Author Topic: Chasing the Title  (Read 1076984 times)

Offline MindGuerrillas

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16920 on: May 19, 2019, 01:31:50 PM »
They were but I wouldn't fancy Leicester or Burnley away too much with our second-string side.

Leicester and Burnley played second-string sides too though.

Leicester's team was Ward, Simpson, Söyüncü, Maguire, Fuchs, Ghezzal, Choudhury, Iborra, Ndidi, Gray, Iheanacho. I'd fancy our chances against that no matter what team we put out. City only beat them on pens.

Burnley made 7 changes in the FA Cup game at the Etihad.

Their 2 cup runs couldn't have been any easier for them.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 01:51:40 PM by MindGuerrillas »

Offline RedorRed

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16921 on: May 19, 2019, 01:47:45 PM »
Leicester and Burnley played second-string sides too though.

Leicester's teams was Ward, Simpson, Söyüncü, Maguire, Fuchs, Ghezzal, Choudhury, Iborra, Ndidi, Gray, Iheanacho. I'd fancy our chances against that no matter what team we put out. City only beat them on pens.

Burnley made 7 changes in the FA Cup game at the Etihad.

Their 2 cup runs couldn't have been any easier for them.
And they won the Premier by 11.7mm....... 11.8mm the other way and we’d have won the title as invincibles

Offline PoetryInMotion

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16922 on: May 19, 2019, 01:49:06 PM »
In fairness, that’s not what he had said. He compared the treble vs the CL. And for that he’s right. How many teams have won a treble, any treble, and how many times? We ourselves have 5 (soon to be 6) Big Years, and how many trebles? Same with United. City didn’t have enough history of being strong to make the statistics.

It's similar to the invincible vs more points than invincible without being invincible. Which is greater?

There are many who say the invincible season of Arsenal - and maybe there's an argument for having that over 93 points (I'm not saying either way), but beyond 95 and above points, it's only going one way and I've held that opinion for a long time. People even compared invincible season to 100 points season of City and claimed that invincible is still better and the main argument they come up with is that how many times it has been achieved/repeated?

I respectfully disagree. I think Man City's 100 points is greater (without considering their off the pitch issues with their club). You can never assess the difficulty of a competition by number of wins. For example, take the European Cup/Champions League and UEFA Cup/Europa League. Yes, there is a 16 years gap between the initiation of these two tournaments, but the EC/CL has been won 13 times by one team, then 7 times by another team, then 5 times by 3 sides whereas the UC/EL has been won 5 times by 1 team and 3 times by 4 teams. Does that mean the UC/EL is harder to win since there are no dominating sides as in the EC/CL? Europa League is harder than Champions League, right?

That is absolutely the wrong way to assess which is the harder one, the number of times it has been won. The better way, which is also arbitrary, is to see who is trying harder to achieve what.

Nobody really sets out at the start of a season to be invincible. I'm not saying it's not hard, it is, but when something is not really a target, how can you compare or assess with other achievements which are legit targets which teams are doing their best to achieve? All teams are trying to get to the most points, the invincible thing only becomes a 2nd target when a teams goes through 2/3rds of a season intact and can go for it without jeopardizing their main target, that is to win the title or get most points. Otherwise, if you remove most points as a target, then a lot of sides in history would've taken the approach to get to 15+ draws or something to achieve invincible status but getting a lot lesser points than they could. By increasing the number of teams attempting to be invincible (by removing the primary target of securing more points), we can easily get more teams to achieve the invincible status. It's like I want to do A and I'm trying my best to do A, so I'm getting to A more. I want to do A more than I want to do B, so when B is a sideshow, it doesn't mean that getting B is harder the getting A.

