Topic: Chasing the Title

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Bayern - agreed to an extent, but only to an extent as in CL (although he got to 90 points & 88 points in 34 game leagues - any other Bayern managers who have done that?)

People just look at things from outside & form narratives, how many knew he broke these Bundesliga records in his first season there?

Number of matches remaining when title was won: 7
Earliest date to clinch Bundesliga title: 25 March
Most points in a season opening half: 47
Most wins in a season: 29
Most consecutive wins in a season: 19 (previous 'record' was 14, see the difference)

etc.

There are definite parallels to what he is doing now in the Premier League, the records that are getting broken, the points that his sides are able to achieve. To call it nothing special is being plain ignorant of what he achieved.

People look at CL, & it is his comparably his weakness, but managers like Mourinho and Ferguson have the same number of Champions League trophies as he does after 'n' number of attempts, yet the expectation on Guardiola is to win the CL every season & is considered a failure even when he reaches Semi (which he did for Bayern), it's plain outrageous. Mourinho & Ferguson were 'geniuses', yet Guardiola is 'fraud'. The double standards when talking about these 3 managers in media/general perception is extremely heavy imo.

I'm just not comfortable with people doing Everton level gymnastics to convince themselves that he's just not a damn good manager. Many managers have had financial advantage before, none of them managed to break records like he did in 3 different leagues.

I agree with all of that, I am not disputing his ability as a manager, nor am I saying that he's a fraud, but he took a treble winning side, that was expected to be get to another European cup final as they were at the peak of their powers [whether that's the right expectation or not].

I don't look at his time at Bayern to gauge his ability as a manager, he had no proper competition there, and he's great at maximizing top players. What he did at Barca was far more impressive and more telling of how good of a manager he is.

Getting knocked out by Monaco and Spurs imo is inexcusable however.

[Coolie High]

Bayern - agreed to an extent, but only to an extent as in CL (although he got to 90 points & 88 points in 34 game leagues - any other Bayern managers who have done that?)

People just look at things from outside & form narratives, how many knew he broke these Bundesliga records in his first season there?

Number of matches remaining when title was won: 7
Earliest date to clinch Bundesliga title: 25 March
Most points in a season opening half: 47
Most wins in a season: 29
Most consecutive wins in a season: 19 (previous 'record' was 14, see the difference)

etc.

There are definite parallels to what he is doing now in the Premier League, the records that are getting broken, the points that his sides are able to achieve. To call it nothing special is being plain ignorant of what he achieved.

People look at CL, & it is his comparably his weakness, but managers like Mourinho and Ferguson have the same number of Champions League trophies as he does after 'n' number of attempts, yet the expectation on Guardiola is to win the CL every season & is considered a failure even when he reaches Semi (which he did for Bayern), it's plain outrageous. Mourinho & Ferguson were 'geniuses', yet Guardiola is 'fraud'. The double standards when talking about these 3 managers in media/general perception is extremely heavy imo.

I'm just not comfortable with people doing Everton level gymnastics to convince themselves that he's just not a damn good manager. Many managers have had financial advantage before, none of them managed to break records like he did in 3 different leagues.

Good post, Guardiola is up there with the greatest managers in football history, he’s been one of the top 3 managers around every year for nigh on a decade now, he has 2 Cls with still plenty years to go the two managers with the most have 3, jackward is rightbto argue this manager is any less than world class is small time, his about to clock 95 points two seasons in a row, other managers have also been backed with money and never exerted that level of consistency.

[jooneyisdagod]

He is in a position to choose who he works for though. Rightly or wrongly he chooses to live with his employers record on human rights.

You could say the same about his decision to work in England as well then. The criticism is rather selective. If you want to criticise the owners, criticise them. Let's keep the football side to football.

[jillcwhomever]

Why are people talking about Guardiola in a Liverpool thread? Who gives a toss anyway?

Looking forward to seeing the team again, sad to think the whole season will be over shortly and it will be a while before we see this brilliant team once again. Three points should keep the pressure on City.

[jillcwhomever]

You could say the same about his decision to work in England as well then. The criticism is rather selective. If you want to criticise the owners, criticise them. Let's keep the football side to football.

Because you can't separate the two, that's the point. As a general question too do you think a guy like Klopp would work for Abi Dhabi? I'm pretty sure he wouldn't. Some people have standards in who they are prepared to work with.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

The Red Mancs look terrible, they're going to get mauled if they play like this on Wednesday

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

The Red Mancs look terrible, they're going to get mauled if they play like this on Wednesday

Of course they are, they're a terrible team, have been for years, last seasons 2nd place was a "miracle".

[Melbred]

Alright hopefully Rodgers can do something.

The Mancs look a shambles. Body language horrible all over the pitch.

[ac]

Wow United are such a shambles. Hopefully a chastening defeat at Everton wakes them up for Wednesday

[UntouchableLuis]

Alright hopefully Rodgers can do something.

