Author Topic: Chasing the Title  (Read 1076988 times)

Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16800 on: May 13, 2019, 06:49:44 PM »
Liverpool P38 W30 D7 L1  PTS67
Man City P38 W32 D2 L4  PTS66

This is how the final Premier League table would've stood on the old two points for a win system. It's just the second time since it's inception in 1981, that the three points for a win rule has affected the destination of the title.



That's why it's a huge incentive to go for a win, rather than settle for a draw.

Offline Felch Aid

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16801 on: May 13, 2019, 06:58:44 PM »
Would it be fair to say that teams from Europe do not fear City and will have a go unlike many premier teams who end up losing by sticking 10 players behind the ball. PSG are not feared in Europe either. So called elite British managers frightened to have a go?

Offline Roughie Scouse

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16802 on: May 13, 2019, 07:06:58 PM »
Would it be fair to say that teams from Europe do not fear City and will have a go unlike many premier teams who end up losing by sticking 10 players behind the ball. PSG are not feared in Europe either. So called elite British managers frightened to have a go?

I think there could be something in that.
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Offline slotmachine

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16803 on: May 13, 2019, 07:11:51 PM »

Offline sms1986

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16804 on: May 13, 2019, 07:26:07 PM »
Yeah, it's being discussed in the City thread, would be nice to see them banned if it happens but they're not winning it any time soon anyway.

Offline drmick

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16805 on: May 13, 2019, 07:28:01 PM »
Liverpool P38 W30 D7 L1  PTS67
Man City P38 W32 D2 L4  PTS66

This is how the final Premier League table would've stood on the old two points for a win system. It's just the second time since it's inception in 1981, that the three points for a win rule has affected the destination of the title.

Before anyone starts, no, I'm not bitter. Just pointing out the stats that prove how close it really was. What a season we've had (and are still having)! We've come a long way these last couple of years and to push this mega rich, multi talented, City side, who ran away with it last year, to the final day, especially when everybody else was miles behind, makes me proud. Now let's focus on tbe small matter of a European Cup Final in Madrid.

Which was the other season?

Offline kasperoff

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16806 on: May 13, 2019, 08:21:33 PM »
A story from today on the oil cheats:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/13/sports/manchester-city-champions-league-uefa.html

Just what we need. City focussed solely on the PL without CL distraction. 

I think the same, can't stand him, but if you could have a £1million pound cheque or steve bruces head hollowed out and filled with pound coins which would you have?

Offline sms1986

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16807 on: May 13, 2019, 08:36:26 PM »
Just what we need. City focussed solely on the PL without CL distraction.

It would hurt their transfers with no CL and some of their current players wouldn't be happy.

Offline Carra23

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16808 on: May 13, 2019, 08:58:51 PM »
Just what we need. City focussed solely on the PL without CL distraction. 



No CL Football as well as VAR coming in. City will implode.  :)
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Offline God's Left Peg

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16809 on: May 13, 2019, 09:01:43 PM »
It would hurt their transfers with no CL and some of their current players wouldn't be happy.

It also taints their so-called "achievements". They can't afford this sort of reputation. They become pariahs, the lepers of Europe, the very antithesis of the image they're trying to paint of themselves. Makes "Pep" look a right c*nt. Good.
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Offline LiamG

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16810 on: May 13, 2019, 09:06:42 PM »
I might get pelters for this like but I think the mane shot/11mm off the line moment against city is being really overblown. There was only 20 minutes gone in the game at that stage. Yeah I'd like to back us to win if we went 1-0 up like but city are clearly a very good side and they were at home, there's absolutely every chance they could have got back into the game from there.

We should of beaten them at home really, next season we need to make sure we do that

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16811 on: May 13, 2019, 09:09:26 PM »
Just what we need. City focussed solely on the PL without CL distraction. 



Saint Pep of Catalonia would have to leave wouldnít he? His holier then thou reputation would be severely impacted if it was found he was working for cheats (not to mention human rights abusers)

Offline thejbs

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16812 on: May 13, 2019, 09:10:12 PM »
It would hurt their transfers with no CL and some of their current players wouldn't be happy.

