Topic: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"

[Fat Scouser]

i dont think he should be sacke immediately which i have said perviously as i would never agree with sacking a manager in the middle of a season, and personally think clubs should be made to stick with the manager they have at the start of the season until the end of it.
 but come the end of the season i would say so yes as i cant see him getting us any further i maybe wrong and if rafa stays and proves me wrong i will be the first to admit to it

Okay keep an incompetent to wreck any chance we've got this season and then bring in Mourinho. Have I got that correct?

[Romford_Red]

i would have kept torres on for 90 fuckin minutes, what is the stigma with a striker playing 90 minutes, even a nando with 2 broken legs sttod up front, he could pull something out the bag or at least stand there and hold it up for a bit.

You would have kept a player on for 90 minutes, in the freezing cold, who relies a lot on sudden bursts of pace, who has had problems with his hamstring?

Without wanting to sound like a scumbag, that is really stupid.

[DangerScouse]

i disagree that rafa has done better

houllier won the treble and finished second

rafa won the champions league with houlliers team and the fa cup

3 english teams in the semi finals of the CL last year might suggest the standard of the english league has improved considerably and therefore harder to win!

[martinjmmac5]

I've only asked you one question really... do you think Rafa should be sacked.As for you young fella me lad, go write 500 lines... I must not wuestion Rafa or Fat Scouser. I will listen to older reds like Shanklyboy and Gedo and I will become the best red I can.

Remember lad, it's auld c*nts like me who handed you the baton. Believe ot or not, there is a thing or two to be learned by listening to them

yer i understand that, i listen and take in everything from the older generation, family etc, but that does not immediately make everything they say correct all of the time, the greatest and biggest auld arses in the world get it wrong from time to time.
on the whole your posts are spot on but it seems as though i can't have any opinion when it comes to rafa and his decision making, can you seriously say, with all your wisdom and knowledge of liverpool football club, that lucas leiva should be in a liverpool shirt playing week in week out, consider the fact that he has played ok twice in about 2 years everton last year and newcastle the other week, they were shit like and may aswell not have had a midfield

[KOTP]

Okay keep an incompetent to wreck any chance we've got this season and then bring in Mourinho. Have I got that correct?

nice twist of the words i have never said rafa is incompetant i think he is a good manager just not good enough to win us the league

[Nick110581]

You would have kept a player on for 90 minutes, in the freezing cold, who relies a lot on sudden bursts of pace, who has had problems with his hamstring?

Without wanting to sound like a scumbag, that is really stupid.

He also says a player with two broken legs could produce something so not quite sure what to make of it.

People who want Rafa out won't know what they have til he is gone. Fact.

[Fat Scouser]

the man arrives when we are at arguably the lowest point this club had been in since shankly took over, we had a squad full of overpriced flops with little or no sell on value (biscan, le tallec, cheyrou, diao, diouf etc).
the first thing rafa did after taking over was to rush over to the england team hotel during the euro`s to try and convince our two best players to stay......one left.
our style of footy was awful, it was a running joke throughout the league with shouts of `hoof` and even cryuff called us an enemy of footy, saying if every team played like liverpool the game would be dead within a year.
the team was so devoid of confidence that if we went a goal down it was game over, we hadnt overturned a one goal defecit in 2 years and just before rafa arrived we went on the worst run since our second division days over 50 years ago.
on top of that the people who owned the club and recruited rafa said they would have to sell the club because they were skint.
despite all that rafa has changed the dioufs and diao`s and replaced them with the likes of reina, agger, mascherano, alonso and torres, he won the champions league, got to another final, got us to 3 semi finals in four years and has never failed to get out of the group stages (which was regarded as a big feat under houllier), won the f.a cup in a classic final that will go down in history alongside the matthews final and the white horse final beating united and chelsea along the way, got us to a league cup final and he has also amassed our highest ever points total in the Premier League.
this season we`ve enjoyed our best start in years and are at worst 3 points behind united and it`s near february!
i know we`ve had a few dissapointing results lately but lets look at the bigger picture, wether we win the title this year or not, we have certainly made massive strides under benitez.

Sorry mate, missed that. Hoped Martin never, as I think there's hope for him yet.

[Nick110581]

nice twist of the words i have never said rafa is incompetant i think he is a good manager just not good enough to win us the league

In your opinion who would you want to take over.

Be realistic?

[RK7]

Houllier was a better manager than Rafa no doubt, but saying that without Rafa we could well be worse off. Better the devil you know.

