Topic: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"

[RK7]

He's beyond that mate! I'd love to see Houllier win 2 Spanish titles in 3 seasons with a limited budget up against Barca and Real.

I dint want this to be taken out of context, I do not want Rafa out.
But why refer to his achievement in Spain? its history a great achievement granted but the only barometer you can use to compare the two is what they have done at Liverpool, Houllier never managed in Spain.

[DangerScouse]

i cant see them installing klinsmann now due to the fact his stock has gone down as he has now had a year in charge of a club and not done very well i think at the time klinsmann was suggested was as he was in the news being hailed as a good manager after his performances with germany but that has now been shown to be down to low

At least you're consistent. Bayern are second on goal difference! 

[cal_liverpoolfc]

Houllier was a better manager than Rafa no doubt, but saying that without Rafa we could well be worse off. Better the devil you know.

You being serious?

[Romford_Red]

couldn't drag meself away, you are missing the point if he is not fit enough to play 90 minutes in the cold he should not be in the team at all.

Because Torres for 60,70,80 minutes is better than Torres for 0 minutes and it helps him get his fitness and form back.

[Fat Scouser]

i cant see them installing klinsmann now due to the fact his stock has gone down as he has now had a year in charge of a club and not done very well i think at the time klinsmann was suggested was as he was in the news being hailed as a good manager after his performances with germany but that has now been shown to be down to low

I never actually said Klinsman, I said a Klinsman type yes man who would just do as he's told. I'd rather rafa fight my corner, even if that means using the media.

As for an untried club manager at club level, I have a feeling Billjic will make a good manager one day. But it's not yet, and I can't honestly see any top manager wanting to take over and work for H&G. You would probably end up with some cack fella. So, I honestly see no option to support Rafa, although that's not why I do.

[SallyCinnamon]

At least you're consistent. Bayern are second on goal difference! 

[ALPH1217]

Its a feather in Rafa's cap that he won the Champions League with basically GH's team.

[Art Vandelay]

I don't think we can win the league with any manager in world football until we've been in a title challenge that lasts the majority of the season at least once.  The players, the fans, the staff all need to know what it's like in the modern footballing world to grind out the results needed to win the league, and also to feel the kind of pressure that that brings (with the added pressure of nearing 20 years without a title, and with the added pressure of our rivals getting very close to our total of titles). 

I don't understand how you can have the 'Houllier moment' of feeling that Rafa isn't the man for the job when we're in the position we are in at the moment....if we suddenly, having felt the title challenge pressure, wilt completely and end up miles behind with quite a few games left than I could perhaps understand it, but we've finally got into the position we need to be and this is the moment you feel that he can never win it?...that just doesn't make sense in my mind.

[Fat Scouser]

fair enough but there are countless posts suggesting that KOPT wants rafa sacked. thats not the way i interpret it.

the fella has his doubts similar to the doubts he had concerning houllier which proved to be well founded. i understand his concern and can see where he's coming from. i dont agree with it but like i said i can see where he's coming from. and i certainly dont see it as a vieled 'sack rafa' thread. just a concerned supporter airing his doubts

Nah mate. We've crossed swords before, so believe me... he wants rafa sacked. He's nearly came out and said it just can't quite bring himself to make the leap

[Romford_Red]

I don't think we can win the league with any manager in world football until we've been in a title challenge that lasts the majority of the season at least once.  The players, the fans, the staff all need to know what it's like in the modern footballing world to grind out the results needed to win the league, and also to feel the kind of pressure that that brings (with the added pressure of nearing 20 years without a title, and with the added pressure of our rivals getting very close to our total of titles). 

I think this is a very good point. If you look at recent(ish) times, both Man U and Chelsea had an 'almost' season the year before actually landing the big prize.

[Drewas]

Its a feather in Rafa's cap that he won the Champions League with basically GH's team.

People forget the media especially that Rafa's taken us to two Champions League finals in three years (and whos to say he wont make it 3 in 5).

If Wenger had done this Sky would be wetting themselves.

It makes me cringe a little when im told that Houllier won the triple!

[Fat Scouser]

I bet Manc fans were going through the same thing just before old Sponge Nose Whiskey Kecks won it.

