Author Topic: Man City - cheating bastards rumbled  (Read 2815482 times)

Offline Jshooters

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I just assume that once logged on they could access any area of Citys system. We have a few different systems at work, including 3rd party systems, I just have a single log on and then access what I need.

My understanding is that they had logins for a particular system called Scout 7 which is very specific.  There was never an implication that they had access to any other information
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Offline Statto Red

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I’d love to know which players we got as a result of it, especially one that they would have been interested in
Jordan Ibe is one of the players we brought as a result isnt it. :o :lmao
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Jordan Ibe is one of the players we brought as a result isnt it. :o :lmao

tbf we sold him for £15m, so we robbed both City AND Bournemouth ;D
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Offline SP

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Because it is hacking. That’s the right term for it. Gaining unauthorised access in this way is a contravention of S1 Computer Misuse Act 1990. Doesn’t matter if you once were authorised. As a crime it holds up to two years in prison and a £5000 fine. That’s why we settled. Let’s not be as tribal as City fans on this, we got cheeky and got caught.

We didn’t. I doubt the club knew anything about it. The actions of a rogue employee are the responsibility of the individual.

Offline SpionBob

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Apparently the "hacking" led us to getting Jordan Ibe.

City must have been devastated, hence the 1 mil settlement.
Their FFP violations led to them getting Raheem Sterling, Sergio Aguero, David Silva, Yaya Toure, Kolo Toure, Gabriel Jesis, Sane, LaPorte, stones, Walker, Mendy, Ederson, De Bruyne, Bernardo Silva, Kompany, Fernandinho and Mahrez. Also Sagna, Nasri, Rodwell, That fat swansea striker, and too many others to remember lol.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2020, 07:48:11 pm by SpionBob »
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Offline Hazell

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Their FFP violations led to them getting Raheem Sterling, Sergio Aguero, David Silva, Yaya Toure, Kolo Toure, Gabriel Jesis, Sane, LaPorte, stones, Walker, Mendy, Ederson, De Bruyne, Bernardo Silva, Kompany, Fernandinho and Mahrez. Also Sagna, Nasri, Rodwell, That fat swansea striker, and too many others to remember lol.

Rodwell? If their lawyers are worth their salt, they should put that forward as evidence that they've been already punished many times over.
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Offline SpionBob

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Rodwell? If their lawyers are worth their salt, they should put that forward as evidence that they've been already punished many times over.
You may laugh but he was highly rated for a time and symptomatic of their 'we can buy anyone we want' approach towards building a team which ultimately became 'we can hire any manager we want because we are so fucking rich' approach.
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Offline 4pool

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They needed Rodwell for their English quota.
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Offline Hazell

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You may laugh but he was highly rated for a time and symptomatic of their 'we can buy anyone we want' approach towards building a team which ultimately became 'we can hire any manager we want because we are so fucking rich' approach.

No doubt, all those players are exactly that.

The likes of Rodwell is exactly that, regardless of how good or bad he is, Man City could just buy him and if he didn't work, discard him, buy someone else and not worry about the consequences, like most other clubs have to. Same for Jo, Robinho, Adebayor etc. If it did work, like it has done with numerous players (Aguero, De Bryune, Sterling etc), then that's what they'll point to about how great their scouting and signings are and that's what people will remember.

This lot have been playing fantasy football, there's not real secret to them winning other than keep buying and buying until you get it right.
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Offline Red Beret

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You may laugh but he was highly rated for a time and symptomatic of their 'we can buy anyone we want' approach towards building a team which ultimately became 'we can hire any manager we want because we are so fucking rich' approach.

Yeah.  As that link someone posted a few pages back showed, they bought loads of duds for silly money in their race to build a competitive team. 

I never really understood it.  At the time I thought they could have assembled a very good team without spending nearly as much, and it wasn't like they couldn't afford a good manager and scouting network.  But they opted for the scattergun approach and eventually lucked out.
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Offline Peabee

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We didn’t. I doubt the club knew anything about it. The actions of a rogue employee are the responsibility of the individual.