The Mancs look a shambles. Body language horrible all over the pitch.

Leicester
United
Burnley
Brighton

That's the order I had from most likely to least likely to take points. I've moved United down to second now.

Burnley and Brighton will be at least 2-0 to City if not more.

[Ocean Red]

We need a miracle now, man utd are fucking shite. Hopefully Burnley can do something against city.

[PoetryInMotion]

I agree with all of that, I am not disputing his ability as a manager, nor am I saying that he's a fraud, but he took a treble winning side, that was expected to be get to another European cup final as they were at the peak of their powers [whether that's the right expectation or not].

Doesn't change the fact that he broke records in the league that none of his predecessors could over the years. It clearly is a pre-cursor to what he's doing now in the Premier League.

I don't look at his time at Bayern to gauge his ability as a manager, he had no proper competition there, and he's great at maximizing top players. What he did at Barca was far more impressive and more telling of how good of a manager he is.

Again, he was one of the best ever Bayern had in terms of League results. He didn't just 'win' leagues. He blew the league away like no one else had done before.

I don't disagree with the last part. He did much more at Barca, but his Bayern stint doesn't make him any less greater.

Getting knocked out by Monaco and Spurs imo is inexcusable however.

Not any more inexcusable than Ferguson getting knocked out by Monaco, or in group stages led by mighty IFK Göteborg, again in Group stages to Villareal, Benfica & Lille or once again in Group stages to Benfica, Basel & Oțelul Galați.

Or Mourinho getting knocked out by Sevilla. Or the fact that Mourinho never won the CL with both Chelsea and Real Madrid. Failures?

This competition is tough. If you come to think of it, only Zidane has a perfect record in the CL and even he has a question mark on him, because it wasn't even the squad that Zidane built in the first place that was good enough to win the CL. The squad was already there & it wasn't Zidane's.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Doesn't change the fact that he broke records in the league that none of his predecessors could over the years. It clearly is a pre-cursor to what he's doing now in the Premier League.

Again, he was one of the best ever Bayern had in terms of League results. He didn't just 'win' leagues. He blew the league away like no one else had done before.

I don't disagree with the last part. He did much more at Barca, but his Bayern stint doesn't make him any less greater.

Not any more inexcusable than Ferguson getting knocked out by Monaco, or in group stages led by mighty IFK Göteborg, again in Group stages to Villareal, Benfica & Lille or once again in Group stages to Benfica, Basel & Oțelul Galați.

Or Mourinho getting knocked out by Sevilla. Or the fact that Mourinho never won the CL with both Chelsea and Real Madrid. Failures?

This competition is tough. If you come to think of it, only Zidane has a perfect record in the CL and even he has a question mark on him, because it wasn't even the squad that Zidane built in the first place that was good enough to win the CL.

I agree with that as well, I believe Ferguson underachieved in Europe considering the sides he's had and considering he was at the club for 20 some years.

[Tiz Lad]

If anyone thinks this bunch of no marks is getting anything off City they're deluding themselves.

Prima Donnas without the stomach for a fight.

United hierarchy fooled by a run of easy games into appointing a novice with no clue.

They're getting stuffed Wednesday

[PoetryInMotion]

Of course they are, they're a terrible team, have been for years, last seasons 2nd place was a "miracle".

Rather, a 'De Gea' miracle.

[ianrush]

Only way United get anything during the week is if they put Mourinho back in charge for that game.

[TheShanklyGates]

Why are people talking about Guardiola in a Liverpool thread? Who gives a toss anyway?

Why are people talking about the manager of our title rivals in a thread called 'Chasing the Title'?

I don't know, it's a mystery.

[Jack The Lad]

Leicester
United
Burnley
Brighton

That's the order I had from most likely to least likely to take points. I've moved United down to second now.

Burnley and Brighton will be at least 2-0 to City if not more.

Dream run in that. Not watching the Everton game but if United are as bad as being made out then that’s City getting 12 points. No way Leicester get anything from the Etihad.

[Barneylfc∗]

We need a miracle now, man utd are fucking shite. Hopefully Burnley can do something against city.

One team beating another team is not a miracle.

[PoetryInMotion]

We got to do our best, win all our games & take it to the last day. That is in our hands!

Come on Liverpool!

[UntouchableLuis]

Dream run in that. Not watching the Everton game but if United are as bad as being made out then that’s City getting 12 points. No way Leicester get anything from the Etihad.

I'd rather have our run in than theirs to be fair but then I'd say at least 5 or 6 teams try vs us but not them so it's not a level playing field. For example if we had their run in then United would bring Ferguson in as manager, Sign Ronaldo for the match and play like it's the game to crown a treble and Burnley would put Salah in hospital.

[harleydanger]

Utd are lucky to be 6th

[LFC when it suits]

These are abnormal points tallies in the PL. Unfortunately City (probably against the rules) with Guardiola in charge have raised the bar over the last two years, and this may be their norm.