None would be happy as they likely have a no CL wage clause in their contracts.

Offline OOS

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16813 on: May 13, 2019, 09:48:04 PM »
I think there could be something in that.

City could have said the same about us. We didn't drop a point against any team with a British manager this season. However, Hodgson beat City. So there is nothing to do with 'Elite British managers' unless it applies to us too?
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Offline keyop

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16814 on: May 13, 2019, 09:52:29 PM »
A story from today on the oil cheats:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/13/sports/manchester-city-champions-league-uefa.html

There's a reminder in that article just how artificial their success is - in 2002 they were playing in the second tier of English football, a year after we'd won the treble of Uefa cup, League cup and FA cup. The Arabs could quite literally have picked any club out of the hat and and made them champions with their billions, which is why the praise for City for any achievements is so empty. They can taunt their own City neighbours all they like, but at least Utd's success was built and earned. If Uefa and FFP are going to have any respect as an organisation (and as an approach to making the modern game fairer), then they'll finally show City up for what they are.

It makes our achievements and progress this season even more remarkable in context, especially considering the huge gap to 3rd place and how everyone else fell away. A title is still a title at the end of the day, but it would feel dirty if we won it under similar circumstances, and if we can overhaul them next season it will make the achievement so much sweeter knowing the head start they had before a ball was even kicked.
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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16815 on: May 13, 2019, 10:05:07 PM »
Just what we need. City focussed solely on the PL without CL distraction. 



That's exactly what i thought. Would rather the ban be the following season. We are hitting our peak - so wouldn't want them concentrating solely on winning the league 3 times in a row.
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Offline Fruity

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16816 on: May 13, 2019, 10:18:57 PM »
I might get pelters for this like but I think the mane shot/11mm off the line moment against city is being really overblown. There was only 20 minutes gone in the game at that stage. Yeah I'd like to back us to win if we went 1-0 up like but city are clearly a very good side and they were at home, there's absolutely every chance they could have got back into the game from there.

I think in tight games it's really important to get the first goal. No doubt City could still have beaten us but at that point we were 7 points clear and if we were leading in that game than they could have panicked and got sloppy - and it would have suited us to sit back and counter. We were playing really well at that point in the game.

For me personally that is the game that lost us the league. City had drawn 1 and lost 2 of the previous 4 games. Even if we drew they would have been deflated as they really needed the win to get back in it. But the fact they won and cut our lead down to 4 points gave them the impetus. I am not saying they would have imploded had they lost or drawn but they would have faced an uphill battle. That win was a massive morale boost for them and bar Newcastle they won every game after that. They way they celebrated when they won was like they had beat the current champions - it was a massive game for them and a massive turnaround in their form.
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Offline 12Kings

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16817 on: May 13, 2019, 10:30:46 PM »
The timing of this news, after they win the league... pulled a few strings there

Offline redmark

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16818 on: May 13, 2019, 11:41:14 PM »
Would it be fair to say that teams from Europe do not fear City and will have a go unlike many premier teams who end up losing by sticking 10 players behind the ball. PSG are not feared in Europe either. So called elite British managers frightened to have a go?
Many? There were only five British managers in the PL at the start of the season. Those five teams finished 14th, 15th, 16th, 17th and 18th. Mostly because they're small clubs with limited budgets and limited players. And yet one of them did inflict one of City's few defeats; something not managed by Klopp, Mourinho, Emery or Pocchetino (in the league) this season.

Infact your point could be argued the other way: the managers to inflict defeat on Guardiola in the league were Rafa, Hodgson, Puel and Sarri. The first three, at least, focus on shape, defensive organisation and hitting on the counter. It's not realistic for most PL clubs to try and play City the way we did in 2017/18. Palace, Newcastle and Leicester offer a more realistic blueprint.

