Topic: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - WELCOME, 'A PLAYER'!!

[JRed]

If we don’t sign a goal scorer , either a striker or goal scoring attacking midfielder or both, do people think we will win the league? With the signings Utd and likely Abu Dhabi are making I’m not sure we would have the necessary strength in depth to challenge. I can’t see us not signing someone to be fair, not after the January window debacle, particularly with losing our only regular goal scorers to Afcon mid-season.

[El Lobo]

You have to say, it makes the decision to sign Adrián again more puzzling, considering the marginal gain you get from a third keeper who is sound (but like, not very good and not getting better) vs an outfield player more likely to sign.

Also you'd have to question the value of Tsimikas vs Jamal Lewis given last season's return.

But also... you have to assume they have some plan to refresh the squad after a few lads are sold.

We can have 17 'over age' non-homegrown players and 8 'over age' homegrown players

Currently we have: Adrian, Allison, Karius, VVD, Konate, Matip, Robbo, Tsimikas, Fabinho, Keita, Thiago, Shaq, Minamino, Bobby, Mo, Sadio, Jota and Origi.

Thats eighteen. Karius obviously isn't going to be here next season. We've then got Shaq, Origi and Minamino all fairly likely to leave. Which leaves us on 14.

I think it'd be nice to give the recruitment team the benefit of the doubt that they know what they're doing, because there seems to be an undercurrent of thinking they've gone 'shit, now we've got too many foreign players, we can't sign anymore best cancel the Bissouma and Auoar deals'.

Homegrown we've got:

Kelleher, Trent, Gomez, Hendo, Milner, Ox, Davies, Ojo, Phillips and Woodburn

Ten, but again probably three of them who don't have a future at the club beyond this summer

We've also got four first team/squad players under 21 who don't need to be registered (Curtis, Neco, Rhys and Harvey).

If we had eighteen non-homegrown players and ten homegrown players that we wanted to keep then clearly it'd be an issue, but we don't so it really isn't. We're just not daft enough to do a United and spend a load of money before we've tried to shift the players we obviously want to shift. You only have to question keeping Adrian if it impacts our ability to sign someone we really want, which it hasn't so far.

[DonkeyWan]

As I'm bored and we've not been credibly linked with anyone for a while, I'll pose this:

If you could sign any player in the world to play for us now, who would you go for?

It's a tricky one for me. Lewandowski would obviously be a glorious option at CF but age is not on his side. Presumably Mbappe or Haaland would be high on most lists.

Mastik Bostik

Feel the whole team could come together around him

[Barefoot Doctor]

I agree with him to a point but I think the worrying about squad places gets a little excessive.

Our 25 for this season currently on the books are:

Thiago   
Trent*
Firmino   
Alisson   
Davies*
Gomez*
Henderson*
Fabinho
Keita   
Kelleher*
Konate
Mane
Matip
Milner*
Minamino
Origi   
Oxlade-Chamberlain*
Phillips*
Robertson   
Salah   
Adrian   
Shaqiri
Jota   
Tsimakis   
Van Dijk   

Jones, Neco Williams, Rhys Williams and Elliot are all classed as U21 for this season (and the latter two will be beyond). Milner will leave at the end of the season so Jones will take his place and by the sound of it Neco may be on the way too. So until Elliot comes of age, the home grown thing isn’t a problem. Who knows what will happen with Kelleher or Davies in 12 months either? Last season we had Joe Hardy registered in our 25 but there’s no way we’d do that again if we needed the spot free.

So we need to free up two spaces from the above 25 to bring in two players, and by all accounts we’re happy to sell Phillips, Shaqiri, Taki and Origi. The former two sound like they have concrete interest for permanent moves. The latter two perhaps less so but I’d be very surprised if there weren’t sides keen to take them on loan. This frees up the squad space (if we need it) and protects their value (if we won’t otherwise play them).

Karius has no resale value anyway, realistically (and sadly) he’s not done enough since Kiev to protect any value he once had. Leaving him out the squad is going to have little impact and frankly clubs will know given that we have 3 keepers already we won’t waste a squad space on him. Ojo will also move on but again, he’s not been a first team fixture at Liverpool and buying clubs know this. Whether or not we can or do register him isn’t going to do much to his value.

