Author Topic: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"  (Read 67350 times)

Offline KOTP

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #560 on: January 21, 2009, 12:30:13 am »
Tell you one thing, when he is finally gone, I can't wait to read what he says about it.
i gotta say i certainly agree with you on that one. as for what ever we all say and our opinions differ it would certainly be intresting to hear what really has gone on.

in the end no matter what our opinions are on the subject we all what the same ending and that is the title back only time will tell who is right at the moment

Offline woof

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #561 on: January 21, 2009, 12:30:30 am »
75% per cent of this countries population now say they support a football club. Obviously the more successful you are the more you attract. Thankfully most of them will never make it to Anfield. But that's still a huge problem.

Supporters are becoming a thing of the past. They should just call them consumers and be done with it. they aren't there to support. they are there to be entertained and enjoy the experience. A lot of them have never even watched a full game on Telly. They watch highlights. They wonder - like some daft c*nt in here did to me - why we don't buy players like Koncheski cos he can score great goals. They seen one on Sky.

And that's not just me spouting off. It's all - as Rafa would say - Fact!
So true it's not funny. Many such "consumers" jumped on our bandwagon when we did the impossible in Istanbul. All of a sudden, the team from Merseyside from the workingclass background became a popular hit and every wants to be a part of it -- some were tired of the Scums (yeah, want to be different but still want a shot of glory), some see Arsenal as unfashionable and some thought Everton were still playing in Championship.

For us who have been around long enough, we see that this season is perhaps the most exciting since 1990 - we are now on par with the leaders on points and we still have a cracking chance of winning the league. The pressure is off us now that we are no longer the leaders so maybe it's time we play to win

Offline Super MAC

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #562 on: January 21, 2009, 12:31:15 am »
Fuck I wish I could sleep but seeing I can't and seeing I've got fuck all else to do.... it used to be that you started going in The Boy's Pen, and then you graduated to The Kop. As you got older, you fucked off into the stands and let the new blood in. This has long gone. Kid's now get their education from Soccer am. There is no patientce anymore.

I'm not that old. I'm 51. But the world, and football, has changed immensly since I started going to the match in 1965. the thing is though, the time it takes to build a succesful team and a lasting legacy hasn't. Well, in fact, it has. It's harder now if anything.
Therefore, Rafa must be given that time or mark my words... we will be many titles behind Man United before we get to this position again.


With you there mate, im sadly in the fucked off to the stands camp these days having followed the route you describe. In my opinion if we lost Rafa now we will be dead in the water and the sky generation will soon fuck off to follow something else as they wont bother their arse to follow a mid table run of the mill team which is what we will become. It may not come this season but I think we are on the tipping point of achieving things if we stay patient which is what we need to remain.

Getting nostalgic but its relevant....do you remember the 85/86 season when Everton won at Anfield thanks to a Grobbelaar howler which put them clear with about five games to go?? Going by the crap on here Kenny would have been sacked and denied his double 2 months later...people need to get a grip
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Offline woof

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #563 on: January 21, 2009, 12:31:49 am »
Although Manchester City are claiming they are sticking with Hughes, I'm sure the Arab owners are already plotting to have a top notch manager in charge of their galacticos. I'm sure the name "Rafa Benitez" is high on the list, if not the top

Offline Fat Scouser

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #564 on: January 21, 2009, 12:34:18 am »
Well, I'm going to go and try to get some kip again. But if you really think about it, what Rafa has achieved, with us and Valencia, is nothing short of miraculous.

We are spoilt rotten. We think it is our devine right to be at the top of European football with the likes of Milan, Real Madrid and (Fuck I hate to say it) Man U. But when you look at what Rafa has to work with, we really should be fighting with the likes of Everton, Tottenham and Villa.

So like I said lads... be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.
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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #565 on: January 21, 2009, 12:37:57 am »
Houllier was a dead man walking in 2003-4. The players had stopped believing him and so had the fans. Personally, he couldn't go quick enough.

His lack of ambition for a Liverpool side to pass the ball was quite frankly embarrassing. His idea of going away to a side he thought was better than us was to boot it as far as we could and defend the edge of the box almost.

I went to Barcelona (twice) under Ged and whilst i enjoyed the experience the lack of football we played was a little embarrassing. The articles in the spanish press the day after the first game were a bit embarrassing for a Liverpool fan who'd seen us play anywhere. I don't mean gungho but passed and kept the ball. And yet i was pleased !!

He too easily submitted that we weren't as good as other sides and NEVER tried to control a game against  agood side.

