Topic: 115 charges for the scorched earth cheating bastards on & off the pitch

[wampa1]

They also won the treble last season.

Which barely even registered.

[Fromola]

Seems like journos are starting to complain about City now it's another club (and a London club) who look set to miss out on a title:
https://x.com/draper_rob/status/1791360784456437928

Plus the small matter of them playing the establishment club in a cup final next week.

[Dim Glas]

He's the definition of a chequebook manager

Not quite though, no defence of the drugs cheat, because he’s actually worse    EVERY job has seen him take over a club with immense squads and yes often the wealth too.

He took over a Barcelona side with the likes of Xavi, Messi, Valdes, Puyol, Iniesta, Henry, to name a few already in the first team.  He took over one of the greatest ever Bayern sides, and got to add Lewandowski, Thiago, Alonso and Kimmich to it.  He then takes over Abu Dhabi with the likes of Aguero, Kompany, Silva, Fernandinho, Toure, Sterling, De Bruyne either already there or joined that summer.  And all 3 clubs had won league titles either the season before in Bayern’s case, or a couple years before in the other 2.

The guy’s never had a challenge in his life (apart from with his hair maybe  ).

[LFCEmpire]

I feel so much resentment towards 115 Charges FC now that we are saying goodbye to Jurgen. The cheating pricks denied us and Klopp a few more titles.

[rob1966]

I feel so much resentment towards 115 Charges FC now that we are saying goodbye to Jurgen. The cheating pricks denied us and Klopp a few more titles.

This is mostly where my anger and ill will towards Arsenal cones from, you stood by when it was us, so get fucked, feel the pain, then we'll talk about what to do with the cheats.

Chatting to a Utd fan yesterday who hates the cheats as well, he didn't realise until I said it, that without Klopp, it's 7 on the bounce.  You also have to wonder how many CL s would they have if we didn't push them so hard? (Plus knock them out  )

[LFCEmpire]

This is mostly where my anger and ill will towards Arsenal cones from, you stood by when it was us, so get fucked, feel the pain, then we'll talk about what to do with the cheats.

Most def. Not a chance I want the Arse to win it when we came up short with a record amount of points.

[JRed]

Ped on the bbc sport website saying Abu Dhabi will get the respect from World Football if they win cheat their way to a fourth successive PL title. This cheating prick is the biggest troll out there. He is definitely a bluelooner. He knows what they are and they don’t deserve an ounce or respect for being cheating scum.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

Seems like journos are starting to complain about City now it's another club (and a London club) who look set to miss out on a title:
https://x.com/draper_rob/status/1791360784456437928

Plus the small matter of them playing the establishment club in a cup final next week.

The same regulator they're suggesting won't be able to oppose things that are politically sensitive 

[JRed]

The same regulator they're suggesting won't be able to oppose things that are politically sensitive 

So Saudi and Abu Dhabi will still be untouchable but everyone else will have to abide by the regulations.
That there is why no club should ever be state owned. They are ungovernable.

[Mister Flip Flop]

Carra says Guardiola isn’t a chequebook manager. Guardiola is certainly an elite coach, but there is no way he has the same level of success without the ridiculous levels of expenditure in place at city. He is a defacto chequebook manager.

Just proves how thick Carragher is doesn't it. The drug cheat is the absolute peak cheque book manager.

[decosabute]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/may/18/billionaires-and-banter-wars-modern-footballs-script-is-stuck-in-a-loop

The most ridiculous football writer around does a piece about how the sport is getting ruined by billionaires and states, and the one time he mentions Man City it's to praise how good they are. Fuck off you massive coward.

[jillcwhomever]

This is mostly where my anger and ill will towards Arsenal cones from, you stood by when it was us, so get fucked, feel the pain, then we'll talk about what to do with the cheats.

