Topic: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Well said. And first approach to improve it should be to split VAR duties from PGMOL

Yeah & make the new VAR overlords equal in power to the ref. Don't even need to use football people. There are plenty of above board professionals and members of the public who can easily learn the laws of the game.

[JRed]

Just get a few Rawkites to do the VAR. Problem solved.

[Dench57]

BBC Sport understands Liverpool, plus three other unnamed clubs, are not in favour of scrapping VAR.

clearly haven't been reading the corruption thread

[JRed]

clearly haven't been reading the corruption thread

They have. They just understand it’s not the system at fault but the people using it.

[Fromola]

clearly haven't been reading the corruption thread

Laughable that the morons at the club are the first club (and only one so far) to brief that they're backing VAR. Just gives a stick to bash the club with and accusations of 'big clubs get all the decisions'. But then these fuckwits thought the ESL was a good idea, so good luck getting them to read the room. Nobody likes VAR, fans hate it.

We've had a litany of bad VAR decisions this season, whether it's backing up awful refereeing decisions or overturning the ref.

Not just in the Premier League either. But yeah 'hit me harder PGMOL/VAR/Webb please'. Laughable that we're doing their bidding for them after this season.

[rob1966]

They have. They just understand it’s not the system at fault but the people using it.

I've only watched a bit of the TAW interview, but Jurgen mentions the refs, especially how the whole bus were gobsmacked at the Rodri handball not being given.

The club also know, without VAR, we'll get fucked over even more. Every tight offside you can guarantee we get flagged and opposition teams don't. Cody's would have been ruled out the other night and Villas given for example.

[JRed]

I've only watched a bit of the TAW interview, but Jurgen mentions the refs, especially how the whole bus were gobsmacked at the Rodri handball not being given.

The club also know, without VAR, we'll get fucked over even more. Every tight offside you can guarantee we get flagged and opposition teams don't. Cody's would have been ruled out the other night and Villas given for example.

Exactly. The officials would know they could do whatever they want ( they pretty much do now anyway) but they wouldn’t even have to try and gaslight anyone.
The main problem is the lack of accountability. If they give inexplicable decisions they should be demoted to non-league for a month. Or docked a months pay. That would fucking stop them. Then again, would be difficult to dock them their Abu Dhabi and Saudi payments.

[rob1966]

Laughable that the morons at the club are the first club (and only one so far) to brief that they're backing VAR. Just gives a stick to bash the club with and accusations of 'big clubs get all the decisions'. But then these fuckwits thought the ESL was a good idea, so good luck getting them to read the room. Nobody likes VAR, fans hate it.

We've had a litany of bad VAR decisions this season, whether it's backing up awful refereeing decisions or overturning the ref.

Not just in the Premier League either. But yeah 'hit me harder PGMOL/VAR/Webb please'. Laughable that we're doing their bidding for them after this season.

Do you honestly think we'll get better treatment without VAR?

[BoRed]

Kavanagh gets a chance to say goodbye to Jurgen on Sunday. They also saved the best for last with Coote on VAR.

[rob1966]

Kavanagh gets a chance to say goodbye to Jurgen on Sunday. They also saved the best for last with Coote on VAR.

Surprised they didn't give the gig to Tierney - maybe they feared Kloppo would nut him

[farawayred]

Surprised they didn't give the gig to Tierney - maybe they feared Kloppo would nut him

Why would Kloppo risk a red card? He can miss the next game. 

[Fromola]

Do you honestly think we'll get better treatment without VAR?

Do the club think doing PGMOL's bidding will do us any favours?

Ultimately VAR is just one extra way to screw us. If it was actually overturning bad decisions then I could understand wanting to keep it, but time and time again it doesn't. Instead we get the double whammy of bad refs and bad VAR decisions (by the same refs). Therefore it's useless and just screws us more.

I've only watched a bit of the TAW interview, but Jurgen mentions the refs, especially how the whole bus were gobsmacked at the Rodri handball not being given.