Rafa has his faults but they don't begin to compare with Houllier's and all managers make rickets. the difference is if they win nobody cares.

I'll give you 3  examples from the last 3 weeks to sum up 90% of football fans even the good ones who know what they're talking about.
 
Before the Newcastle game, I had more texts/calls about the selection than any this season. 5-1 and not so many knockers after.

Before Man Utd played Chelsea, I had texts from a lot of Utd fans questioning Ferguson's selection. No Carrick, Giggs/Park/Fletcher against Chelsea's strong midfield. ? A goal from a set piece on half time changed the game and they ran out easy winners.

Before the everton game, nearly everybody in the pub/people I was with at the game, agreed with the side.

We drew and yet Rafa is costing us the title.

The answer. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #566 on: January 21, 2009, 12:38:54 am »
About 18 months before Houllier went I had the moment where i realised that as good a job as he did he was never going to be the manager to take us to the holy grail of number 19. I've waited a few hours before posting this as at the time i posted about Houllier all I got was abuse and am just expecting the same now. This isnt just a rash thought I've had after last nights disappointment but that hasnt helped, its something that I've been thinking for a while and finally come to the conclusion that as good as Benitez has been, I cant see him ending the wait for number 19.

Rafa has given me and the rest of us some of the greatest moments as Liverpool fans but his constant baffling tactical decisions have finally seen me think this.

Last night Evertons main threat was coming from Anichebe who was starting on the right when we had the ball and cutting in to support cahill when Everton had it, he was causing problems but nothing that was dangerous most of the night until Rafa took Keane off which i support but instead of bringing mascherano on and pushing Gerrard further forward, he opted to bring on Yossi moving kuyt central and yossi on the right. As soon as he did this Moyes saw a potential weakness with yossi being a lot smaller than any of the other wingers we had on during the game and moved Anchiebe over to our right and there left, it came as no suprise that this is where Evertons goal come Yossi was no patch for the pace and raw strength of Anichebe and  in the end his foul brought Evertons goal.

Another one of Rafa's baffling decisions that he makes constantly is his seeming willingness to stick with Lucas who in 18months as far as I can remember has put in 1 good performance against a woeful newcastle. How Rafa can justify bringing him on before Mascherano last night is crazy it wasnt lucas' type of game it was to fast and furious for him he doesnt have a reputation of being a good tackler and that was proven last night when he came on his first impact was to give a free kick away and that continued through his performance.

another baffling decision by Rafa for me was his decision in the summer to bring in Robbie Keane, as good as a player as Keane has been if was never going to work out at Liverpool for him.  Benitez throughtout his managerial career has prefered a 4231 formation which is never going to suit Keane as he cant play as a lone striker and even if he could isnt going to be prefered over Torres,  and secondly to play him in the 4231 formation is then going to mean Gerrard dropping into the defensive mid roll which is then negating one of our main attacking threats.

Overall Rafa has given me some great times as a liverpool fan but i just cant see him bringing number 19 home unfortunately

So despite the fact that he's clearly brought year on year on year improvement to our league position means nothing.

I think that all you can ask for from a manager is to improve the side each season. Although we're having a bit of a dip in form - we are joint top of the league - without really hitting top form. We've had injuries to key players and the manager himself has had three operations which have affected him (I was talking to Armin last night and he said he looked really ill)

Improvement each term is all you can ask - you can't affect how other teams play (Except by challenging them directly) and we've beaten two of our main rivals and drawn with Arsenal.

If you seriously think that isn't improvement - then I'm lost for words.

It's obvious we've improved in the league. With a bit more 'luck' and a lot more confidence and form - this side has every chance of challenging (You can't guarantee anything) - and challenging is where it's at.

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Offline Fat Scouser

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #567 on: January 21, 2009, 12:39:06 am »

Getting nostalgic but its relevant....do you remember the 85/86 season when Everton won at Anfield thanks to a Grobbelaar howler which put them clear with about five games to go?? Going by the crap on here Kenny would have been sacked and denied his double 2 months later...people need to get a grip
I was stuck on an oil rig in the middle of the north sea cursing the shitty transistor I was listeneing to.
Although Manchester City are claiming they are sticking with Hughes, I'm sure the Arab owners are already plotting to have a top notch manager in charge of their galacticos. I'm sure the name "Rafa Benitez" is high on the list, if not the top
Lyndsey told me to go into Blue Moon after Rafa's "Rant" at Mr. Ferguson. They want him badly
"A peasant you are. A peasant you will remain. And we shall use all our wealth and power, to make your lot even worse and keep you exactly where you are, Bondage!"    The Boy King, Richard II, after  putting down the The Peasants Revolt in 1381.

