because those that have nothing spend all their money on services and stuff that bring money into businesses that then spend money on providing those services and businesses.

The 'trickle-down' economy always seems to have been a massive con that serves no one but the already very rich - a key part of the Tory ideal. If you give a millionaire £10,000 then it'll just go offshore or into the bank. The economy sees none of it. If you give £10,000 to a struggling family then it goes straight into the economy.
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline Kenny's Jacket

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Re: NEW Labour Thread*
« Reply #15 on: November 3, 2023, 12:10:22 pm »
Andy see what you are trying to do with 2 threads, good luck you will need it


I don't understand how you aren't getting what this thread is about? You and others just snipe and snipe and snipe and we get it. You hate Labour. You hate Starmer. You love Corbyn. You want a Socialist utopia.


This comment is an example of why, its a load of shite mate  :-*



As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline Sangria

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Re: NEW Labour Thread*
« Reply #16 on: November 3, 2023, 12:10:45 pm »
I've no idea if it's a viable way of doing things but I'd like to see bottom up policies rather than top down ones.

So for example the housing crisis.  Instead of MPs standing outside Downing Street proudly declaring they're investing X amount of millions/billions of £s to developers who then syphon off their backhanders first I'd like to see someone from say, Shelter announcing they've already received X amount to find suitable properties for the homeless plus funding all the appropriate support mechanisms they'll need to help them back on their feet.

Help those at the bottom directly, not through agencies, corporations etc that cream off the top.

Do you think that YIMBYs might exist? Or does planning need to be imposed from the top?
"i just dont think (Lucas is) that type of player that Kenny wants"
Vidocq, 20 January 2011

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: NEW Labour Thread*
« Reply #17 on: November 3, 2023, 12:11:52 pm »
I've no idea if it's a viable way of doing things but I'd like to see bottom up policies rather than top down ones.

So for example the housing crisis.  Instead of MPs standing outside Downing Street proudly declaring they're investing X amount of millions/billions of £s to developers who then syphon off their backhanders first I'd like to see someone from say, Shelter announcing they've already received X amount to find suitable properties for the homeless plus funding all the appropriate support mechanisms they'll need to help them back on their feet.

Help those at the bottom directly, not through agencies, corporations etc that cream off the top.

Essentially, politicians are followers.  Most of the modern, progressive ideas, come from groups/people, outside of the main parties.

There's a lot of bottom up control happening at the moment, loads of community groups etc.

Offline Nobby Reserve

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Re: NEW Labour Thread*
« Reply #18 on: November 3, 2023, 12:12:06 pm »
Is this a new, Labour thread, or a New Labour thread?


It's Andy's Special Labour Thread, where only unicorns and rainbows are allowed  ;D


(only kidding!)


A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

Offline JP!

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Re: NEW Labour Thread*
« Reply #19 on: November 3, 2023, 12:12:32 pm »
New Labour, New Posters.
I don't agree, he'd go to Legoland. Bye.

Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: NEW Labour Thread*
« Reply #20 on: November 3, 2023, 12:14:19 pm »
Andy see what you are trying to do with 2 threads, good luck you will need it

This comment is an example of why, its a load of shite mate  :-*

Self awareness is not his strong point  ;)

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: NEW Labour Thread*
« Reply #21 on: November 3, 2023, 12:14:49 pm »
Andy see what you are trying to do with 2 threads, good luck you will need it

This comment is an example of why, its a load of shite mate  :-*





So. Make it a good thread for a change. Make it positive and full of hope and stuff that's been done right for once instead on concentrating on the stuff that hasn't done right.

We've got the Daily Fail, The Express, The Times, GBNews and 1,001 other sources for sticking the boot into Labour. It's all a bit fucking boring now seeing people that should be opposing the Daily Fail agreeing with them all the time.

I can't see why having a positive thread for once isn't a good idea. It's a piece of piss being negative all the time. This world seems engineered for that. Let's have a bit of hope and sunshine for once :)
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: NEW Labour Thread*
« Reply #22 on: November 3, 2023, 12:15:43 pm »

It's Andy's Special Labour Thread, where only unicorns and rainbows are allowed  ;D


(only kidding!)




Honestly mate a Labour Rainbow Unicorn Thread would be great right now :)
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline Nobby Reserve

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Re: NEW Labour Thread*
« Reply #23 on: November 3, 2023, 12:19:58 pm »
So. Make it a good thread for a change. Make it positive and full of hope and stuff that's been done right for once instead on concentrating on the stuff that hasn't done right.

We've got the Daily Fail, The Express, The Times, GBNews and 1,001 other sources for sticking the boot into Labour. It's all a bit fucking boring now seeing people that should be opposing the Daily Fail agreeing with them all the time.