Chatting to a Utd fan yesterday who hates the cheats as well, he didn't realise until I said it, that without Klopp, it's 7 on the bounce.  You also have to wonder how many CL s would they have if we didn't push them so hard? (Plus knock them out  )

Rob, we'd have been no different had it been Arsenal getting done by City and us watching it all. That's the thing about football, it's full of stupid petty rivalries, where people are unable to stop acting as anything other than a rival fan. Look at Spurs fans the other night, football is full of stuff like this. It's why football fans will continue to get screwed by football in all matters, because people can't step outside their own particular bias. Which makes it all pretty sad considering how the game is going. To be honest, I am over the idea of us losing those titles, you either let it go or it just consumes and you get more bitter about things. For my own sake, I have let it go and for me its about punishing City rather than giving the titles to others.

[I've been a good boy]

Carra says Guardiola isn’t a chequebook manager. Guardiola is certainly an elite coach, but there is no way he has the same level of success without the ridiculous levels of expenditure in place at city. He is a defacto chequebook manager.

Why do a lot of people hold his and Neville's opinion as gospel? Yes they played the game to the highest level and achieved more than any of us ever will, but that doesn't make them right about everything. Some of the shit they've come out with I'd expect from hairy hands.

[Dr. Beaker]

Rob, we'd have been no different had it been Arsenal getting done by City and us watching it all. That's the thing about football, it's full of stupid petty rivalries, where people are unable to stop acting as anything other than a rival fan. Look at Spurs fans the other night, football is full of stuff like this. It's why football fans will continue to get screwed by football in all matters, because people can't step outside their own particular bias. Which makes it all pretty sad considering how the game is going. To be honest, I am over the idea of us losing those titles, you either let it go or it just consumes and you get more bitter about things. For my own sake, I have let it go and for me its about punishing City rather than giving the titles to others.

It must be about deterrence.

[stockdam]

It must be about deterrence.

Deterrence is only half of it. The trophies they won must also be removed. They can’t be found guilty and nothing done about what they won when they cheated.

Unfortunately the joy of winning cannot be taken away but they can’t be allowed to show that they won X trophies during the period. They also should be left with an extremely bitter taste in their mouths in that they should ask themselves if it was worth it. Hence the punishment must be severe and lengthy. They must realise that the risk of being caught is much more severe that the risk of not being caught. They’ve had their 15 years of glory and they now should face 15 years of not being eligible to win anything.

[Dr. Beaker]

Deterrence is only half of it. The trophies they won must also be removed. They can’t be found guilty and nothing done about what they won when they cheated.

Unfortunately the joy of winning cannot be taken away but they can’t be allowed to show that they won X trophies during the period. They also should be left with an extremely bitter taste in their mouths in that they should ask themselves if it was worth it. Hence the punishment must be severe and lengthy. They must realise that the risk of being caught is much more severe that the risk of not being caught. They’ve had their 15 years of glory and they now should face 15 years of not being eligible to win anything.

Sounds like deterrence to me.

[Son of Spion]

Why do a lot of people hold his and Neville's opinion as gospel? Yes they played the game to the highest level and achieved more than any of us ever will, but that doesn't make them right about everything. Some of the shit they've come out with I'd expect from hairy hands.

I don't think anyone does actually take their words as gospel. Quite the opposite actually. People comment on what they've said because it's often completely ridiculous and without credibility.

[MonsLibpool]

Which barely even registered.

That's the point. If the penny didn't drop last season, when will it drop?

When they win 4 in a row tomorrow,  people will be more focused on Arsenal.

[Andar]

Rob, we'd have been no different had it been Arsenal getting done by City and us watching it all. That's the thing about football, it's full of stupid petty rivalries, where people are unable to stop acting as anything other than a rival fan. Look at Spurs fans the other night, football is full of stuff like this. It's why football fans will continue to get screwed by football in all matters, because people can't step outside their own particular bias. Which makes it all pretty sad considering how the game is going. To be honest, I am over the idea of us losing those titles, you either let it go or it just consumes and you get more bitter about things. For my own sake, I have let it go and for me its about punishing City rather than giving the titles to others.

Well said.

[B0151?]

In a dream world we have the title already sewn up obviously. But thank God at least that we're not in a position where these cheats can ruin Klopp's last game. Would have been very difficult to take.