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Offline Fat Scouser

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #568 on: January 21, 2009, 12:44:21 am »


 the manager himself has had three operations which have affected him (I was talking to Armin last night and he said he looked really ill)

Wish you'd all shut up so I'd fuck off to bed, but I have been saying for weeks how ill he looks. A mate of mine had kidney stones. It fucked him right up. And that was one op and sorted. Imagine the poor c*nt in serious bulk at home in bed and coming in here on the laptop.

I'd have lashed it right at the wall and told Montse to start packing

PS... something else that has worried me - the length of contract Ramos got at Real.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2009, 12:45:55 am by FAT SCOUSER »
"A peasant you are. A peasant you will remain. And we shall use all our wealth and power, to make your lot even worse and keep you exactly where you are, Bondage!"    The Boy King, Richard II, after  putting down the The Peasants Revolt in 1381.

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Offline steveeastend

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #569 on: January 21, 2009, 12:46:58 am »
FS & Andy, do you think he could seriously leave?

btw My father had kidney stones and it was no problem, the operation and afterwards. A friend of mine as well....thought it´s not a big deal but this doesn´t sound too good...
« Last Edit: January 21, 2009, 12:48:45 am by steveeastend »
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline woof

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #570 on: January 21, 2009, 12:48:07 am »
Wish you'd all shut up so I'd fuck off to bed, but I have been saying for weeks how ill he looks. A mate of mine had kidney stones. It fucked him right up. And that was one op and sorted. Imagine the poor c*nt in serious bulk at home in bed and coming in here on the laptop.

I'd have lashed it right at the wall and told Montse to start packing

PS... something else that has worried me - the length of contract Ramos got at Real.
Perhaps he should start sitting up at the stands again

Offline KOTP

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #571 on: January 21, 2009, 12:48:19 am »
Wish you'd all shut up so I'd fuck off to bed, but I have been saying for weeks how ill he looks. A mate of mine had kidney stones. It fucked him right up. And that was one op and sorted. Imagine the poor c*nt in serious bulk at home in bed and coming in here on the laptop.

I'd have lashed it right at the wall and told Montse to start packing

PS... something else that has worried me - the length of contract Ramos got at Real.
ramos contract was worrying me at real but given that florentin perez is probably gona be elected president of madird again i wouldnt worry about it unless your of my opionion of course :D as he is known to not like rafas style and has been critical of him in the past

Offline Zaffarious

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #572 on: January 21, 2009, 12:48:28 am »
Well, I finally got round to reading the answers. I intended to answer them, but, in all honesty, once I saw your answer for a replacement manager was Mourinho I changed my mind. In fact, I nearly lost the will to live.
Me and  KOTP crossed swords in another thread about Rafa. He kept saying Rafa didn't act in the "Liverpool Way." I'd like to go on about the Liverpool way, but I've done that in other threads. But I'll say this.... Mourinho is the absolute anti-christ of the Liverpool way.

I honestly, personally hate the man that much that if he ever did become manager of LFC, I would stop going to all games immeadiately and wouldn't go to another until he was gone. And that's coming from a man who has been going to watch Liverpool for 45 years.

And once I saw his name, I was tempted to just print Fuck off in highlighted capitals, but I'll try to be above me usual self. But take it from me, Mourinho would truly be the final nail in the coffin of The Liverpool Way.

On top of that, Mourinho is also basically a very cautious manager. His teams play shit on a stick football and grind out very boring 1 - 0 wins. But why let facts like that stand in the way when finding another alternative is so hard if not impossible.

Also, did you not see Rafa's Valencia play? Boring, defensive football, I think not. We are work in progress - results and substance must come before flair. The hardest title to win is the first one. Style can be added once it's in the cabinet. They also seem to come in clusters too. And let's be honest.. who can honestly say they haven't been thrilled with some of our football during Rafa's shift?

Quick word on The Liverpool Way... it never just evolved or materialised out of the blue. Bill and Bob fought the board tooth and nail to make them conduct business in that manner. And Bill was never shy about going public with any of his gripes, or using us fans to help him push for what he wanted. We also had great men like John Smith and Peter Robinson conducting business for us - the exact polar opposites of Parry and H&G.