The club also know, without VAR, we'll get fucked over even more. Every tight offside you can guarantee we get flagged and opposition teams don't. Cody's would have been ruled out the other night and Villas given for example.

The VAR upheld all the ref/lino decisions the other night. They just spent a lot longer looking at the Gakpo one than the Villa one.

But that's why i'd be in favour of automated offsides (assuming the process is quick and accurate). Does anyone really trust the VAR system on tight offsides since it's come in? 5+ minutes messing about and ultimately guessing. Once offsides are in the hands of AI then people can actually trust the process more.

[Cafe De Paris]

I’m also in favour of automated offsides. That and goal line tech I’m happy with. Everything else can be scrapped. If there is a foul leading to a goal and the ref misses it. Unlucky. If there is a handball leading to a goal and the ref misses it unlucky. To be honest it’s not var that is the problem it’s the wankers using it.

[Kashinoda]

I dont want semi-automated offsides as they are now, where each call is manually reviewed after the system flags it. It's a quicker and fairer turn-around but it doesn't address the negative effect on celebrations.

The system should ping the linesman immediately so he/she can call it on the field. They can then review it after.

[Keith Lard]

Keep technology and hopefully one day we can evolve to a point where it’s completely automated and the human refs can be fucked off completely ….

[HomesickRed]

Okay, everyone is moaning, and many saying get shut. Just as many saying VAR is not going away.
So how to improve it? For my money, I would:

1.  Grant TWO challenges for each team per game.
2.  The referee alone makes the decision on viewing the monitor.

The phrase 'clear and obvious error' is done away with --- it just invites aggro as it implies a daft mistake and nobody wants to admit that.
Instead, for the referee it should just be a case of 'no liability admitted, but if had seen that incident, I would have called it differently' type of approach.

You may still have daft decisions, but at least you know it's the referee who is making them.

[Fromola]

I dont want semi-automated offsides as they are now, where each call is manually reviewed after the system flags it. It's a quicker and fairer turn-around but it doesn't address the negative effect on celebrations.

The system should ping the linesman immediately so he/she can call it on the field. They can then review it after.

No, that's why I say i'd support automated offsides that can be quick and accurate. Until that's ready it's not worth it.

Watching Real in the CL the other week and their goal still took a couple of minutes to be given with this semi-automated system.

[Fromola]

Okay, everyone is moaning, and many saying get shut. Just as many saying VAR is not going away.
So how to improve it? For my money, I would:

1.  Grant TWO challenges for each team per game.
2.  The referee alone makes the decision on viewing the monitor.

The phrase 'clear and obvious error' is done away with --- it just invites aggro as it implies a daft mistake and nobody wants to admit that.
Instead, for the referee it should just be a case of 'no liability admitted, but if had seen that incident, I would have called it differently' type of approach.

You may still have daft decisions, but at least you know it's the referee who is making them.

In theory maybe, but that's 4 sets of VAR disruption every single game. At least now you still get games where it's not noticeable or used at all.

And when are the challenges going to come? As soon as a goal goes in, so you're waiting around for a ref to go to a monitor to make a subjective decision.

[owens_2k]

Lets have a season with no VAR and see how much more enjoyable it is.

Then do the vote.

[Keith Lard]

Lets have a season with no VAR and see how much more enjoyable it is.

Then do the vote.

Can’t turn back the clock - tech is here to stay and the game needs to get better at integrating it more smoothly into overall game experience. It’s awful right now because the implementation is garbage and it’s being used too much for subjective stuff. Give it 10 years and it will be better lmao.

If they bin it, in a few years it will only be brought back.

[Tobelius]

Was all for VAR when it was introduced,idealistically and naively so in hindsight.

Nothing wrong with technology being used in goal line cameras,everything else makes the match experience worse than ever and should go,the experiment has failed.

