Topic: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"

[Walking Through A Storm]

I find it repugnant that we're even having this discussion now, with our best chance since we last won it and a team littered with stars of Rafa's choosing.

To be honest it this sort of knee jerk view and lack of any sort of long term approach that will undermine us for number 19.

The nervousness & negativity is all pervasive and you can see its virtually paralysed our crowd, away days what was always pretty much guaranteed are regularly damp squibs.

Absolutely. To be honest, I think there'd be none of this talk if we were on one of our "usual" seasons.

[SallyCinnamon]

I find it repugnant that we're even having this discussion now, with our best chance since we last won it and a team littered with stars of Rafa's choosing.

To be honest it this sort of knee jerk view and lack of any sort of long term approach that will undermine us for number 19.

The nervousness & negativity is all pervasive and you can see its virtually paralysed our crowd, away days what was always pretty much guaranteed are regularly damp squibs.

Have to stay out of this and many more threads due to my warning level.

[litmanen37]

houllier was never the same after his operations

ah so Rafa having an op to remove kidney stones is the real reason that you think he is incapable!

[rafabenihill]

Thats not the point though. They're still there, they could have left (especially Lampard) but chose to stay. If they'd felt so strongly about Mourinho leaving then they would have done one as well.

Any manager we'll get will not want to sell his best players. Let's not associate the possible departure of Rafa with the possible exits of Torres and Reina and the rest.

ok brentie
if Rafa does not win the league, u get your wish to bring in Rijkaard..
its all getting a bit tiring

[KOTP]

ah so Rafa having an op to remove kidney stones is the real reason that you think he is incapable!

lol yep must be evertonians that operate on them and install somethin in there body

[Brentieke]

Chelsea were successful before Mourinho.  Lampard made his name at Chelsea, there's too much for him to risk by moving on because he's a limited player.  Likewise Carragher would not leave if Rafa was to go.
There is a multitude of difference between playing for Liverpool and playing for Chelsea.  We have to work hard to stay in the top 3 whereas Chelsea will spend millions on a new manager and whatever players he wants, they are guaranteeed a top 3 finish and CL each season. 

There is also a myriad of difference between living in Liverpool and London as a footballer. 
No doubt in my mind, if Rafa was to go then 5-6 players would not be far behind.  Maybe not following him, but certainly not hanging around to see if another manager can come up with another 5 year plan.  They want to compete for the top prizes.  With Rafa we are doing so but without him we will be back to 2004/05, HOPING for miracles rather than expecting them.

Remember the banner, "make us dream"? 
DREAM!  That's all we could do then, so far away from challenging we were that winning the European Cup was the last thing we ever expected!
Fast forward now, half the fans EXPECT to win it or the title this year! 

Let's agree to disagree then. Dont think Reina's fate or Torres' one is related to Rafa's especially not if we someone of the calibre, LA Liga experience and attacking mindset of Rijkard.

As for the second bit, I agree Rafa has taken us a long way but that was his job, that is what he was expected to do. what else did you expect after 5 seasons? To be still struggling for 4th? Houllier took us a long way too mate, and it looked for a while he would be the one to bring home number 19.

But he falted at the final strecth and then the team started going backwards. Let's hope the same doesnt happen with Rafa.

[cal_liverpoolfc]

I think one of the biggest problem to be honest is the anxiety of the crowd getting to the players. They can sense we are nervous and it gets to them.

[Guz-kop]

Rafa's houllier moment may be viewed as spending ~£35m in one summer on Keane, Riera and Dossena but still having problems getting creativity from wide areas and having a striker who has been a complete flop. Similar to the dreaded summer of Diouf, Diao and Cheyrou that has almost gone down in history

But....

We're doing far better than what we did that season (where we capitulated after the first week of November) and I suspect that we'll keep pace near the top of the league and Rafa will get another chance to spend big in the summer and find more alternatives.

[xerxes1]

The heading for this on the main thread reads : "Rafa's Houllier Mom", fuck me I thought, what a time to come out as a Trans sexual!

[shanklyboy]

there where numerous things at the time when i realised houllier couldnt take us further (i'm assumin that is what you are askin) at the time he was payin vast amounts for palyers that i thought where overrated, then playing them out of position and his tactics which i thought he was getting constantly wrong and where affecting our performances. houllier was never the same after his operations and its hardly suprising, and personally this got him  12-18 months longer with both the fans and the board

I see.

[AlanK]

What a ridiculous thing to say. This is not a kneejerk response afetr one draw.