[Ray K]

Dion Fanning: There has never been a side like Man City, why does nobody care?

If Manchester City do what is widely expected this weekend, they will have achieved something no other side in the history of English football has ever managed.

From the origins of the game in the 19th century when the Football League was formed by th drapers and mill owners who were the forces in English football then to the present day of petro-states and venture capitalists, no club has been as close to this achievement as Manchester City.

No club in the history of English football has won four league titles in a row.

In 1927, Huddersfield finished second, five points behind Newcastle United, after winning the previous three league titles. In the early 1930s, Arsenal won four out of five titles, missing out by two points in 1932 and going on to win the next three.

Liverpool won four out of five in the 1970s. United took Chelsea to the final day in 2010 when they could have won four in a row, but, on that final day, it was out of their hands.


On the other hand, City are in control. Manchester City are in control of everything. A victory against West Ham and they will have won, not only four in a row, but six out of the last seven Premier League titles. That only scratches the surface of their dominance. Three of those titles have come with more than 90 points. Pep Guardiola’s first title in 2018 was won with 100 points.

To win it this weekend, they will probably need to go past 90 points again.

If they then go on to beat Manchester United in the FA Cup final next weekend, City will have done another double, following last season’s treble.

This is clearly a team that comes around once in a generation. This is football that the world should be desperate to witness. There is surely sadness even at the fleeting thought that one day this team will fade from view.

This is relentless excellence that, for some reason, is treated with all the excitement that goes with renewing your car insurance.

Why is this? Does brilliance at this level of consistency ultimately bore us? Without the jeopardy that so many of us need from sport, do Guardiola’s City receive the same limited affection as Steve Davis or the West Germany side of the 1970s and 80s?

“Losing after great striving is the story of man,” Roger Kahn, author of The Boys of Summer, wrote. This is why Jimmy White, the Dutch side that lost two World Cup finals and Mayo are the sportspeople who stay with us.

Nobody can doubt Pep Guardiola’s genius or the drive he has brought to excelling at City. The football his side play is as close to a version of perfection as can be imagined. City take teams apart with precision and coldness.

They have acquired strength in such depth that players remain fresh while their rivals look weary. They can afford for €120 million signings like Jack Grealish to become peripheral players. They have purged risk from their game wherever they can and when we watch sport we want to believe there is something at risk.

But that doesn’t seem to capture the deep ambivalence to Manchester City’s achievements, achievements which so often occupy the throat-clearing section of an article about them before it moves on to what we might describe as the asterisk.

There are many of us who would reject the suggestion that there was something boring about Tiger Woods or Roger Federer at their peak.

David Foster Wallace wrote about the near religious experience of watching Federer while Woods transformed golf. During Woods’s peak years, those watching golf on television increased by a third while in ten years between 1996 and 2006, 2,000 more golf clubs were built in America.

By that standard, people would be falling over themselves to cover Manchester City. Yet everyone in the media will tell you the same thing: fewer people are interested in City than they are in Arsenal or Liverpool.

Jurgen Klopp departs with only one league title this weekend and yet there has been more attention on Klopp than on this unprecedented greatness.

Klopp has done more than anyone to keep the Premier League competitive in the Abu Dhabi era. Yet he has been worn down by the demands and by the impossibility of competing.

This, too, is something that is different to the great rivalries.

When Bjorn Borg retired from tennis at 25, his greatest rival John McEnroe was devastated. “It was a f***ing tragedy,” he said later.

Those of us who covered the Alex Ferguson-Arsene Wenger years will know how the obsession to compete drove both men on endlessly.

Yet Klopp leaves exhausted. He is exhausted by the demands, by the media, by the travel and by the strain, not of competing with genius as McEnroe or Wenger had to, but by competing with what seems like impossible odds.

Sheikh Mansour’s time at City has been an unqualified success, but the Premier League must now wonder how the illusion of competitiveness will be maintained.

Mikel Arteta’s Arsenal have had a remarkable season. Since their defeat at home to Villa, they have won every game but that defeat at the Emirates is the difference. City have won every league game since drawing with Arsenal at the end of March.