[BoRed]

Okay, everyone is moaning, and many saying get shut. Just as many saying VAR is not going away.
So how to improve it? For my money, I would:

1.  Grant TWO challenges for each team per game.
2.  The referee alone makes the decision on viewing the monitor.

The phrase 'clear and obvious error' is done away with --- it just invites aggro as it implies a daft mistake and nobody wants to admit that.
Instead, for the referee it should just be a case of 'no liability admitted, but if had seen that incident, I would have called it differently' type of approach.

You may still have daft decisions, but at least you know it's the referee who is making them.

Use three VARs in three different countries, none of them England (I'm sure the PL could afford this). Don't allow them to communicate with each other or with the onfield referee. Each one gets one minute to review the onfield decision. If all three vote to change the onfield decision, the decision is simply relayed to the onfield ref who executes it. If two vote to change the onfield decision, the ref is invited to the screen and makes the final decision. If fewer than two vote to change the decision (or if the review is not complete within a minute), the onfield decision stands.

[wenlock]

IMO panels with ex players are a double edged sword. While they have experience of match conditions they also often bring a lot of baggage and biases with them. With players it can go deeper then just a club rivalry, players can take offence at being transfered, not transfered, overplayed, underplayed, not given a birthday cake and so on.

[Tonyh8su]

Little good boys again. Cannot believe after the shambolic decisions against us this year that we’re first to come out saying we’ll support keeping it.

Whipping boys.

FSG better hope they get this post Klopp transition right because they made some fucking howlers during Klopp’s time and it was only him propping them up. 

[Fromola]

Little good boys again. Cannot believe after the shambolic decisions against us this year that we’re first to come out saying we’ll support keeping it.

Whipping boys.

FSG better hope they get this post Klopp transition right because they made some fucking howlers during Klopp’s time and it was only him propping them up.

Deserve everything we'll get next season after that. Fucking idiots.

It'd be great if just once FSG read the room.

[Keith Lard]

Little good boys again. Cannot believe after the shambolic decisions against us this year that we’re first to come out saying we’ll support keeping it.

Whipping boys.

FSG better hope they get this post Klopp transition right because they made some fucking howlers during Klopp’s time and it was only him propping them up. 

I just don’t understand this viewpoint.

The club can’t throw the toys out the pram on the whim of disgruntled supporters. If they think VAR is right for the game over the long term and that the technology itself and usage of it can improve over the long term, then they’re right to back it and be part of the conversation for improvement.

[JRed]

Deserve everything we'll get next season after that. Fucking idiots.

It'd be great if just once FSG read the room.

Yeah, Fromola knows best.

[Fromola]

I just don’t understand this viewpoint.

The club can’t throw the toys out the pram on the whim of disgruntled supporters. If they think VAR is right for the game over the long term and that the technology itself and usage of it can improve over the long term, then they’re right to back it and be part of the conversation for improvement.

Why be drawn on it? We were the only club to actually back it though today, everyone else refused to be drawn on it, maybe because they know  just how unpopular and toxic VAR is . Ridiculous given the amount of times we've been screwed over this season, that we're the club to dance to PGMOLs tune

[JRed]

Why be drawn on it? We were the only club to actually back it though today, everyone else refused to be drawn on it, maybe because they know  just how unpopular and toxic VAR is . Ridiculous given the amount of times we've been screwed over this season, that we're the club to dance to PGMOLs tune

PGMOL would prefer var to be binned, there would be less scrutiny on them.

[4pool]

PGMOL would prefer var to be binned, there would be less scrutiny on them.

Not a chance.

With VAR binned, the match officials will come under more scrutiny to get their calls correctly. If they don't the media aren't going away. They'll be analyzing everything and pointing out the errors.

VAR is NOT technology.

Drawing willy wonka lines for offside is not technology.

Having multiple tv camera angles is not technology.

It's the people in the VAR booth that protect their mates is the problem. Eliminate VAR and the protection scheme goes away.

Yes, we'll be stuck with bullshit calls. But it's always been that way.