For the upper 90s not to become the norm I think requires a couple or more of the rest of the big six to get over their 'transitional periods' and become competitive enough to challenge City (and ourselves) in games against them, if not immediately consistently over a season. We (and Spurs) also need to do better against them in our own games. The 'rest' did better against City than against us this season, so can't be held responsible for the destination of the title; nor can teams of players who've spent much of their careers in the championship be expected to go toe to toe too successfully with teams assembled by the hundreds of millions.


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Offline Vladi Legend

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16819 on: May 13, 2019, 11:42:17 PM »
Which was the other season?

1994-95. Man United would've pipped Blackburn to the title on goal difference thanks to Jamie Redknapp's last minute free kick on the two points for a win system. Doesn't bear thinking about does it?!

I actually sat down the other week and did the maths from every league table from the beginning of the 80's onwards (I'll get my anorak ;)).
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Offline Redcap

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16820 on: May 14, 2019, 12:17:58 AM »
The timing of this news, after they win the league... pulled a few strings there

The UEFA FFP Regulations only apply to European competition. The FA has its own version of the FFP which is less stringent. I also don't think City are under investigation under the FA's version.

Furthermore I think the relevant period of the investigations are past seasons, rather than the current season.

I think it would be marvelous if they did get a European ban though. At least it would show there's some amount of justice in football, even if the threshold of proof for malfeasance is so high that you literally need a smoking gun, as it appears there is against City.

I don't think a two year + ban is likely, but even a one year ban would do them a fair amount of damage, both financially and in terms of their ability to attract/retain players.

But the still more interesting question would be the extent to which their entire business model could be sustained. That is to say, if UEFA finds that supplementing revenue with inflated sponsorship agreements and such is against the rules, to what extent is that ruling going prospectively apply to their future business? And without the revenue padding, are they able to afford the same nice things that they can now?
« Last Edit: May 14, 2019, 12:27:46 AM by Redcap »

Offline RedBootsTommySmith

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16821 on: May 14, 2019, 01:56:26 AM »

The UEFA FFP Regulations only apply to European competition. The FA has its own version of the FFP which is less stringent. I also don't think City are under investigation under the FA's version.


How can they not apply the same standard to Manchester City v Birmingham City if a breach is proven. Unless Man City has better lawyers.

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/birmingham-city-points-deduction-ffp-15180503
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Offline Redcap

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16822 on: May 14, 2019, 02:18:53 AM »
How can they not apply the same standard to Manchester City v Birmingham City if a breach is proven.


Quote from: Birmingham decision

The Financial Fair Play Rules introduced by the EFL in 2012 were modelled on the Financial Fair Play Regulations of UEFA. Although there are some differences between those rules their objectives are broadly similar.

https://www.efl.com/contentassets/c79763f8e2174f4fb87200a371abf5fa/190322---efl-v-bcfc---decision---final.pdf
Emphasis added

So in a nutshell, the UEFA FFP Regulations don't govern anything that happens in England, except in reference to English clubs' participation in UEFA club competitions.

Instead, the relevant rules for the Birmingham case are the EFL FFP Rules, as noted above.

The Premier League has its own version of this again, described in this BBC article

The PL version allows clubs to make a larger loss (£105m) than what UEFA's FFP allows (£38m), which means, depending on how City was in breach and how much it was in breach by of the UEFA FFP, they not be in breach of the PL rules.


Offline loon the red

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16823 on: May 14, 2019, 03:19:34 AM »
11mm
That was how close it was

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16824 on: May 14, 2019, 06:34:25 AM »
I disagree that the title was lost during the game at the Etihad. Far from it, we were still very much in command of the title race despite that loss.

We lost because we drew at Goodison Park and Old Trafford, while City didn't. Those were high-profile away derbies where we felt that taking a single point would be enough, as opposed to the points dropped against West Ham and Leicester.

