Topic: UK General Election - CLACTON

[Zlen]

Not from the UK, don't follow UK politics, just saw a Labour party clip on Twitter and the Starmer guy has the most unconvincing voice I've heard in a long time. Don't know if he's a decent politician, but he has a voice like a church mouse trying to sound tough.

[Riquende]

I do dream of this but the problem is my area is so Tory they don’t even bother knocking on the door here, none of the big parties do, it’s usually just the independent candidates in the local elections who bother trying to win your vote.

I've only ever had one door knock, it was just after I'd moved in to a Tory ward in generally Labour-leaning Luton, and it was the incumbent councillor ahead of local elections, asking if I was a Conservative supporter. He didn't really hang around after I said no for me to elaborate. This was early 2015 though, so couldn't yet give him an earful about Brexit, Boris, Truss, any of it.

Where I live now is an SNP/Labour contest, no idea if it's in play.

[Yorkykopite]

Do people really think that bore in the Labour party will be any different.

Man is a clown

A boring clown! Interesting concept.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Not from the UK, don't follow UK politics, just saw a Labour party clip on Twitter and the Starmer guy has the most unconvincing voice I've heard in a long time. Don't know if he's a decent politician, but he has a voice like a church mouse trying to sound tough.

Have you heard Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, Sunak, Rees-Mogg and the rest?

Not many politicians around these days that sound epic to be fair.

[Red Beret]

McVey is in an ultra safe Tory seat [Tatton] i'll be amazed & laughing my head off, if the Tories lose that seat, the only time they've ever lost the seat was at the 97 election, when Labour & Lib Dems came together & pulled out their candidates, for an independent candidate [Martin Bell] against the Tory incumbent at the time who was hit by sleaze & scandal.

Hard to imagine that Neil Hamilton was the poster boy of Tory sleaze back in the 90s. Looks like a choir boy compared to the modern Tory.

Recall petitions only came into force back in 2015. Makes you wonder if he would have faced one back then if they had been around.

[Kenny's Jacket]

I do dream of this but the problem is my area is so Tory they don’t even bother knocking on the door here, none of the big parties do, it’s usually just the independent candidates in the local elections who bother trying to win your vote.

Im like you, literally never been knocked on.

[oldfordie]

Of course I do

Mate this is by most standards an echo chamber, me not liking the top of the PLP wont be influencing anything.

What is a Echo Chamber. an environment in which a person encounters only beliefs or opinions that coincide with their own, so that their existing views are reinforced and alternative ideas are not considered.
"people are living in partisan and ideological echo chambers"
I don't think that applies on here. we often agree on points which can re-inforce views but posters can justify that opinion if pressed. this is why they hold these views in the first place, they add up,  the people who attack Labour on here are pressed to give their reasoning for opinions they are seldom pressed on outside this forum. they struggle most of the time, that's the big difference and I think it's one of the main reasons why millions will struggle in poverty for many years to come, people talking shite without being seriously challenged to justify their opinion, anyone who says nothing will improve even if Labour win end up looking a bit clueless when pressed. they storm off thinking it's a echo chamber in here, nahh, if they make a sound argument to justify their opinion then they have a good chance of changing the majority of opinions on here.

[Lusty]

Not from the UK, don't follow UK politics, just saw a Labour party clip on Twitter and the Starmer guy has the most unconvincing voice I've heard in a long time. Don't know if he's a decent politician, but he has a voice like a church mouse trying to sound tough.

What has his voice got to do with anything?  FFS it's inane shit like this that's got us into this mess.

[Red-Soldier]

Do people really think that bore in the Labour party will be any different.

Man is a clown

Starmer isn't great and some on the front bench are very questionable, however, they will still be better than the Tories!

There's no comparison, in that sense.

I think the whole country will have a more positive feel, even after one day.

[A-Bomb]

Leave request for the 5th July just gone in, let’s fucking do this!

Haha i've just done the same thing - i'll be seeing this one all the way through, collapsing Tory government!

[Yorkykopite]

Im like you, literally never been knocked on.

The most satisfying way to deal with a Tory canvasser - which I've only once been able to manage - is to pretend you are more right wing, more bigoted, more nationalistic than they are. You can soon bring them round to agreeing with the most extreme statements. "I'd castrate all criminals, re-open the Workhouses, and transport climate activists to the Antarctic" is almost guaranteed to bring out "Yes, we would too, but Conservatives just have to be a little careful of saying these things out loud. Political correctness, you know."

[Red-Soldier]

Not from the UK, don't follow UK politics, just saw a Labour party clip on Twitter and the Starmer guy has the most unconvincing voice I've heard in a long time. Don't know if he's a decent politician, but he has a voice like a church mouse trying to sound tough.

Yeah.  His voice is very unfortunate, for a public speaker.  It's graining and does sound a bit wimpy.

