Topic: The Murder of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter.

[So… Howard Philips]

to be honest, I have my theories for that but I haven't done anything like the research needed for it to be more than hot air. I'm not sure that every last avenue was exhausted, but I also think that it was right to topple it.

There are some proper historians here who will give that level of insight, I'm always going to be slightly askew from those who wanted those channels pursued further.

Wish I had learnt this history in school, rather than the Basingstoke Canal (much as I enjoyed it at the time)

Sounds as interesting as learning the Plantagenet dynasty off by heart. History becomes far more interesting when you have some life experience.

I could never get my head around why Henry the VIIIth went to so much trouble but learning about the doubts over the Tudor dynasty's right to rule, the role of Wolsey and Cromwell and the European power machinations gives a great background to the development of the U.K.

Even then England distrusted the French, Spanish and Holy Roman Empire - nothing changes.

[John C]

A Superb dissection of the legal issues and argument that the defence made - and The Secret Barrister is brilliant anyway:
https://thesecretbarrister.com/2022/01/06/do-the-verdicts-in-the-trial-of-the-colston-4-signal-something-wrong-with-our-jury-system-10-things-you-should-know/

Great read, thanks for posting that.

[John C]

Ahmaud Arbery’s killers get life

https://edition.cnn.com/us/live-news/ahmaud-arbery-killing-mcmichael-bryan-sentencing/index.html

And excellent news as well.

[Wilmo]

Where did I give any indication of 'venerating' Colston?

You didn't, and I didn't say you were.

[lobsterboy]

This fella explains the outcome far better than me
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lepBFWoHkHI

[thejbs]

Stewart Lee rightly asks if the statue of Jimmy Savile should be put back up with a plaque that explains his sex crimes as part of the Tory retain and explain policy.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/09/how-committed-is-no-10-to-toppling-the-topplers?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

[lobsterboy]

Stewart Lee rightly asks if the statue of Jimmy Savile should be put back up with a plaque that explains his sex crimes as part of the Tory retain and explain policy.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/09/how-committed-is-no-10-to-toppling-the-topplers?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Saville isnt a reminder of how our elite families got their wealth and power though.
Those are the statues that must protected and venerated.
Any questioning of those and people might start questioning them and the royals, the biggest slavers of the lot.

[So… Howard Philips]

Saville isnt a reminder of how our elite families got their wealth and power though.
Those are the statues that must protected and venerated.
Any questioning of those and people might start questioning them and the royals, the biggest slavers of the lot.

Good point. But it's not just the wealthy who benefited from slavery. Liverpool and Bristol wouldn't have such well developed dock systems without it and Tate and Lyle and the large tobacco warehouses and factories wouldn't have existed in Liverpool.

The country as a whole needs to accept its part, albeit minor, rather than just point at the obvious villains.

[lobsterboy]

Most of the north's stately homes are symbols to it. Many funded from it or from government payments in lieu of freeing "their property"
As a nation we only finished paying the slave owners for emancipating their slaves in 2015 (17 billion in todays money)
I think ordinary people probably paid enough, it will have come from our tax after all.
unfortunately, as usual it all went to the wrong people.
A common theme

[Commie Bobbie]

Saville isnt a reminder of how our elite families got their wealth and power though.
Those are the statues that must protected and venerated.
Any questioning of those and people might start questioning them and the royals, the biggest slavers of the lot.

But its a reminder of how the rich and powerful got away with it for so long.

[So… Howard Philips]

Sorry to bother, but do you have any links where I can read a basic write up of this? Not questionning you at all, just not something I've head before and my mind exploded when I read it.

The first I heard about the level of payout was in a David Olusoga documentary a few years ago and I'm sure it was about £8m in early 19th century terms.

What was shocking that it wasn't just the landed gentry who owned slaves but there where syndicates were lower paid workers could own a share in a slave - like a racehorse!

[lobsterboy]

Sorry to bother, but do you have any links where I can read a basic write up of this? Not questionning you at all, just not something I've head before and my mind exploded when I read it.

https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20200205-how-britain-is-facing-up-to-its-secret-slavery-history

[Nobby Reserve]

https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20200205-how-britain-is-facing-up-to-its-secret-slavery-history

 

I knew slave owners were compensated, but had no idea of the scale.

That is scandalous.

[lobsterboy]

 

I knew slave owners were compensated, but had no idea of the scale.

That is scandalous.

