Topic: The Murder of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter.

[lobsterboy]

Obviously the police shouldn't have killed and avoided killing him, but wasn't George Floyd a scumbag also? Armed robbery of a pregnant woman in her home? or is that lies?

He had been sentenced and served his time for that offence.
The police don't retain the right to murder somebody simply because they are a "scumbag" who has previous.
He was detained after a report he MAY have used a counterfeit $20.00 bill. We will never know if he did as they proceeded to murder him.

[Mumm-Ra]

Putting Spezialo's 3-year old hot take aside (as another aside, this is why RAWK should have like/dislike buttons so not everyone feels the need to quote and rebuke)...

So it turns out Derek Chauvin was engaged in tax fraud for almost seven years before he murdered George Floyd. If someone had pulled their fucking finger out the man might never have been in a position to take Floyd's life.

At the very least he would have been out of a job, maybe even in jail.

The logic doesn't really pan out on this take either. Chauvin owed something like $36k in unpaid taxes. Someone pulling their finger out at the IRS in this case means aggressively auditing normal citizens for relatively small amounts owed. If we were in one of the politics threads we'd all be saying that's the exact thing we don't want them doing, and would rather they went after the rich and corporate tax-dodgers. Just trying to keep a little ideological consistency 

[FlashGordon]

Putting Spezialo's 3-year old hot take aside (as another aside, this is why RAWK should have like/dislike buttons so not everyone feels the need to quote and rebuke)...

The logic doesn't really pan out on this take either. Chauvin owed something like $36k in unpaid taxes. Someone pulling their finger out at the IRS in this case means aggressively auditing normal citizens for relatively small amounts owed. If we were in one of the politics threads we'd all be saying that's the exact thing we don't want them doing, and would rather they went after the rich and corporate tax-dodgers. Just trying to keep a little ideological consistency 

I think public servants and people hired to protect and serve communities should be held to higher standards than normal citizens. Normal citizens don't end up with their knees on the necks of people in the line of duty.

[Mumm-Ra]

I think public servants and people hired to protect and serve communities should be held to higher standards than normal citizens. Normal citizens don't end up with their knees on the necks of people in the line of duty.

So aggressive IRS audits specifically targeting police officers, that's an... interesting suggestion. I'd advise against it

[Red Beret]

The guy engaged in deliberate and systematic tax fraud, and didn't file a return for three years.

He was a public worker, a civil servant. It's not like compliance needed to waste years and resources tracking him down. Failure to file returns alone is a huge red flag, regardless of the amounts. And $36k is hardly small potatoes.

They didn't act because he's a cop. He had to kill a man before action was taken. Action that should have been taken sooner. Even six months would have made a difference.

[Mumm-Ra]

The guy engaged in deliberate and systematic tax fraud, and didn't file a return for three years.

He was a public worker, a civil servant. It's not like compliance needed to waste years and resources tracking him down. Failure to file returns alone is a huge red flag, regardless of the amounts. And $36k is hardly small potatoes.

They didn't act because he's a cop. He had to kill a man before action was taken. Action that should have been taken sooner. Even six months would have made a difference.

$36k over multiple years is the definition of small potatoes. People get behind on their taxes, I've known a few people who didn't file for a few years. It's understood that it will catch up to you at some point and you're going to have to negotiate some sort of settlement. Deliberate and systemic tax fraud? Come on.

You're letting your emotions about this man and the case cloud your logic.  What's your conclusion then - go after all cops who moonlight as cash-in-hand security guards in their free time, and proactively monitor them all in case they are late filing taxes? And if so, if you find any tax issues, get them off the street in case they suffocate someone while being tax delinquent? I'm struggling to follow here.

[FlashGordon]

So aggressive IRS audits specifically targeting police officers, that's an... interesting suggestion. I'd advise against it

So you don't want background checks or current up to date information that police officers are squeaky clean? Interesting suggestion. I'd advise against it.

[FlashGordon]

$36k over multiple years is the definition of small potatoes. People get behind on their taxes, I've known a few people who didn't file for a few years. It's understood that it will catch up to you at some point and you're going to have to negotiate some sort of settlement. Deliberate and systemic tax fraud? Come on.

You're letting your emotions about this man and the case cloud your logic.  What's your conclusion then - go after all cops who moonlight as cash-in-hand security guards in their free time, and proactively monitor them all in case they are late filing taxes? And if so, if you find any tax issues, get them off the street in case they suffocate someone while being tax delinquent? I'm struggling to follow here.

You don't see how patterns of unlawful behaviour over a number of years may be a problem for police officers? I'm struggling to follow here. If it is a case of just falling behind on your taxes then yes, you negotiate a settlement and then move on from there. If there's nothing to hide then why the need for outrage?