[RK7]

Not got a problem if you'd care to explain why Houllier is better?

Rather than posting "fukin Clueless" why not say that? or just ignore it. You were fishing.

[Hyypia headers]

Was last night about tactics? For 70 minutes we had Kuyt, Keane, Torres, Gerrard, Alonso and Riera on, and we created fuck all. To me its not about the tactics anymore, or the players we have. Alright, we need a real RW, but what Kuyt does is enough to make the right side solid.


To me, it is all about believe. We don't really believe it, neither do the players or the staff or the manager. We all doubt each other to much. Look at the mancs, they were 7 points behind, now they could go 3 clear at the top. They believe in their own ability, in their own way of doing things. Some call it arrogance. Always remember, there is a fine line between arrogance and confidence.

The reasons Shankly lifted a club from mediocrity in the second division to the top of European football is believe. Shankly believed and made others believe. He made us believe we were untouchable.


"A lot of football success is in the mind. You must believe that you are the best and then make sure that you are. In my time at Liverpool we always said we had the best two teams in Merseyside, Liverpool and Liverpool reserves."

Bill Shankly


Arrogance or confidence, you decide. But we need to believe it before we can get it.

 

[faisfais]

I blame Phil Collins for starting this unfortunate chain of events culminating with these comparisons between Rafa and Houllier.

[RAFA - 6 - 19]

I think this is a very good point. If you look at recent(ish) times, both Man U and Chelsea had an 'almost' season the year before actually landing the big prize.

It seems people are not prepared to take the pain before triumph, fans want a leapfrog from 4th to 1st as they are more worried about united than what we are actually doing.  2nd would be a good achievement but it doesn't look as good if united win it.

[BCCC]

Rather than posting "fukin Clueless" why not say that? or just ignore it. You were fishing.

Not fishing just don't like people coming on throwing statements around without backing them up with a decent argument.

[Fat Scouser]

Was last night about tactics? For 70 minutes we had Kuyt, Keane, Torres, Gerrard, Alonso and Riera on, and we created fuck all. To me its not about the tactics anymore, or the players we have. Alright, we need a real RW, but what Kuyt does is enough to make the right side solid.


To me, it is all about believe. We don't really believe it, neither do the players or the staff or the manager. We all doubt each other to much. Look at the mancs, they were 7 points behind, now they could go 3 clear at the top. They believe in their own ability, in their own way of doing things. Some call it arrogance. Always remember, there is a fine line between arrogance and confidence.

The reasons Shankly lifted a club from mediocrity in the second division to the top of European football is believe. Shankly believed and made others believe. He made us believe we were untouchable.


"A lot of football success is in the mind. You must believe that you are the best and then make sure that you are. In my time at Liverpool we always said we had the best two teams in Merseyside, Liverpool and Liverpool reserves."

Bill Shankly


Arrogance or confidence, you decide. But we need to believe it before we can get it.

 

Maybe so, but would Shanks have survived his shite season's in these give me it and give me it now times?

[Fat Scouser]

I blame Phil Collins for starting this unfortunate chain of events culminating with these comparisons between Rafa and Houllier.

I blame Robbie Keane's mam.

[its cold in the stands]

I think this is a very good point. If you look at recent(ish) times, both Man U and Chelsea had an 'almost' season the year before actually landing the big prize.

and blackburn, they finished second behind united the season before they won it.

[Stussy]

quite easy as like i've pointed out to others like yourself that have misunderstood the title of the thread i am not questioning that rafa hasnt improved us since he take over the comparrison i am makin is to the feeling I got in around 2002 when i felt ged has run his course i am getting now with rafa. Of course he has improved us but the what i am saying is that he cant improve us to where we want to be as title winners

Knee jerk, snide and incoherent comparison. We are still in a title chase and you want to give the last rites to our season in January, invoking the rudderless, turgid, direful dying breaths of Ged's reign, which was marked by desperate performances at this stage of his final seasons, in which we were not anywhere in the mix. You can't disassociate that from the comparison you have drawn.

[walshys_mullet]

What have i missed?

[RAFA - 6 - 19]

I bet Manc fans were going through the same thing just before old Sponge Nose Whiskey Kecks won it.

brilliant, cracked me up, sponge nose whisky kecks!
Just look at Taggart's early years people!