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/national-trust-colonialism-slavery/index.html

[So… Howard Philips]

https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20200205-how-britain-is-facing-up-to-its-secret-slavery-history

That's a really interesting read.

I saw the original BBC documentary but that fills in some of the gaps.

[So… Howard Philips]

When I first saw the brief report about racism and the NHS I, wrongly, assumed it was abusive patients who were being racist. It's actually other NHS staff!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60208523

[John C]

The three white men who murdered Black jogger Ahmaud Arbery have been found guilty of all charges in their federal hate crimes trial.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/ahmaud-arbery-trial-verdict-murder-hate-crime-b2020564.html

This is great news.

[Nobby Reserve]

The three white men who murdered Black jogger Ahmaud Arbery have been found guilty of all charges in their federal hate crimes trial.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/ahmaud-arbery-trial-verdict-murder-hate-crime-b2020564.html

This is great news.

A rare bright spot in a shitty news day

[Hazell]

Ahmaud Arbery’s killers get life

https://edition.cnn.com/us/live-news/ahmaud-arbery-killing-mcmichael-bryan-sentencing/index.html

Ahmaud Arbery's killers found guilty on all counts in federal hate crime trial

https://edition.cnn.com/us/live-news/ahmaud-arbery-killing-hate-crimes-verdict/index.html

Just a bit of background: His killers were found guilty of murder in November last year and this more recent trial was about whether Ahmaud Arbery's civil rights were violated and whether he was targeted because of his race. Travis McMichael previously pleaded guilty to this but Ahmaud Arbery's mother wanted the judge to proceed with the trial (they're in for life anyway but would have got cushier prison time). The judge proceeded with the trial and the verdict was announced a few hours ago and they've been found guilty on all counts.

Was following this last week and some of the stuff that came out regarding the three individuals was chilling. I'm not gonna post it here because some people will find the language quite offensive but it's here if anyone wants to read.

https://apnews.com/article/ahmaud-arbery-georgia-race-and-ethnicity-racial-injustice-brunswick-57b92e2bae7142bf713fc7c21ee97fa6

https://text.npr.org/1081257533

I know this kind of stuff exists but to see it laid out like that and to think that kind of stuff goes on all time is pretty scary. Still I'm hoping his family have some small comfort following the verdicts in November and today.

Actually, the whole of initial trial from November is on Youtube and it's extraordinary. Race wasn't discussed during that case (presumably because the judge ruled it couldn't be) but the defence still managed to come across as a bunch of amateurs, from saying they didn't want any more black pastors sitting in the public gallery to comparing that to having people dressed as Colonel Sanders coming into court, to thinking a witness was operating a live drone while they were testifying, to asking for a mistrial every couple of days to one of the defendants taking the witness stand (as I understand, that rarely happens).

It also laid stark the paranoia and discrimination that element of America has - I know race wasn't explicitly mentioned in the earlier trial but watching it, it's hard not to think about it.

[Hazell]

The three white men who murdered Black jogger Ahmaud Arbery have been found guilty of all charges in their federal hate crimes trial.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/ahmaud-arbery-trial-verdict-murder-hate-crime-b2020564.html

This is great news.

A rare bright spot in a shitty news day

Yep, the bizarre thing is that it would never have gone to trial if there hadn't been video evidence and the video evidence was from one of the defendants who recorded it on their phone.

[John C]

Yep, the bizarre thing is that it would never have gone to trial if there hadn't been video evidence and the video evidence was from one of the defendants who recorded it on their phone.

Absolutely, in fact I don't think it was even going to be thoroughly investigated until the video emerged.

[Hazell]

Absolutely, in fact I don't think it was even going to be thoroughly investigated until the video emerged.

It wasn't. One of the murderers was a former police officer and and knew some of the police who initially investigated the crime. From what was described in the initial trial, the whole thing was treated pretty casually until a few months down the line.

[So… Howard Philips]

Meanwhile in the UK, the men who shot a Black female BLM campaigner in the head 3 times get off completely free and the judge says no further evidence is to be presented/accepted. 

It was made clear that the shooting had nothing to do with her activism and the intended target was a resident of the house the party was being held.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-60479678

Unfortunately she was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[Mumm-Ra]

Meanwhile in the UK, the men who shot a Black female BLM campaigner in the head 3 times get off completely free and the judge says no further evidence is to be presented/accepted. 