[bonzer red]

i would have kept torres on for 90 fuckin minutes, what is the stigma with a striker playing 90 minutes, even a nando with 2 broken legs sttod up front, he could pull something out the bag or at least stand there and hold it up for a bit.

  he's not 100% match fit, i would have loved him to stay on for 90 mins, but  say he stayed on hit the winner but done his hamstring again, we may have won, but it would have been at a cost, and we can't afford to lose him again we would be without him for ages again, then what do we do,were still in the mix, still all to play for, we just need to believe

[BCCC]

i would have kept torres on for 90 fuckin minutes, what is the stigma with a striker playing 90 minutes, even a nando with 2 broken legs sttod up front, he could pull something out the bag or at least stand there and hold it up for a bit.

Torres was clearly fucked after being battered by the blueshite for over 80mins. I'm surprised he lasted that long personally particularly as at times we hit him with long high balls were he was clearly going to get the centre half through the back of him.

[BCCC]

Houllier was a better manager than Rafa no doubt, but saying that without Rafa we could well be worse off. Better the devil you know.

Fuckin clueless.

[martinjmmac5]

You would have kept a player on for 90 minutes, in the freezing cold, who relies a lot on sudden bursts of pace, who has had problems with his hamstring?

Without wanting to sound like a scumbag, that is really stupid.

well fuck him off then we'll put him in a cabinet in the museum and not play him on the off chance his hamster goes, so you are sayin he can't play 90 minutes and he cant play in the cold? He has appeared in 3 games since his last hamstring injury, when will he be ready to play then??? should give it a few months let it warm up a bit first.    gerry byrne played the 1965 f.a cup final with a broken collarbone, if he can;t play 90 minutes against everton then whats goin on.

[KOTP]

In your opinion who would you want to take over.

Be realistic?

not agreed with by any if many but personally i think mourinho would do a good job or capello but capello is a unrealistic one

[Nick110581]

Houllier was a better manager than Rafa no doubt, but saying that without Rafa we could well be worse off. Better the devil you know.

Why do you think that?

[smicer07]

So we're joint top at the moment, and people want the boss out?!

[martinjmmac5]

we'll make him a bubble wrap liverpool kit then eh?

[Nick110581]

not agreed with by any if many but personally i think mourinho would do a good job or capello but capello is a unrealistic one

Would not want Mourinhio anywhere near our Club.

I much prefer Rafa as a character rather than some jumped up egotistical c*nt.

[Walter Sobchak]

some great contributions in this thread but sadly alot of posters seem to have missed the point.

too many people just reading the headline and drawing conclusions before reading the opening post.

[se9R.F.L]

Houllier was a better manager than Rafa no doubt, but saying that without Rafa we could well be worse off. Better the devil you know.

Houllier is still about and he's hardly setting the world alight, however if Rafa leaves us he'll be snapped up by Real Madrid or another footballing giant and probably be given the money, and possibly the time to show what he was trying to do here. I'd fucking hate for Liverpool to come up against a Rafa benitez team... remember last time it happened? And who was our manager then... oh yeah thats right

EDIT  just read this back and i want to make it clear that i'm not, in any way, slating Houllier, he made us dream again after the dark days of the 90s but i think it's Naive at best to think that he's in the same league as Rafa as a manager. Benitez is still young and will go down as one of the great managers whether it's with us or elsewhere

[Fat Scouser]

nice twist of the words i have never said rafa is incompetant i think he is a good manager just not good enough to win us the league

No you said he had had his Ged moment, which pretty much amounts to the same thing. but granted, if I'm going to qoute you, I shouldn't put words in that you never used.
You still haven't answered the question though.

and I'll be totally honest here... I was livid when they sacked Ged. I was still hoping he would turn it around. I can't help being like that. Auld c*nt or not, that's how most of us was back then. We stuck together, us against the world and fought for our own. I also thought, sacking manager's wasn't the Liverpool way.

But believe me, if I thought there was anyone to do the job better, I would personally tip Rafa out and go fetch them. but I honestly can't see it and having read your alternatives I don't think you can either.

On top of that, do you honestly think H&G won't just install a Klinsman yes man if Rafa is pushed or jumps

[Nick110581]

So we're joint top at the moment, and people want the boss out?!

It seems that way.

Lets see if they would feel that way if Jurgen / Curbs / insert equally inadequate Manager were to come in.