They are unbeaten since the beginning of December. This has been the story every season. By the standards of all that went before this era, this is staggering. It is not normal to be in despair, as Arsenal were, after losing one league game in 2024.

If City are successful this weekend, only Klopp will have prevented City from winning an extraordinary seven titles in a row.

Guardiola has rejected the idea that money has taken City to where they are, but his genius wouldn’t be at City without Abu Dhabi’s money.

Other clubs have higher wage bills and a club’s wage bill is generally acknowledged to be the strongest indicator of how they will perform. City are outperforming theirs by, according to analysis done by the Financial Times’s John Burn-Murdoch, 15 points a season.

This in part is surely down to the genius of Guardiola and the smart backroom team that has worked so brilliantly to make the most of its advantages.

Yet among the 115 financial charges that Manchester City are facing are those that allege they did not provide full details of payments to players. As Burn-Murdoch put it, this offered “a more ominous possible explanation of the club’s outsized success: that it could have been paying some of its playing and coaching staff additional fees not disclosed in its accounts”. City deny this and all 115 charges.

One day there may be clarity when the charges are dealt with or, as is the case with everything in the modern era, the arguments might persist forever.

Until then, how you respond to history might tell its own story. Will you gather people round to watch this unparalleled accomplishment or will you shrug?

Will you tell your children to watch this moment in history as last weekend we looked into the sky to witness the Northern Lights or will you encourage them to go outside if the sun is shining? What is it about this history that leaves so many people unmoved?

Perhaps it is because we have been looking at it the wrong way round.

It may be that what we thought was the pebble in Manchester City’s shoe is in fact the history.

Maybe the four-in-a-row is the asterisk, while in the future people will scratch their heads over everything else in Manchester City’s story and wonder how that could ever have happened.

[redgriffin73]

Dion Fanning: There has never been a side like Man City, why does nobody care?

Great article, thanks for posting.

[rob1966]

Rob, we'd have been no different had it been Arsenal getting done by City and us watching it all. That's the thing about football, it's full of stupid petty rivalries, where people are unable to stop acting as anything other than a rival fan. Look at Spurs fans the other night, football is full of stuff like this. It's why football fans will continue to get screwed by football in all matters, because people can't step outside their own particular bias. Which makes it all pretty sad considering how the game is going. To be honest, I am over the idea of us losing those titles, you either let it go or it just consumes and you get more bitter about things. For my own sake, I have let it go and for me its about punishing City rather than giving the titles to others.

I'll be honest Jill, I laughed when they bear Utd in 2012, but back then I thought they'd never grow. Over the next couple of years though I saw what they were doing and I hated them and I can honestly say I'd have been pissed off if Arsenal for example had been in our shoes. My Manc mates will back me on this, I've said for years I'd rather they won it than city, as utd at least were a legitimate club.

The behaviour from Spurs fans was a disgrace, they're missing out on CL next season due to ADFC, pathetic bunch of lovers, so glad now we did them in Madrid, small time c*nts. Couldn't believe it just after 4 this morning when I saw a bunch of them doing the Poznan, if I was Ange, I'd be looking for a new club.

We've walked alone the 7 years, it's time footy woke up. Maybe tomorrow will be the day

[tonysleft]

The more Arsenal keep getting screwed, the better. More eyes are being opened to the fact that this is now a farmers league. Everyone has to be fucking perfect to even be in with a chance. If only it was United getting fucked over, everyone would be up in arms.

Like they were in 2012?

[TSC]

Who knows to what extent discussions continue at government level.  The cynic may suspect a few brown envelopes will float around between now and a GE.

https://cityxtra.co.uk/6348/manchester-citys-premier-league-charges-discussed-by-uk-government-embassy-in-abu-dhabi-and-fcdo-in-london/

If there is a change in administration not sure to what extent (if any) Starmer being an Arsenal fan changes things.

[wah00ey]

Discussing City on 5-Live currently.  Nedum Onuoha said people concerned over City winning because of the 115 charges are missing the point - they've won because of the wonderful football they've played, not because they may or may not have cheated.