But anyway, instead of answering the answers, I will say this... I honestly think a lot of this stems from the fact that we have been completely ruined as fans by our success. In fact, Rafa created a terrible rod for his own back by winning the CL in his first season. Our expectations are quite laughable at times and no wonder fans of other clubs call us Whingeing Scousers.

Even through the lean years we have picked up trophies and our record would have been perfectly acceptable at other clubs. Imagine Portsmouth having the success we've had in the Ged/Rafa years. Fuck me. they made Harry Redknapp a free man of the city for winning the FA Cup. They even gave it to the spiv bastard after he'd kicked shit in their face and went to Spurs - a full two days after he'd fucked off.

We're not Pompey you will say. I know we are not - we boo when going top of the league. They sing non stop when getting twatted 8 - 0. But other than that, we have things in common - we're both skint and we have turmoil in the boardroom. But we expect, no demand, to win league titles against the most formidable richest opponents we have ever faced.

I think alot of this has to do with this fucking awful time of instant celebrity, fame and riches. No one wants to earn things now. A lot of young people have a smaller attention span than a goldfish. Yeah. I might be an auld bastard, but I don't watch highlights of Man U or Arsenal on MOTD and think they play like that for 90 minutes week in week out. And I'm certainly not having a go at young people. I know some cracking young reds. But it does seem to be an age thing. The problem is building a successful football team and leaving a lasting legace, still requires the sort of time it did in the glory years. I never hear any of these gripes in the auld arse thread.

After Saturday's wonder goal, one young fella on here said to me in all seriousness... We should buy Koncheski. When I pointed out the last time he scored a goal, it was really a cock up of a cross against us I was just surprised he even remembered we'd been to Cardiff. That's why I just say fuck off to most people who have lost faith in Rafa - they haven't got a fucking clue and just regurgitate what they are force fed by the media. "Skywashed" as someone on here named it.

I've no idea how old the OP is, but I just wish people like KOTP - who's probably far cleverer than me - would take the time to think of what could happen if Rafa jumps or is pushed.

Where would that leave us? In complete disarray, I'd think. And how long would it take us to pull out of it? Lets face it, even if a great manager was to come in under the best of circumstances, it would still take him time to implement his plans. I think, well, I'm practically certain, Arsene Wenger won the league in his first attempt. But he did take over a great side and had/has a good boardroom behind him.

So KOTP, as me Ninna would say, be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.

Rafa sackers, really need to develop a little patientce. His lot is not an easy one. The boardroom will never give him there full support - we should.

But if he hasn't delivered the title in a couple of season's, when he's been allowed to buy the players he wants - within a set budget - I will join you. But I won't be doing it in slyly veiled little snipes. I'll be calling for his head good and proper. But until that time has clearly come, I'm fucked if I want to lose the best manager we've had since Sir Bob before he's had time to finish the job.



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Offline west_london_red

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #573 on: January 21, 2009, 12:50:20 am »
For those who asked.

Rafa vs Houllier

For me these are both GREAT managers in their own right, I have as some know posted claiming IMO that Houllier is the better manager.
Some have thrown back the predictable Rafa won 2 titles in  Spain, but choose not to mention the 3 Titles Gerard won In France.

All I ask is understand this is my opinion, their is no right or wrong awnser.

                    Houllier                                                             Rafa

Lg Titles           3                                                                     2
Dom cups         3                                                                     1
Uefa cups         1                                                                     1
Cl cup               0                                                                     1
Uefa sc             1                                                                     1

Lg pos.              4th,3rd,5th                                                  5th,4th,3rd,4th
                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
money spent    £126,000000                                                  £171000000
Recouped         £56000000                                                     £90000000

Note Houllier was behind the development of Frances Youth policy that saw him manage France to victory in the U19 championships 2 years later France were world champions and Gerards contribution was recognised as being vital to this victory.


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Offline woof

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #574 on: January 21, 2009, 12:50:24 am »
FS & Andy, do you think he could seriously leave?
Why not? Rafa is a winner and he wants to league at what is becoming the world's most difficult league. That's a personal challenge. If he thinks he's been impeded by management and prevented from achieving his goals, anyone would leave except for Kevin Keegan who would have been in Bahamas by now

Offline RedandWhiteYank

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #575 on: January 21, 2009, 12:51:16 am »
I don't care about losses. I would gladly have lost more if it meant that some of the draws became wins.

I really cant agree with this more. Rafa seems content to take his one point and move on. When we get a lead we seem to lay back and play more defensively instead of trying to push our advantage and try to make more of it.