[Red Beret]

I think the problem for the Tories is every seat will have some kind of voting demographic that they’ve pissed off. Means a lot of seats that were previously off limits can become battlegrounds without Labour even really needing to offer much to win them over. Let’s be honest, Labour aren’t proposing revolutionary solutions to most problems, we just want people who won’t be evil and fuck things up.

This. It's got to the point where the Tories have basically accused Doctors, Nurses, Teachers, Rail Workers, Postal Workers etc of all "holding the country to ransom".

That might work when it's just one group, like miners, but you can't tell Teachers that Rail Workers are holding the country hostage, then Doctors that Teachers are holding the country hostage, then Postal Workers that Nurses are holding the country hostage...

At this point they're trying to make out to one half of the British workforce that the other half the British workforce is part of some deep state conspiracy. It's just silly at this point. If it wasn't wrecking livelihoods then it would be funny.

[Libertine]

This. It's got to the point where the Tories have basically accused Doctors, Nurses, Teachers, Rail Workers, Postal Workers etc of all "holding the country to ransom".

That might work when it's just one group, like miners, but you can't tell Teachers that Rail Workers are holding the country hostage, then Doctors that Teachers are holding the country hostage, then Postal Workers that Nurses are holding the country hostage...

At this point they're trying to make out to one half of the British workforce that the other half the British workforce is part of some deep state conspiracy. It's just silly at this point. If it wasn't wrecking livelihoods then it would be funny.

Not to mention completely alienating the young (and using "young" here in the broadest possible sense) with property prices, dragging UK out of the EU in the most extreme way possible, watering down climate committments etc.

Everything they have done is to appeal to an increasingly small cohort of old and very right wing people.

This used to be the natural party of government and one of the most ruthlessly successful political parties in the world. It's an extraordinary fall.

[Red Beret]

The Tory’s have been diluting their gene pool for some time, full of absolutely morons these days like seagullis.

Time to get them all out forever.

Yup. It's a clear sign of how Bozo and others have eroded the core of the Tories that idiots like this are actually MPs. They have no clue how the system they are a part of works. More worryingly, they have no inclination to learn, either.

[Zlen]

What has his voice got to do with anything?  FFS it's inane shit like this that's got us into this mess.

Look, chill.  I'd never not vote or not support someone with good policy based on look, voice etc.
But he really does sound directly opposite to a confident leader - which is unfortunate as lot of people ARE that shallow in estimating someone.
His team probably knows this and are limiting his exposure to measured conversational talks, and less 'motivational and rouding' attempts.

[Red Beret]

His father in law says "hi"

Wonder if his father in law told him to call the election. "Okay, lad - I'm sorry. You proved you're useless. Best get yourself off to the US. More money there anyway."

[oldfordie]

Do people really think that bore in the Labour party will be any different.

Man is a clown

The problem is you obviously don't follow politics so you won't even notice the big changes when they happen.
I mean come one. after all the debates on Johnson and clowns and your calling Starmer a Clown, after all the debates on what we should look for when choosing a leader and how other qualities are far more important. interesting point though, will someone say they aren't voting Labour because they find Starmer boring during the debates? lol. imagine many will be Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson fans.

[Father Ted]

Why is he (In the context of the UK)

1. A twat
2. An untrustworthy shyster
3. A man who effortlessly limbo dances beneath low bars on a regular basis


It might be useful for those that throw out such accusations that they can qualify it. You said it yourself there, so in the context of the UK - which this election is about, should be easy for you to clearly qualify these things so that everyone agrees, if they are factual and correct.

Mind you, I've been asking this question for a while now and just usually get shouty, angry answers back.

Can you qualify these things fairly and reasonably so that I can understand where you're coming from?

I don’t like the man, find him charmless and phony, don’t trust him (because of his demonstrable track record of breaking promises) and don’t feel remotely enthused by his project. It’s a personal judgement, not some universal truth.

If you think the way Starmer presented himself when vying for the leadership and the way he’s acted since are congruent, then fine. The way he’s rowed back on anything leftwing whilst heading rightwards is excellent, then lovely, promising signs on that front. All the pledges and promises he’s binned off, from nationalisation and student fees, scrapping private schools charitable status, a £28bn green new deal, new deal for working people, etc - all ditched or hacked away at, are good and a sign the man is a trustworthy type then again, fine. If you like a Labour Party draped in more flags than the BNP promising cast iron fiscal discipline and using their made up rules to weasel out of spending then great. Good for you. The future is bright.

[Red Beret]

Sunak on Radio 4 trying to gaslight the public. He even fell back on the memo Liam Byrne left in 2010. Starmer and Labour need to be across the airwaves crushing them. Sunak has failed to meet 4 of his pitiful 5 pledges and reducing inflation by putting the country into a recession is a bit like changing the carpets by burning the house down.