The definition of small potatoes is actually a $20 counterfeit note, not $36,000 dollars over three years.

[Mumm-Ra]

["21C or 70F?" SchizoidWeatherMan!]

Considering American salaries, 36K in 3 years IS the definition of small potatoes.

But I digress. 

[TSC]

$36k over multiple years is the definition of small potatoes. People get behind on their taxes, I've known a few people who didn't file for a few years. It's understood that it will catch up to you at some point and you're going to have to negotiate some sort of settlement. Deliberate and systemic tax fraud? Come on.

You're letting your emotions about this man and the case cloud your logic.  What's your conclusion then - go after all cops who moonlight as cash-in-hand security guards in their free time, and proactively monitor them all in case they are late filing taxes? And if so, if you find any tax issues, get them off the street in case they suffocate someone while being tax delinquent? I'm struggling to follow here.

The guys a convicted murderer.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

So aggressive IRS audits specifically targeting police officers, that's an... interesting suggestion. I'd advise against it

Not aggressive but all law enforcement (and others) should have their finances checked randomly.

[FlashGordon]

Not aggressive but all law enforcement (and others) should have their finances checked randomly.

Seems like something absolutely everyone should be able to get behind.

[Chakan]

$36k over 3 years is nothing, they would have offered a settlement amount, they wouldn't have gone for jail time or been fired from him job.

[Red Beret]

He was still under reporting his earnings in 2019 and 2020.He was a criminal before he took a life.  But yeah, it's apparently okay for a guy to break the law for years, just so long as he doesn't murder anyone?  Oh, and he got an additional 13 months for this - they're just letting it run alongside the 22 years he got for killing a man who might still be alive if someone could have been arsed to do their job.

Thank fuck the cop who murdered Sarah Everard at least paid his taxes.

Gimmie a break.

[Red Beret]

You don't see how patterns of unlawful behaviour over a number of years may be a problem for police officers? I'm struggling to follow here. If it is a case of just falling behind on your taxes then yes, you negotiate a settlement and then move on from there. If there's nothing to hide then why the need for outrage?

The definition of small potatoes is actually a $20 counterfeit note, not $36,000 dollars over three years.

Chauvin started this in 2014, so it was over six years he engaged in systematic tax fraud. But apparently it's only a little crime, and we're allowing a emotions to cloud our judgement.

[reddebs]

I don't think I've earned enough to have paid £36000 in taxes in my entire lifetime never mind from a 2nd part time job over a few years.

In fact I know I haven't!

How much do these fuckers earn from their main jobs and why the fuck do they need a 2nd job??

Fuck sake!!

[Chakan]

I don't think I've earned enough to have paid £36000 in taxes in my entire lifetime never mind from a 2nd part time job over a few years.

In fact I know I haven't!

How much do these fuckers earn from their main jobs and why the fuck do they need a 2nd job??

Fuck sake!!

Depends on the state, but here the average policeman earns 50k-70k a year.

[reddebs]

Depends on the state, but here the average policeman earns 50k-70k a year.

Fucking ridiculous.  So how much tax will they pay on that and why would anyone need another job on top of it unless they're on the hook to some serious criminals?

[Lone Star Red]

I don't think I've earned enough to have paid £36000 in taxes in my entire lifetime never mind from a 2nd part time job over a few years.

In fact I know I haven't!

How much do these fuckers earn from their main jobs and why the fuck do they need a 2nd job??

Fuck sake!!

As has been stated multiple times, $36,000, especially over several years, is relatively nothing.

[Boston always unofficial]

Just so this doesn't go to far down a tax hole.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/21/us/irvo-otieno-video-death-virginia/index.html.

[Chakan]

Fucking ridiculous.  So how much tax will they pay on that and why would anyone need another job on top of it unless they're on the hook to some serious criminals?

State tax is around 5.5% federal tax is depending on bracket, 50k-70k is 22%

[WhereAngelsPlay]

$36,000 is a lot of fucking money,a dollar is relatively nothing.

[Chakan]

$36,000 is a lot of fucking money,a dollar is relatively nothing.

Again the IRS locking up people for $36K probably wouldn't happen. They wouldn't get the money that's owed them. They would more than likely go down a settlement route, or take it from future earnings.

[reddebs]

I clearly don't, never have and never will live in anything like the world that you guys live when that kind of money is classed as peanuts.

I'll leave it with he's a fucking nomark murderer that should never be allowed to walk the streets again.

[Lone Star Red]

Let me rephrase what I said. Owing $36,000 in taxes is not necessarily “nothing.” Was saying that having to pay/paid $36,000 in taxes, over several years, is relatively nothing, however. Not sure why that’s bewildering for Deb.