Offline Redeye

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #576 on: January 21, 2009, 12:51:31 am »

Getting nostalgic but its relevant....do you remember the 85/86 season when Everton won at Anfield thanks to a Grobbelaar howler which put them clear with about five games to go?? Going by the crap on here Kenny would have been sacked and denied his double 2 months later...people need to get a grip

There were plenty more than five games to go. However, your point remains valid.

Kenny would have been sacked and denied his double.

And Shanks - yes the same Shanks whose statue dominates our Kop end - well he never won ANYTHING - league, cup, Europe, anything for seven years did he? Yet he's still rightly regarded as the man who built LFC.

A message to all the JohnNie Come latelies - Leave Rafa alone AND LET HIM FULFIL HIS DREAM.
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Offline Fat Scouser

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #577 on: January 21, 2009, 12:53:24 am »
Yes, lad. Of course he could. He's got previous.

I honestly think the only reason he's still here is that he's such a stubborn bastard. People use that against him. But if it wasn't for that trait, I think he'd have already said fuck this melarkey and done one. But he's on a mission and won't give in. But will he stay like that?

His detractors also keep banging on about closed doors. But none of us really know how bad it is behind them closed doors. But the little we do know - which we only know because he let us know - is bad enough.

Ask yourself this, would you keep going to work under these circumstances when you could walk into practically any top job in Europe?

I believe Rafa when he says how much he loves us fans, the club and the city, but I'm not foolish enough to think that's what keeps him here. It's the weather.

But seriously, would you want your kids growing up in a completely alien culture and way of life? Would you want to give up your own culture and way of life? Would you want to be pulling out your tripes and constantly get leathered by the likes of Paul Merson and all the other genius punters? More importantly would you like to be pulling your tripes out for people that you want to bring success to, and then watch them turn on you and treat you no better than the media?

I could go on but you get my drift. And to answer one of me own questions, if I thought the very people I'm trying for, and making sacrifices for to do it, I would ask meself... Is there any point?

And reading some of the stuff in here, and hearing the moans, groans a booing at Anfield - me answer would definetely be Is It Fuck.
I answered you earlier
"A peasant you are. A peasant you will remain. And we shall use all our wealth and power, to make your lot even worse and keep you exactly where you are, Bondage!"    The Boy King, Richard II, after  putting down the The Peasants Revolt in 1381.

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Offline Jfoz18

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #578 on: January 21, 2009, 12:54:12 am »
fat scouser has pulled out the best post consistently on this thread ive read for a while, agree with everythin youve said. Superb

Offline slimbo

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #579 on: January 21, 2009, 12:55:19 am »
i don't understand this "win one lose one instead of drawing 2" argument that seems to have become prevalent.......what makes anyone honestly believe that a different approach would actually have that impact?  a more risky approach could just a s easily result in us losing those 2 games.....and i'm sure everyone would be really understanding about that ffs

try another scenario....draw 3, 3 points.....win 1 lose 2 3 points, same result......which one is the more acceptable?  which one will have the fans hitting the managers eject button?

deal with facts.....the draws are disappointing and a number will be viewed as 2 points dropped, it is now up to the manager and the team to pick up as many points as possible in the next 17 games....51 points would be nice, but honestly, when was the last time anyone did that (no draws or losses)?  so we may be chasing the mancs, but at least we are within striking distance, rafa will ultimately be judged on our position at the end of the season and hopefully that judgement will be a good one

It's really not that hard to understand. Draws should be seen as points lost unless you are going into a game thinking you can't win it; then a draw may be considered as good as a win.

It's all about belief and confidence in what you do. You go all out to win every game right until the last second, and you have the belief that you can win every game because your capable of it.

Rafa talks about mentality all the time. Well lets get a winning mentality where we believe there's still an extra goal in it for us if we keep up the pressure. Not the sit back and defend this that we've allowed to creep into our game.

Over the course of a season it's not the odd loss here and there that steal titles, it's draws against teams you should beat.


Having said all that and staying in the context of this thread, I do believe it's still a learning curve for Rafa. Yes he's been here a while now but we have seen some changes in his methods, eg rotation, where he has seemed to learn what it takes to win in the PL. Perhaps if we don't win this season the lessons will be well learned by Rafa with regards to our draws and desire to kill off a game right to the end.

He is stubborn and sometimes it takes huge disappointment to make yourself change some of those things you once thought could never change. Personally I hope so, because for the most part we are frustrating to watch and the changes  during the game don't bring any more inspiration.