Those string of consecutive draws came at a vital period in the title race and handed City the belief that they will retain the title. Guardiola was almost prepared to concede the title after they lost at Newcastle, but we allowed them to claw back the points.
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Offline Blue Coop

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16825 on: May 14, 2019, 06:53:04 AM »
Well what a close race, I think itís been a fantastic season from both sides and it was a shame that at some point one of them had to lose - unfortunately this time it was you but I agree with many that it feels like this squad you have now is ready to challenge over a number of years, and any side that does that will eventually win the title.

Iíve seen people try and pinpoint where the title was lost, and I donít think you can ever say that on 97 points but if I had to give my view; I think it was Leicester. Not because of its impact on you, but because of its impact on City. Weíd just lost to Newcastle and were about to head into an Arsenal, Everton, Chelsea run of fixtures - heads had gone. The gap had gone from 4 to 5 but it felt like a big step forwards all of a sudden, more so than beating you directly a few games earlier. You win that and we donít win 14 on the bounce in my view.

Anyway, I wouldnít begrudge you a CL so best of luck and see you next year for the same again!

Offline mikeb58

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16826 on: May 14, 2019, 07:22:15 AM »
I disagree that the title was lost during the game at the Etihad. Far from it, we were still very much in command of the title race despite that loss.

We lost because we drew at Goodison Park and Old Trafford, while City didn't. Those were high-profile away derbies where we felt that taking a single point would be enough, as opposed to the points dropped against West Ham and Leicester.

Those string of consecutive draws came at a vital period in the title race and handed City the belief that they will retain the title. Guardiola was almost prepared to concede the title after they lost at Newcastle, but we allowed them to claw back the points.

Sorry, but this seems a pointless excerise to me, all ifs, buts and maybes and taking certain games into isolation to see where it went 'wrong'

In my opinion 97 points means we 'lost' nothing along the way. We took 4 points from Everton (our only derby of the season!) and 4 points from Man Utd, both more than acceptable returns.

City can point to the games they lost, all 4 of them of their drawn games and say if only this or that happened, they missed a pen at Anfield, that alone in the context of the Title race was an opportunity missed far bigger than we can point to.

97 points is incredible, to lose once all season with the least goals conceded, there is no way on Earth we lost, conceded or threw anything anything away with an achievement like that. I don't have a single regret how we played our part in the Title race, City just happened to pip us by one point with a run of wins at the end that nobody expected.

That run was out of our hands, frustratingly we where powerless to stop it, but we took the chase to the last day which took some doing.Overall, we could simply do no more, than amass a record number of points, that cruelly just wasn't enough this time round.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2019, 07:48:44 AM by mikeb58 »
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Offline Redcap

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16827 on: May 14, 2019, 07:27:24 AM »
Sorry, but this seems a pointless excerise to me, all ifs, buts and maybes and taking certain games into isolation to see where it went 'wrong'

In my opinion 97 points means we 'lost' nothing along the way. We took 4 points from Everton (our only derby of the season!) and 4 points from Man Utd, both more than acceptable returns.

City can point to the games they lost, all 4 of them of their drawn games and say if only this or that happened, they missed a pen at Anfield, that alone in the context of the Title race was an opportunity missed far bigger than we can point to.

97 points is incredible, to lose once all season with the least goals conceded, there is no way on Earth we lost, conceded or threw anything anything away with an achievement like that. I don't have a single regret how we played our part in the Title race, City just happened to pip us by one point with a run of wins at the end that nobody expected.

That run was out of our hands, frustratingly we where powerless to stop it, but we took it the chase to the last day which took some doing.Overall, we could simply do no more, than amass a record number of points, that cruelly just wasn't enough this time round.


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Offline red_Mark1980

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16828 on: May 14, 2019, 08:00:03 AM »
We took 96 points from the 18 other teams
City took 94 points from the 18 other teams.

That's all anyone should be looking at
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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16829 on: May 14, 2019, 08:04:39 AM »
We took 96 points from the 18 other teams
City took 94 points from the 18 other teams.

