Topic: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General

[slaphead]

Getting rid of var will not improve anything. Infact it would give the PGMOL mafia even more licence to do whatever the fuck they want. The PL needs to realise it’s the officials that are the problem.

I think thats exactly what will happen, and probably what Wolves (and others) hope and expect to get out of this. They could never go asking for PGMOL to be sacked off because they would close ranks. Doing it this way is smart, ask for somehting they probably wont get then get something they're happy with. Excellent from Wolves this move.

[Fromola]

Can you imagine going to not having VAR now and they give the Diaz goal at spurs as offside . Are we all going to say it’s a genuine mistake and just get on with it?

VAR is fantastic. It’s just that it’s highlighted how corrupt the officials are that has caused the problems.

Close offside calls were generally accepted by the lino's call. Plus the flag goes up straight away so he wouldn't have scored anyway because there's no delayed flags.

The controversy was over the bad ones, the obvious example being City away with Sterling, but they're the ones people remember because they were rare. You feel just as cheated when you get a goal ruled out minutes later from VAR by a hair's breadth offside.

[Fromola]

Well done Wolves. I don't think it will pass though.

Up to the supporter's groups to start lobbying the clubs over the vote. It's our game whether they like it or not and fans have power when they use it.

I don't suppose dumb and dumber on Sky will be sticking their necks out like over the Super League. They don't give a fuck about the fans.

[meady1981]

I’d accept Diaz’s goal being ruled offside onfield.
I can’t accept it being ruled inside by a moron in a room and forgetting to tell the ref about it.

I’ve loved every Carabou cup game without it,

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

I’d accept Diaz’s goal being ruled offside onfield.
I can’t accept it being ruled inside by a moron in a room and forgetting to tell the ref about it.

I’ve loved every Carabou cup game without it,

Exactly this. Plus without VAR we would have still had 11 players at that point and would have gone on to win regardless.

[JRed]

Close offside calls were generally accepted by the lino's call. Plus the flag goes up straight away so he wouldn't have scored anyway because there's no delayed flags.

The controversy was over the bad ones, the obvious example being City away with Sterling, but they're the ones people remember because they were rare. You feel just as cheated when you get a goal ruled out minutes later from VAR by a hair's breadth offside.

Yeah I get that but it’s still going to get the same level of tv scrutiny but this time the officials will have even less accountability because they have the excuse of ‘honest mistake’ . Honestly, I don’t think going back to no var would be viable now, particularly if we still have the same corrupt officials.

[BobPaisley3]

If for no other reason than I want to be able to celebrate goals again, please please bin it

This is the crux of it, it’s taken the highest emotion in the game away.

[Fromola]

Yeah I get that but it’s still going to get the same level of tv scrutiny but this time the officials will have even less accountability because they have the excuse of ‘honest mistake’ . Honestly, I don’t think going back to no var would be viable now, particularly if we still have the same corrupt officials.

VAR itself is unviable though (at least in England and it's just as bad in Scotland). The worse the officials are the worse it'll be, but it's unworkable with subjective decisions.

Once the automated offside technology is properly ready (and instant) then it makes VAR obsolete anyway.

[rafathegaffa83]

I think thats exactly what will happen, and probably what Wolves (and others) hope and expect to get out of this. They could never go asking for PGMOL to be sacked off because they would close ranks. Doing it this way is smart, ask for somehting they probably wont get then get something they're happy with. Excellent from Wolves this move.

Good point

[tray fenny]

Can't wait for everyone to remember how bad it was without VAR and the constant complaining to continue. It's never going to change until the quality of the refs improves.

We need to celebrate goals again.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

We need to celebrate goals again.

Didn't you used to celebrate disallowed goals before var ?

[koptommy93]

Can't wait for everyone to remember how bad it was without VAR and the constant complaining to continue. It's never going to change until the quality of the refs improves.

It was 10 times better than now

[Yosser0_0]

I think thats exactly what will happen, and probably what Wolves (and others) hope and expect to get out of this. They could never go asking for PGMOL to be sacked off because they would close ranks. Doing it this way is smart, ask for somehting they probably wont get then get something they're happy with. Excellent from Wolves this move.