[Romford_Red]

well fuck him off then we'll put him in a cabinet in the museum and not play him on the off chance his hamster goes, so you are sayin he can't play 90 minutes and he cant play in the cold? He has appeared in 3 games since his last hamstring injury, when will he be ready to play then??? should give it a few months let it warm up a bit first.    gerry byrne played the 1965 f.a cup final with a broken collarbone, if he can;t play 90 minutes against everton then whats goin on.

If you knew anything about how the body works, you would know that muscles are at their most vulnerable when...
Recently recovered from injury
Suddenly put under pressure (Bursts of pace for example)
They have worked a lot already
They are cold.

Oh look, Torres fits into both.
If the choice is 2 more points and Torres crocked for another 4-6 weeks, or lose 2 points but handle Torres return sensibly to keep him fit, I'm in the latter camp and happy to be there.

[martinjmmac5]

I'm off can't be arsed now, will keep me opinions to meself and not rock the rafa boat

[DangerScouse]

Fuckin clueless.

He's beyond that mate! I'd love to see Houllier win 2 Spanish titles in 3 seasons with a limited budget up against Barca and Real.

[Nick110581]

some great contributions in this thread but sadly alot of posters seem to have missed the point.

too many people just reading the headline and drawing conclusions before reading the opening post.

I disagree with it.

Think it is nonsence and suggested why

[BCCC]

not agreed with by any if many but personally i think mourinho would do a good job or capello but capello is a unrealistic one

So whilst benitez is still making year on year improvements you'd sooner rip it up and start again? Or do you honestly believe the names you've quoted would come waltzing in and land the title in 2010?

[KOTP]

So we're joint top at the moment, and people want the boss out?!

no we are second or are you still celebrating us jointly winning the league with arsenal in 89

[RK7]

Fuckin clueless.

In my opinion, got a problem with that because it's not the same as yours?  do me a favour and fuck right off.

[Romford_Red]

I'm off can't be arsed now, will keep me opinions to meself and not rock the rafa boat

Your comment was nothing to do with Rafa, it was about handling your star play while he recovers from a series of muscle injuries.

[steveeastend]

the man arrives when we are at arguably the lowest point this club had been in since shankly took over, we had a squad full of overpriced flops with little or no sell on value (biscan, le tallec, cheyrou, diao, diouf etc).
the first thing rafa did after taking over was to rush over to the england team hotel during the euro`s to try and convince our two best players to stay......one left.
our style of footy was awful, it was a running joke throughout the league with shouts of `hoof` and even cryuff called us an enemy of footy, saying if every team played like liverpool the game would be dead within a year.
the team was so devoid of confidence that if we went a goal down it was game over, we hadnt overturned a one goal defecit in 2 years and just before rafa arrived we went on the worst run since our second division days over 50 years ago.
on top of that the people who owned the club and recruited rafa said they would have to sell the club because they were skint.
despite all that rafa has changed the dioufs and diao`s and replaced them with the likes of reina, agger, mascherano, alonso and torres, he won the champions league, got to another final, got us to 3 semi finals in four years and has never failed to get out of the group stages (which was regarded as a big feat under houllier), won the f.a cup in a classic final that will go down in history alongside the matthews final and the white horse final beating united and chelsea along the way, got us to a league cup final and he has also amassed our highest ever points total in the Premier League.
this season we`ve enjoyed our best start in years and are at worst 3 points behind united and it`s near february!
i know we`ve had a few dissapointing results lately but lets look at the bigger picture, wether we win the title this year or not, we have certainly made massive strides under benitez.

Spot on! Awesome post!

[neil_nds]

a bit of fun guys

houlliers stongest team v rafa stongest team

dudek
babel hyppia henchoz carra
smicer hamman gerrard kewell

owen fowler

rafa

reina
arbeloa agger skrtel insua
garcia alonso mash riera
torres keane

Reina is miles better than Dudek.  Babel is better than Arbeloa.  Hyypia then was better than Agger and Skrtel are at the moment, but they have the potential to be as good.  They're both better than Henchoz.  Insua and moreso Aurelio are better left backs than Carra was.
Garcia was miles better than Smicer.  Alonso and Mash are both better than Hamman was.  Gerrard's better than both of them obviously.  Riera is better than Kewell was for us.  Torres is better than Owen was (controversial maybe but I think he was)
Fowler wasn't as good as he used to be under Houllier but probably still better than Keane.