That's all anyone should be looking at

We were brilliant and gave everything is all anyone should be looking at
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Offline red_Mark1980

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16830 on: May 14, 2019, 08:06:37 AM »
We were brilliant and gave everything is all anyone should be looking at

Absolutely, I'm only putting that there for all these no mark clubs. City won the league. No one won it for them
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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16831 on: May 14, 2019, 08:13:00 AM »
Absolutely, I'm only putting that there for all these no mark clubs. City won the league. No one won it for them
Cool, wasnít a dig or anything. Itís a forum and I guess itís here for people to discuss why we didnít win the league if they want. For me itís done, canít be changed, they put in an incredible effort and that should be celebrated, but time to start looking forward to the European Cup Final for me.
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Offline Red Being

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16832 on: May 14, 2019, 08:46:04 AM »
Also, the truth is not as our rival fans are implying out of their bitterness. And for once, Shankly may have been wrong when he said 2nd is nothing. Because this '2nd' is one people are not going to forget. It may not show in the statistics, but not even our rival fans will forget this race and the fact that we ran a financially doped team to their limit. Seriously, no one is going to forget this even if they wanted to.

Offline redtel

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16833 on: May 14, 2019, 09:18:30 AM »
To get 97 points and still reach a CL final makes it all the more incredible.

City didn't have those 2 semi-finals,played within 6 days for us,with an incredibly difficult away match in between them. This at the back end of a long season.

Spurs lost their way in the league towards the end due to CL and fell over the finishing line in 4th on 71 points.

At one time Spurs had closed to within 4 or 5 points when we had 61 and for us to stretch that gap to 26 points is a really good indicator of how our team performed.

I thought we looked very tired in the second half on Sunday and Trent was knackered. How he found the energy to set up Mane for the coup de grace speaks volumes.

We go again. This team will be strengthened as this was only the first step. We suffered illness after the warm weather break and at times lacked quality cover for those suffering.

Offline gamble

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16834 on: May 14, 2019, 09:38:26 AM »
We took 96 points from the 18 other teams
City took 94 points from the 18 other teams.

That's all anyone should be looking at

Good way to look at it. I am still coming terms with the new baseline to win the PL. 97points+ is such a difficult task to replicate.

We are looking at huge winning streaks too as a norm for the champions. Itís going to be so tough

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16835 on: May 14, 2019, 09:50:59 AM »
Good way to look at it. I am still coming terms with the new baseline to win the PL. 97points+ is such a difficult task to replicate.

We are looking at huge winning streaks too as a norm for the champions. Itís going to be so tough

It does however assume that other teams won`t improve which they probably will. The remaining "top 6" clubs will look at this and realise that the bar has been set higher and will have to spend and set targets accordingly. If Spurs keep Pochettino and spend money they will probably improve. Same for Arsenal and dare I say, United. That makes it more likely they will start to take points in key games against City and also us.

I cannot envisage, other than perhaps next year, that the PL will become like La Liga where 2 teams consistently over the course of many years completely obliterate the competition. There is too much money spread around the PL for that to happen.

Let's hope UEFA also clip City's wings and punish them for their clear financial cheating.
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Offline nayia2002

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16836 on: May 14, 2019, 09:53:33 AM »
We took 96 points from the 18 other teams
City took 94 points from the 18 other teams.

That's all anyone should be looking at

in other words to win the league we should/must take at least 3 points from city
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Offline redmark

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16837 on: May 14, 2019, 10:10:28 AM »
in other words to win the league we should/must take at least 3 points from city
Two points would have been fine. We need to aim to at least split the points with them.
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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16838 on: May 14, 2019, 10:19:43 AM »
VAR will have a say in the league next year. We might get some penatlies next time.

Offline nayia2002

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #16839 on: May 14, 2019, 10:24:12 AM »
Two points would have been fine. We need to aim to at least split the points with them.

we took one point off them this season, defo needed a(one) win against them this year not 2 draws(2points as you mentioned)

next season might need 6 points??!!
who are you to judge the life i live?
i know im not perfect-and i dont live to be,
but before you start pointing fingers make
sure your hands are clean!.