If it happened now, City would also be in trouble for contravening GDPR through not expiring their logins.
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Offline Mighty_Red

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If it happened now, City would also be in trouble for contravening GDPR through not expiring their logins.

Even back in 2012 there were some rules in place when it came to data breaches and the sharing of logins. Not sure if anything was enforced in those days whereas most companies have tightened up on that now.

Whilst we would be responsible for the employees actions, I'm pretty sure that having showed that we disciplined those involved and reached a settlement with City at the time there would be fuck all left to go after us for! Even if criminal charges were brought, the employees would face jail/fine and we would plead guilty and probably also only get a fine as well. Small beer really.

Deflection tactics only work if you're exposing a far, far bigger crime!

I wonder if the Spanish press (I.e. Marca) will go after City for the next couple of days just to ramp up the pressure?
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Offline SpionBob

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Manchester City
Manchester City's fury at FFP case 'leaks' laid bare in court documents
Club hit out at Uefa in appeal to Cas
‘Uefa has systematically breached its duty of confidence’
David Conn

Wed 12 Feb 2020 20.43 GMTLast modified on Thu 13 Feb 2020 00.14 GMT
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Manchester City had appealed against the decision of Uefa’s investigatory chamber to charge them with breaches of financial fair play.
 Manchester City had appealed against the decision of Uefa’s investigatory chamber to charge them with breaches of financial fair play. Photograph: Simon Whitehead/News Images/Shutterstock
Manchester City’s fierce hostility to Uefa’s investigation into the club’s alleged breaches of financial fair play regulations has been laid bare in court documents, which show City sought financial damages from Uefa for alleged leaks of the process to the media.

The furious case mounted by City is detailed in written reasons issued by the court of arbitration for sport for its decision in November to dismiss City’s case. The club had appealed against the decision by the “investigatory chamber” (IC) of Uefa’s club financial control body to charge City with breaches of FFP, and refer the case to the control body’s “adjudicatory chamber” (AC). The IC’s investigation followed publication of internal City emails by the German magazine Der Spiegel which suggested the club had deceived Uefa in their financial submissions, principally because City’s owner, Sheikh Mansour of Abu Dhabi, was funding the club’s sponsorship by the state’s airline, Etihad.

City deny any wrongdoing and appealed to Cas against the referral by the IC itself, arguing that it was made “improperly and prematurely”, that it “lacked procedural fairness and due process”, and did not treat City equally with other European clubs. City also protested about the leaking in advance of the IC’s intended decision to charge the club, and subsequent media reports, alleging: “Uefa has systematically breached, and continues to breach, its duty of confidence.”

The ferocity of City’s accusations against Uefa drew an emphatic response from Yves Leterme, the IC chair, who wrote on 20 May: “I must vehemently reject your allegations of unlawful activities, either by myself or by any of the members of the Uefa CFCB, in particular of its investigatory chamber. Y our allegations are groundless in the merits and unacceptable in tone. Please be advised that I will not continue such an exchange of correspondence and that I will not respond further to groundless accusations directed against me personally and/or against my fellow members of the IC.”

Cas refused City’s appeal against the referral, ruling that an appeal cannot be made until a final decision by a governing body, and City could make all their arguments at the hearing before the adjudicatory chamber.

However the Cas panel of three lawyers described the media leaks as “worrisome” and questioned how Leterme “could be so confident” that they had not come from the CFCB. They ruled that even if a CFCB member had been responsible for a leak, that did not mean they had not been impartial when reaching the decision to charge City.

The AC was understood to have heard the charges last month, and a decision is awaited. If it finds City guilty of deceiving Uefa over its finances it has the power to ban them from the Champions League, as recommended by the IC.