So yes, we do need to make some space, but both from the perspective of foreign players and hone grown players it’s not a critical issue this far away from the start of the season. I’d expect to see Shaqiri sold in the next couple of weeks and probably Phillips following. Origi and Taki will probably hang around until the end of the window as clubs try to get a cut price transfer or loan, then it’s up to the club to decide whether to accept.

Good post, but there is a (maybe minor) issue with the squad that hasn't been touched on yet. While Elliott doesn't need to be counted in the PL squad due to his age, he does have to be included in the senior squad for the Champions League - because you can only be on List B (the U21s/youths) if you have spent two consecutive seasons at the club (or two seasons across three years with one loan to a domestic club in there). So while Elliott can be on List B next season, he'll need to be on List A this season. Now, the complication is how Uefa deals with homegrown players. You can only have a maximum of four 'association-trained' players i.e. a homegrown player who didn't come through your academy. With Elliott included, we actually have six - Henderson, Milner, Chamberlain, Elliott, Phillips and Davies. And any surplus in your numbers here need to be rolled into your non-homegrown list, where as we know we currently have no room. So I think it's no surprise we're trying to sell Phillips, and I expect that even if Davies stays he unfortunately won't be able to be registered for European games. I believe we technically had either Phillips or Davies down as non-homegrown in the latter half of the CL last season due to the same issue, but obviously we had the space because of all the injuries.

[Ravishing Rick Dude]

I was thinking today how far we've come. Yes, we have players that we want to sell, but we don't have players that we want to "get rid".

[Fromola]

If we don’t sign a goal scorer , either a striker or goal scoring attacking midfielder or both, do people think we will win the league? With the signings Utd and likely Abu Dhabi are making I’m not sure we would have the necessary strength in depth to challenge. I can’t see us not signing someone to be fair, not after the January window debacle, particularly with losing our only regular goal scorers to Afcon mid-season.

It's extremely difficult to win the PL even if we did, let alone if we don't. You just want to be up there challenging at least, for which I think we need at least one more player who can make a good impact given Wijnaldum needs replacing (and be a lot more injury free as an injury ravaged season makes it impossible).

City will be 90+ points again and I always say we have to be much better than United in this league to finish above them, given the reality of the refereeing, biases and cheating. Throw Kane and/or Grealish in a City shirt and it'll be the same with them.

[No666]

This is true mate, although it's fair to say we're clearing the decks in terms of sales it seems, with players ordinarily the subject of loan deals being sold permanently. It's interesting and you do suspect there's joined up thinking behind all of it somehow.

Oh, I agree - the joined-up thinking is obvious and the long-term thinking. But part of the joined-up thinking is what they feed to the press; the glimpse it gives us of their thinking is partial and the angle carefully chosen for the moment. We haven't a clue whether how seriously to take the 'no more additions' statement, nor the 'next year for rebuilding' statement, really.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Id sa salah down the middle happens before Origi gets on the pitch

Any of our three wide forwards do mate, I agree. But if one of them is injured, or needs a rest, that means we no longer have two of them in the wide forward roles should we use one through the middle. And I think that's when we become a far less potent team.

[Barefoot Doctor]

Jovetic going to Hertha seems to have opened the door for Matheus Cunha to move on. Think Leeds have been tipped to go for him, but also some suggestions he'd be a good fit for us. Some strong underlying stats, but looks much more an attacking mid than a centre forward - certainly not many goals for a striker. Equally, has only just turned 22 so still very young and may be one we think could improve in our system.

Also think it's interesting that according to Fbref, the player he profiles most similarly to is Raphinha. If he goes there, are they getting his successor?

[MD1990]

Jovetic is off to Hertha Berlin.

Cunha I think would make a lot of sense. Can play all across the front line, Quick,brillant 1v1,strong & still only just gone 22. 1 in 3 since he joined a struggling Hertha side. Would cost 25-30m.