The same is with the treble and the CL. I respect the League title, but beyond that about the domestic cups, it's a matter of how many sides are arsed with these cups to try and win them. And coming to that stage also depends on the draw in the cups and how easy/hard the journey is. The only times teams try and make that a target is when that does not jeopardize your chances of achieving bigger targets. I mean Wenger won plenty of FA Cups, but were their fans satisfied? There were rumbles everywhere because they were poor in Europe, and they were just going Top 4 in the league. The moment they dropped out of Top 4, the cups failed to be consolation for them, they just weren't arsed anymore. It simply explains that these cups are not really primary targets of top teams, they are an afterthought. Once you see through that, it's clear that this is about the Premier League vs the Champions League and we know which one is the Bigger Club Competition and which one is the more challenging one.

See how much efforts Man City put in to win the CL and still came short by a mile, whereas with their treble, the two cups were piss easy with the routes, the League was their biggest challenge and that too only because we were around that territory. So, they were a consistent team over the season, but they didn't quite hit the peak to win the CL.

It's clear that Guardiola is still bitter that his team is not in the CL Final.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 01:56:21 PM by PoetryInMotion »

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16923 on: May 19, 2019, 01:57:21 PM »
And they won the Premier by 11.7mm....... 11.8mm the other way and we’d have won the title as invincibles

What utterly bizarre logic
Trent is pretty poor at free kicks. Said it for a long time. One decent free kick a few years ago and the commentators think he's Beckham

Offline You think you'd learn by now

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16924 on: May 19, 2019, 02:00:27 PM »
Doubt they are arsed about us to be honest. They are enjoying their trophies wins while we are waiting for ours in 7 years.

Some people moan about City being obsessed with us, but I'm starting to think it's a bit mutual.

Nope, the day you see our players and manager go out of their way to mention them whilst celebrating a victory of our own is the day you'd have a point.

The day you see our fans celebrating and singing about City in a match where we aren't playing City is the day you'd be right. The day you see one of our own fans rant about City after a cup final win in where City weren't involved is the day you'd be right.


Offline Kenny Red

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16925 on: May 19, 2019, 03:24:30 PM »
Nope, the day you see our players and manager go out of their way to mention them whilst celebrating a victory of our own is the day you'd have a point.

The day you see our fans celebrating and singing about City in a match where we aren't playing City is the day you'd be right. The day you see one of our own fans rant about City after a cup final win in where City weren't involved is the day you'd be right.



Couldn't have put it better. Beyond our team showing respect I havent heard a single peep from our club. Why? Because they havent got into heads, whereas we are most certainly in theirs without a single word being said.
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Offline Clayton Bigsby

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16926 on: May 19, 2019, 03:36:03 PM »
Couldn't have put it better. Beyond our team showing respect I havent heard a single peep from our club. Why? Because they havent got into heads, whereas we are most certainly in theirs without a single word being said.

I agree. Wish this would extend to the fans.

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16927 on: May 19, 2019, 03:39:08 PM »
Doubt they are arsed about us to be honest. They are enjoying their trophies wins while we are waiting for ours in 7 years.

Some people moan about City being obsessed with us, but I'm starting to think it's a bit mutual.

They are deffo obsessed and bothered by us.

The official club twitter account mocks us the day they win the league.
The players sing about us on the plane home the day they win the League.
They do the domestic treble and the manager instead refers to the CL
A supporter bursts into the press area at Wembley and rants that they will talk about Salah and not them in the next days papers
The only new song they have is one we started in the UK and is all about us in Kiev (and other disgusting references)
Sky do interviews outside the ground and its "Fuck off you Scouse c*nts"

We talk about the cheating and what we need to do next season to beat them to the title.

Offline Jm55

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16928 on: May 19, 2019, 04:31:27 PM »
I remember about 10 years or so ago we used to have debates on here about the Mancs being obsessed by us, and whether the obsession was mutual etc. In that example I think anyone saying the hatred on both sides was mutual had a fairly valid point as I absolutely despised them (and still do), although we rarely engaged in songs about them when not playing them but they obviously regularly did about us (must be a Manchester thing.)

With City however it’s a moot point. Nobody gives a fuck other than the fact they’ve stopped us not just winning, but in reality walking to the title. As a club they’re a fucking joke and that title celebration with their fans just highlights it.