Offline steveeastend

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #580 on: January 21, 2009, 12:58:55 am »
I answered you earlier

Ah thanks! Missed that. Maybe him turning to the press was his last try to turn the whole thing..

btw loved that part how you described the liverpool way of life... Is it really an alien kind  place to live?... ;)
« Last Edit: January 21, 2009, 01:01:09 am by steveeastend »
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #581 on: January 21, 2009, 01:01:17 am »
There were plenty more than five games to go. However, your point remains valid.

Kenny would have been sacked and denied his double.

And Shanks - yes the same Shanks whose statue dominates our Kop end - well he never won ANYTHING - league, cup, Europe, anything for seven years did he? Yet he's still rightly regarded as the man who built LFC.

A message to all the JohnNie Come latelies - Leave Rafa alone AND LET HIM FULFIL HIS DREAM.
I have been trying to ram that home all day. Shanks would have probably never lasted in this day and age.

And please stop saying, I know what I'm saying. I'm fucking thick. I've just been around for ages and had the luck to see great teams and be educated by great fans - far mor knowlegable than me
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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #582 on: January 21, 2009, 01:11:11 am »
Ah thanks! Missed that. Maybe him turning to the press was his last try to turn the whole thing..

btw loved that part how you described the liverpool way of life... Is it really an alien kind  place to live?... ;)
Yeah. It's full of big buggy eyed fellas with tins of corned beef for chins and pit pony legs. Ooops that's Riera and he's Italian.

As for the Rafa's learning melarkey, I hate that. How fucking condescending is that. And does anyone have the stats on this season's rotation compared to others? I'm sure it's not that different.
"A peasant you are. A peasant you will remain. And we shall use all our wealth and power, to make your lot even worse and keep you exactly where you are, Bondage!"    The Boy King, Richard II, after  putting down the The Peasants Revolt in 1381.

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #583 on: January 21, 2009, 01:15:06 am »
I thought this was going to be a silly comparison of the untimely illnesses.
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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #584 on: January 21, 2009, 01:23:17 am »
Fuckinell, after getting quizzed and missing me much needed beauty sleep, I go to open another can and everyone bails out while me back is turned. Fickle, Liverpool fans - nah, never.
"A peasant you are. A peasant you will remain. And we shall use all our wealth and power, to make your lot even worse and keep you exactly where you are, Bondage!"    The Boy King, Richard II, after  putting down the The Peasants Revolt in 1381.

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Offline KOTP

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #585 on: January 21, 2009, 01:29:30 am »
lol iam still about if u wanna go around again :D

Offline EdEdP

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #586 on: January 21, 2009, 01:31:46 am »
I'm lacking faith in him at the moment but I honestly don't see who could replace him now and how they could make an instant impact.

We are falling by the way side at the moment but let's just see how things pan out over the next few weeks. He's made a few mistakes but this is the time to come back fighting. Let's see what Rafa has in him.
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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #587 on: January 21, 2009, 01:33:18 am »
lol iam still about if u wanna go around again :D
Think it's been done now mate. But I have a full pint can of Carling in front of me. Believe it or not, I used to be quite slim Scouser before I stopped playing at age of 40 and starting sitting around doing shite like this and drinking loads of cans. Oh well, shit happens as our colonial cousins say
"A peasant you are. A peasant you will remain. And we shall use all our wealth and power, to make your lot even worse and keep you exactly where you are, Bondage!"    The Boy King, Richard II, after  putting down the The Peasants Revolt in 1381.

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Offline Fat Scouser

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #588 on: January 21, 2009, 01:36:16 am »
I'm lacking faith in him at the moment but I honestly don't see who could replace him now and how they could make an instant impact.

We are falling by the way side at the moment but let's just see how things pan out over the next few weeks. He's made a few mistakes but this is the time to come back fighting. Let's see what Rafa has in him.
How the fuck are we fallin by the way side? Not having a go at you personally lad, but this is what drives me mad.

Take a deep breath and look at your avitar... you wouldn't have it if not for Rafa
"A peasant you are. A peasant you will remain. And we shall use all our wealth and power, to make your lot even worse and keep you exactly where you are, Bondage!"    The Boy King, Richard II, after  putting down the The Peasants Revolt in 1381.