This went unchallenged, indeed the studio largely agreed with him.

[JRed]

Discussing City on 5-Live currently.  Nedum Onuoha said people concerned over City winning because of the 115 charges are missing the point - they've won because of the wonderful football they've played, not because they may or may not have cheated.

This went unchallenged, indeed the studio largely agreed with him.

Madness isn’t it? Totally missing the point that they cheated to get where they are and that he was part of the cheating and is now just a shill for the regime.

[Hazell]

Shame, I think Onouha speaks more sense generally than most other pundits but he's pretty much the same as everyone else when it comes to Man City and their charges.

[Red Ol]

Madness isn’t it? Totally missing the point that they cheated to get where they are and that he was part of the cheating and is now just a shill for the regime.

Absolute madness. They just can’t see beyond the end of their noses. If the starting runner on your 4X4 relay team is doped but the runner on the last leg is clean, even if that runner was Ussain Bolt, then the whole fucking team is disqualified. What’s so hard to understand about that? And the really stupid part about it is that for all the years and years of persistent and blatant lying about it the farcical pretence of innocence has only gone to cement a legacy of illegitimacy as a club.

They will never get the credit that they’re so desperate for. Those who run the game (and those who run the county for that matter) and all their tens of ignorant plastic flag waving fans might turn a collective blind eye, but those of us who’ve invested decades of our lives supporting and loving teams who’ve done it the right way won’t ever view ADFC as anything other than rich arrogant fakers

[wah00ey]

Madness isn’t it? Totally missing the point that they cheated to get where they are and that he was part of the cheating and is now just a shill for the regime.

Yep.  Might as well be saying "forget the drugs, look at the times of Ben Johnson and Lance Armstrong - that's what's important."  Half or more of the players they have would not be there but for the (alleged ;-)) cheating!  Let alone Guardiola.

[oojason]

Madness isn’t it? Totally missing the point that they cheated to get where they are and that he was part of the cheating and is now just a shill for the regime.

and

Shame, I think Onouha speaks more sense generally than most other pundits but he's pretty much the same as everyone else when it comes to Man City and their charges.

It is worth remembering that Onouha is also a Man City Ambassador - as well as sitting on the board of the Community’s Board of Trustees at Man City.

5Live must have simply forgot to mention that...


It is probably also worth pointing out that BBC 5 Live broadcasts from MediaCityUK in Salford in Greater Manchester, and is a department of the BBC North division.

[Crosby Nick]

Discussing City on 5-Live currently.  Nedum Onuoha said people concerned over City winning because of the 115 charges are missing the point - they've won because of the wonderful football they've played, not because they may or may not have cheated.

This went unchallenged, indeed the studio largely agreed with him.

And the ‘wonderful/deathly boring’ football they play is only possible because of their manager. And he’s only there because of the years of cheating that got them to the point of making them an attractive proposition for one of the best coaches in the game. How do they not acknowledge that?

Even if you say they’ve been ‘clean’ since Pep was there which in itself feels like bollocks, but if we take the time period of the chargers at face value, all those years of cheating for them to a point where they can write their own increases sponsorship deals, get some legitimate ones in and say “we’re Champions of England/Europe, of course we have big revenues’. All one big sham.

[Snusmumriken]

Been hearing variations of the argument ”It’s not the money a lot of clubs spend, it’s their fantasic manager” over the years. Even if  if you buy in to that argument, you quite miss the point that them having tied down one of the best managers around for years is part of the cheating, he’s hardly there for the challenge of managing Man City and be part of whatever the club is suppose to be about.

The question shouldn’t be: is it the spending or Pep. Rather, why the heck is ome of this eras best managers in City to begin with.

[Ma Vie en Rouge]

I mean, what the hell do they think City cheated for if not to gain an unfair advantage? That's what cheating is for! That's all it is for.

"Yes they cheated but that's not why they won..." Well, why did they cheat then? Just for fun? It's so ridiculous, but this is what happens when media coverage consists of fairly dense people alongside those who have been paid off or who rely on the illusion of the Premier League being fair for their work.