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16929 on: May 19, 2019, 05:03:06 PM »
I agree. Wish this would extend to the fans.

We've fuck all to do for 2 weeks. They're the main news. Everything they do and say is basically about us. We're allowed to take the piss.

Offline You think you'd learn by now

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16930 on: May 19, 2019, 05:11:01 PM »
We've fuck all to do for 2 weeks. They're the main news. Everything they do and say is basically about us. We're allowed to take the piss.

This. We can only analyze the game so much

But confusing what we're talking on about here and what their players and manager are saying are far two different things.

Offline Mr_Shane

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16931 on: May 19, 2019, 05:34:35 PM »
I think more about Man Utd than Man City. I visit the Man Utd thread on the general discussion forum, much more often than I do the Man City thread. I don't think I am obsessed though. I just enjoy making fun of  Man Utd and see the 1990s version of us in them.  :wave

Offline mrantarctica

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16932 on: May 19, 2019, 06:14:53 PM »
Couldn't have put it better. Beyond our team showing respect I havent heard a single peep from our club. Why? Because they havent got into heads, whereas we are most certainly in theirs without a single word being said.

It's because their season is over. They set out to win the champions league, and they won't be there (again). They achieved their other objectives so fair dues to them. They have a great squad which is what you get when you get a good manager and give him 500m to spend. Hopefully our lads are fully focussed on bringing home silverware with our remaining game of the season.

Offline Mr_Shane

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16933 on: May 19, 2019, 06:30:41 PM »
I think for Klopp and for me at least, its not so much about winning titles and cups but more so about forming feel-good memories which will last.

Winning titles and cups does that, but so does getting the result we need against Barcelona. Viewed in isolation, its just a game against a top side which we won. Did we win a cup or title as a direct result of that victory? No. Yet the celebrations and the aftermath of that victory, especially for those at Anfield will be remembered for the rest of everyones lives.

The same goes for the 4-3 win against Dortmund and all those last minute winners this season against Everton, Spurs and the last minute equalizer against Chelsea. I even remember that 5-4 win against Norwich in a season when we did not win anything :)

I feel that for City, its more so about winning the titles.

« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 10:04:33 PM by Mr_Shane »

Offline Al 666

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16934 on: May 19, 2019, 08:26:58 PM »
I agree. Wish this would extend to the fans.

Yes we should just bury our heads in the sand and allow them to continue to cheat their way to trophies. We should ignore the fact that they breached FFP. We should ignore their players having their image rights owned by Abu Dhabi so they can have a lower wage bill. We should ignore their players not being available for drug testing. We should ignore City making illegal payments to agents and breaching rules regarding young players.

In short we should say nothing to see here and legitimise their cheating.
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16935 on: May 19, 2019, 08:43:20 PM »
What utterly bizarre logic

I'm not sure about his logic but surely his maths are right. 11.8mm, the ball would have been over then line, a draw......etc.

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16936 on: May 19, 2019, 08:56:42 PM »

snip...

Good post, mate, and I agree with a lot of that. most comparisons seems to be like apples and oranges. We were beaten in only one game this season, but we did not win the PL. In the end, that's what matters. And it's not onl;y which team is better, but which had Lady Luck on their side. I disagree with the general statement that the best team always wins over 38 games. For closely matched teams, luck is the tie-breaker. We had a share of good fortune and misfortune, and so did City. There is no objective way to judge how many points for each team were influenced by luck, but there's no denying that luck is important. We may not have situations like Everton home work for us next season. Or we'll have more of those. Who knows...
 
As for Pep, yea, we're in his head. I don't think that he's obsessed by us, but utterly surprised that he couldn't shake us off by April. And the comment may have been prompted by the general media expectation that he'd win all competitions. Whatever. I don't really care. He made a comment that I see as awkward, but not wrong and not disrespectful.
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Offline fucking appalled

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16937 on: May 19, 2019, 08:59:28 PM »
I'm not sure about his logic but surely his maths are right. 11.8mm, the ball would have been over then line, a draw......etc.

