Topic: Arsenal

[SwordInYourGut]

How many trophies have Liverpool won under FSG? You think FSG give a shit about winning the league? FSG will invest little again in the summer and lose out in signing the better quality players and end up with 2nd tier players. I don't see FSG going all out to win the league.

I can assure you this Liverpool team under Klopp will not lose 10-2 to anybody in the CL next year.

[Xabi Gerrard]

How many trophies have Liverpool won under FSG? You think FSG give a shit about winning the league? FSG will invest little again in the summer and lose out in signing the better quality players and end up with 2nd tier players. I don't see FSG going all out to win the league.

Well that remains to be seen, but yes, our biggest fear is that FSG see the Arsenal model as the ideal way to run a club. To be fair to FSG they have overseen a proper title challenge and a European final since they took over, which hopefully is a sign of more ambition than Arsenal who haven't managed to get close to either in the same period.

We'll know for sure whether we're in the same boat as you if we stop progressing and stagnate at a level below where we want to be. For now though we're clearly progressing under Klopp so lets see how far we can get before we plateau. We'll worry about doing an Arsenal then.

[SwordInYourGut]

Arsenal fans who want Wenger out need to think about the clueless morons that'll be running the club if that happens. People who haven't made a footballing decision in their lives. Yours is not a structure where a new manager can just be parachuted in. Wenger needs to be phased out by bifurcating responsibilities.

[Dim Glas]

How many trophies have Liverpool won under FSG? You think FSG give a shit about winning the league? FSG will invest little again in the summer and lose out in signing the better quality players and end up with 2nd tier players. I don't see FSG going all out to win the league.

yep, we have issues too for sure. And goodness knos I'm sure whichever Arsenal forum you are on love to have agood laugh at Liverpool too.

But the difference is, if Liverpool's manager was available, there wouldn't be a single Arsenal fan that wouldn't walk over broken glass to get him to their club to replace Wenger.

[Cliff Bastin]

The 4th place trophy thing is ironic , everyone who laughed at us for celebrating 4th is now counting the number of points needed to get 4th place, as if it was a title run in, and looking at other teams fixtures, you really would think there's a trophy at the end of it.

Which is the sign of decline and lack of ambition to actually win the league. Wenger started that nonsense and many others now believe it. It ultimately means nothing substantial, wrapping paper over a potato so to speak. Chelsea and Abramovich aim to win the league all the time and anything less is seen as failure.

[The North Bank]

I do think it's a bit rich to talk about bottle if you're a Liverpool fan, given the number of finals/close title/4th place run ins that they keep imploding in. At least our bottlers have gotten over the line a couple of times.
Liverpool are heading in the right direction though, we are going the wrong way, but heading in the right direction isn't a trophy either.

[The North Bank]

Which is the sign of decline and lack of ambition to actually win the league. Wenger started that nonsense and many others now believe it. It ultimately means nothing substantial, wrapping paper over a potato so to speak. Chelsea and Abramovich aim to win the league all the time and anything less is seen as failure.

He didn't start it, it's dictated by money, CL, and TV, he just admitted it before anyone else. Imagine if people only cared about the title race, sky ratings would get destroyed. It's part of selling the premier league.

[ScottishGoon]

Look at you lot getting all defiant! 

Every team wants top 4, the difference with Arsenal is that that's the goal. For the rest of us getting top 4 is a stepping stone to the goal, it means two things;

1) Doing something in Europe

and

2) Attracting better players so we can challenge for the big trophies.

For Arsenal though those things dont seem to matter, it's as if finishing 2-4th in itself is enough. That's why everyone laughs at you and the 4th place trophy.

But that's not the goal though, otherwise everyone would have been happy with what we were achieving and it's obvious that's not the case. And it's not just because we are missing out on top 4 this season.

10 years ago top 4 was a necessity as part of the business model, it was our minimum target each year, to help ease the burden of the stadium debt. Thats where the trophy comment stemmed from. We didn't like it but we understood it. Now that's not the case, we want more. We want to win trophies, we want to be challenging for the big prizes and this is where the unrest comes from.

[jillcwhomever]

Which is the sign of decline and lack of ambition to actually win the league. Wenger started that nonsense and many others now believe it. It ultimately means nothing substantial, wrapping paper over a potato so to speak. Chelsea and Abramovich aim to win the league all the time and anything less is seen as failure.

