Topic: Chasing the Title

[RedBootsTommySmith]

The first thing i look at when the fixtures are released (even before the derby) is the run in.
Said it to loads of reds that i thought 'if' we are within a couple of points away from City with 10 games to go that we would win it.
The City away is where I'd say it was lost, real fine margins where lady luck eluded us for once..Sane in off the post,Mane out off the post & yeah the Kompany decision is a game & now a title changer.
I still can't bring myself to congratulate them, the FFP investigation is shockingly slow & if that proves City have done fuckall wrong i will be the first to hold my hands up & congratulate them.
If however they have breached & flaunted the rules again i certainly will be banging a big drum for more than just another paltry fine with the majority suspended again.
The PL should certainly be taking action too, clubs are docked/demoted for breaches on the opposite side of the scale..why should it be different at the other?

The City away was a real 'six pointer'. Sane's shot rebounds in, Mane's rebounds out. The other way around & we finish Champions with the 100 points and an undefeated season. And yet the pundits/ talking heads are questioning if we'll ever beat City, Jurgen needs to win a trophy, etc.. During the match commentary I was listening to, co-commentator Graham LeSaux said the only way Liverpool can beat City was to get Pep in next year. Unbelievable, really. But that's the kind of narrative we're going to hear over the next three weeks, I'm telling you. Best thing for Jurgen to do is give the lads a week off, then take the squad to Spain for warm-weather training and stay the f##k away from British press/ TV.
.

[Sharado]

I might get pelters for this like but I think the mane shot/11mm off the line moment against city is being really overblown. There was only 20 minutes gone in the game at that stage. Yeah I'd like to back us to win if we went 1-0 up like but city are clearly a very good side and they were at home, there's absolutely every chance they could have got back into the game from there.

[moloch]

I might get pelters for this like but I think the mane shot/11mm off the line moment against city is being really overblown. There was only 20 minutes gone in the game at that stage. Yeah I'd like to back us to win if we went 1-0 up like but city are clearly a very good side and they were at home, there's absolutely every chance they could have got back into the game from there.

The fact that we did not lose any game this season when leading makes me think otherwise..

[aoaaron]

Its a learning experience. In reality if we'd played for a draw against City, we might have won the title. I know its not our style but maybe sometimes we need to change it up.

Given the resources City have, its incredible we've matched them.

[Vladi Legend]

Liverpool P38 W30 D7 L1  PTS67
Man City P38 W32 D2 L4  PTS66

This is how the final Premier League table would've stood on the old two points for a win system. It's just the second time since it's inception in 1981, that the three points for a win rule has affected the destination of the title.

Before anyone starts, no, I'm not bitter. Just pointing out the stats that prove how close it really was. What a season we've had (and are still having)! We've come a long way these last couple of years and to push this mega rich, multi talented, City side, who ran away with it last year, to the final day, especially when everybody else was miles behind, makes me proud. Now let's focus on tbe small matter of a European Cup Final in Madrid.

[OOS]

Never thought of that.Then again I don't care, I hate the Charity Shield, the biggest nothing game of all if you ask me. I don't think Liverpool have to take part, any team from the top 6 can be asked if the runners up knock the invitation back.

We've won one thing since 2006. I'll take whatever comes our way. 

[SteveZissou]

I haven't seen this argument before, and I am 100% sure I'm right no matter what you say:

Liverpool were the best team in the Premier League this season, and one of the main reasons Man City got the title is that the points system is faulty. Look at the number of games they lost. 3 points for a win and 1 point for a draw is not the right way to go about it.
We were unlucky not to win a number of games which became draws but got a point. City lost a couple of games. We lost one game, and even in that game we were unlucky to lose. No doubt in my mind that we were better through the season.

[Bobinhood]

Been working on a new song, think its pretty good

We finished second with 97 points
its true
we finished second with 97 points
Its true
we would have won in any season in history except the last two
Its true
Manchester City's owners are a bunch of far too rich cheating oil state fund and slave employing falsehoods outed on the internet nasty piece of work sons of bitches c-nts and killers that should be relegated to league two
Oh Liverpool we love you

Just rolls off the tongue that fully expect to hear it in Madrid 

[Red-Soldier]

Back in the early days of this thread I was very confident we’d win. I think i said that avoiding defeat to City would be important (captain obvious) but either way I thought 95 points would certainly win it.

We reached that, and then some. Don’t think anyone could have predicted the second half of the season they’d have.

I did 

But seriously, if you look at the results of this City team over the past two seasons then it shouldn't be much of a shock that they won all their remaining games.  They've won 64/76 matches over the past two seasons.

The dropped points leading up to the game at the Etihad were an anomoly.  Draws and losses are an anomoly for this team.  If you look at it statistically, there was more of a chance them winning all the remaining games than dropping points.