This is a response after seeing our title challenge in danger of slipping. After a terrible run of 5 wins out of 12. An awfull run of 1 win in 5 at home. 2 years without winning a trophy, 4 seasons without a title challenge. Mistakes being repeated, cautiousness exibited, the same problems not being adressed, clear favoritism to certain players, sheer stubborness with others, transfer mistakes this summer etc etc...

First 10 games of the season Rafa deserved a 10 out of 10, 8 win and 2 draws, pro active subs and attacking mindset. Next 12 games, 5 out of 10 would be pushing it. Reverted to his cautious self, some weird team selections (Alonso dropped against Fulahm, Kuyt up front alone for many oif those games), even stranger subs, mouthing off to the press about everything....

Something has not been right in the camp since the Chelsea result.

This is a response to the first genuine title challenge we've had in years, when we're starting to see our days of scrapping for 4the slip away. After our going through a bad patch of only 5 wins out of twelve and still being up at the top of the table, level on points with the leaders. After a glorious 5th European cup and an Fa cup in 4 years, and continuous improvement in the personnel of the squad, incredible combacks both at home and away, wonderful victories against our rivals in the title race and the beginning of great side once again, all without the best striker in Europe for a long period time.

Something has been very right in the camp since Rafa took over

[Brentieke]

Rafa's houllier moment may be viewed as spending ~£35m in one summer on Keane, Riera and Dossena but still having problems getting creativity from wide areas and having a striker who has been a complete flop. Similar to the dreaded summer of Diouf, Diao and Cheyrou that has almost gone down in history

But....

We're doing far better than what we did that season (where we capitulated after the first week of November) and I suspect that we'll keep pace near the top of the league and Rafa will get another chance to spend big in the summer and find more alternatives.

For me  their coments to the media:

10 games away from greatness- 80% chance of winning the league....

As for the second bit, if we do I'd have no problem with him staying but it is imperative we keep tugging away near the top.

[Swieve]

I firmly believe that we will not win the league this year. 

Manchester Utd will win the league this year.

As awful as that sounds, that's probably what will happen this season.  Not that I wish for it.  I will still be supporting the team and our manager wholeheartedly.  I still hope I am very wrong. I'm one of those who never gives up on the hope until it is an impossible task.

Two important words; Progress and Perspective

Progress - year on year this team has progressed, the squad is getting stronger.  The facts are there for ALL to see.  Best Premier League and Champions League start we've ever had.  Level on points at the top of the table with just 16 games to go. 

Perspective - For years we have said "If only we could at least challenge for the league" and "FFS, out of it before Christmas".  This season we are challenging and its nearly February.  Most of us just wanted to be in with a shout this season.  Not the usual XX amount of points behind the leader at Christmas.  Well? We have got what we have asked for. 

Houllier had problems.  He was never the same after the operation.  Mind you, he built a team not unlike the one Moyes has at Everton.  A tough defensive unit but we had Michael Owen and and an emerging Steven Gerrard coming through.  And we were ultra-defensive.  People think Rafa is negative but tend to forget that under Houllier we tended to set-up very deep and rely on Owen's pace on the counter-attack.

As for transfer problems. Dossena, Keane and Riera (Deggan was free I think and doesn't count imo) could never be as bad Diouf, Diao & Cheyrou. The worst bit of transfer activity ever.

Rafa is so important to us.  If we were going backwards then I could understand the doubt but we are pushing forward. Jesus Christ, Rome wasn't built in a day you know.

And I have never seen a manager subjected to so much media bullshit as Rafa.  Well maybe Sven, but you expect that as England manager.  We have too many sheep who follow the media viewpoint as if it was extracted from the fountain of fucking knowledge.  Open your eyes you fools.  The Rafalution is still very much on course and it will be fucking televised   Walk on.

[SmallwoodRed]

About 18 months before Houllier went I had the moment where i realised that as good a job as he did he was never going to be the manager to take us to the holy grail of number 19. I've waited a few hours before posting this as at the time i posted about Houllier all I got was abuse and am just expecting the same now. This isnt just a rash thought I've had after last nights disappointment but that hasnt helped, its something that I've been thinking for a while and finally come to the conclusion that as good as Benitez has been, I cant see him ending the wait for number 19.

Rafa has given me and the rest of us some of the greatest moments as Liverpool fans but his constant baffling tactical decisions have finally seen me think this.