I can't see why having a positive thread for once isn't a good idea. It's a piece of piss being negative all the time. This world seems engineered for that. Let's have a bit of hope and sunshine for once :)


Almost all the policies/issues to address/aims that are the most important to me will not be followed by the next Labour Govt, so it's difficult to come with areas of agreement. Similarly, I find it difficult to support policies that I know will make just cosmetic changes/improvements to my/others' lives.

But I want to discuss politics. And Labour will almost certainly form the next Govt.





A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: NEW Labour Thread* Full of Unicorns and Sunshine and Rainbows :)
« Reply #24 on: November 3, 2023, 12:21:24 pm »
One positive I'd like to post is my local MP Maria Eagle.

I have asked her several questions over the years and asked her about her stance and she always writes back quickly and with not just stock answers.

Not sure how many others query their MP, but she is brilliant. Comes across as a really intelligent and caring person and has been an MP since 1997 (And invovled with the Labour Party since 1983.

There are loads of really impressive Labour MPs out there and in contrast to some of the other parties, there is a lot of talent for a new Government to turn to  I think.
« Last Edit: November 3, 2023, 12:25:56 pm by Andy @ Allerton! »
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

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Re: NEW Labour Thread*
« Reply #25 on: November 3, 2023, 12:22:44 pm »
but it doesn't help people not able to live under a roof, or get their shopping in, or getting a bus to where they need to work or getting health care or mental health care?


In the spirit of the thread - and a genuine question - how do you think Labour's policies will improve each of those?

A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: NEW Labour Thread* Full of Unicorns and Sunshine and Rainbows :)
« Reply #26 on: November 3, 2023, 12:23:09 pm »

Almost all the policies/issues to address/aims that are the most important to me will not be followed by the next Labour Govt, so it's difficult to come with areas of agreement. Similarly, I find it difficult to support policies that I know will make just cosmetic changes/improvements to my/others' lives.

But I want to discuss politics. And Labour will almost certainly form the next Govt.







If Labour for instance help families get food on the table or pay their rent or bills or get them healthcare then why wouldn't you agree with steps like that?

It might not affect you, I know that 99% of anything Labour do (Or the Tories do for that matter) won't affect me in the slightest, but that doesn't mean I don't want those the worst off being given a hand up that ladder mate.
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline reddebs

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Re: NEW Labour Thread*
« Reply #27 on: November 3, 2023, 12:24:30 pm »
Do you think that YIMBYs might exist? Or does planning need to be imposed from the top?

I've no idea what yimbys are mate or what you mean about planning?

I'm not talking about building necessarily but making use of existing properties sitting empty. 

Offline Kenny's Jacket

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Re: NEW Labour Thread*
« Reply #28 on: November 3, 2023, 12:24:57 pm »
So. Make it a good thread for a change. Make it positive and full of hope and stuff that's been done right for once instead on concentrating on the stuff that hasn't done right.

We've got the Daily Fail, The Express, The Times, GBNews and 1,001 other sources for sticking the boot into Labour. It's all a bit fucking boring now seeing people that should be opposing the Daily Fail agreeing with them all the time.

I can't see why having a positive thread for once isn't a good idea. It's a piece of piss being negative all the time. This world seems engineered for that. Let's have a bit of hope and sunshine for once :)

Andy mate, youve just projected your own prejudice, to criticise fellow RAWKites, I guess in the hope that those not enamoured by KS will not respond,

The very basis of a discussion forum is that people will challange opinions.
 

If you dont want people to challange posts dontr be so inflamatory

Regardsing this point

Quote
We've got the Daily Fail, The Express, The Times, GBNews and 1,001 other sources for sticking the boot into Labour. It's all a bit fucking boring now seeing people that should be opposing the Daily Fail agreeing with them all the time.

Those who are now full for praise for Labour, were constantly stickoing the boot in 5 years ago. so what you want is
Andy likes the Party now, so keep your criticisms to another thread.

Like I said good luck mate


As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: NEW Labour Thread* Full of Unicorns and Sunshine and Rainbows :)
« Reply #29 on: November 3, 2023, 12:25:19 pm »

In the spirit of the thread - and a genuine question - how do you think Labour's policies will improve each of those?




This thread is to discuss the things Labour have done rather than what they might do. Conjecture is certainly something we can engage in, but there are plenty of good things that Labour could do if they are in power.

Are there any actual policies in place yet? Don't they tend to appear as an election appears? There might be words about, but are they policies until they are placed into a manifesto?
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: NEW Labour Thread* Full of Unicorns and Sunshine and Rainbows :)
« Reply #30 on: November 3, 2023, 12:27:44 pm »
Andy mate, youve just projected your own prejudice, to criticise fellow RAWKites, I guess in the hope that those not enamoured by KS will not respond,

The very basis of a discussion forum is that people will challange opinions.
 