Love the fact you use them as an example. The fact is if you don't have the money the Abramovich's have, any long term success is going to take longer to achieve. I am prepared to take the longer route for now, its not a lack of ambition but its about giving Klopp's method a chance to succeed. For a club who've has been out of Europe for a long time, should we make it, it is merely the first step. From then on we can build our squad, which at the moment is waver thin. Once we get the team sorted then we set our minds on challenging for titles and other trophies. But this idea that in today's football you can do it at the drop of a hat is bollocks. If it was that easy different teams would be achieving it year after year, and surprise, surprise they're not. 

[The North Bank]

Love the fact you use them as an example. The fact is if you don't have the money the Abramovich's have, any long term success is going to take longer to achieve. I am prepared to take the longer route for now, its not a lack of ambition but its about giving Klopp's method a chance to succeed. For a club who've has been out of Europe for a long time, should we make it, it is merely the first step. From then on we can build our squad, which at the moment is waver thin. Once we get the team sorted then we set our minds on challenging for titles and other trophies. But this idea that in today's football you can do it at the drop of a hat is bollocks. If it was that easy different teams would be achieving it year after year, and surprise, surprise they're not.

It is a big problem, taking that last step in the face of competition with limitless resources both home and abroad.
I do expect total effort from the players though. What we saw at Palace was embarrassing.

[jillcwhomever]

It is a big problem, taking that last step in the face of competition with limitless resources both home and abroad.
I do expect total effort from the players though. What we saw at Palace was embarrassing.

Yes it is difficult that is true. But I think what we're doing at the moment, and the situation you are in now, are two different things. In our case we have failed in the past, but for me it's never been what I would term a totally ideal setting. With Rafa, there were too many distractions not least his problems with the then owners. It meant that sometimes it effected the overall feeling of the club, and you know yourself to stand a chance, you need stability. The one with Brendan Rodgers was a difficult one. I didn't have anything against him and thought he did a good job. I liked his style of football, but to me he wasn't really ready for managing Liverpool. His lack of experience in the end told sadly. Now though I feel manager wise we have our best chance, but it will still not be achieved overnight.

In your situation I have to admit my respect for Wenger has made me hesitant to say he should be pushed. But having seen your team recently it is obvious the players no longer seem to believe in him. Therefore its only a matter of time before he will face the end of his time at the club. But I still think it will be hard to appoint the right person for Arsenal, and that's the biggest challenge that you will face.   

[Xabi Gerrard]

But that's not the goal though, otherwise everyone would have been happy with what we were achieving and it's obvious that's not the case. And it's not just because we are missing out on top 4 this season.

10 years ago top 4 was a necessity as part of the business model, it was our minimum target each year, to help ease the burden of the stadium debt. Thats where the trophy comment stemmed from. We didn't like it but we understood it. Now that's not the case, we want more. We want to win trophies, we want to be challenging for the big prizes and this is where the unrest comes from.

Fair enough, it's not the goal for the fans. The Arsenal fans have acted pretty reasonably, just like every other set of fans would, I've made the same point on here a few times before myself. We'd have shown similar levels of content/discontent under the same circumstances, although maybe with fewer "bluds", "fams" and rap battles thrown in, but maybe a few more "las", "teds" and "meffs"

It does seem that's the goal for the owners and Wenger though, and if your manager does start calling it the "4th place trophy" when that's the height of their ambition then you have to accept a little light hearted ribbing from opposition fans and maybe not get too defensive about other clubs targeting top 4. For other clubs its clearly a different scenario to yours as other clubs (owners & manager) see top 4 as just a stepping stone.

[says silent prayer to self in the hope that FSG dont see top 4 as the final destination]

[The North Bank]

Yes it is difficult that is true. But I think what we're doing at the moment, and the situation you are in now, are two different things. In our case we have failed in the past, but for me it's never been what I would term a totally ideal setting. With Rafa, there were too many distractions not least his problems with the then owners. It meant that sometimes it effected the overall feeling of the club, and you know yourself to stand a chance, you need stability. The one with Brendan Rodgers was a difficult one. I didn't have anything against him and thought he did a good job. I liked his style of football, but to me he wasn't really ready for managing Liverpool. His lack of experience in the end told sadly. Now though I feel manager wise we have our best chance, but it will still not be achieved overnight.

In your situation I have to admit my respect for Wenger has made me hesitant to say he should be pushed. But having seen your team recently it is obvious the players no longer seem to believe in him. Therefore its only a matter of time before he will face the end of his time at the club. But I still think it will be hard to appoint the right person for Arsenal, and that's the biggest challenge that you will face.