Last night Evertons main threat was coming from Anichebe who was starting on the right when we had the ball and cutting in to support cahill when Everton had it, he was causing problems but nothing that was dangerous most of the night until Rafa took Keane off which i support but instead of bringing mascherano on and pushing Gerrard further forward, he opted to bring on Yossi moving kuyt central and yossi on the right. As soon as he did this Moyes saw a potential weakness with yossi being a lot smaller than any of the other wingers we had on during the game and moved Anchiebe over to our right and there left, it came as no suprise that this is where Evertons goal come Yossi was no patch for the pace and raw strength of Anichebe and  in the end his foul brought Evertons goal.

Another one of Rafa's baffling decisions that he makes constantly is his seeming willingness to stick with Lucas who in 18months as far as I can remember has put in 1 good performance against a woeful newcastle. How Rafa can justify bringing him on before Mascherano last night is crazy it wasnt lucas' type of game it was to fast and furious for him he doesnt have a reputation of being a good tackler and that was proven last night when he came on his first impact was to give a free kick away and that continued through his performance.

another baffling decision by Rafa for me was his decision in the summer to bring in Robbie Keane, as good as a player as Keane has been if was never going to work out at Liverpool for him.  Benitez throughtout his managerial career has prefered a 4231 formation which is never going to suit Keane as he cant play as a lone striker and even if he could isnt going to be prefered over Torres,  and secondly to play him in the 4231 formation is then going to mean Gerrard dropping into the defensive mid roll which is then negating one of our main attacking threats.

Overall Rafa has given me some great times as a liverpool fan but i just cant see him bringing number 19 home unfortunately

I agree with your analysis about last nights game and (in part) the Stoke game (we did also just play shit there).

That said I'm astonished you can justify your view that we will never win the league under Rafa, based on a couple of tactical errors he has made. This is simplistic shit - i'm sorry.

-We are joint top of the league and its mid january.
-We have lost only once this season - this equals anything our title winning teams did by around this stage.
- We have picked up 7-9 points against the other big 3.

If we're going to reduce it to your level, lets turn your theory on its head shall we?

Imagine we were bottom, had only won once all season but managed to beat Everton last night because we didnt bring on Lucas? Presumably you would be backing Rafa to bring home number 19 soon would you? No course not-utter fucking tosh.

This goes to all other people out there as well who have celebrated while we were top and now are regrettably coming to the conclusion that we wont win the league because we have dropped a few points against Stoke and Everton -answer this question:

IF RAFA IS SO SHIT WHY IS HE JOINT TOP IN JANUARY WITH THE MOST SUCCESSFUL MANAGER IS LEAGUE HISTORY?

p.s as and when we do win the league under Rafa dont be so hypocritical to start celebrating it.

You people make me ashamed - go and support chelsea or man fucking citee

[In the Name of Klopp]

This is the current standings:

Man Utd           21   47
Liverpool   22   47
Chelsea           22   45
Aston Villa   22   44
Arsenal           22   41
Everton           22   36
Wigan Athletic   22   31


.... and some people are asking for Rafa's head. Get a fucking grip!!!

[KOTP]

I agree with your analysis about last nights game and (in part) the Stoke game (we did also just play shit there).

That said I'm astonished you can justify your view that we will never win the league under Rafa, based on a couple of tactical errors he has made. This is simplistic shit - i'm sorry.

-We are joint top of the league and its mid january.
-We have lost only once this season - this equals anything our title winning teams did by around this stage.
- We have picked up 7-9 points against the other big 3.

If we're going to reduce it to your level, lets turn your theory on its head shall we?

Imagine we were bottom, had only won once all season but managed to beat Everton last night because we didnt bring on Lucas? Presumably you would be backing Rafa to bring home number 19 soon would you? No course not-utter fucking tosh.

This goes to all other people out there as well who have celebrated while we were top and now are regrettably coming to the conclusion that we wont win the league because we have dropped a few points against Stoke and Everton -answer this question:

IF RAFA IS SO SHIT WHY IS HE JOINT TOP IN JANUARY WITH THE MOST SUCCESSFUL MANAGER IS LEAGUE HISTORY?

p.s as and when we do win the league under Rafa dont be so hypocritical to start celebrating it.

You people make me ashamed - go and support chelsea or man fucking citee

right so basically i should get shut of my season ticket just because i dont agree with the manager? no chance as the club is more important than 1 person. as for celebrating if we do win the league it aint being hypocritical as its what i want i aint sayin i dont want us to win the league

[Slick_Beef]

I haven't had a chance to read through all this thread yet, but I'd just like to say that we only need 13 more points from our last 16 games to equal the number of points we had in Houlliers last season.. and I'm pretty confident we'll get a lot more than that. Rafa has taken us a long, long, long way. We're now one of the best and most feared teams in Europe. I think it would be madness to sack him and totally disagree with the comparison.