Not strictly relevant to the thread though is it, it's not like it was white racists who killed her and are being protected by the justice system. I say this because someone could read your post, in the context of this thread, and jump to that conclusion

[Morgana]

It was made clear that the shooting had nothing to do with her activism and the intended target was a resident of the house the party was being held.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-60479678

Unfortunately she was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Not strictly relevant to the thread though is it, it's not like it was white racists who killed her and are being protected by the justice system. I say this because someone could read your post, in the context of this thread, and jump to that conclusion

I stand corrected. I've been vaguely aware of the case since last year; just heard the report again on the BBC that the case collapsed. There was no mention of it being gang violence. Had to go and read up on it just now.

[So… Howard Philips]

Not strictly relevant to the thread though is it, it's not like it was white racists who killed her and are being protected by the justice system. I say this because someone could read your post, in the context of this thread, and jump to that conclusion

Weren’t those cleared Black?

[johnybarnes]

Not strictly relevant to the thread though is it, it's not like it was white racists who killed her and are being protected by the justice system. I say this because someone could read your post, in the context of this thread, and jump to that conclusion

She isn't dead, still receiving treatment in hospital - 'stable but serious condition'.

At least 2 of the people in court are also black - the media enjoyed putting the headline out without actually detailing that it was probably a gang shooting and she caught in the crossfire.

[Mumm-Ra]

Weren’t those cleared Black?

From just reading their names I would guess they weren't white but not certain. I don't think race was a factor, except in clickbait headlines.

[BarryCrocker]

Obviously not on the front page but still something not to be missed.

Three former Minneapolis police officers found guilty of depriving George Floyd of his rights before his death.

Three former Minneapolis police officers have been found guilty of depriving George Floyd of his rights by failing to give aid to the handcuffed black man pinned beneath a colleague's knee.

The jury also found that the conduct of officers Tou Thao, Alexander Kueng and Thomas Lane caused Mr Floyd's death, a finding that can affect the severity of their sentence.

The case hinged on questions about when an officer has a duty to intervene in another's misconduct.

It is a rare instance of police officers being held criminally responsible for a colleague's excessive force.

All three men will remain free on bail, pending their sentencing hearing, which has yet to be scheduled.

Federal prosecutors argued in the US District Court in St Paul that the men knew from their training and from "basic human decency" that they had a duty to help Mr Floyd as he begged for his life before falling limp beneath the knee of the defendants' former colleague, Derek Chauvin.

Mr Floyd's killing sparked protests in cities around the world against police brutality and racism.

Chauvin, who is white, was convicted of Mr Floyd's murder at a separate state trial last year and was sentenced to 22-and-a-half years in prison.

Although race was not part of the state or federal charges, Chauvin's conviction was seen as a landmark rebuke of the disproportionate use of police force against black Americans.

In December, Chauvin pleaded guilty to the federal charge of violating Mr Floyd's rights during the arrest at a Minneapolis intersection on May 25, 2020.

Under Chauvin's plea agreement, federal prosecutors are expected to seek a 25-year sentence to run concurrently with his state prison sentence.

His three former colleagues face years in prison on the federal charges, and are also due to stand trial in Minneapolis in June on state charges of aiding and abetting Mr Floyd's murder.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-25/jury-finds-three-police-officers-guilty-george-floyd-death/100860414

[John C]

Yep, heard that this morning Barry. It's good news about evil people overshadowed by evil people elsewhere isn't it.

[stoa]

Yep, the trial went very much under the radar and I was quite surprised when I read about the verdict today, in the sense that I didn't realise that the trial had even started. The outcome shouldn't be that much of a surprise, if you've followed the Chauvin trial. It is a good thing that they also have been found guilty, but sadly it's just fighting the symptoms. For real change I think a lot more is needed especially in terms of how the police operate in the US...

[Boston always unofficial]

The police shooting at the start of the month says they are not to concerned with changing anything.

[shy_talk]

Michigan USA

Patrick Lyoya executed in cold blood by 'police officer', as is the current state of affairs, Patrick was a black man, and the white officer has not been identified. What I find especially sickening about this case is that somehow* the officers body cam was switched off just before hes pulled his gun and shot the unarmed black man in the back of the head.

Fortunately, someone was filming and has how this murder was commit captured.