 It was easier back then though as people were not rushing home for x factor to vote off people after they had elected to vote off the players and manager

[steveeastend]

I never actually said Klinsman, I said a Klinsman type yes man who would just do as he's told. I'd rather rafa fight my corner, even if that means using the media.

As for an untried club manager at club level, I have a feeling Billjic will make a good manager one day. But it's not yet, and I can't honestly see any top manager wanting to take over and work for H&G. You would probably end up with some cack fella. So, I honestly see no option to support Rafa, although that's not why I do.

Yes, yes. Besies that, you know how much control Klinsmann was asking for at Bayern? Total control. And he almost failed in fall. Klinsmann is the opposite of his look. Doesn´t make ANY compromise at all when it comes to getting every power he needs to achieve his goals.


No way there´s a Klinsmann or Bilic ready for a club like Liverpool. No way.

[Hyypia headers]

Maybe so, but would Shanks have survived his shite season's in these give me it and give me it now times?

Probably not, but that doesn't take away his way of doing things worked and still works today.

[its cold in the stands]

Maybe so, but would Shanks have survived his shite season's in these give me it and give me it now times?

would ferguson?
it`s well known he won absolutely f##k all for about 6 years (but then won the f.a cup and cup winners cup) but lets face it, their board did well not to sack him because although he had a 2nd place he also finished about 11th and 16th in those 6 years.
they had banners out in old trafford saying `ta ra fergie - not good enough` as well.
what the united board realised is that it takes years to instill a winning attitude in a club.

[John C]

the man arrives when we are at arguably the lowest point this club had been in since shankly took over, we had a squad full of overpriced flops with little or no sell on value (biscan, le tallec, cheyrou, diao, diouf etc).

Therein lys the difference of opinions, some will argue Biscan was brilliant - I'm on Rafa's side on this subject since he let him at the very first opportunity.
Amongst a group of people with a common desire and love for a single source, there is a gulf of opinion as to whether this season is satisfactory or not. Currently no one is correct because MU may contine to drop points making it easy for us to take the PL, or we may continue to draw at home making the season worse than anticipated.
 
Plenty of footy to play yet, which also means there's plenty of opportunity's for both Rafa & Keane to show they are winners or also-rans. Contributing to an exciting December now needs a bit more guile to become a winner.

[Fat Scouser]

I'm off to poke me eyes out with a shitty stick and cut off me typing finger, but... remember after Istanbul, every daft c*nt of a pundit and his dog tipped us to win the league next season. All the knee jerkers believed them even though it was obviously not on. It's no different now. It's not even wasting me time on. I'll have to take up knitting or something.

Shite like this doesn't get to me. It's the fact that, we actually could be on the verge of Rafa leaving and I firmly believe that will set us back years. I just hope, if it happens, we aren't 4 or 5 behind the mancs. I couldn't bear that.
 

[Deadlogic]

You know how much control Klinsmann was asking for at Bayern? Total control. Klinsmann is the opposite of his look. Doesn´t make ANY compromise at all when it comes to getting every power he needs to achieve his goals. Germans don´t make compromises. That´s why they are successful.

Zey are very efficient of course.

In other news, this thread is shocking really. 

I know they say opinion's are like arseholes, and everyone's got them - but it seems now that it's the arsehole's who have the opinions.

We're joint top, and YES before the pedants point out "if the season ended today we wouldn't win the league..." - but we are without a shadow of a doubt,  (and if a European Cup/FA Cup/Super Cup/Charity Shield/European Cup Final Appearance/World Club Final aren't progress then, what the fuck constitutes as success with this Sky obsessed generation?) progressing under Rafa.  What's makes the progression even more astounding, is he's doing it under some of the most turbulent times in our history.

The man deserves a fucking medal for that alone, and he also deserves more respect than some of you lot on here are giving him.

[west_london_red]

I'm off to poke me eyes out with a shitty stick and cut off me typing finger, but... remember after Istanbul, every daft c*nt of a pundit and his dog tipped us to win the league next season. All the knee jerkers believed them even though it was obviously not on. It's no different now. It's not even wasting me time on. I'll have to take up knitting or something.