[rafabenihill]

right so basically i should get shut of my season ticket just because i dont agree with the manager? no chance as the club is more important than 1 person. as for celebrating if we do win the league it aint being hypocritical as its what i want i aint sayin i dont want us to win the league

everyone's a great fan when winning..
through difficult times, then we get to see who the real supporters are..
we arent even near that..

[KOTP]

I haven't had a chance to read through all this thread yet, but I'd just like to say that we only need 13 more points from our last 16 games to equal the number of points we had in Houlliers last season.. and I'm pretty confident we'll get a lot more than that. Rafa has taken us a long, long, long way. We're now one of the best and most feared teams in Europe. I think it would be madness to sack him and totally disagree with the comparison.

it aint a comparison between houllier and rafa mate as i have tried to state its just i had the same feeling then as i am having now i aint trying to or wouldnt want to compare rafas record to houllier as that is obvious that rafa wins hands down

[Jfoz18]

right i havent read through the whole thread yet but here are my feelings;
no we arent playing well at the moment, but maybe with abit of form behind us this could lead to picking up more points
the board room trouble isnt helping anything
rafas in and out of hospital isnt helping anything
but we are challenging for the league, have some belief that we can take it that step further its a hell of alot to ask to jump from 4th to 1st in one season, we should all be taking things positively thinking that we can go on a good run and win the league. Whats needed things kept out the fuckin media, up the performances and the results should come as they where before christmas and fans need to show some belief that they think there team can do it, some people in pre season asking us to challenge for the league, here we are half way through a challenge and people are already shitting out of it, grow a pair and back the team.

[KOTP]

everyone's a great fan when winning..
through difficult times, then we get to see who the real supporters are..
we arent even near that..

no we aint near the difficult time and if they ever come i will still be there doesnt mean you aint a real supporter if you have doubts about the manager or the team

[SmallwoodRed]

right so basically i should get shut of my season ticket just because i dont agree with the manager? no chance as the club is more important than 1 person. as for celebrating if we do win the league it aint being hypocritical as its what i want i aint sayin i dont want us to win the league

dont give up your season ticket no - just back the manager instead of slagging him off when the going gets tough.

I notice you didnt post this when we beat newcastle or chelsea or united eh?

You also didnt answer the question about how we are joint top if Rafa isnt cutting it?

[AlanK]

it aint a comparison between houllier and rafa mate as i have tried to state its just i had the same feeling then as i am having now i aint trying to or wouldnt want to compare rafas record to houllier as that is obvious that rafa wins hands down

Yeah but when you take the padding away it boils down to the fact that you want Rafa sacked. Seeing as the last manger who was sacked is Houllier the comparison is inevitable.

OUt of interest, who do you think could do a better job?

[Slick_Beef]

it aint a comparison between houllier and rafa mate as i have tried to state its just i had the same feeling then as i am having now i aint trying to or wouldnt want to compare rafas record to houllier as that is obvious that rafa wins hands down

I know what you mean, but the thing about Ged was, we were actually going backwards in terms of results. With Rafa we seem to go from strength to strength.. we're not even battling it out for third now.. we're serious contenders. I wont write more because I'm probably repeating arguments that I havent read yet but I am still totally behind what Rafa is doing.

[Mr.Red]

Houllier was a good manager and did his job well,even great I'd dare to say.He won us 'the little treble',he brought us back in the Champions League group phase after a long wait,he made a title challenger of us in 2001-2002.However he should have left the club in 2003 not in 2004 but I'm personally happy how the things went on afterwards.
Now the situation seems to be the same with Rafa unfortunately but let's hope he'll stay here for a long time and win the title rather later than never.

[redpride9]

Rules of running a football club:


Number 1.

Good managers are not that easy to come by (cf Newcastle, Tottenham).

When you've got one, stick with him until you are convinced he's not one, and be patient, even when the less cerebrally endowed of your fans are baying for his sacking (cf Manchester United, Everton).


Number 2

Sometimes you need to get rid of a manager whom you once thought was a good one, but are now having some doubts about. Here are some guidelines.

Be patient, always. There is too much random chance in football to react to every result, or even every season. It is better to give a manager one season too many than to repeatedly give managers one season too few. Stability will serve you well in the long run.