I think they have to get their appeal to CAS in today?
« Last Edit: February 24, 2020, 02:57:12 am by SpionBob »
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Offline harleydanger

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Anyway, all i hear from City in regards to this is classic gaslighting and diversion. All irrelevant to the actual matter.
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Offline Redcap

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Is it possible for CAS to recommend an even harsher penalty to dissuade frivolous and libellous appeals such as this?

Seems unlikely, but it would be outstanding.

I have very little faith in the PL showing any teeth on the domestic front, so I think the best hope is for the most powerful statement possible to be made in the European theatre.

Offline Bullan

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I just assume that once logged on they could access any area of Citys system. We have a few different systems at work, including 3rd party systems, I just have a single log on and then access what I need.

The suggestion seems to be that this was a shared login credentials for a bunch of people which is frankly bizarre in this day and age, if that is true then they did not use someone else's login details, they used the same one as everyone else had which had not been changed despite employee turnover.

This seems to be a SaaS solution so not on the City network either (https://isf.scout7.com/Apps/Login?ReturnUrl=%2F) so there was no breach of network or other systems possible there.

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Offline KillieRed

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Is it possible for CAS to recommend an even harsher penalty to dissuade frivolous and libellous appeals such as this?

Seems unlikely, but it would be outstanding.

I have very little faith in the PL showing any teeth on the domestic front, so I think the best hope is for the most powerful statement possible to be made in the European theatre.

I don`t believe so, pretty sure I heard a pundit dismiss this on a football podcast.
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Offline rob1966

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The suggestion seems to be that this was a shared login credentials for a bunch of people which is frankly bizarre in this day and age, if that is true then they did not use someone else's login details, they used the same one as everyone else had which had not been changed despite employee turnover.

This seems to be a SaaS solution so not on the City network either (https://isf.scout7.com/Apps/Login?ReturnUrl=%2F) so there was no breach of network or other systems possible there.



Anyone got the City login details?
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Online BarryCrocker

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Anyone got the City login details?

I got locked out after I tried it 6 Times.
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Offline Romford_Red

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Is it possible for CAS to recommend an even harsher penalty to dissuade frivolous and libellous appeals such as this?

Seems unlikely, but it would be outstanding.


It would be neither good nor outstanding. Everyone, everywhere should have the right of appeal to an independent body without fear or the threatening of sanctions for doing so.
Threatening greater sanctions for the pursuit of justice (however misguided) is the sort of thing an oppressive regime would do. Lets not be like that.

We may not like City or their owners, but that's no reason to be like them.

Offline Romford_Red

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In other news, City have started work on upgrades to the Etihad...


Offline thejbs

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We didn’t. I doubt the club knew anything about it. The actions of a rogue employee are the responsibility of the individual.

That’s conjecture. We don’t know if it was rogue or club sanctioned. All we know is that we (by lawful definition) hacked them and that the club settled it.

Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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It would be neither good nor outstanding. Everyone, everywhere should have the right of appeal to an independent body without fear or the threatening of sanctions for doing so.
Threatening greater sanctions for the pursuit of justice (however misguided) is the sort of thing an oppressive regime would do. Lets not be like that.

We may not like City or their owners, but that's no reason to be like them.


Think he was asking in relation to Sport,like appealing yellows,reds and other stuff like accusations of racism etc
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Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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That’s conjecture. We don’t know if it was rogue or club sanctioned. All we know is that we (by lawful definition) hacked them and that the club settled it.

So they had to crack the password  ?

My Mrs is always hacking into my phone,she knew the password but I only meant for her to use it when I was home,could she be done for hacking  ?
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Offline ToneLa

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Hacking is basically unauthorised access, doesn't have to be technical really

Social engineering (tricking someone into giving you a password) is hacking for example!

Anywho sod this, nothing's happening with it, it's them at Bluemoon stirring it up

Offline SP

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So they had to crack the password  ?

My Mrs is always hacking into my phone,she knew the password but I only meant for her to use it when I was home,could she be done for hacking  ?