7 - 4 to Rafa's team.  Although it's a shite idea since it's not like he could have bough anyone better than Gerrard for centre mid anyway.

Never posted before on here but I feel I've been almost forced to because of the sheer idiocy and relentless negativity from some of the posters.
Three games ago we beat Preston in the cup and it's all smiles.  Fours games ago we thrashed Newcastle and Rafa's a fucking genius.  Now after TWO relatively poor games he suddenly doesn't have a clue what's he's doing?  It's such a ridiculous argument it's actually hard to fathom how anyone can be so thick.

If we'd have been offered being level at the top of the table (albeit with one rival having a game in hand) would we have taken it?  Absolutely we would.  Anyone who says otherwise is lying.

The only reason there's such negativity about our position is nothing more than a knee-jerk reaction to the last couple of matches, an opinion based only on current form instead of looking at the bigger picture.  If we'd drawn against Newcastle and the premier league game before that, then beaten Stoke and Everton be in the same position we're in now, people would be happy.

[Fat Scouser]

I'm off can't be arsed now, will keep me opinions to meself and not rock the rafa boat

Don't do that lad. State your opinions, but don't cock a deaf un to others. Believe it or not, there are some people about who actually do know a thing or two

[martinjmmac5]

If you knew anything about how the body works, you would know that muscles are at their most vulnerable when...
Recently recovered from injury
Suddenly put under pressure (Bursts of pace for example)
They have worked a lot already
They are cold.

Oh look, Torres fits into both.
If the choice is 2 more points and Torres crocked for another 4-6 weeks, or lose 2 points but handle Torres return sensibly to keep him fit, I'm in the latter camp and happy to be there.

couldn't drag meself away, you are missing the point if he is not fit enough to play 90 minutes in the cold he should not be in the team at all, just gorra get on with it and fuckin risk it what are we protecting him for this isnt a rehearsal, 2 points lost coz we take him off (hypothetically) is the same as 2 points lost when hes out injured, so he may aswell still be out injured, what difference was and extra 10 minutes gonna make. he could fall and break his leg at any minute

[BCCC]

In my opinion, got a problem with that because it's not the same as yours?  do me a favour and fuck right off.

Not got a problem if you'd care to explain why Houllier is better?

[KOTP]

No you said he had had his Ged moment, which pretty much amounts to the same thing. but granted, if I'm going to qoute you, I shouldn't put words in that you never used.
You still haven't answered the question though.

and I'll be totally honest here... I was livid when they sacked Ged. I was still hoping he would turn it around. I can't help being like that. Auld c*nt or not, that's how most of us was back then. We stuck together, us against the world and fought for our own. I also thought, sacking manager's wasn't the Liverpool way.

But believe me, if I thought there was anyone to do the job better, I would personally tip Rafa out and go fetch them. but I honestly can't see it and having read your alternatives I don't think you can either.

On top of that, do you honestly think H&G won't just install a Klinsman yes man if Rafa is pushed or jumps

i cant see them installing klinsmann now due to the fact his stock has gone down as he has now had a year in charge of a club and not done very well i think at the time klinsmann was suggested was as he was in the news being hailed as a good manager after his performances with germany but that has now been shown to be down to low

[Fat Scouser]

Spot on! Awesome post!

Is right. I just wish young un would read it and learn

[DangerScouse]

In my opinion, got a problem with that because it's not the same as yours?  do me a favour and fuck right off.

Fair enough it's your opinion but if you're going to come out with bold statements like that please back them up!

[Walter Sobchak]

I disagree with it.

Think it is nonsence and suggested why

fair enough but there are countless posts suggesting that KOPT wants rafa sacked. thats not the way i interpret it.

the fella has his doubts similar to the doubts he had concerning houllier which proved to be well founded. i understand his concern and can see where he's coming from. i dont agree with it but like i said i can see where he's coming from. and i certainly dont see it as a vieled 'sack rafa' thread. just a concerned supporter airing his doubts

[SallyCinnamon]

couldn't drag meself away, you are missing the point if he is not fit enough to play 90 minutes in the cold he should not be in the team at all, just gorra get on with it and fuckin risk it what are we protecting him for this isnt a rehearsal, 2 points lost coz we take him off (hypothetically) is the same as 2 points lost when hes out injured, so he may aswell still be out injured, what difference was and extra 10 minutes gonna make. he could fall and break his leg at any minute

Utterly clueless & then you wonder why have the cheek to piss and moan when people disagree with you