Maybe something we can do after the Olympics

[royhendo]

Oh, I agree - the joined-up thinking is obvious and the long-term thinking. But part of the joined-up thinking is what they feed to the press; the glimpse it gives us of their thinking is partial and the angle carefully chosen for the moment. We haven't a clue whether how seriously to take the 'no more additions' statement, nor the 'next year for rebuilding' statement, really.

Yeah - I don't take it seriously at all (the no more additions aspect, any road). I think we'll do one or two - it just feels like Klopp will tend to do that in the summer because the preference is not to do any business in January if they can help it.

[meady1981]

No news is good news.

[Gerry Attrick]

No news is good news.

In the case of Jarred Bowen, absolutely.

[Crimson]

No news is good news.

Not for Rawkites' state of mind!

[HardworkDedication]

Good post, but there is a (maybe minor) issue with the squad that hasn't been touched on yet. While Elliott doesn't need to be counted in the PL squad due to his age, he does have to be included in the senior squad for the Champions League - because you can only be on List B (the U21s/youths) if you have spent two consecutive seasons at the club (or two seasons across three years with one loan to a domestic club in there). So while Elliott can be on List B next season, he'll need to be on List A this season. Now, the complication is how Uefa deals with homegrown players. You can only have a maximum of four 'association-trained' players i.e. a homegrown player who didn't come through your academy. With Elliott included, we actually have six - Henderson, Milner, Chamberlain, Elliott, Phillips and Davies. And any surplus in your numbers here need to be rolled into your non-homegrown list, where as we know we currently have no room. So I think it's no surprise we're trying to sell Phillips, and I expect that even if Davies stays he unfortunately won't be able to be registered for European games. I believe we technically had either Phillips or Davies down as non-homegrown in the latter half of the CL last season due to the same issue, but obviously we had the space because of all the injuries.

Wouldn't that be seven as you have missed out Gomez?

[Paul_h]

all Bobby needs is the fans back in.

Yup!

Needs the love back again!

[El Lobo]

Wouldn't that be seven as you have missed out Gomez?

Think he classes as club trained as we signed him at 18 and he's never been out on loan

[Jookie]

I’m surprised Karius’ contract hasn’t expired yet. Did we give him an extension or something?

Me too. I thought he signed a 5 year deal in the summer of 2016.

Can't remember him signing a contract extension either. Maybe the 2 year loan deal at Beşiktaş affected the contract in some way -  a year was deferred on his Liverpool contract?

Unless he signed a contract extension between 2106-2018 then it doesn't;t make sense to me.

[JRed]

It's extremely difficult to win the PL even if we did, let alone if we don't. You just want to be up there challenging at least, for which I think we need at least one more player who can make a good impact given Wijnaldum needs replacing (and be a lot more injury free as an injury ravaged season makes it impossible).

City will be 90+ points again and I always say we have to be much better than United in this league to finish above them, given the reality of the refereeing, biases and cheating. Throw Kane and/or Grealish in a City shirt and it'll be the same with them.

Very true. Without the dodgy officials I don’t think we would’ve struggled for top 4, with city buying the leagues most effective English divers, alongside Sterling, the refs will be competing to see who can give them the most decisions. Maybe FSG are still basing their business model on Abu Dhabi being dealt with properly by the PL investigation.

[Barefoot Doctor]

Think he classes as club trained as we signed him at 18 and he's never been out on loan

Yeah exactly that - Kelleher, Trent and Gomez are our three 'club-trained' players. Jones will join that list too, as will Elliott just not until next year.

[El Lobo]

Me too. I thought he signed a 5 year deal in the summer of 2016.

Can't remember him signing a contract extension either. Maybe the 2 year loan deal at Beşiktaş affected the contract in some way -  a year was deferred on his Liverpool contract?

Unless he signed a contract extension between 2106-2018 then it doesn't;t make sense to me.

Exactly that apparently

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/loris-karius-Beşiktaş-transfer-explained-15052767

[HardworkDedication]

The link doesn't work mate.

[El Lobo]

Buggar! Need some advice from Samie on posting crap links!

But anyway it said that when he went on the two year loan, part of the agreement was that he signed a one year extension with Liverpool taking him to 2022.