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #589 on: January 21, 2009, 01:37:00 am »
Think it's been done now mate. But I have a full pint can of Carling in front of me. Believe it or not, I used to be quite slim Scouser before I stopped playing at age of 40 and starting sitting around doing shite like this and drinking loads of cans. Oh well, shit happens as our colonial cousins say

smame with me i was a skinny kid once now i'm about 17-19 stone due to lager and red wine which i just finishin a bottle of before i head to the land of bed

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #590 on: January 21, 2009, 01:38:08 am »
smame with me i was a skinny kid once now i'm about 17-19 stone due to lager and red wine which i just finishin a bottle of before i head to the land of bed
Lager's the baddie lad. But I fucking love it
"A peasant you are. A peasant you will remain. And we shall use all our wealth and power, to make your lot even worse and keep you exactly where you are, Bondage!"    The Boy King, Richard II, after  putting down the The Peasants Revolt in 1381.

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Offline shanklyboy

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #591 on: January 21, 2009, 01:46:59 am »
It appears from your post that your main criticism of Benitez are his 'constant baffling tactical decisions' and cite what you see as examples of these during the Everton game.If this is the basis for your OP and unless you can come up with some other substantiated examples of this, your thoughts and argument lose all credibilty, if there was any to lose.
Opinions about why we conceded last night are wide and varied and none can be proven to be the root cause.I certainly don't want to go into them in this thread. What I will say is that if someone had picked Cahill up we would have won the game.It's as simple as that. Nothing to do with 'baffling tactics', nothing to do with team selection.Certainly nothing to do with Benitez.

Your other reason is that players have been bought for vast amounts that that you didn't rate.Which players are they?

So just to recap before I get all of this information from you.
The reasons you are comparing the capability of Benitez winning the title to Houillier is the way we conceded againsEverton and players you didn'trate and thought were overpriced
Over to you.
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Offline KOTP

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #592 on: January 21, 2009, 01:49:49 am »
It appears from your post that your main criticism of Benitez are his 'constant baffling tactical decisions' and cite what you see as examples of these during the Everton game.If this is the basis for your OP and unless you can come up with some other substantiated examples of this, your thoughts and argument lose all credibilty, if there was any to lose.
Opinions about why we conceded last night are wide and varied and none can be proven to be the root cause.I certainly don't want to go into them in this thread. What I will say is that if someone had picked Cahill up we would have won the game.It's as simple as that. Nothing to do with 'baffling tactics', nothing to do with team selection.Certainly nothing to do with Benitez.

Your other reason is that players have been bought for vast amounts that that you didn't rate.Which players are they?

So just to recap before I get all of this information from you.
The reasons you are comparing the capability of Benitez winning the title to Houillier is the way we conceded againsEverton and players you didn'trate and thought were overpriced
Over to you.

again you are missing your point with your last paragraph i aint comparing houllier to rafa as i have constantly stated. i am comparing the feelin i had in late 01 early 02 that houllier had taken us as far as he has come and what i am feeling now under rafa. i have only usedto tactical decisions from last ngihts game as they where the most fresh in my mind i could go back and use a lot more if you want

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #593 on: January 21, 2009, 01:56:30 am »
Alright Shanks mate, getting off to bed now. But... yesterday in the pre match thread, I said we could be in trouble if we gave them any set pieces anywhere near our box.

The beauts all told me to fuck off and carried on with thier "We'll twat the Blushite" nonsense. Most of them have been in here at some point calling for Rafa's head.
But the original poster isn't a bad kid. He's just got the patientce of a 20 odd year old.
So don't leather him.

And you KOTP, should learn from a man who knows a bit about what he says.
"A peasant you are. A peasant you will remain. And we shall use all our wealth and power, to make your lot even worse and keep you exactly where you are, Bondage!"    The Boy King, Richard II, after  putting down the The Peasants Revolt in 1381.

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #594 on: January 21, 2009, 02:05:40 am »
The only similarities between Rafa and Ged is they both got sick.

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #595 on: January 21, 2009, 02:09:28 am »
The only similarities between Rafa and Ged is they both got sick.
I liked Le Boss. I always will. He stopped the rot and got us back on track. I will always be grateful and think of well of him.
"A peasant you are. A peasant you will remain. And we shall use all our wealth and power, to make your lot even worse and keep you exactly where you are, Bondage!"    The Boy King, Richard II, after  putting down the The Peasants Revolt in 1381.

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #596 on: January 21, 2009, 02:13:09 am »
Fuckinell, I'm wide awake and there's fuck all on the telly except something that I think is supposed to be a werewolf but looks like an aul fella in a fur coat and yankee brats going on about shagging. Fuckinell, I really do need to take up knitting or something
"A peasant you are. A peasant you will remain. And we shall use all our wealth and power, to make your lot even worse and keep you exactly where you are, Bondage!"    The Boy King, Richard II, after  putting down the The Peasants Revolt in 1381.