Yes. The computer misuse act covers the use of a computer system when not authorised to do so. So if you authorised her in certain situations if she uses it outside those situations it is technically an offence. No one is likely to prosecute it, but it is against the law.

By analogy imagine that you entrusted your email password to your solicitor, to be used in the case of your death. If they just decided to nose through your email without you pegging out, an offence would be committed.

Offline Redsnappa

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Long read ... too long to post here, but here's Swiss Ramble on Abu Dhabi and UEFA posted this morning on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/1231847021973245952

EDIT: Actually easier to read on the thread reader app ... hope this link works:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1231847021973245952.html
« Last Edit: February 24, 2020, 11:00:48 am by Redsnappa »

Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Yes.


Is enough mate.




Does anyone know a good divorce lawyer ?

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Offline Onward Liverpudlian

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That’s conjecture. We don’t know if it was rogue or club sanctioned. All we know is that we (by lawful definition) hacked them and that the club settled it.

It was recently recruited ex-Manchester City employees who knew how to log-in so of course it was rogue, both clubs found out about it and it was settled...years ago.

The only alternative scenario is that it wasn't rogue, that it was totally club sanctioned or at least they knew about it and were completely relaxed and happy about it. So of course it was rogue.

Offline Romford_Red

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It was recently recruited ex-Manchester City employees who knew how to log-in so of course it was rogue, both clubs found out about it and it was settled...years ago.

The only alternative scenario is that it wasn't rogue, that it was totally club sanctioned or at least they knew about it and were completely relaxed and happy about it. So of course it was rogue.

With such a low fine and lack of fuss surrounding it (until now), my take on what likely happened...

Scouts get new job. Scouts log in to old network to get some data that THEY compiled. They didn't realise that they had no right to the data. They probably thought that because THEY compiled it, it was fair game, however any work completed whilst in the employ of a company usually remains property of the company.

They didn't realise that and got caught doing something they didn't really think was a big issue.

Offline Morgana

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This is so boring. Can't believe we're still entertaining City fans cryarsing over something that happened in 2013 and which has nothing whatsoever to do with them breaking FFP.  Taking deflection and whataboutery to new levels, and we're enabling the fuckers.

Offline SpionBob

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With such a low fine and lack of fuss surrounding it (until now), my take on what likely happened...

Scouts get new job. Scouts log in to old network to get some data that THEY compiled. They didn't realise that they had no right to the data. They probably thought that because THEY compiled it, it was fair game, however any work completed whilst in the employ of a company usually remains property of the company.

They didn't realise that and got caught doing something they didn't really think was a big issue.
My take on that too.

The email leaks from City were done by that Portuguese guy who is currently on trial. Apparently he set up drop box on their system and others systems and got tons of dodgy info from all over the place. Including the 'Ronaldo rape' as well as dodgy City stuff.
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Offline Andy82lfc

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This is so boring. Can't believe we're still entertaining City fans cryarsing over something that happened in 2013 and which has nothing whatsoever to do with them breaking FFP.  Taking deflection and whataboutery to new levels, and we're enabling the fuckers.

Agree. Apart from anything it really is just boring.

Long read ... too long to post here, but here's Swiss Ramble on Abu Dhabi and UEFA posted this morning on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/1231847021973245952

EDIT: Actually easier to read on the thread reader app ... hope this link works:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1231847021973245952.html


Lots of interesting info in there. I wonder how long it will take them to appeal? I thought I heard they only had 10 days to lodge it? I assume that could have already been done.

Offline vorsprungtorbenpieknik

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The fume emanating from Bluemoon and Twitter is almost as great as winning the title for the first time in 30 years, to be honest. Since I knew the league was in the bag as early as November, it's been great having City as an amusing side-show.

With that in mind, the UEFA ban has been like a gift from the comedy Gods. City fans piling in on journalists who dare criticise their owners, plans for their protest at upcoming CL games, infighting amongst fans.

Just lovely.

Offline Jm55

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With such a low fine and lack of fuss surrounding it (until now), my take on what likely happened...