What does this mean? Who exactly will close ranks and do what? It's a members vote isn't it, i.e. the clubs decide on this.

[JRed]

It was 10 times better than now

Really? Maybe we just thought the refs were making honest mistakes, now we know they  are not.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

It was 10 times better than now

We need to fix the officials (not the way they're used to), not VAR, that just needs a little tweaking.

[Lusty]

We need to fix the officials (not the way they're used to), not VAR, that just needs a little tweaking.

VAR will always be shit, regardless of who is operating it.  It's a shit system based on technology that isn't fit for purpose.  That the refs are shit is just the icing on the shit cake.

[meady1981]

We need to fix the officials (not the way they're used to), not VAR, that just needs a little tweaking.

I don't think its possible to fix the officials.

[Fromola]

Can't wait for everyone to remember how bad it was without VAR and the constant complaining to continue. It's never going to change until the quality of the refs improves.

If it's going to be awful with or without VAR then why have it? At least let us celebrate goals and stop all the constant interruptions and gaslighting.

Focus on improving the standards and then bring some form of VAR in if it's proven to actually work well and within it's original sell of minimal interference.

Why do we have to put up with it if it's going to be shit?

[JRed]

VAR will always be shit, regardless of who is operating it.  It's a shit system based on technology that isn't fit for purpose.  That the refs are shit is just the icing on the shit cake.

It’s not tho. The VAR system showed the officials that Mac Allister got the ball first and Dolu kicked him in the chest. It showed that Diaz was onside. It showed that Odourgard didn’t slip and it was handball. It showed that Caicedo didn’t slip before he planted his foot on a Liverpool players ankle. I could go on. The VAR technology worked perfectly…

[In the Name of Klopp]

I’d accept Diaz’s goal being ruled offside onfield.
I can’t accept it being ruled inside by a moron in a room and forgetting to tell the ref about it.

I’ve loved every Carabou cup game without it,

But that has nothing to do with VAR, it's the idiots operating the system. The humans are the problem, not the technology. If you get rid of VAR, so what? Tierney, Hooper, Taylor, and England will all still be there; they and other PGMOL referees are the primary cause that needs fixing, not removing the only thing that exposes them.

[Lusty]

It’s not tho. The VAR system showed the officials that Mac Allister got the ball first and Dolu kicked him in the chest. It showed that Diaz was onside. It showed that Odourgard didn’t slip and it was handball. It showed that Caicedo didn’t slip before he planted his foot on a Liverpool players ankle. I could go on. The VAR technology worked perfectly…

How is the technology supposed to fix those?  All it can do is show a replay to a human being, and if human beings were able to make the decisions correctly then you don't need VAR.

Also it's not accurate enough to call offsides correctly which I've been banging on about for years.

[JRed]

How is the technology supposed to fix those?  All it can do is show a replay to a human being, and if human beings were able to make the decisions correctly then you don't need VAR.

Also it's not accurate enough to call offsides correctly which I've been banging on about for years.

You said the technology is not fit for purpose, I just demonstrated that the technology works fine. Getting rid of it just means less scrutiny on the cheat who ref the games.
AI offsides are coming in arent they? So that will solve that problem.

[Fromola]

But that has nothing to do with VAR, it's the idiots operating the system. The humans are the problem, not the technology. If you get rid of VAR, so what? Tierney, Hooper, Taylor, and England will all still be there; they and other PGMOL referees are the primary cause.

We've spent 5 years waiting around for 5 minutes to see if someone's armpit (or whatever other body part) is offside. The technology is part of the problem. Also as it will never work for subjective decisions.

It's not just PL officials either. We've had several unfathomable VAR calls go against us in Europa this season.

They could sell goal-line tech because it was instant. They could sell automated offsides IF it's instant. Only then does the tech work.

[koptommy93]

We need to fix the officials (not the way they're used to), not VAR, that just needs a little tweaking.

You will never make VAR better than not having it because it kills the flow of games and ruins watching games in the ground. That's aside from how badly it's used. It makes the activity of watching football itself less enjoyable.

[Schmidt]

We've spent 5 years waiting around for 5 minutes to see if someone's armpit (or whatever other body part) is offside. The technology is part of the problem. Also as it will never work for subjective decisions.