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Offline shanklyboy

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #597 on: January 21, 2009, 02:19:48 am »
again you are missing your point with your last paragraph i aint comparing houllier to rafa as i have constantly stated. i am comparing the feelin i had in late 01 early 02 that houllier had taken us as far as he has come and what i am feeling now under rafa. i have only usedto tactical decisions from last ngihts game as they where the most fresh in my mind i could go back and use a lot more if you want

That's the comparison I was referring to when I said....".The reasons you are comparing the capability of Benitez winning the title to Houillier"..... I thought that was fairly clear.
Yes I'd like you to tell me what other 'baffling tactical decisions' make you think Benitez won't win the title and give you the same feeling you had with Houllier.
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Offline YoungandIgnorant

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #598 on: January 21, 2009, 02:22:53 am »
I have to admit, I haven't read all the replies and discussion in this thread. As much more of a lurker than poster that's quite unusual for me, but I feel the need to post on this topic.

I'm a younger Red. Twenty-three.

I'd imagine most people calling reactionally for Rafa's head after losses(or even draws!) would be placed somewhere near my own age.

I can only vaguely remember football before Sky - sadly, against my own will, I am one of the Sky generation. We belong to a time of constant media exposure to our sport, constant headlines, constant debate, constant bullshit spouted out by pundits and experts without the balls to manage a club themselves or even go against the common perception of footballing cliches.

And it messes with your head. It messes with my head.

This is my first time experiencing a real, concrete challenge for this title we all want so fucking badly. And it tells on me. Every dropped point, every decision that goes against us, every word thrown out in a verbal sparring match. It fucking exhausts me.

But this is it.

This is what we - I, at least - begged for, for as long as I could remember. We are in there. Mixing it up. Trading blows with the from the East Lancs and those nobodies from London. Fighting for every point.

And when I remember that, I remember WHY every dropped point hurts - because they have never mattered as much as they do now. They have never counted as they do this season.

We have a chance. It hurts me when we drop points...but this is a fucking TITLE RACE. Something only those of us old enough to appreciate 1990 - which I cannot - can truly understand. We're in it! We're fighting for our crown.

Who brought us there?

That's all I ask.

If you will cast your mind back to 2004. Our top striker decides to leave because his home club, one of Europe's elite, cannot match his ambition. Our club had failed to reply to going one nil down to so long it had become a running joke. Laughed at even in our own league - and mocked, by proxy, by the actions of our best player - for our gutlessness and lack of ambition.

And in Europe...

Those four cups we all hold so dear seemed like long ago, distant memories, as revelant to those in my age group as tales of King Arthur and Excalbiur. Mere legends, fanciful tales spoken in bragging but sentimental tones around firesides the world over.

Rafael Benetiz.

If you can remember where we were when he took over, you can remember what e, and he alone, brought us. Back to the forefront of European dominance. Replacing players like Diao and Diouf with the likes of Mascherano and Torres. Making us look like a real title contending team for the first time since...well, a very long time.

He takes abuse from our press, our own owners, and some of our fans. He faces an impossible mission - to restore a proud, but battered institution to its rightful place atop what is now the hardest league in the world to win.

And here we are, near February, fighting for it.

IN THE MIX.

And to all those pissing and moaning here, ask yourselves this- if you had been offered this position before the season started, would you have taken it?

Down the Lancs, all we heard and see is confidence, while here we splutter and worry and bite our nails like frightened little schoolgirls. I have been guilty of it myself at times this season. But we're undermining ourselves. Our players, our manager, our staff - OUR FUCKING TEAM - need us one and all behind them.

No in-fighting. No OOT vs Scouser. No superfan vs whopper. No optimist vs pessimist. No fucking nothing.

Our team needs us.

Rafa can takes us there, of that I truly believe. But only if we give him the chance. We've been starved too long, have waited patiently only to be denied time after time. It shows in our behaviour. Like a starved animal we squirm and howl and struggle in vain for what we need.

But our struggle has come close to ending - all we need now is the fucking bottle to see this through.

And if we fall short - is it Rafa's fault?

It took that piss stained fucking wino Ferguson many title challenges to win his first one - and look what followed.

Offline shanklyboy

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #599 on: January 21, 2009, 02:23:35 am »
Fuckinell, I'm wide awake and there's fuck all on the telly except something that I think is supposed to be a werewolf but looks like an aul fella in a fur coat and yankee brats going on about shagging. Fuckinell, I really do need to take up knitting or something

You need another hobby mate.
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