If you dont want people to challange posts dontr be so inflamatory

Regardsing this point

Those who are now full for praise for Labour, were constantly stickoing the boot in 5 years ago. so what you want is
Andy likes the Party now, so keep your criticisms to another thread.

Like I said good luck mate





You wouldn't be the first person to accuse me of being against 'the past regime' - you can also go back in time and read what I said about the person back then and you are also free to come back here and apologise like all the others have.

But this thread isn't to open old wounds or go over new ground. It's just a simple thread for the positives for a change. What's wrong with that idea?
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline reddebs

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Re: NEW Labour Thread*
« Reply #31 on: November 3, 2023, 12:30:36 pm »
Yeah agree with that and policies like that have been shown to work.

If you help those at the bottom then that stimulates the economy, because those that have nothing spend all their money on services and stuff that bring money into businesses that then spend money on providing those services and businesses.

The 'trickle-down' economy always seems to have been a massive con that serves no one but the already very rich - a key part of the Tory ideal. If you give a millionaire £10,000 then it'll just go offshore or into the bank. The economy sees none of it. If you give £10,000 to a struggling family then it goes straight into the economy.

Damn right mate.

There was an ad on the TV last night about donating to the Trussell Trust to help foodbanks.  It was the usual sad music, talking about the cost of living crisis and hard times.

My hubby piped up with "you've just been telling us how hard up everyone is, then ask us fof money" and as I pointed out to him, it's usually those with the least to give that willingly hand over their last penny rather than the wealthy coughing up.

Offline Sangria

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Re: NEW Labour Thread*
« Reply #32 on: November 3, 2023, 12:31:48 pm »
I've no idea what yimbys are mate or what you mean about planning?

I'm not talking about building necessarily but making use of existing properties sitting empty.

NIMBY = Not In My Back Yard
YIMBY = Yes In My Back Yard

Is there any chance there might be local councils/governing bodies who might say that they can support development of such and such a size and such and such a type? I don't count councils selling off land to developers for money, but councils saying that they could support a certain level of additional development in their area.
"i just dont think (Lucas is) that type of player that Kenny wants"
Vidocq, 20 January 2011

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

Offline Nobby Reserve

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Re: NEW Labour Thread* Full of Unicorns and Sunshine and Rainbows :)
« Reply #33 on: November 3, 2023, 12:32:27 pm »
If Labour for instance help families get food on the table or pay their rent or bills or get them healthcare then why wouldn't you agree with steps like that?

It might not affect you, I know that 99% of anything Labour do (Or the Tories do for that matter) won't affect me in the slightest, but that doesn't mean I don't want those the worst off being given a hand up that ladder mate.


But how do you think Labour will "help families get food on the table or pay their rent or bills or get them healthcare"?

It's all well and good making the assumption that Labour will be better than the Tories. They will, I have no doubt about that. But it's a fucking low bar. And my perennial fear is that Labour (like New Labour) will tinker around the fringes without addressing the fundamental problems that cause people's lives to be shitty.

Better, but only marginally better.

It's like if 5 blokes are repeatedly kicking you in the bollocks. If offered a change to one bloke periodically punching you in the stomach, you'd take it because that would be 'better'. But you're still getting hurt.

To me, you and others are essentially saying "I support getting periodically punched in the stomach because, after all, it's better than being repeatedly kicked in the bollocks".

Whereas I prefer to to say "I'm not going to accept either getting kicked in the bollocks or punched in the stomach"

« Last Edit: November 3, 2023, 12:34:32 pm by Nobby Reserve »
A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

Offline filopastry

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Re: NEW Labour Thread* Full of Unicorns and Sunshine and Rainbows :)
« Reply #34 on: November 3, 2023, 12:34:09 pm »
I just want to see some sanity back in govt and an actual plan to deliver SOMETHING, after the immense amount of drift this country has had since the Tories came into power.

Honestly if they can actually overcome the obstructionism which is rife in this country and build more houses and infrastructure it would be a great start. A lot of issues in the NHS are driven by underinvestment in beds and equipment and resulting inefficiencies rather than just needing more staffing.

Offline Kenny's Jacket

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Re: NEW Labour Thread* Full of Unicorns and Sunshine and Rainbows :)
« Reply #35 on: November 3, 2023, 12:34:40 pm »



But this thread isn't to open old wounds or go over new ground. It's just a simple thread for the positives for a change. What's wrong with that idea?

Quote
You wouldn't be the first person to accuse me of being against 'the past regime' - you can also go back in time and read what I said about the person back theI n and you are also free to come back here and apologise like all the others have.