It happened four months before the end of the season, pretty much halfway into the game. We lost the title because the FA and Premier League has essentially allowed a team to use a real life FM cheat code.
Trent is pretty poor at free kicks. Said it for a long time. One decent free kick a few years ago and the commentators think he's Beckham

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16938 on: May 19, 2019, 09:13:41 PM »
In fairness, that’s not what he had said. He compared the treble vs the CL. And for that he’s right. How many teams have won a treble, any treble, and how many times? We ourselves have 5 (soon to be 6) Big Years, and how many trebles? Same with United. City didn’t have enough history of being strong to make the statistics.

How many teams have had the resources of a country spent on them as a PR exercise (apart from PSG of course).

And we've won two trebles mate. The 2001 treble being about as shard as you can get because we literally had to play every game possible.

And I know Joe Fagan is from before the invention of football in 1992 but he won our first treble of the European Cup, League and League Cup back in 1984.

And just as a reminder - this is Man City's run to the FA Cup Final: Rotherham, Burnley, Newport County, Swansea and Brighton.

It's hard to see how they managed to overcome those powerhouses of modern football. We just had to overcome PSG, Napoli, Red Star, Bayern Munich and Barcelona to get to the European Cup Final...

Despite all the advantages, Pep has failed in Europe twice now with City, just like he did with Bayern.
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Offline So... Howard Phillips

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16939 on: May 19, 2019, 09:14:15 PM »
It happened four months before the end of the season, pretty much halfway into the game. We lost the title because the FA and Premier League has essentially allowed a team to use a real life FM cheat code.

Can't argue with that.

Offline Al 666

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16940 on: May 19, 2019, 09:51:23 PM »
How many teams have had the resources of a country spent on them as a PR exercise (apart from PSG of course).

And we've won two trebles mate. The 2001 treble being about as shard as you can get because we literally had to play every game possible.

And I know Joe Fagan is from before the invention of football in 1992 but he won our first treble of the European Cup, League and League Cup back in 1984.

And just as a reminder - this is Man City's run to the FA Cup Final: Rotherham, Burnley, Newport County, Swansea and Brighton.

It's hard to see how they managed to overcome those powerhouses of modern football. We just had to overcome PSG, Napoli, Red Star, Bayern Munich and Barcelona to get to the European Cup Final...

Despite all the advantages, Pep has failed in Europe twice now with City, just like he did with Bayern.

Well said Al.

It is not just the FA Cup in the League Cup they faced Oxford, Fulham, Leicester, Burton and Chelsea so to win both domestic Cups they only had to face two teams from the top half of the Premier League. Leicester and Chelsea were the only two teams from the top half of the table. To make it worse both games ended in a stalemate with City winning both games on penalties.

Even in the Champions League they went out to the first decent side they faced. As for Guardiola it is not twice he has failed at City in the Champions League he also lost to Monaco in his first season.

Guardiola hasn't made it to a Champions League final for 8 years despite managing Barca, Bayern and Abu Dhabi. To put that into perspective Klopp is looking forward to his 3rd Champions League final since 2013. Then again you tend not to be drawn against Burton Albion in a Champions League semi.
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16941 on: May 19, 2019, 10:51:07 PM »
How many teams have had the resources of a country spent on them as a PR exercise (apart from PSG of course).

And we've won two trebles mate. The 2001 treble being about as shard as you can get because we literally had to play every game possible.

And I know Joe Fagan is from before the invention of football in 1992 but he won our first treble of the European Cup, League and League Cup back in 1984.

And just as a reminder - this is Man City's run to the FA Cup Final: Rotherham, Burnley, Newport County, Swansea and Brighton.

It's hard to see how they managed to overcome those powerhouses of modern football. We just had to overcome PSG, Napoli, Red Star, Bayern Munich and Barcelona to get to the European Cup Final...