There is more to a football club than the manager, Klopp is a world class manager and yet may never win the league with Liverpool, whereas Barca and Real can win everything with lesser managers. Arsenal had it easy when Wenger was overachieving, winning titles against teams with better resources,they called him a control freak while bathing in the success he was bringing. The days of him overachieving are over, we need to hire an overachiever, like Klopp, but also to get everything else right, not just leave him be and say job done. The club needs to start working harder, and showing ambition, otherwise we ll never take the next step, regardless of who the manager is. We are a club that has never taken a risk since we hired Wenger, it is now financially viable to take risks, lets see what happens now we are comfortably failing rather than debating the extent of our success. Itll be a very interesting summer.

[cornelius]

The Ox stuff isn't from a reliable Liverpool journalist, it's from James Ducker. It never has been, in January it was from London journalists again. Sounds like agent nonsense to me to be honest

Correct.

[Dim Glas]

The Kolašinac stories true them, or just random Bosnian newspaper rumours. 

[TepidT2O]

The Kolašinac stories true them, or just random Bosnian newspaper rumours. 

Ask Peter the Red, he's outer Balkan press expert (better on Macedonian news of course...)

[Cliff Bastin]

Fair enough, it's not the goal for the fans. The Arsenal fans have acted pretty reasonably, just like every other set of fans would, I've made the same point on here a few times before myself. We'd have shown similar levels of content/discontent under the same circumstances, although maybe with fewer "bluds", "fams" and rap battles thrown in, but maybe a few more "las", "teds" and "meffs"

It does seem that's the goal for the owners and Wenger though, and if your manager does start calling it the "4th place trophy" when that's the height of their ambition then you have to accept a little light hearted ribbing from opposition fans and maybe not get too defensive about other clubs targeting top 4. For other clubs its clearly a different scenario to yours as other clubs (owners & manager) see top 4 as just a stepping stone.

[says silent prayer to self in the hope that FSG dont see top 4 as the final destination]

But you did finish top 4 in 2014 and still didn't strengthen the squad or push on to win the league. I do not see the evidence that FSG are interested in investing in Liverpool to sign world class players to put Liverpool on that higher level.

I predict you will finish top 4, sign a few good players but no world class players and stay around 4th to 6th. The Champions league money is the most important thing to many of these owners who couldn't give a toss about winning trophies.

I don't think FSG are any different.

[4pool]

We'll win the League before Arsenal will.

[ScottishGoon]

The Kolašinac stories true them, or just random Bosnian newspaper rumours. 

It certainly wouldn't be like Wenger or Arsenal in general to be so pro active, so I'd class them as rumours until something more substantial happens.

Not seem much of him bar YouTube, you got an opinion of the lad yourself?

[Dim Glas]

It certainly wouldn't be like Wenger or Arsenal in general to be so pro active, so I'd class them as rumours until something more substantial happens.

Not seem much of him bar YouTube, you got an opinion of the lad yourself?

he's really good. Would make most defences in this league instantly better. Tough and strong too, can run up and down that wing all day.

I know Juve seemed close to signing him on a pre-contract agreement but that didn't happen, I'd be pretty sure Man City would be all over him too, cos they are desperate for at least 2 if not 3 new fullbacks. So if he already decided on Arsenal, i'd be a tad surprised to be honest, seeing that they are so unsettled regareds their manager at the moment. 

[ScottishGoon]

he's really good. Would make most defences in this league instantly better. Tough and strong too, can run up and down that wing all day.

I know Juve seemed close to signing him on a pre-contract agreement but that didn't happen, I'd be pretty sure Man City would be all over him too, cos they are desperate for at least 2 if not 3 new fullbacks. So if he already decided on Arsenal, i'd be a tad surprised to be honest, seeing that they are so unsettled regareds their manager at the moment.

Thanks, I had read similar things as well, I just didn't know if they were slightly biased so always good to see some other opinions. He certainly seems to fit the profile of what we need, we need a bit more pace and power in defence, and if he's played centre back it suggests he could be handy in the air as well.

Like I said though, it's probably just paper talk knowing how we operate (or dont).

[Xabi Gerrard]

But you did finish top 4 in 2014 and still didn't strengthen the squad or push on to win the league. I do not see the evidence that FSG are interested in investing in Liverpool to sign world class players to put Liverpool on that higher level.

I predict you will finish top 4, sign a few good players but no world class players and stay around 4th to 6th. The Champions league money is the most important thing to many of these owners who couldn't give a toss about winning trophies.

I don't think FSG are any different.

To be fair I don't think 2014 was down to lack of effort by FSG, they did spend £120m after all that summer. Just bad buys or players not hitting the ground running.

Maybe you're right though, too early to say. I'm satisfied with the progress under Klopp so far and only when I see that progress is being hampered by FSG not spending what I think is a reasonable amount to back him will I be as bullish as you are about their motives.