You will know when to part company with a manager because you will see that there is no foundation for the future and that things are going in the wrong direction for a prolonged period of time - this period should be an absolute minimum of one season unless utter disaster beckons.



Any discussion of sacking Rafa is utterly ludicrous given that we are one of the best half dozen sides in European competition, we are second on goal difference in our domestic league in mid January and the first shoots of his youth development programme have started poking through at first team level (ie Insua). We have a good half dozen top/world class players whose futures would be under question immediately if Rafa left, especially as his likely destination would be Madrid.

Noone can guarantee number 19 this season, next season or ever, whether Rafa stays or goes. We are competing against very good, very expensively assembled sides. I honestly think, though, that anyone who genuinely thinks sacking Rafa would be a sensible way to progress Liverpool Football Club is a moron in the true sense of the word.

Makes perfect sense to me ^^

[desikasanova]

Geez.

At the start of the season, Rafa and some of the players e.g. JC promised that Liverpool won't be out of the title race come January. They also said we would try and mount a serious title challenge.

Have they kept their word? Yes.

[LFC when it suits]

I just hope that come May, we are playing on the grandest stage in football.

The European Cup Final in Rome

[youll never walk alone it]

anyways kotk, i thought you supported glasgow rangers?  sure you once said it was rangers 1st lfc 2nd could be wrong lol

[rafabenihill]

no we aint near the difficult time and if they ever come i will still be there doesnt mean you aint a real supporter if you have doubts about the manager or the team

season ticket holders like u who have plenty of doubts when we are top of the table and not playing fantasy football..

sure ur supporting the right team?

[ShanksLegend]

PS - Why do you advertise Koptalk insider?

Koptalk insider, was a fella who set up his own site to expose fat dunk and exploits it was very good a few years ago but just clicked on it and its a bit queer these days.

This fella was like Roger Cook catching out, it was class.

[Jfoz18]

I just hope that come May, we are playing on the grandest stage in football.

The European Cup Final in Rome

that and a challenge for the league lad

[Zaffarious]

can all talk about sacking rafa please stop for the love of god.

This is the first season we have put in a title challange. How Benitez has managed that aswell as winning the champions league and getting to the final with that god awful squad he inherited i do not know.

The man has revolotionised liverpool, dont forget from where Benitez has brought us and to where we are today.

Look, if we all go back to pre-season, every1 said what would they be happy with this season. I remember CLEARLY 90% of the posts where "a sustained title challange / to be within 5 points of the leaders coe End of March / Early April".

Well so far so good, its approaching the end of january and we are AT WORST 3 points of top in 2nd place.

I was gutted last night but not so gutted as to even think about (lol) sacking rafa. you must be having a laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrffffffffffffffffffff.

[martinjmmac5]

-We are joint top of the league and its mid january. - due to our good start to the season and the other 3 being completely out of form.

-We have lost only once this season - this equals anything our title winning teams did by around this stage. but have drawn fuckin loads.

- We have picked up 7-9 points against the other big 3. again coz they have been poor and we have may aswell have not got any points from these games as we have lost 12 points by drawing with stoke twice, west ham, e'ton, fulham and hull city.

fair enough rafa has taken us a lot further than others in the past 4/5 years but he's had a lot of money to play about with and his stubborness and tactics are not helping us one bit, we are in a rutt and i can't see a way out of this.

[LFCfan4Life]

-We are joint top of the league and its mid january. - due to our good start to the season and the other 3 being completely out of form.

-We have lost only once this season - this equals anything our title winning teams did by around this stage. but have drawn fuckin loads.

- We have picked up 7-9 points against the other big 3. again coz they have been poor and we have may aswell have not got any points from these games as we have lost 12 points by drawing with stoke twice, west ham, e'ton, fulham and hull city.

fair enough rafa has taken us a lot further than others in the past 4/5 years but he's had a lot of money to play about with and his stubborness and tactics are not helping us one bit, we are in a rutt and i can't see a way out of this.

they have been poor to lose to us? or we were better than them

i would say what i have been saying for ages all the big 4 may have been poor but for me the remaining 16 have also been a lot better than ever before

[manicss01]

Anybody agreeing with this sentiment has to be the least intelligent dickhead in a sea of dickheads.

In Houlliers last season we finished 5th.

This season, Rafas team is second, joint on points with the leaders Utd.

In Houlliers last season he bought unknown, untried, unproven players in Diouf, Cheyrou, Diao.

This season, Rafa has bought tried, tested, proven players in Keane and Dossena. So far, these have ended up as flops - but to compare these acquisitions to those of houllier is ridiculously insulting. Keane was hailed by everybody in the game as a great addition.