I said that we'd both end up winning all the rest of our games, and I was right.  We were playing the better football over the past 9 games, looking in greater form, but the two teams are so far ahead of everyone else, it was obvious to me that it would play out the way it did.  I was still hoping, but not expecting.

The match against them was the deciding factor for me, they had to win that game in order to have a chance, all we needed was not to lose, and we would've done it.

Very small margains when you are talking about two sides this good and so much better than the rest.

[Red-Soldier]

Liverpool P38 W30 D7 L1  PTS67
Man City P38 W32 D2 L4  PTS66

This is how the final Premier League table would've stood on the old two points for a win system. It's just the second time since it's inception in 1981, that the three points for a win rule has affected the destination of the title.

That's why it's a huge incentive to go for a win, rather than settle for a draw.

[Felch Aid]

Would it be fair to say that teams from Europe do not fear City and will have a go unlike many premier teams who end up losing by sticking 10 players behind the ball. PSG are not feared in Europe either. So called elite British managers frightened to have a go?

[Roughie Scouse]

Would it be fair to say that teams from Europe do not fear City and will have a go unlike many premier teams who end up losing by sticking 10 players behind the ball. PSG are not feared in Europe either. So called elite British managers frightened to have a go?

I think there could be something in that.

[slotmachine]

A story from today on the oil cheats:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/13/sports/manchester-city-champions-league-uefa.html

[sms1986]

Yeah, it's being discussed in the City thread, would be nice to see them banned if it happens but they're not winning it any time soon anyway.

[drmick]

Liverpool P38 W30 D7 L1  PTS67
Man City P38 W32 D2 L4  PTS66

This is how the final Premier League table would've stood on the old two points for a win system. It's just the second time since it's inception in 1981, that the three points for a win rule has affected the destination of the title.

Before anyone starts, no, I'm not bitter. Just pointing out the stats that prove how close it really was. What a season we've had (and are still having)! We've come a long way these last couple of years and to push this mega rich, multi talented, City side, who ran away with it last year, to the final day, especially when everybody else was miles behind, makes me proud. Now let's focus on tbe small matter of a European Cup Final in Madrid.

Which was the other season?

[kasperoff]

A story from today on the oil cheats:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/13/sports/manchester-city-champions-league-uefa.html

Just what we need. City focussed solely on the PL without CL distraction. 

[sms1986]

Just what we need. City focussed solely on the PL without CL distraction.

It would hurt their transfers with no CL and some of their current players wouldn't be happy.

[Carra23]

Just what we need. City focussed solely on the PL without CL distraction. 

No CL Football as well as VAR coming in. City will implode. 

[God's Left Peg]

It would hurt their transfers with no CL and some of their current players wouldn't be happy.

It also taints their so-called "achievements". They can't afford this sort of reputation. They become pariahs, the lepers of Europe, the very antithesis of the image they're trying to paint of themselves. Makes "Pep" look a right c*nt. Good.

[LiamG]

I might get pelters for this like but I think the mane shot/11mm off the line moment against city is being really overblown. There was only 20 minutes gone in the game at that stage. Yeah I'd like to back us to win if we went 1-0 up like but city are clearly a very good side and they were at home, there's absolutely every chance they could have got back into the game from there.

We should of beaten them at home really, next season we need to make sure we do that

[west_london_red]

Just what we need. City focussed solely on the PL without CL distraction. 

Saint Pep of Catalonia would have to leave wouldn’t he? His holier then thou reputation would be severely impacted if it was found he was working for cheats (not to mention human rights abusers)

[thejbs]

It would hurt their transfers with no CL and some of their current players wouldn't be happy.

None would be happy as they likely have a no CL wage clause in their contracts.

[OOS]

I think there could be something in that.

City could have said the same about us. We didn't drop a point against any team with a British manager this season. However, Hodgson beat City. So there is nothing to do with 'Elite British managers' unless it applies to us too?

[keyop]

A story from today on the oil cheats:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/13/sports/manchester-city-champions-league-uefa.html

There's a reminder in that article just how artificial their success is - in 2002 they were playing in the second tier of English football, a year after we'd won the treble of Uefa cup, League cup and FA cup. The Arabs could quite literally have picked any club out of the hat and and made them champions with their billions, which is why the praise for City for any achievements is so empty. They can taunt their own City neighbours all they like, but at least Utd's success was built and earned. If Uefa and FFP are going to have any respect as an organisation (and as an approach to making the modern game fairer), then they'll finally show City up for what they are.

It makes our achievements and progress this season even more remarkable in context, especially considering the huge gap to 3rd place and how everyone else fell away. A title is still a title at the end of the day, but it would feel dirty if we won it under similar circumstances, and if we can overhaul them next season it will make the achievement so much sweeter knowing the head start they had before a ball was even kicked.