[Durlmints]

It's another easy stick for people to bash us with. It's like the 4th place trophy, or the fact we never win anything, both of which haven't been true the last few years, or lack of atmosphere &  tourist fans...which i see at every big club in the country.

Okay so what are fair criticisms of Arsenal? Can I say it's a boring soulless stadium in contrast to Highbury? Can I say that official flag wavers behind the goals are shite?

[Dim Glas]

Thanks, I had read similar things as well, I just didn't know if they were slightly biased so always good to see some other opinions. He certainly seems to fit the profile of what we need, we need a bit more pace and power in defence, and if he's played centre back it suggests he could be handy in the air as well.

Like I said though, it's probably just paper talk knowing how we operate (or dont).

he's very much a left sided player, doesn't really play central defence. But he would seriously improve just about any team in this league in defence bar maybe Spurs, and the way Chelsea are playing, maybe they aren't that deserpate either. But anyone else, for sure.

[Cliff Bastin]

Not with the manager he wouldn't. No one would want to play for him right now, our squad don't.

[zero zero]

I do not see the evidence that FSG are interested in investing in Liverpool to sign world class players to put Liverpool on that higher level.

[The North Bank]

We definitely need a left back, Gibbs has been stealing a living ever since he broke through and Monreal can't handle the physicality of the league week in week out.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

The Kolašinac stories true them, or just random Bosnian newspaper rumours. 

Its a rumour from a website, and Ive never seen it before, so its not coming from a well known or credible source

[PeterTheRed ...]

The Kolašinac stories true them, or just random Bosnian newspaper rumours. 

So far only a rumour from "agent circles", whatever that means.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

The rumour is Milan made a bid, the biggest club in the world made a bigger bid and Arsenal made a super big bid.

[ScottishGoon]

Di Marzio is now claiming Kolasinac signed the contract today as well, not sure if people on here think he is reliable?

[PeterTheRed ...]

We'll win the League before Arsenal will.

If they keep Wenger for another year or two, that is probably true. I actually like Wenger, but the time for him to move on was years ago. Those couple of FA Cup wins have given them some false hope, but the reality is that Arsenal have been stagnating for years.

[The North Bank]

If they keep Wenger for another year or two, that is probably true. I actually like Wenger, but the time for him to move on was years ago. Those couple of FA Cup wins have given them some false hope, but the reality is that Arsenal have been stagnating for years.

If winning 2 cups is false hope, what's winning nothing. Saying you'll win the league before us means little when neither team look anywhere near winning it, it just sounds positive.

[Greatness]

But you did finish top 4 in 2014 and still didn't strengthen the squad or push on to win the league. I do not see the evidence that FSG are interested in investing in Liverpool to sign world class players to put Liverpool on that higher level.

I predict you will finish top 4, sign a few good players but no world class players and stay around 4th to 6th. The Champions league money is the most important thing to many of these owners who couldn't give a toss about winning trophies.

I don't think FSG are any different.

Have to agree though we've won 1 trophy in 7 years under this ownership , along with 1 top 4 finish in 7 years.  Literally been no stability on the pitch under this ownership just ripping up plans and start over  time and time again.

No idea how such a poor average league position under such ownership means we have massive ambitions to win the league.

[PeterTheRed ...]

If winning 2 cups is false hope, what's winning nothing. Saying you'll win the league before us means little when neither team look anywhere near winning it, it just sounds positive.

You are not in the same position as Liverpool. We are going up, you are going down.

[The North Bank]

You are not in the same position as Liverpool. We are going up, you are going down.

Im sure you thought youd win the league before Leciester 2 years ago, and im sure you didnt think youd go 27 years without winning it. Until you actually win it, everything else is just bravado.

[PeterTheRed ...]

Im sure you thought youd win the league before Leciester 2 years ago, and im sure you didnt think youd go 27 years without winning it. Until you actually win it, everything else is just bravado.

We know that we will win the league under Klopp very soon. You know that you will never win the league under Wenger again.

Like I said, we are not in the same position.

[The North Bank]

We know that we will win the league under Klopp very soon. You know that you will never win the league under Wenger again.

Like I said, we are not in the same position.

You're half right anyway.

[Dim Glas]

Di Marzio is now claiming Kolasinac signed the contract today as well, not sure if people on here think he is reliable?

I don't even know what (or who) that is 

[Lycan]

Di Marzio is now claiming Kolasinac signed the contract today as well, not sure if people on here think he is reliable?

Don't find him or that Romano very reliable at all. That's not to say he won't sign for you though.