Scouts get new job. Scouts log in to old network to get some data that THEY compiled. They didn't realise that they had no right to the data. They probably thought that because THEY compiled it, it was fair game, however any work completed whilst in the employ of a company usually remains property of the company.

They didn't realise that and got caught doing something they didn't really think was a big issue.

Come on. :lmao

You don't need to be an employment lawyer to know that logging on to a mainframe that is the property of an ex-employer and taking information from it is very unlikely to be acceptable to said ex-employer.

In all likelihood they will have signed contracts with confidentiality clauses in them as well.

Don't get me wrong, the fact that City fans are going on about it is ridiculous but then it's par for the course with the way they've been all season. I highly doubt it was an honest mistake though, more like one which they didn't think they'd get caught doing as they obviously still had the login credentials and didn't expect to be traced.

Offline rob1966

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Come on. :lmao

You don't need to be an employment lawyer to know that logging on to a mainframe that is the property of an ex-employer and taking information from it is very unlikely to be acceptable to said ex-employer.

In all likelihood they will have signed contracts with confidentiality clauses in them as well.

Don't get me wrong, the fact that City fans are going on about it is ridiculous but then it's par for the course with the way they've been all season. I highly doubt it was an honest mistake though, more like one which they didn't think they'd get caught doing as they obviously still had the login credentials and didn't expect to be traced.

You'd still try it on though. You've spent ages compiling dossiers on players and rather than redo it all, you have a go with a login you know and viola, you just download it and save yourself a load of work.
Jurgen YNWA

Offline Jm55

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You'd still try it on though. You've spent ages compiling dossiers on players and rather than redo it all, you have a go with a login you know and viola, you just download it and save yourself a load of work.

Try it on yeah, but in doing so you'd know that you were likely committing data theft. You wouldn't think 'I'm sure they won't mind if I go and join a direct rival and use this data to benefit said direct rival.'

I'm sure stuff like this goes on all the time, City are jumping on it for the same pathetic reason that they jumped on the bus incident (despite there being video evidence on YouTube of their fans bottling a bus,) and that reason is that they're well behind us in the league and want to cry about how unfair it is.

Offline Romford_Red

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Come on. :lmao

You don't need to be an employment lawyer to know that logging on to a mainframe that is the property of an ex-employer and taking information from it is very unlikely to be acceptable to said ex-employer.


I do graphics and other design stuff at my current job.
I can completely see how someone starting out in this industry might not understand that all of the content they generate whilst at work, belongs to their employer, not them. The designer retains the right to showcase that work for portfolio purposes, but that is all.

Now most of the time employers are not that strict and if I were to clear out my archive here and leave for another job, then reuse assets, most likely there would be no complaints. However my previous employer would be within their rights to demand not only that I cease using the materials, but that taking them in the first place was an offence.

So I can easily see how someone might think just grabbing data that they had curated, was not an issue.

Offline rob1966

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Try it on yeah, but in doing so you'd know that you were likely committing data theft. You wouldn't think 'I'm sure they won't mind if I go and join a direct rival and use this data to benefit said direct rival.'

I'm sure stuff like this goes on all the time, City are jumping on it for the same pathetic reason that they jumped on the bus incident (despite there being video evidence on YouTube of their fans bottling a bus,) and that reason is that they're well behind us in the league and want to cry about how unfair it is.

As Romford Red says, they may have thought that it was their work to take.

Happens all the time, even with people taking data they know isn't theirs - we've had loads of people quit for a rival hire company and download customer and contract data before they left. Unlike City, we track everything done, so we go back to what they did prior to leaving and disable their logins immediately. We also enforce 30 days password changes and monitor traffic across the network.
Jurgen YNWA

Offline reddebs

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Re: Man City - Anxieta in Proelia - thoughts with them during this difficult time
« Reply #3599 on: February 24, 2020, 02:06:10 pm »
Have they appealed yet?

I've still not seen anything confirming they have.