Despite all the advantages, Pep has failed in Europe twice now with City, just like he did with Bayern.
No disagreement with the disproportionate financial power of some teams (Chelsea, City) and the top pickings at their disposal. And City are sort of expected to win due to the above. And yes, City got the rub of the green with the teams they faced. And yes, they failed miserably when facing a decent opponent. But still, there is no factual argument that contradicts that a treble of any kind is more difficult than winning the Champions Cup / Champions League. We had 2 trebles, 5 CL cups. United has 1 treble, 3 CL cups.
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Offline Mr_Shane

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16942 on: May 19, 2019, 11:18:49 PM »
Those are different trebles though. I think there are two different comparisons. You could look at the number of challenging games to win a treble or the total number of games you need to win a treble. If you count the number of games you need to play and the number of games you need to win, then winning City's treble is harder than than winning the CL.

If on the other hand you count the number of challenging games, then more work needs to go into the comparison. What is a "challenging game" ?

Offline Al 666

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16943 on: May 19, 2019, 11:31:18 PM »
No disagreement with the disproportionate financial power of some teams (Chelsea, City) and the top pickings at their disposal. And City are sort of expected to win due to the above. And yes, City got the rub of the green with the teams they faced. And yes, they failed miserably when facing a decent opponent. But still, there is no factual argument that contradicts that a treble of any kind is more difficult than winning the Champions Cup / Champions League. We had 2 trebles, 5 CL cups. United has 1 treble, 3 CL cups.

I would say the recent run of Celtic disproves your theory. They are on for a treble of trebles yet are a million miles away from winning the Champions League. That for me shows that the difficulty in winning a treble is hugely dependant on the teams you have to face.

Add in the fact that a lot of teams rest players for the cup games and it lessens the achievement of City in winning the two domestic cups. In a situation in which teams are rotated for Cup games the team that can field a £300m+ reserve side has a ridiculous advantage. 

The Champions League by definition is the elite competition and far too often Guardiola's teams come up short.
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16944 on: May 19, 2019, 11:51:07 PM »
They had the easiest cup run in the history of the league, especially in the FA Cup.

All trebles aren't the same, and this one certainly isn't the greatest.

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16945 on: May 20, 2019, 12:31:39 AM »
They had the easiest cup run in the history of the league, especially in the FA Cup.

All trebles aren't the same, and this one certainly isn't the greatest.

Agreed.

I think it's fair enough that winning a treble is hard. It's also fair enough that winning the league this season was particularly hard because they had a tough opponent in us. But they had a breeze in the other two competitions.

Likewise, if we had beaten Schalke, Porto, Lyon and United to win the CL, you would say that it was an easier tournament to win than what we had.

Moreover, winning the domestic treble is usually made harder by the fact that the domestic league challengers are likely to put a lower level of priority on domestic cup competitions, so it's difficult to compare actual difficulties in that context.

I don't know why we're getting ourselves in a knot trying to figure out what's harder to do though. Guardiola is trying to defend not winning the CL (or even making the final) for a third year in a row at City and an 8th year in a row in his career. If we win the CL, we're not going to waste any time wondering if it would have been better if we won the domestic treble instead.

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16946 on: May 20, 2019, 01:34:00 AM »
He's said that to cover his own arse, he's already admitted he'll only be remembered based on what happens in the CL whilst he's at City. He's pissed he's not getting the attention he imagined they would get after winning 3 trophies.

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16947 on: May 20, 2019, 01:38:46 AM »
I would say the recent run of Celtic disproves your theory. They are on for a treble of trebles yet are a million miles away from winning the Champions League. That for me shows that the difficulty in winning a treble is hugely dependant on the teams you have to face.

Add in the fact that a lot of teams rest players for the cup games and it lessens the achievement of City in winning the two domestic cups. In a situation in which teams are rotated for Cup games the team that can field a £300m+ reserve side has a ridiculous advantage. 