[HardworkDedication]

Thanks mate

[Machae]

Were Beşiktaş sanctioned for their treatment of Karius?

[Asam]

Its True. Jota Thiago and Konate barely cost 100 million pounds and are only just about truly excellent.

vvd and ali were the final pieces in a puzzle. We dont have any immediate need to buy a best in the world at any position right now, this year. We already arguably have five at rw rb lb cb and goalie.

Konate hasn’t played a game for us yet, so he’s not earned the excellent label just yet, Thiago had a mixed season, he certainly wasn’t excellent for us, Jota was fantastic & would’ve been our player of the season without his injury

Not going to bore everyone with a nett spend retort but we know we haven’t spent anything near that figure in real terms

We do need someone that can contribute significantly from midfield and a high quality forward, remember, my post was we need players who can make an impact not asking for Haaland but whoever we do sign needs to be of similar standard of Jota

[Kenny's Jacket]

Any of our three wide forwards do mate, I agree. But if one of them is injured, or needs a rest, that means we no longer have two of them in the wide forward roles should we use one through the middle. And I think that's when we become a far less potent team.

Sure, but we are still two injuries away from having to use Divock

[Asam]

To be fair, the midfield is set up to give the forwards and fullbacks freedom. The midfield lack of goals is because their primary function is to plug gaps. Look at Gini's goal output for country vs club.

Then why did the same midfield/same system score around 20 the year previous?

[Welshred]

Then why did the same midfield/same system score around 20 the year previous?

Because Milner was taking penalties

[Drinks Sangria]

Jovetic going to Hertha seems to have opened the door for Matheus Cunha to move on. Think Leeds have been tipped to go for him, but also some suggestions he'd be a good fit for us. Some strong underlying stats, but looks much more an attacking mid than a centre forward - certainly not many goals for a striker. Equally, has only just turned 22 so still very young and may be one we think could improve in our system.

Also think it's interesting that according to Fbref, the player he profiles most similarly to is Raphinha. If he goes there, are they getting his successor?

If Leeds are cashing on Raphinha and replacing him with Cunha, whilst I can understand Raphinha has that extra development and extra data available, we should be going for Cunha instead. He's already at Raphinha's level and will exceed that too, I think. I'd much rather take the younger player even given what Raphinha achieved in his first season as Leeds.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Because Milner was taking penalties

and Ox scored 11, or so go, Shaq contributed with 5 or 6 [off the top of my mind].

[Fromola]

Very true. Without the dodgy officials I don’t think we would’ve struggled for top 4, with city buying the leagues most effective English divers, alongside Sterling, the refs will be competing to see who can give them the most decisions. Maybe FSG are still basing their business model on Abu Dhabi being dealt with properly by the PL investigation.

Kane at City would break the Premier League scoring record next season, as he'd be guaranteed 15+ pens alone. Dixie Dean's record might be under threat.

[Jookie]

Good post, but there is a (maybe minor) issue with the squad that hasn't been touched on yet. While Elliott doesn't need to be counted in the PL squad due to his age, he does have to be included in the senior squad for the Champions League - because you can only be on List B (the U21s/youths) if you have spent two consecutive seasons at the club (or two seasons across three years with one loan to a domestic club in there). So while Elliott can be on List B next season, he'll need to be on List A this season. Now, the complication is how Uefa deals with homegrown players. You can only have a maximum of four 'association-trained' players i.e. a homegrown player who didn't come through your academy. With Elliott included, we actually have six - Henderson, Milner, Chamberlain, Elliott, Phillips and Davies. And any surplus in your numbers here need to be rolled into your non-homegrown list, where as we know we currently have no room. So I think it's no surprise we're trying to sell Phillips, and I expect that even if Davies stays he unfortunately won't be able to be registered for European games. I believe we technically had either Phillips or Davies down as non-homegrown in the latter half of the CL last season due to the same issue, but obviously we had the space because of all the injuries.

This is a good point and likely to effect Elliott, Phillips, Davies and/or potentially 1 of the non-homegrown players in the CL squad.