[Garlic Red]

I seem to be in the minority but I find it an awful lot easier to accept that someone can watch a replay and say “not clear enough” than I do to accept a referee can just miss a decision and nobody anywhere can tell him he’s made a mistake.

They’ve ballsed VAR up at times over here but the biggest issue with it is engaging fans in the stadium and on tele. The inconsistencies etc are just nonsense that people bring up to win an argument, no sport that requires subjectivity to referee will ever have consistency. Ever. The sooner people grasp that and move on the better.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

FIFA and UEFA should make it mandatory for all the top leagues.

Just for shits and giggles.

[keano7]

I’m also in favour of automated offsides. That and goal line tech I’m happy with. Everything else can be scrapped. If there is a foul leading to a goal and the ref misses it. Unlucky. If there is a handball leading to a goal and the ref misses it unlucky. To be honest it’s not var that is the problem it’s the wankers using it.

I think we’ve benefitted once from a foul leading to a goal. The Haaland one at Anfield in the 1-0 Salah win. Haaland made 2 fouls which were not seen! The Origi one at Old Trafford was ridiculous.

[RedDeadRejection]

I want it binning for the sole reason of being able to celebrate goals again. VAR has made the game more boring. It's that simple.

[johnybarnes]

A Ligue 1 team requested VAR to be scrapped in January - the PL just gets the most eyeballs.

https://onefootball.com/en/news/ligue-1-club-officially-request-lfp-to-scrap-var-altogether-intriguing-38894682

[ozired]

I’m probably in the minority, but I think the decisions we’ve had against us this year, proves that the technology could work, if there wasn’t inept fools in charge of it.
If all the decisions had been overturned in our favour, would we be wondering what if?
Get rid of PGMOL’s involvement in the process & get in some ex players & tech guys who can adjudicate fairly.

[red_Mark1980]

The refs are the issue

[WillG.LFC]

Hang on some people think decisions will improve without VAR 

The only real argument for scrapping VAR is less interruptions to the flow of the game.

[zero zero]

Laughable that the morons at the club are the first club (and only one so far) to brief that they're backing VAR.
<snip>
Laughable that we're doing their bidding for them after this season.

Fuck me, why are you slagging off our club? Calling our people "morons" and fuckwits". If it were up to you we would have "solved" our DM issues last summer with Amrabat.

You've taken one sentence and used it to launch an attack at our club. LFC are not the problem. We may not be in favour of scrapping VAR, we may be in favour of improving VAR. Scrap VAR and we'll get fucked over even more.

1. We can start by binning off "clear and obvious error". We have situations now where VAR won't intervene if the ref gives a penalty. And won't intervene if he doesn't. What a nonsense.

2. State clearly that the purpose of VAR is to get decisions right. We don't care whose feelings get hurt if they called to the monitor. If a player gets studs in his chest whilst upright in the penalty area, there's no mitigation, it's a penalty.

3. Spend the summer learning to communicate clearly with unambiguous language. And no more of this "Olly" and "mate" stuff. At least try and sound professional


 

[Fromola]

Fuck me, why are you slagging off our club? Calling our people "morons" and fuckwits". If it were up to you we would have "solved" our DM issues last summer with Amrabat.

You've taken one sentence and used it to launch an attack at our club. LFC are not the problem. We may not be in favour of scrapping VAR, we may be in favour of improving VAR. Scrap VAR and we'll get fucked over even more.

1. We can start by binning off "clear and obvious error". We have situations now where VAR won't intervene if the ref gives a penalty. And won't intervene if he doesn't. What a nonsense.

2. State clearly that the purpose of VAR is to get decisions right. We don't care whose feelings get hurt if they called to the monitor. If a player gets studs in his chest whilst upright in the penalty area, there's no mitigation, it's a penalty.

3. Spend the summer learning to communicate clearly with unambiguous language. And no more of this "Olly" and "mate" stuff. At least try and sound professional

Do they honestly think it's going to improve? It's a sunk cost fallacy at this point until PGMOL is destroyed in its current form.

They should try reading the room and factor in the fans for once.