If I wanted to be argumentative I would ask you top point to where I have made such an accusation against you
As for an apology, Im not gping to ask for one

In the words of your favourite drummer,
Peace and Love
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline thaddeus

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Re: NEW Labour Thread*
« Reply #36 on: November 3, 2023, 12:42:20 pm »
I'd like to see a sober, competent government first. Once we've seen what that can do, we can reassess what's possible. At the moment, a government that answers questions truthfully and substantially is a pipedream, even though it's supposed to be the UK's pride and joy.
It's amazing how far the bar was lowered by Johnson in terms of integrity and Truss in terms of competence.  Arguably Sunak/Hunt are sober and competent individuals - albeit with very different ideals to mine - as were Cameron/Osborne.

Labour need to target their tax income to focus on those that have benefitted the most from the past 13 years (and, in my view, a lot longer).  Horded wealth whilst working people, never mind those unable to work, struggle to feed themselves should be lighting a fire in the belly of every Labour MP.

Labour need to readdress the imbalance between private and public for health and education.

Labour need to undo many of the policies enacted by the Tories that reduce protections for ordinary people and that lowered our standing in the world.

I'd like many things which are more radical than that and I only consider myself centre-left.  If a majority Labour government can't or won't do at least that then the only purpose they serve is to protect us from the even shittier Tories.  A noble cause but it's not going to inspire in the long-term and people will soon forget how dreadful the Tories were.

(That wasn't meant to be a rant aimed at you, Sangria)

Offline Nobby Reserve

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Re: NEW Labour Thread* Full of Unicorns and Sunshine and Rainbows :)
« Reply #37 on: November 3, 2023, 12:56:55 pm »
Honestly if they can actually overcome the obstructionism which is rife in this country and build more houses and infrastructure it would be a great start.


Just on this point, I don't think 'obstructionism' is as much of a problem as you make out.

The problem with the house building aspect is that policy is far too in thrall to the demands of the major house builders.

They only want to build in large/huge housing estates where they can be on for months/years and deliver economies of scale to maximise their profits. And they press for greenfield sites as they don't have to do anything like as much remedial work and can also sell for a premium price.

Then there's the 'land banking', where they hold onto parcels of land with planning permission for a number of years so they can control supply in order to ensure there's always an excess of demand over supply, thus keeping prices inflated and not having to discount to shift unsold houses.

The vast majority of 'brownfield' sites are relatively small (up to 50 dwellings size) that the major house builders aren't interested in (but in some cases own, in order to prevent other - smaller - builders developing them).

What we often see now is a village of, say, 500 homes having a housing estate of another 200 homes built on its edge on formerly agricultural land. It destroys the character of the village, depreciates the environment, and breaks local infrastructure/services. If ten local villages had 20 extra houses built, it would be far better and much more sustainable and absorbable.

But the major house builders don't want that.

I can understand the Tories kowtowing to the big house building corporates. These huge companies and their owners/major shareholders/executives have been consistent donors to the Tory Party for decades - and we all know how the Tories love the 'he who pays the piper' ethos.

But quite why Labour are so subservient to these corporates is beyond me.


My own preference would be for Labour to embark on a massive programme of social housing using the old council housing model (not housing associations, which although nominally not-for-profit, are a cashcow for their owners in the form of huge salary 'packages'). A minimum of 250k a year (ideally closer to 500k). And rent them out on a not-for-profit basis.

This would subvert the private rental market, bringing down private rental prices. Especially if accompanied by a new 'bill of rights' for renters (including a ban on non-fault evictions, and strict price rise controls) and punitive taxation on large landlords that own, say, more than 10 or 20 properties. That in turn would lead to a moderate and relatively gradual correction in house prices full stop.

i say this as a home owner (but one who recognises that the housing market in this country is fucked, particularly for new buyers)
A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

Offline filopastry

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Re: NEW Labour Thread* Full of Unicorns and Sunshine and Rainbows :)
« Reply #38 on: November 3, 2023, 12:59:11 pm »
In terms of obstructionism, its a massive problem locally where I live, in the local elections its pretty much the only issue the Tories campaigned on "Stop overdeveloping our suburbs!", and to be honest it helped their vote hold up better than you would think in the current circumstances.

Every new development gets opposition

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Re: NEW Labour Thread* Full of Unicorns and Sunshine and Rainbows :)
« Reply #39 on: November 3, 2023, 01:05:31 pm »
In terms of obstructionism, its a massive problem locally where I live, in the local elections its pretty much the only issue the Tories campaigned on "Stop overdeveloping our suburbs!", and to be honest it helped their vote hold up better than you would think in the current circumstances.

Every new development gets opposition


Cause most of them are poorly thought out and hardly any consist of social/affordable housing.