[Fruity]

Just what we need. City focussed solely on the PL without CL distraction. 

That's exactly what i thought. Would rather the ban be the following season. We are hitting our peak - so wouldn't want them concentrating solely on winning the league 3 times in a row.

[Fruity]

I might get pelters for this like but I think the mane shot/11mm off the line moment against city is being really overblown. There was only 20 minutes gone in the game at that stage. Yeah I'd like to back us to win if we went 1-0 up like but city are clearly a very good side and they were at home, there's absolutely every chance they could have got back into the game from there.

I think in tight games it's really important to get the first goal. No doubt City could still have beaten us but at that point we were 7 points clear and if we were leading in that game than they could have panicked and got sloppy - and it would have suited us to sit back and counter. We were playing really well at that point in the game.

For me personally that is the game that lost us the league. City had drawn 1 and lost 2 of the previous 4 games. Even if we drew they would have been deflated as they really needed the win to get back in it. But the fact they won and cut our lead down to 4 points gave them the impetus. I am not saying they would have imploded had they lost or drawn but they would have faced an uphill battle. That win was a massive morale boost for them and bar Newcastle they won every game after that. They way they celebrated when they won was like they had beat the current champions - it was a massive game for them and a massive turnaround in their form.

[12Kings]

The timing of this news, after they win the league... pulled a few strings there

[redmark]

Would it be fair to say that teams from Europe do not fear City and will have a go unlike many premier teams who end up losing by sticking 10 players behind the ball. PSG are not feared in Europe either. So called elite British managers frightened to have a go?

Many? There were only five British managers in the PL at the start of the season. Those five teams finished 14th, 15th, 16th, 17th and 18th. Mostly because they're small clubs with limited budgets and limited players. And yet one of them did inflict one of City's few defeats; something not managed by Klopp, Mourinho, Emery or Pocchetino (in the league) this season.

Infact your point could be argued the other way: the managers to inflict defeat on Guardiola in the league were Rafa, Hodgson, Puel and Sarri. The first three, at least, focus on shape, defensive organisation and hitting on the counter. It's not realistic for most PL clubs to try and play City the way we did in 2017/18. Palace, Newcastle and Leicester offer a more realistic blueprint.

For the upper 90s not to become the norm I think requires a couple or more of the rest of the big six to get over their 'transitional periods' and become competitive enough to challenge City (and ourselves) in games against them, if not immediately consistently over a season. We (and Spurs) also need to do better against them in our own games. The 'rest' did better against City than against us this season, so can't be held responsible for the destination of the title; nor can teams of players who've spent much of their careers in the championship be expected to go toe to toe too successfully with teams assembled by the hundreds of millions.

[Vladi Legend]

Which was the other season?

1994-95. Man United would've pipped Blackburn to the title on goal difference thanks to Jamie Redknapp's last minute free kick on the two points for a win system. Doesn't bear thinking about does it?!

I actually sat down the other week and did the maths from every league table from the beginning of the 80's onwards (I'll get my anorak ).

[Redcap]

The timing of this news, after they win the league... pulled a few strings there

The UEFA FFP Regulations only apply to European competition. The FA has its own version of the FFP which is less stringent. I also don't think City are under investigation under the FA's version.

Furthermore I think the relevant period of the investigations are past seasons, rather than the current season.

I think it would be marvelous if they did get a European ban though. At least it would show there's some amount of justice in football, even if the threshold of proof for malfeasance is so high that you literally need a smoking gun, as it appears there is against City.

I don't think a two year + ban is likely, but even a one year ban would do them a fair amount of damage, both financially and in terms of their ability to attract/retain players.

But the still more interesting question would be the extent to which their entire business model could be sustained. That is to say, if UEFA finds that supplementing revenue with inflated sponsorship agreements and such is against the rules, to what extent is that ruling going prospectively apply to their future business? And without the revenue padding, are they able to afford the same nice things that they can now?

[RedBootsTommySmith]

The UEFA FFP Regulations only apply to European competition. The FA has its own version of the FFP which is less stringent. I also don't think City are under investigation under the FA's version.

How can they not apply the same standard to Manchester City v Birmingham City if a breach is proven. Unless Man City has better lawyers.

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/birmingham-city-points-deduction-ffp-15180503

[Redcap]

How can they not apply the same standard to Manchester City v Birmingham City if a breach is proven.

The Financial Fair Play Rules introduced by the EFL in 2012 were modelled on the Financial Fair Play Regulations of UEFA. Although there are some differences between those rules their objectives are broadly similar.

https://www.efl.com/contentassets/c79763f8e2174f4fb87200a371abf5fa/190322---efl-v-bcfc---decision---final.pdf
Emphasis added

So in a nutshell, the UEFA FFP Regulations don't govern anything that happens in England, except in reference to English clubs' participation in UEFA club competitions.