It's not just PL officials either. We've had several unfathomable VAR calls go against us in Europa this season.

They could sell goal-line tech because it was instant. They could sell automated offsides IF it's instant. Only then does the tech work.

The problem isn't subjective decisions. The problem is that there have been countless decisions this season that were backed by VAR, yet everyone watching knows that if the referee had given the opposite decision VAR would have backed that too.

Officials are either too scared or too arrogant to call out mistakes, and they're an incredibly opaque organisation with stooges everywhere trying to gaslight us into thinking they're good at what they do. There's absolutely no reason for an organisation like PGMOL to not offer transparency with absolutely everything they do; match recordings, performance reviews, punishments, it should all be transparent. They're hiding it because they run the PL like a Sunday league.

[meady1981]

Whatever your views, one thing for certain is that it’s done irreversible damage to the game/fan relationship whatever they do. Mistrust, conspiracies, corruption talk, it’s off the charts. People are frenzied. I find all that the most painful stuff to have to sift through. No one seems to serenely just enjoy football anymore.

[rob1966]

We need to fix the officials (not the way they're used to), not VAR, that just needs a little tweaking.

Exactly - we'll get fucked over even worse without it than we do now, every tight offside goal against us will be given, every tight one for us will be disallowed, we'll never get a pen again either

[Fromola]

The problem isn't subjective decisions. The problem is that there have been countless decisions this season that were backed by VAR, yet everyone watching knows that if the referee had given the opposite decision VAR would have backed that too.

Officials are either too scared or too arrogant to call out mistakes, and they're an incredibly opaque organisation with stooges everywhere trying to gaslight us into thinking they're good at what they do. There's absolutely no reason for an organisation like PGMOL to not offer transparency with absolutely everything they do; match recordings, performance reviews, punishments, it should all be transparent. They're hiding it because they run the PL like a Sunday league.

I'm well aware PGMOL and the refs aren't fit for purpose. All VAR will do is magnify that a lot more, but they're unaccountable. And when a club reach the end of their tether like Forest did all, the pundits, freeloaders and media lackies come out to attack the club.

Nothing changes except we get all fancy rule changes in August that are ignored by September.

Plus the constant narrative now of "yes VAR is utterly awful and everyone hates it but if we just change it by doing x or y". Aka the sunk cost fallacy. 

[Fromola]

Whatever your views, one thing for certain is that it’s done irreversible damage to the game/fan relationship whatever they do. Mistrust, conspiracies, corruption talk, it’s off the charts. People are frenzied. I find all that the most painful stuff to have to sift through. No one seems to serenely just enjoy football anymore.

More so in the EFL whose fans would hugely object to VAR coming in. I've seen plenty of Leeds fans going into the play offs saying they'd rather stay down and avoid all the VAR nonsense every week. And Burnley and Sheff United fans who are happy enough to go back down and avoid it.

And nobody would claim the standard of refs in the EFL is any good at all, either. It's not.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

How is the technology supposed to fix those?  All it can do is show a replay to a human being, and if human beings were able to make the decisions correctly then you don't need VAR.

Also it's not accurate enough to call offsides correctly which I've been banging on about for years.

So you agree, we need better humans.

[stoa]

It's basically a kid closing their eyes and putting their hands over their ears saying "No, my parents aren't fighting, everything is fine". Sure, get rid of VAR, but that way the standards of refereeing will never improve. VAR should have created a push in that direction, but instead people seem more arsed with not being able to celebrate rather than ask the question why a kick in the chest in the penalty area is not a penalty.

[rob1966]

So you agree, we need better humans.

Yes we do - VAR should work, there's been a huge amount of time, money and effort put into this by Hawkeye and a bunch of cheating c*nts have fucked it.

Do away with the lines for offside, 30 seconds to look with the naked eye and if its not clearly offside, then the goal stands.
Stop checking every incident, the ref has to ask for a review, they shouldn't be automatic.
As we don't have big screens in all grounds, then the ref HAS to watch the replay WITH the VAR officials.

Its not hard to fix ffs

It's basically a kid closing their eyes and putting their hands over their ears saying "No, my parents aren't fighting, everything is fine". Sure, get rid of VAR, but that way the standards of refereeing will never improve. VAR should have created a push in that direction, but instead people seem more arsed with not being able to celebrate rather than ask the question why a kick in the chest in the penalty area is not a penalty.