Mate, its going to happen again, we're going to win the Champions League this seson, all these moody c*nts will be back here hailing Rafa as the greatest manager ever.

[steveeastend]

Zey are very efficient of course.

In other news, this thread is shocking really. 

I know they say opinion's are like arseholes, and everyone's got them - but it seems now that it's the arsehole's who have the opinions.

We're joint top, and YES before the pedants point out "if the season ended today we wouldn't win the league..." - but we are without a shadow of a doubt,  (and if a European Cup/FA Cup/Super Cup/Charity Shield/European Cup Final Appearance/World Club Final aren't progress then, what the fuck constitutes as success with this Sky obsessed generation?) progressing under Rafa.  What's makes the progression even more astounding, is he's doing it under some of the most turbulent times in our history.

The man deserves a fucking medal for that alone, and he also deserves more respect than some of you lot on here are giving him.

I am on Rafas side. I just wanted to point out that it´s a normal thing to aks for total control as a manager especially when it comes to transfers. Rafa still hasn´t and got to where we are now. There is no other option right now. Klinsmann isn´t experienced enough. Bayern finished 2nd after Hoffenheim with the likes of Ribery who are head and shoulders over the rest of the league.

Sacking Rafa would set us years behind as well. We are so close. We need just a little patience and the board to give Rafa total control how to spend the given transfer budget.

cheers
St


btw Does anybody think he could seriously be leaving?

[Nick110581]

Mate, its going to happen again, we're going to win the Champions League this seson, all these moody c*nts will be back here hailing Rafa as the greatest manager ever.

But he is too negative for that isn't he?

[RAFA - 6 - 19]

i think rafa will be looked back upon as the man who saved us. He flushed out the yanks, is exposing Parry, his political moves over the years have been very good and he is certainly for the fans.

He doesn't always get it right but maybe he would do better if he had the players he wanted.

Will Fergie get praised for playing a few first teamers including Ronaldo, albeit as a sub, in the carling cup considering rafael, nani, anderson, o'shea and evans all got injured?

[Nick110581]

i think rafa will be looked back upon as the man who saved us. He flushed out the yanks, is exposing Parry, his political moves over the years have been very good and he is certainly for the fans.

He doesn't always get it right but maybe he would do better if he had the players he wanted.

Will Fergie get praised for playing a few first teamers including Ronaldo, albeit as a sub, in the carling cup considering rafael, nani, anderson, o'shea and evans all got injured?

Fergie is beyond criticism.

[west_london_red]

But he is too negative for that isn't he?

Is he cautious? Yes he is. Is he too cautious? Probably. Do we look like loosing a game? No we dont. Is a draw a bad result in the PL? Usually. Is a draw a bad result in the CL? Usually not.

[Nick110581]

Is he cautious? Yes he is. Is he too cautious? Probably. Do we look like loosing a game? No we dont. Is a draw a bad result in the PL? Usually. Is a draw a bad result in the CL? Usually not.

I was fishing mate. Apologies.

Think this thread is a fucking embarrassment.

[steveeastend]

Does anybody think he could seriously leave?

[RAFA - 6 - 19]

Fergie is beyond criticism.

as united are the darling of the media and sky sports.  However a few more injuries in the fa cup and the fact they have a lot of games could hurt them. They are starting to struggle injury wise.  If Vidic and ronaldo get knocks they will be in massive trouble.

This can only benefit us as we have a fully fit squad apart from degen who has not featured anyway!

Maybe our fitness and strength will show and this season really is a carbon copy of Rafa's time at valencia where he was criticised, drew with lesser teams, didnt lose many and the rotation and fitness benefited the team at the end!

I live in hope!

[RAFA - 6 - 19]

Does anybody think he could seriously leave?

No because i think Hicks realises Rafa can win the cl and finish high in the league.  Reports are indicating that the cl is worth up to a 100 million this year and the prem prize money is not bad.  There is no guarantee a new manager will even get fourth with our squad considering the strength of the prem and the fact rafa goes for a team effort rather than individuals so any new manager would probably need an overhaul.

[west_london_red]

I was fishing mate. Apologies.

Think this thread is a fucking embarrassment.

Yep, I feel like a Newcastle fan....