The Champions League by definition is the elite competition and far too often Guardiola's teams come up short.
Come on, let's not move the goal posts. Treble in England. Otherwise, I can point out to a number of clubs in the lower leagues that dominate the respective domestic scene, but never even pass the group stage in the CL.
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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16948 on: May 20, 2019, 01:41:11 AM »
They had the easiest cup run in the history of the league, especially in the FA Cup.

All trebles aren't the same, and this one certainly isn't the greatest.
And that's the key to the treble, IMHO, or more specifically, the two domestic cups. The top teams field fringe players in the early rounds on the FA cup, and practically until the final rounds of the League Cup. So, once in a while, the stars align... But the league title is far more difficult to attain.
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Offline Al 666

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16949 on: May 20, 2019, 02:28:12 AM »
Come on, let's not move the goal posts. Treble in England. Otherwise, I can point out to a number of clubs in the lower leagues that dominate the respective domestic scene, but never even pass the group stage in the CL.

Except the majority of the teams City faced in the Cups were the equivalent of the teams who participate in your so called lower leagues. Basically it doesn't matter what League you compete in if you get drawn against second rate teams. Winning both Cups whilst only playing two top half Premier League teams whilst beating neither over 90 minutes is nothing to write home about.
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16950 on: May 20, 2019, 02:53:31 AM »
Except the majority of the teams City faced in the Cups were the equivalent of the teams who participate in your so called lower leagues. Basically it doesn't matter what League you compete in if you get drawn against second rate teams. Winning both Cups whilst only playing two top half Premier League teams whilst beating neither over 90 minutes is nothing to write home about.
Again, I agree about the quality of the teams City faced. And even City's fringe players are capable of beating almost anyone in England. I get that and I agree 100%. Nonetheless, a treble is a great achievement. In sure you were playing a different tune in 1984, in which case we won the league with 80 points, and in 2001 when we didn't even win the league. I know I was.
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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16951 on: May 20, 2019, 12:46:05 PM »
They're hardly the first team to have an easy domestic cup draw.

In 2001 the only Premier League side we faced in the League Cup was Chelsea in the third round. After that we had a third-tier side and three second-tier sides (including Birmingham in the final).

These games are only 'easy' to City because their squad depth dwarves everyone else's in the country.

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16952 on: May 20, 2019, 01:17:35 PM »
Personally I think that the domestic Cups have become massively devalued because of the money available for success in the Premier League and the Champions League. You now get the majority of sides making wholesale changes for the Cup games. Liverpool are the only Club domestically who can compete head to head with City but we simply haven't taken the domestic cups seriously.

Add in the ridiculous advantage City's cheating gives them in terms of squad depth and for me I don't think you can compare previous trebles with the one City have completed. Firstly it was a far more level playing field in terms of squad depth and secondly teams used to take the Cups far more seriously than they do now. It is now expected that City will win the domestic cups in a pretty similar way to how Celtic are expected to win the cups in Scotland. 
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16953 on: May 20, 2019, 01:26:27 PM »
They're hardly the first team to have an easy domestic cup draw.

In 2001 the only Premier League side we faced in the League Cup was Chelsea in the third round. After that we had a third-tier side and three second-tier sides (including Birmingham in the final).

These games are only 'easy' to City because their squad depth dwarves everyone else's in the country.

No, they're easy because they played Rotheram,Newport County and Swansea in the run in. They also played a 15th and 17th placed relegation contenders in Burnley and Brighton who's priorities aren't in the cups but staying up. The only top half opposition they played was in the final itself.

Man City, Manchester United, Chelsea,Arsenal, Tottenham Hotspur, or Liverpool Bloody Football Club, should all be winning those games and had any other side won the FA cup with that run in, we'd be saying the same, it would have been the easiest path for a top side to a trophy.

They had a ''harder'' run in for the league cup as they played Chelsea in the final, and the only other top half opposition was Leicester. That's not mentioning that they played Oxford,Burton Albion and relegated Fulham.