Interesting that the Tory attack line is not that Labour’s policies are wrong or cost too much but that Starmer has changed his mind on policies. Such an easy line to counter - the Tories have bankrupted the country so there simply isn’t the money to do all the things we’d like such as the £28bn green fund. And is intractability better than changing your mind?

Of course most people won’t follow any of this but as a lover of elections I find the strategy fascinating.

I'm still catching up with the thread, but it's interesting to note that it's taken Sunak 19 months just to get the economy roughly back to where it was before Truss and Kwarteng trashed it. 19 months to even barely start undoing the damage those two clowns caused in the space of 48 hours.

Truss was a dogmatic lunatic; Sunak is an idealogical robot. We need politicians who can adapt and react to rapidly changing situations. They just do the same things over and over again, hoping something will work this time. It's no way to run a government.

[PaulF]

What has his voice got to do with anything?  FFS it's inane shit like this that's got us into this mess.

In a world of soundbites and with so little rational thought and reasoning, these things are important.
Luckily Sunak is no great orator.  The deform deputy was just on the radio he spoke far better than either of them if you tuned out from the content.

[koptommy93]

We do know that any promises or pledges made by Starmer are completely worthless given his track record.

[Kenny's Jacket]

The most satisfying way to deal with a Tory canvasser - which I've only once been able to manage - is to pretend you are more right wing, more bigoted, more nationalistic than they are. You can soon bring them round to agreeing with the most extreme statements. "I'd castrate all criminals, re-open the Workhouses, and transport climate activists to the Antarctic" is almost guaranteed to bring out "Yes, we would too, but Conservatives just have to be a little careful of saying these things out loud. Political correctness, you know."

    Like Joe Lycett

If I get picked ill definitely try that.

My village is very white, we have a black family that own the pharmacy who are  friends of ours. I might complain about them eroding my culture.  Im sure they would be happier in Rwanda.

[FlashingBlade]

Just heard Starmer on the Radio...as inspirational as a pre used tea bag...

But then again I'm used to listening to Jurgen Klopp.

[9 kemlyn road]

Then vote Tory.

If you think Starmer will lie to the king to illegally prorogue parliament, break lockdown laws, protect MPs who sexually assault staffers, give billions away in contracts to mates for PPE, discharge sick COVID patients into care homes, allowed the bodies to pile high, bring in immigration laws that break international law, not bring in rules for a duty of candor for public figures, break ofcom rules and host TV shows on GB news, bring in austerity measures that have set the country back for a generation, force through a process that has allowed the UK to be the only country in human history to impose economic sanctions on itself, destroy the care system, NHS, defence, policing, energy security, transport, utilities who pump literal shit into rivers with impunity, call striking judges, solicitors, teachers, doctors, nurses, train drivers enemies of the people, force more people into using food banks in order to survive than ever before, allowed a society to choose between eating and heating, created a housing system with not enough housing, allowed new built flats to have flammable cladding

Hostile environment

Grenfell, Windrush, Horizon IT, Infected blood, Ukraine war, Not calling for immediate ceasefire in Isreal and not recognising the state of Palestine

I can keep going

Then please vote for a party that wont

Absolutely spot on .
All the above needs hammering home ,all of it ,over the next few weeks.
I always say the public have the memory of a goldfish so when they saying the old ,they’re all the same routine,all the reasons you’ve said need this banging into their heads .
Seeing everything they were responsible for written down like that is shocking.shocking that a British government in the 21st century is responsible and behind that catalogue of ,well,in a lot of cases ,crimes, beggars belief and to think there people out there who can forget it all is astonishing.
Labour need to hammer it home ,show the world what they’ve done to the country the last 14 years .

[AndyMuller]

Has to be the end of these tory c*nts.

[Wabaloolah]

We do know that any promises or pledges made by Starmer are completely worthless given his track record.

given the fact he doesn't have a track record in government I'm assuming you are buying into the Tory character assassination of him flip flopping and u-turn propaganda

[Wabaloolah]

Just heard Starmer on the Radio...as inspirational as a pre used tea bag...

But then again I'm used to listening to Jurgen Klopp.

who would you like to be leader of the Labour Party then?

[Schmarn]

Do people really think that bore in the Labour party will be any different.

Man is a clown

People said the same about Miliband in 2015. Then Brexit happened.

Starmer is many things but he’s not a clown. He was Director of Public Prosecutions which is a critically important and skilled job. You don’t have to like him or vote for him but try thinking before making daft statements.

[koptommy93]

given the fact he doesn't have a track record in government I'm assuming you are buying into the Tory character assassination of him flip flopping and u-turn propaganda

I'm looking at his pledges when he became leader, all of which have been dropped.

[Jiminy Cricket]

I want an election, we desperately need one.  But I also want to see this happen, because it might actually see the, end up with under 100 MPs

I mean, I’ve woken up this morning, and yesterday really happened. He really fucked up that badly.