*might I add, i always knew it wouldnt be successful. On the day i heard of it, i turned to my brother and spoke the words 'why the fuck has he bought him for?!'. My brother was joyus. I am not rafas fanboy - but, despite the fact that i thought it wasnt what we needed, i would NEVER ever think of comparing El Hadji to Robbie.

As i said on a nother forum recently...

i am disgusted at liverpool fans right now.

Some of you are a bunch of pussys. cowardly c*nts.

We should be at our strongest now.

You fucking cowards. Calling for rafas head, wallowing in self pity, turning on players in an instant.

Shankly would turn in his grave right now hearing this shite.

Thank god our players have more heart that some of you.

Waa Waa...Rafas lost it...the titles gone...Waa Waa...Houllier moment, sack him!...Waa Waa...Fuck off!

(p.s. im not talking about everybody, but those who i am referring to know so)

[Zaffarious]

 you can not go and say "we are only on top coz every1 else has been shit".

Otherwise you can say "man u only won the league last year as we / cheslea/ aresneal were shit."

It is what it is, the league table doesnt lie we are doing ok. I am telling you if at the beginning of the season you offered us even on points going to OT around mid-april EVERY one of us would have bitten their hands off.

Every team goes through a shit patch, man u did at the start, no we are, at least we aint loosing. Lets just see where we are End of march.

[KOTP]

anyways kotk, i thought you supported glasgow rangers?  sure you once said it was rangers 1st lfc 2nd could be wrong lol

you are very wrong as its the other way round

[Fanxxxxtastic]

Well I'm backing Rafa 100%.  Most of the fans also showed that they were right behind Rafa last season too.

What has suddenly turned a section of our support against him?  We are in the last 16 of the Champions League, with the dream tie we all wanted of Real Madrid in the next round.

We are still in the FA cup, which gives us a chance to avenge the draw from last night.   We're level with ManU at the top of the table.  Yes, I know they have a game in hand, but we still have 16 games left to play.

So far this is panning out to possibly be a great season.  Of course, there's been dark moments but all seasons have them.

I know Fat Scouser did a joke thread called "Sack Rafa" last night.   In my opinion these are the kind of threads that start the rot.  Suddenly, Rafa is seen as fair game and it all starts from there.  The press read the messageboards, and you can guarantee that they'll start to report that we are turning against him, and before we know it it's fact.  This will be regardless of whether the majority posting on those threads are knobheads, WUM's and fans of other teams pretending to be Liverpool fans.

If there are some pissed off fans right now, just wait until Sunday night if we slip up then.  It was always seen as the lesser game and with Wigan and Chelsea coming up in one week.  I expect Rafa to make changes, and drawing yesterday will not change his mind.  Unlike a lot of fans on here, Rafa has to look at the bigger picture.

I think there should be some surgery available on the NHS, so that some Liverpool fans can have the muscles severed from their kneecaps.

In Rafa I still trust!

[Jfoz18]

Well I'm backing Rafa 100%.  Most of the fans also showed that they were right behind Rafa last season too.

What has suddenly turned a section of our support against him?  We are in the last 16 of the Champions League, with the dream tie we all wanted of Real Madrid in the next round.

We are still in the FA cup, which gives us a chance to avenge the draw from last night.   We're level with ManU at the top of the table.  Yes, I know they have a game in hand, but we still have 16 games left to play.

So far this is panning out to possibly be a great season.  Of course, there's been dark moments but all seasons have them.

I know Fat Scouser did a joke thread called "Sack Rafa" last night.   In my opinion these are the kind of threads that start the rot.  Suddenly, Rafa is seen as fair game and it all starts from there.  The press read the messageboards, and you can guarantee that they'll start to report that we are turning against him, and before we know it it's fact.  This will be regardless of whether the majority posting on those threads are knobheads, WUM's and fans of other teams pretending to be Liverpool fans.

If there are some pissed off fans right now, just wait until Sunday night if we slip up then.  It was always seen as the lesser game and with Wigan and Chelsea coming up in one week.  I expect Rafa to make changes, and drawing yesterday will not change his mind.  Unlike a lot of fans on here, Rafa has to look at the bigger picture.

I think there should be some surgery available on the NHS, so that some Liverpool fans can have the muscles severed from their kneecaps.

In Rafa I still trust!

agree with all of that, you make sense things are no way near bad enough to even think about sacking rafa results arent going are way and where not performing well hopefully pick up some form in the next few games