A uniform on a criminal does not make a righteous upholder of the law. But until such criminal scum start executing the family members of the ruling elite there is little to any pressure to change anything.

https://time.com/6166709/patrick-lyoya-police-shooting-videos/

[stoa]

Again this seems just that mentality of getting the (suspected) "bad guy" at any cost and a firearm being just another one of the tools in the belt to achieve that. It's completely moronic. The guy got stopped for a dodgy licence plate. There's no fucking need to apprehend him at any cost or even fight him. You have the car, you have the plate, you have whatever is in the car, you even have another guy sitting in the car. Why are you starting to struggle with the driver when you're on your own? It's actually quite stupid, because if those guys in the car were actual criminals looking to kill a cop, surely the passenger of the vehicle had every opportunity to go after the cop and just take him out while he was not paying any attention to him.

The cop should get done for murder, because there was absolutely no fucking justification for using his gun in that situation and you can clearly see that it's not an accident. Absolutely disgusting behaviour, but also a sign of some deeply rooted issue with how policing seems to work in a a lot of places in the US.

[Black Bull Nova]

I would say this is beyond belief but given this is not the first time we have seen this it probably is not. It is likely that these things happened before people walked around with mobile phones and police used body cams but only now we are seeing 'policing' in the USA by some officers in it's raw form.


This appears to be a cold blooded killing of an unarmed man involving just a potential traffic offence, I realise he was resisting arrest but that does not require in any way the execution of the individual, which is pretty clear from the 3rd party videos.

[Machae]

Ukraine attention shows bias against black lives, WHO chief says.

The head of the World Health Organisation (WHO) says the world does not give equal attention to emergencies affecting black and white people.

Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said only a fraction of the help given to Ukraine was given to other humanitarian crises.

Assisting Ukraine is "very important" because it "impacts the whole world", he said.

But Tigray province in Ethiopia, Yemen, Afghanistan or Syria are not receiving the same attention, he said.

"I don't know if the world really gives equal attention to black and white lives," Mr Tedros told a news conference.

"I need to be blunt and honest that the world is not treating the human race the same way. Some are more equal than others. And when I say this, it pains me. Because I see it. Very difficult to accept but it's happening," he added.

Tedros, who is from Tigray, said the United Nations had determined that 100 trucks per day of life-saving humanitarian supplies were needed for the Ethiopian region.

War broke out in Tigray between the TPLF - a group that dominated Ethiopian politics for nearly three decades - and the government in November 2020 following months of simmering tension.

The fighting has seen thousands killed - including civilians - while millions are in desperate need of humanitarian aid, with the federal government accused of hampering relief efforts.

All warring parties have allegedly carried out extrajudicial killings and used sexual violence.

The  UN calls Yemen the world's worst humanitarian crisis.

In Afghanistan, the UN says 24 million people need humanitarian assistance to survive.

Syria has been at civil war for 11 years. Around half a million people have been killed and millions have been displaced in the conflict.

Russia invaded Ukraine 50 days ago on Thursday.

War crimes prosecutors visiting the site of civilian killings in the town of Bucha have called Ukraine a crime scene, while US President Joe Biden has accused Russian forces of committing acts of genocide in the country.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-61101732

[jambutty]

The cop should get done for murder, because there was absolutely no fucking justification for using his gun in that situation and you can clearly see that it's not an accident. Absolutely disgusting behaviour, but also a sign of some deeply rooted issue with how policing seems to work in a a lot of places in the US.

A uniform code of conduct for every police department of every City and every State in the Union needs to be designed and implemented. Recruit, train, and monitor them all and make sure no standards differ.

You can be in charge.

[Boston always unofficial]

I think it's gone beyond a code of conduct.Stop the fetish like worship of the uniform/badge.Stop the militarization of the police.Stop putting them on paid leave and letting them get away with shit .
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/11/nyregion/martin-gugino-buffalo-police-ruling.html.I'd be fucking ashamed  if i was one of the so called good cops and still kept quiet and carried on working with these fuckheads.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

I think it's gone beyond a code of conduct.Stop the fetish like worship of the uniform/badge.Stop the militarization of the police.Stop putting them on paid leave and letting them get away with shit .
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/11/nyregion/martin-gugino-buffalo-police-ruling.html.I'd be fucking ashamed  if i was one of the so called good cops and still kept quiet and carried on working with these fuckheads.

It's strangely comedic that the part of the US population that bang on and on about being the most free (definitely not) nation on the planet are the same part that love having jackboots in their Police force.

They're also the biggest bunch of cry-arses when said jackboots come knocking on their doors.

[jambutty]

It's strangely comedic that the part of the US population that bang on and on about being the most free (definitely not) nation on the planet are the same part that love having jackboots in their Police force.

They're also the biggest bunch of cry-arses when said jackboots come knocking on their doors.

Who are these alleged jackboot lovers?