[Chakan]

I clearly don't, never have and never will live in anything like the world that you guys live when that kind of money is classed as peanuts.

I'll leave it with he's a fucking nomark murderer that should never be allowed to walk the streets again.

Depends on expenses really. House, car, insurance, medical, tax, 401k etc etc.

I don't think anyone is disagreeing with your last line.

[Elmo!]

I clearly don't, never have and never will live in anything like the world that you guys live when that kind of money is classed as peanuts.

I'll leave it with he's a fucking nomark murderer that should never be allowed to walk the streets again.

You have to remember it's not just s traight conversion using the exchange rates.

Wages in the US are higher, but cost of living is higher as well so while a pound is about 1.2 dollars, the salaries can't really be compared that easily.

That said, $36k is still a lot of money. Not enough to go to prison for sure. But I would have though police officers should have this sort of thing come up in disclosure/background checks.

["21C or 70F?" SchizoidWeatherMan!]

I clearly don't, never have and never will live in anything like the world that you guys live when that kind of money is classed as peanuts.

I'll leave it with he's a fucking nomark murderer that should never be allowed to walk the streets again.

Cannot compare UK with USA.

The salaries in the states are much higher. Why do you think so many want to move there? I am looking for an opportunity myself .

[Red Beret]

I think the main issue for me was the fact he didn't submit tax returns for four years.

In the UK, if you file your tax return late, it's an automatic £100 fine. Regardless of whether $36k is a lot for the US or not vs the UK, when a fucking police officer doesn't file a return for four years, then that should be triggering a flag. Someone should notice.

It's not about thinly spread resources being targeted appropriately.  There's nothing to investigate. It should be picked up automatically. Something like that should simply grab somebody's attention somewhere.

In any case, I'll leave it there, as I didn't intend on dragging the thread so far off topic.

[Chakan]

While I agree that someone should have noticed, the only people that would notice would be the IRS. Out of lets say 250 million people in the US filling taxes. They would have noticed eventually.

[Statto Red]

Again the IRS locking up people for $36K probably wouldn't happen. They wouldn't get the money that's owed them. They would more than likely go down a settlement route, or take it from future earnings.

It reminds me of an episode of The Simpsons [Bart The Fink] were it's discovered Krusty The Clown, has evaded paying taxes, with a secret illegal offshore account, the IRS call Krusty to a meeting, rather than sending him to jail, they take his money from future earnings [garnish his salary], 50% over 30 years at first, which then became 95% when Krusty mentions he doesn't planning living that long, one of those classic episodes from the golden era of The Simpsons.

So be something like that in real life.

[GreatEx]

If there's 200 million Americans of working age and each of them owed 36k in unpaid taxes, that's 7.2 trillion dollars being stolen from the public. No wonder your country's an  s-h-i-t-h-o-l-e, shithole!

[Chakan]

If there's 200 million Americans of working age and each of them owed 36k in unpaid taxes, that's 7.2 trillion dollars being stolen from the public. No wonder your country's an  s-h-i-t-h-o-l-e, shithole!

What a weird statement.

I mean parts of the US are indeed a shithole and the politics is fucked up, but that's honestly a very odd statement.

It's the same as saying there's 40mil adults in England and they're all tories no wonder England is fucked up.

[GreatEx]

No, I'm just putting the peanuts in context. I don't really think America's a shithole, although it's probably not in the top dozen countries I'd move to.

[A Red Abroad]

It's the same as saying there's 40mil adults in England and they're all tories no wonder England is fucked up.

This ^ could ALSO be (generally) correct.

[Chakan]

No, I'm just putting the peanuts in context. I don't really think America's a shithole, although it's probably not in the top dozen countries I'd move to.

Anything taken to the n degree is gonna look bad.

[Machae]

I also think the reason taxes are a ball ache in America is the faff that goes with it all. The IRS already know what you earn or have earnt (generally speaking), but lobby groups have made it difficult and without these so called specialists, it can be difficult

[Chakan]

I also think the reason taxes are a ball ache in America is the faff that goes with it all. The IRS already know what you earn or have earnt (generally speaking), but lobby groups have made it difficult and without these so called specialists, it can be difficult

Doesn't help that every state has different laws either. Anyway now we're going way off this topic.

[PaulF]

Sorry to keep it off topic, but do all tax payers in the US file a return? Unlike in the UK where I assume most people pay their taxes via paye and don't need to file.  One of the side effects of the means testing of child benefit is the need for far more people to file a return.
Not related to the topic, or really the off topic discussion, just curious. From telly it feels like most Americans have an axxoubtent a lawyer.