I think it’s the worst thing I’ve seen since Rudolph Guliani accidentally hired a garden centre rather than a hotel.

A politician of any ability would have joked to the press: well, I promised you an announcement from the Four Seasons and here we are. Glad you could make it. Then delivered whatever bollocks he was spouting that particular day.

[oldfordie]

We do know that any promises or pledges made by Starmer are completely worthless given his track record.

That's fine out of interest though did you say the same thing about the last leader when he broke at least 3 of his main leadership pledges.  biggest pledge within a few weeks of wining the leadership election,  Norway deal.
I always found it a bit annoying to hear Starmer taking a hammering over Nationalisation while the last leader did the same without any criticism.
How he thinks the Labour party members should decide policys      oh yeah sure. as long as he knows they want the policys he want's otherwise no vote on the policy. members were not given a vote on the direction of Brexit for 2 years during the most critical period of Brexit.
Things change. it's politics.

[Red Beret]

   Like Joe Lycett

If I get picked ill definitely try that.

My village is very white, we have a black family that own the pharmacy who are  friends of ours. I might complain about them eroding my culture.  Im sure they would be happier in Rwanda.

I believe it's the Borat Effect. Lull them into a false sense of security, get them to divulge how they really feel - and make sure you get it all recorded and posted up on social media before the day is out. Pretty soon, you'll have some pig headed Tory whippet admitting he's all for child marriage because in his opinion young girls should be taught womanly homemaker values at an early age.

As for Starmer, I have no problem with him personally. As a lawyer, he's proven effective at countering various Prime Ministers at the despatch box. A bit like Bozo, but in the opposite way, I think people underestimate him because of how he comes across. Turning a weakness into a strength is not a bad thing imo - it's how you choose to do it and how it impacts those around you that can be problematic if you have a Bozo attitude to the world.

Frankly right now, the only Prime Minister who would be worse than Sunak would be another Tory. (Or maybe Corbyn, if I want to throw a hand grenade into the discussion. )

[FlashingBlade]

who would you like to be leader of the Labour Party then?

Jurgen Klopp obviously!

[Draex]

I believe it's the Borat Effect. Lull them into a false sense of security, get them to divulge how they really feel - and make sure you get it all recorded and posted up on social media before the day is out. Pretty soon, you'll have some pig headed Tory whippet admitting he's all for child marriage because in his opinion young girls should be taught womanly homemaker values at an early age.

As for Starmer, I have no problem with him personally. As a lawyer, he's proven effective at countering various Prime Ministers at the despatch box. A bit like Bozo, but in the opposite way, I think people underestimate him because of how he comes across. Turning a weakness into a strength is not a bad thing imo - it's how you choose to do it and how it impacts those around you that can be problematic if you have a Bozo attitude to the world.

Frankly right now, the only Prime Minister who would be worse than Sunak would be another Tory. (Or maybe Corbyn, if I want to throw a hand grenade into the discussion. )

It will be nice to have a calm and cold prime minister.

[Lisan Al Gaib]

I'm looking at his pledges when he became leader, all of which have been dropped.

What were the pledges? Genuine question, not being obtuse

[CornerFlag]

That's fine out of interest though did you say the same thing about the last leader when he broke at least 3 of his main leadership pledges.  biggest pledge within a few weeks of wining the leadership election,  Norway deal.
I always found it a bit annoying to hear Starmer taking a hammering over Nationalisation while the last leader did the same without any criticism.
How he thinks the Labour party members should decide policys      oh yeah sure. as long as he knows they want the policys he want's otherwise no vote on the policy. members were not given a vote on the direction of Brexit for 2 years during the most critical period of Brexit.
Things change. it's politics.

On that though, OF, you've said "Things change, it's politics" but you've blasted one side of the argument for it and defended another. Surely you can see the argument that this could be seen as hypocritical?

I'm looking at the pledges that Starmer's made before being made Labour leader and the position he's currently in and it does feel like two different prime ministerial candidates. I personally think it's absolutely fair to have misgivings about the direction he's taken himself and the likely direction of the party in a leadership role.  I guess where I may differ to some is that I'm (slightly begrudgingly) accepting the compromises that have been made so that the country switches from Tory to Labour leadership, but I think it's fine to point out the changes made if we're castigating one side for similar.

[CornerFlag]

What were the pledges? Genuine question, not being obtuse

https://www.clpd.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Keir-Starmers-10-Pledges.pdf

[rob1966]

As someone living in Germany, it feels like UK has been having elections every year for a long long time.

Not elections, just that the Tories had 3 different leaders in about 8 weeks.

Sunak lost the Tory vote to a woman who lasted less time in office than it took a lettuce to go off, that's the c*nt we ended up with

[Jiminy Cricket]

I thought a Machete was a bit too extreme.

Always the voice of restraint.