Subtle differences make an issue given the current composition of our squad. Players like Phillips and Davies are good value as homegrown players in PL squad but less so in UEFA CL squad.

[Jookie]

Exactly that apparently

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/loris-karius-Beşiktaş-transfer-explained-15052767

Cheers mate. Can't remember this at all.

[Gifted Right Foot]

If Leeds are cashing on Raphinha and replacing him with Cunha, whilst I can understand Raphinha has that extra development and extra data available, we should be going for Cunha instead. He's already at Raphinha's level and will exceed that too, I think. I'd much rather take the younger player even given what Raphinha achieved in his first season as Leeds.

Oh wow do you rate Cunha that much?  I rate Raphinha is all (secretly hope we are trying to sign him) and i've hardly seen Cunha play so just curious where his level was. 

[Asam]

Because Milner was taking penalties

Eh? he scored 2 goals that season

[Dr Stu-Pid]

I think that the insanity of last season has blinded people to just how good our current squad actually is.  We had a squad that put together back to back 97+ point seasons and still have all of those players with us with the exception of Gini, but have also strengthened by adding Jota, Thiago, Tsimikas, Jones, and now Konate.  Last season was not normal and we shouldn't expect a repeat.  We had zero crowds at Anfield, no pre-season, the worst injury crisis in living memory, bits of green on our kit, and seemingly every big refereeing decision going against us.  The first two are (hopefully) not going to be repeated this year, and we'd be unlucky if we have 50% of the injuries that we had last year.  I still expect the referees to f*ck us over though, and we've swapped the bits of green for orange/ pink/ atomic red...

Players like Ox and Keita are excellent players but some people are keen to just assume that they will contribute nothing for us next season.  I know it is hard to believe sometimes but Keita actually started the first 4 games for us last season, so he's not just a squad player, he is someone that can make a real difference for us if (and I realise that it is a huge if) he can stay fit for even 70% of the season.  Obviously Mane and Firmino's form was a concern last season, but with so many bizarre things going on around them I think it is far too premature to be assuming that will be the case this season as well.

So how about a bit of optimism?  Even with everything that went on last season you have to remember that we had a run of 14 games to start the season with a PPG of 2.2, and 10 games to end the season with a PPG of 2.6.  That is 90+ point form but was sunk by the depth charge of a middle 14 games where we played to 0.9 PPG and couldn't score a goal (let alone win a game) at Anfield.  Even if we don't sign anyone else I'll still have us as favourites to finish above Utd and Chelsea and certainly wouldn't trade squads with either of them.

[Samie]

Some of you seriously need to leave this thread. You lads are camped out on here.

[lionel_messias]

Some of you seriously need to leave this thread. You lads are camped out on here.

I'd close the thread, it's full of absolute shite. We're clearly keeping our cards close to our chest, transfer-wise. We'll either do a couple of Jota-style transfers or we won't,
in which case there will need to be a separate thread for more bed-wetting than an incontinence convention in Leakypantsville.

[Drinks Sangria]

Oh wow do you rate Cunha that much?  I rate Raphinha is all (secretly hope we are trying to sign him) and i've hardly seen Cunha play so just curious where his level was.

Yeah, I liked watching him during his loan spell there, albeit the whole team has looked awful since he moved there permanently. Stylistically he's fun to watch, he's quick, creative and has great underlying numbers. Like Doc said, metrics-wise he looks a lot like Raphinha (who I also like) though Cunha's pressures are off the charts, he is a superb presser, just needs to focus it more.

I won't be moaning if we sign Raphinha, he's a good player, but he's 25 soon (I know, no age) whereas Cunha has just turned 22 which is prime age to make a big jump in progression. Factor in that he got 11 G+A in 27 games last season, as a 21 year old in a dreadful side, where he underperformed his xA (the Striker's fault) and I think this guy looks primed to potentially become elite. He also has spent time in Red Bull's set up which is always a massive plus for me, they tend not to fuck around with player's who aren't going to make the grade, even though they did take the business decision to sell him as soon as good money was offered.

Cunha for me is one I'd absolutely take a chance on because I think he'll become a very, very good player.