Loads in this thread saying fuck it off will be back crying next season when we get fucked over and it'll be "if only we had a system where the ref could look in close detail"

[Fromola]

Loads in this thread saying fuck it off will be back crying next season when we get fucked over and it'll be "if only we had a system where the ref could look in close detail"

Yeah, if only. How many bad refereeing calls have we had this season that VAR has actually intervened in our favour?

Odegaard handball? No.
Doku studs on chest? No.
Mac Allister red card for fuck all? No.
The assault on Grav in the cup final? No.
The Van Dijk red card? No.
The pen away at Brighton with the non-sending off? No.
The goal ruled out at Burnley for a non-foul? No.


And times it's screwed us:
The Van Dijk goal that could have cost us the cup final
Jones red card with that stitch up over the freeze frame
The penalty Palace got about 5 minutes after the restart, for a very subjective call
The Salah bullshit at Burnley when he was pushed into an offside position
A few in Europe as well with goals ruled out for nothing by VAR, or goals allowed to stand against us that were miles offside

Not to mention the farce over the Diaz goal.

It was sold as being there to correct howlers and it doesn't even do that. Not for us anyway. It still spends ages dissecting our goals though to try and rule out.

[rob1966]

Yeah, if only. How many bad refereeing calls have we had this season that VAR has actually intervened in our favour?

Odegaard handball? No.
Doku studs on chest? No.
Mac Allister red card for fuck all? No.
The assault on Grav in the cup final? No.
The Van Dijk red card? No.
The pen away at Brighton with the non-sending off? No.
The goal ruled out at Burnley for a non-foul? No.


And times it's screwed us:
The Van Dijk goal that could have cost us the cup final
Jones red card with that stitch up over the freeze frame
The penalty Palace got about 5 minutes after the restart, for a very subjective call
The Salah bullshit at Burnley when he was pushed into an offside position
A few in Europe as well with goals ruled out for nothing by VAR, or goals allowed to stand against us that were miles offside

Not to mention the farce over the Diaz goal.

It was sold as being there to correct howlers and it doesn't even do that. Not for us anyway. It still spends ages dissecting our goals though to try and rule out.

Its NOT VAR it the fucking corrupt officials for fucks sake 

When you get your wish and we get fucked left right and centre, don't be on here crying about shit refs, because you'll have got what you wished for.

[JRed]

Its NOT VAR it the fucking corrupt officials for fucks sake 

When you get your wish and we get fucked left right and centre, don't be on here crying about shit refs, because you'll have got what you wished for.

Strange how don’t get that the only problem with VAR is the people using it.

[Fromola]

Its NOT VAR it the fucking corrupt officials for fucks sake 

Why have it then? If it stays next season and the year after and the year after, it's going to be the same officials using it. And it's a license to cheat and gaslight.

When you get your wish and we get fucked left right and centre, don't be on here crying about shit refs, because you'll have got what you wished for.

I've just demonstrated how the VAR system (in the Premier League, League Cup and at times in Europe this season) has screwed us left, right and centre. Even in overruling the ref, or by backing them up when they fuck us over.

If the VAR system and process was actually overturning these awful decisions in our favour then you'd have a point.

[Kenny's Jacket]

The slow kid at the back wants to know why ITN News are talking about the end for VAR?

[Mister Flip Flop]

I’d accept Diaz’s goal being ruled offside onfield.
I can’t accept it being ruled inside by a moron in a room and forgetting to tell the ref about it.

I’ve loved every Carabou cup game without it,

I've said before on the forum i follow my local team here and go to some of their games Shamrock Rovers and i can tell you the absolute joy of being able to watch a game without VAR is unreal. To be able to celebrate goals is the greatest thing about the sport and VAR has ruined that.

[redgriffin73]

Wolves spot on with near enough each point:

As if PGMOL didn't hate Wolves enough, they are screwed now

Fair play to them though

[Son of Spion]

The tech is fine. The chimpanzees operating it are the problem.

It's like putting a chimp in a Airbus A380 and letting it try to fly it. Worse still, it gets a banana as a reward every time it fucks up.