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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16954 on: May 20, 2019, 02:15:01 PM »
No, they're easy because they played Rotheram,Newport County and Swansea in the run in. They also played a 15th and 17th placed relegation contenders in Burnley and Brighton who's priorities aren't in the cups but staying up. The only top half opposition they played was in the final itself.

Man City, Manchester United, Chelsea,Arsenal, Tottenham Hotspur, or Liverpool Bloody Football Club, should all be winning those games and had any other side won the FA cup with that run in, we'd be saying the same, it would have been the easiest path for a top side to a trophy.

They had a ''harder'' run in for the league cup as they played Chelsea in the final, and the only other top half opposition was Leicester. That's not mentioning that they played Oxford,Burton Albion and relegated Fulham.



I’m sorry but my reaction to this and Als argument is ‘so what’

It’s all looks horribly small time to be honest
We all enter competitions, they have random draws and we play the games - it’s been the same for tens of years and no one has completed a domestic treble or got the league points they’ve gotten.
The off pitch problems are very real with what they’ve done but trying to minimize their on pitch achievements based on the football played or fixtures looks silly
« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 02:19:47 PM by JackWard33 »

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16955 on: May 20, 2019, 02:24:09 PM »
I know history n all that but think one of the domestic cups should be sacked off personally
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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16956 on: May 20, 2019, 02:30:26 PM »
In fairness? Nah - let's enjoy the grumpy defensive vibe he's giving out. It's the one chink in their financially-doped armour.

I bet you that given the choice between winning the champion's league and completing a historic domestic treble, Pep will go for winning the champion's league in a heartbeat

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16957 on: May 20, 2019, 02:32:03 PM »
I’m sorry but my reaction to this and Als argument is ‘so what’

It’s all looks horribly small time to be honest
We all enter competitions, they have random draws and we play the games - it’s been the same for tens of years and no one has completed a domestic treble or got the league points they’ve gotten.
The off pitch problems are very real with what they’ve done but trying to minimize their on pitch achievements based on the football played or fixtures looks silly

I am not minimizing what they did in the league for the last two years, we're talking about the difficulty of winning the treble, and if you're analyzing who they're playing with the players they've got, then them winning the treble is hardly surprising. Hence my reaction to them winning it is so bloody what the same reaction you have to my post.

We all enter competitions and have random draws, but the fact remains that it's the easiest path to a final they could have gotten, considering their quality and who they played. That's just a fact. That's why I said all trebles aren't equal. So if someone is wondering why no one is arsed about them winning the treble, that's one of the reasons HENCE why I posted what I posted. If I was just ranting without any reason behind and not pertaining to what we were discussing two pages back then you'd have a point.




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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16958 on: May 20, 2019, 02:49:56 PM »
I don't think anyone is denying that their draws were easy or favourable.

What is bizarre and small-time is that everyone is acting like it's the first time any side has ever had an easy run in a cup competition. As I pointed out, our League Cup route in 2001 was extremely favourable. The FA Cup route was pretty kind too with the exception of Leeds away; I mean we played a relegated second-tier side in the quarter-final and a mid-table third-tier side in the semi-final! Did I give a fuck then though? No. To win both cups is hugely impressive regardless of who you face.

Arsenal only five years ago won the FA Cup by beating Middlesbrough, Southend, Brighton, Sunderland, Sheff Utd and Hull. It happens. Crying about it when we can't even get past the 3rd or 4th round most years isn't a great look.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 02:52:13 PM by LallanaInPyjamas »

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16959 on: May 20, 2019, 02:57:02 PM »
Personally I think that the domestic Cups have become massively devalued because of the money available for success in the Premier League and the Champions League. You now get the majority of sides making wholesale changes for the Cup games. Liverpool are the only Club domestically who can compete head to head with City but we simply haven't taken the domestic cups seriously.

It comes down to strategy, Al. Our domestic cup record under FSG is shockingly bad and I would suggest that is because they have a) generally preferred to load the wages into a core of say 14-16 players, rather than spreading it more thinly across 18-20 and b) made it clear to our managers that the cups are not a priority.