Instead, the relevant rules for the Birmingham case are the EFL FFP Rules, as noted above.

The Premier League has its own version of this again, described in this BBC article. 

The PL version allows clubs to make a larger loss (£105m) than what UEFA's FFP allows (£38m), which means, depending on how City was in breach and how much it was in breach by of the UEFA FFP, they not be in breach of the PL rules.

[loon the red]

11mm
That was how close it was

Sent from my Nokia 8.1 using Tapatalk

[demain]

I disagree that the title was lost during the game at the Etihad. Far from it, we were still very much in command of the title race despite that loss.

We lost because we drew at Goodison Park and Old Trafford, while City didn't. Those were high-profile away derbies where we felt that taking a single point would be enough, as opposed to the points dropped against West Ham and Leicester.

Those string of consecutive draws came at a vital period in the title race and handed City the belief that they will retain the title. Guardiola was almost prepared to concede the title after they lost at Newcastle, but we allowed them to claw back the points.

[Blue Coop]

Well what a close race, I think it’s been a fantastic season from both sides and it was a shame that at some point one of them had to lose - unfortunately this time it was you but I agree with many that it feels like this squad you have now is ready to challenge over a number of years, and any side that does that will eventually win the title.

I’ve seen people try and pinpoint where the title was lost, and I don’t think you can ever say that on 97 points but if I had to give my view; I think it was Leicester. Not because of its impact on you, but because of its impact on City. We’d just lost to Newcastle and were about to head into an Arsenal, Everton, Chelsea run of fixtures - heads had gone. The gap had gone from 4 to 5 but it felt like a big step forwards all of a sudden, more so than beating you directly a few games earlier. You win that and we don’t win 14 on the bounce in my view.

Anyway, I wouldn’t begrudge you a CL so best of luck and see you next year for the same again!

[mikeb58]

I disagree that the title was lost during the game at the Etihad. Far from it, we were still very much in command of the title race despite that loss.

We lost because we drew at Goodison Park and Old Trafford, while City didn't. Those were high-profile away derbies where we felt that taking a single point would be enough, as opposed to the points dropped against West Ham and Leicester.

Those string of consecutive draws came at a vital period in the title race and handed City the belief that they will retain the title. Guardiola was almost prepared to concede the title after they lost at Newcastle, but we allowed them to claw back the points.

Sorry, but this seems a pointless excerise to me, all ifs, buts and maybes and taking certain games into isolation to see where it went 'wrong'

In my opinion 97 points means we 'lost' nothing along the way. We took 4 points from Everton (our only derby of the season!) and 4 points from Man Utd, both more than acceptable returns.

City can point to the games they lost, all 4 of them of their drawn games and say if only this or that happened, they missed a pen at Anfield, that alone in the context of the Title race was an opportunity missed far bigger than we can point to.

97 points is incredible, to lose once all season with the least goals conceded, there is no way on Earth we lost, conceded or threw anything anything away with an achievement like that. I don't have a single regret how we played our part in the Title race, City just happened to pip us by one point with a run of wins at the end that nobody expected.

That run was out of our hands, frustratingly we where powerless to stop it, but we took the chase to the last day which took some doing.Overall, we could simply do no more, than amass a record number of points, that cruelly just wasn't enough this time round.

[Redcap]

Sorry, but this seems a pointless excerise to me, all ifs, buts and maybes and taking certain games into isolation to see where it went 'wrong'

In my opinion 97 points means we 'lost' nothing along the way. We took 4 points from Everton (our only derby of the season!) and 4 points from Man Utd, both more than acceptable returns.

City can point to the games they lost, all 4 of them of their drawn games and say if only this or that happened, they missed a pen at Anfield, that alone in the context of the Title race was an opportunity missed far bigger than we can point to.

97 points is incredible, to lose once all season with the least goals conceded, there is no way on Earth we lost, conceded or threw anything anything away with an achievement like that. I don't have a single regret how we played our part in the Title race, City just happened to pip us by one point with a run of wins at the end that nobody expected.

That run was out of our hands, frustratingly we where powerless to stop it, but we took it the chase to the last day which took some doing.Overall, we could simply do no more, than amass a record number of points, that cruelly just wasn't enough this time round.

This.

[red_Mark1980]

We took 96 points from the 18 other teams
City took 94 points from the 18 other teams.

That's all anyone should be looking at

[duvva 💅]

We took 96 points from the 18 other teams
City took 94 points from the 18 other teams.

That's all anyone should be looking at

We were brilliant and gave everything is all anyone should be looking at

[red_Mark1980]

We were brilliant and gave everything is all anyone should be looking at

Absolutely, I'm only putting that there for all these no mark clubs. City won the league. No one won it for them