[Hazell]

It is worth remembering that Onouha is also a Man City Ambassador - as well as sitting on the board of the Community’s Board of Trustees at Man City.

Ah didn't know that. Pointless having him discussing it then.

[west_london_red]

Been hearing variations of the argument ”It’s not the money a lot of clubs spend, it’s their fantasic manager” over the years. Even if  if you buy in to that argument, you quite miss the point that them having tied down one of the best managers around for years is part of the cheating, he’s hardly there for the challenge of managing Man City and be part of whatever the club is suppose to be about.

The question shouldn’t be: is it the spending or Pep. Rather, why the heck is ome of this eras best managers in City to begin with.

I hope when they do finally get relegated there is some very sharp questions asked of Saint Pep of Catalonia. As I said before, he’s absolutely sold his soul to the devil, he’s an intelligent man, he knows exactly how City’s success has been built but he’s constantly said there’s nothing to see here, he’s been assured everything is above board, unless he’s been walking around with his eyes closed since he arrived in Manchester he’s absolutely complicit in what the club have been doing although I’m sure he’ll claim to be a victim when he leaves.

[Son of Spion]

Madness isn’t it? Totally missing the point that they cheated to get where they are and that he was part of the cheating and is now just a shill for the regime.

It's absolutely bizarre how blind so many people are. The 'Man City' team that plays such 'good' football is the proceeds of crime. A crime against fair sportsmanship. A crime against the game and the millions of fans that follow it. A crime against the rules of the game.

Too many blinkered idiots are admiring the chavvy  mansion and the hideously expensively modified Vauxhall Corsa on the drive, rather than addressing how those inside came to acquire them.

[Son of Spion]

Been hearing variations of the argument ”It’s not the money a lot of clubs spend, it’s their fantasic manager” over the years. Even if  if you buy in to that argument, you quite miss the point that them having tied down one of the best managers around for years is part of the cheating, he’s hardly there for the challenge of managing Man City and be part of whatever the club is suppose to be about.

The question shouldn’t be: is it the spending or Pep. Rather, why the heck is ome of this eras best managers in City to begin with.

If the old Man City come calling, Ped doesn't even take the call. His cleaner rejects their advances whilst laughing her head off. If a nation state comes calling, his ears go up and he's interested. He has been lavishly rewarded for agreeing to become an integral part of the sportswash project. If it wasn't for the unlimited money he simply doesn't go there. There's nothing for him to buy into. No identity. No club ethos to speak of. Just the other club in a nondescript city. It would also be somewhere he'd actually have to put some real work in, rather than play fantasy football manager with a nation's money. No way does he even consider them other than for the sportswashing project.

[The North Bank]

If the old Man City come calling, Ped doesn't even take the call. His cleaner rejects their advances whilst laughing her head off. If a nation state comes calling, his ears go up and he's interested. He has been lavishly rewarded for agreeing to become an integral part of the sportswash project. If it wasn't for the unlimited money he simply doesn't go there. There's nothing for him to buy into. No identity. No club ethos to speak of. Just the other club in a nondescript city. It would also be somewhere he'd actually have to put some real work in, rather than play fantasy football manager with a nation's money. No way does he even consider them other than for the sportswashing project.

Hed have taken the call, then turned up at Old Trafford next day for the meeting “someone from Manchester called me”

[Tobelius]

I hope when they do finally get relegated there is some very sharp questions asked of Saint Pep of Catalonia. As I said before, he’s absolutely sold his soul to the devil, he’s an intelligent man, he knows exactly how City’s success has been built but he’s constantly said there’s nothing to see here, he’s been assured everything is above board, unless he’s been walking around with his eyes closed since he arrived in Manchester he’s absolutely complicit in what the club have been doing although I’m sure he’ll claim to be a victim when he leaves.

Not that different than a mob crime family moving into legitimate businesses,the foundation of their empire was still built criminally (or cheating in AD's case) no matter how clean the accounts look now.