But this is not solely down to Pep, he has been rather fortunate (like Mourinho before him) to have the luxury of managing the most expensively assembled squad in the league and the biggest spending power to supplement it. I'm pretty sure that he wouldn't be getting 90+ points with any other team in the league this season (bar maybe Man Utd) had he gone there when he went to City

This is normal for Pep. 2 times with Barca, he got in the 95-100 points range and with Bayern, he got the equivelent of that range twice with 88 and 90 poitns in a 34 game season. Weather he is fortunate or not, this is the bar he sets in the league where ever he goes.

Elite managers are jusdged in the Champions league and thats where he gets found out. However, in terms of the league, there is no other manager better.

[jooneyisdagod]

Because you can't separate the two, that's the point. As a general question too do you think a guy like Klopp would work for Abi Dhabi? I'm pretty sure he wouldn't. Some people have standards in who they are prepared to work with.

You can and you should IMO. I don't know whether or not Klopp would work for Man City. Unlikely but there are other reasons as to why he won't do that IMO that have little to do with their owner's human rights record.

[jillcwhomever]

Why are people talking about the manager of our title rivals in a thread called 'Chasing the Title'?

I don't know, it's a mystery.

They're talking about his career generally, if they want to do that take it to the City thread. This is about the title chase, not a biography on Guardiola's career. 

[El Lobo]

One team beating another team is not a miracle.

It is though

You think Man City could drop points against teams like Leicester or Burnley? More fool you. There’s no recent history to even suggest it’s a possibility.

[jooneyisdagod]

Utd are lucky to be 6th

They're absolute shite based on this showing. They looked unrealistically energetic when we played them earlier in the season and now that they've had 10 or so game under Ole, it looks like their legs are gone. Moreover, they can't be content with parking the bus and nicking something on a counter as they did during their run of good form. I have little faith in them getting any points off City based on this showing. Absolute shite.

[Jack The Lad]

Why are people talking about the manager of our title rivals in a thread called 'Chasing the Title'?

I don't know, it's a mystery.

Probably because he’s the manager of the team that could beat us to the league ...........

[nico 8]

Unless Man Utd turn it around in both performance and result in the second half, can they really afford another sub par performance? As much as they may be poor, there is no excuse for lack of effort. Never mind not playing for top 4 or the fact that it is a derby, are they not playing for their future- both the players and the manager?

[Redwhiteandnotblue]

It is though

You think Man City could drop points against teams like Leicester or Burnley? More fool you. There’s no recent history to even suggest it’s a possibility.

Perhaps you should take a look at the recent history of those very fixtures before making a foolish statement like that.

[TheShanklyGates]

Probably because he’s the manager of the team that could beat us to the league ...........

You missed a heavy dose of sarcasm there mate

It's not me trying to be the forum police.

[latortuga]

Only way United get anything during the week is if they put Mourinho back in charge for that game.

Well Mourinho lost both home fixtures against City during his time at Utd, so not sure about that.  I don't think just setting up to stop Cityis the right appraoch, you've gotta take a few risks as well.  Mourinho never did that and just ceded 90 mins of possession.

[El Lobo]

Do you have a hook and net that goes with that comment?
It seems to have been quite successful!

See

Perhaps you should take a look at the recent history of those very fixtures before making a foolish statement like that.

There’s so many people talking utter wham, that even ridiculous shite is seen as serious 

It’s prime Ben Fostering season

[PoetryInMotion]

Perhaps you should take a look at the recent history of those very fixtures before making a foolish statement like that.

The hook is quite steady today it looks like 

[harleydanger]

It is though

You think Man City could drop points against teams like Leicester or Burnley? More fool you. There’s no recent history to even suggest it’s a possibility.

Can’t tell if sarcasm or not

[latortuga]

Unless Man Utd turn it around in both performance and result in the second half, can they really afford another sub par performance? As much as they may be poor, there is no excuse for lack of effort. Never mind not playing for top 4 or the fact that it is a derby, are they not playing for their future- both the players and the manager?

Solksjaer keeps coming out threatening them, while the media talks up a massive overhaul.  I imagine most of them realise they don't have a future at Utd and lacking that care factor.  Sucks for us but players like Pogba et al have downed tools thinking about Real Madrid and not getting injured. 

[Crosby Nick]

I thought it was 4mm.

My mistake. I always add on an extra 7mm.

[Lotus Eater]

It is though

You think Man City could drop points against teams like Leicester or Burnley? More fool you. There’s no recent history to even suggest it’s a possibility.

They lost at home to Palace, then against Leicester

[Redwhiteandnotblue]

See

There’s so many people talking utter wham, that even ridiculous shite is seen as serious 

It’s prime Ben Fostering season

You talk crap, you get called out for it. Especially if you have form.
No point claiming you weren't being serious after the fact lad.

[El Lobo]

Can’t tell if sarcasm or not

That’s the beauty of the current atmosphere

Even an old pro like Ben Foster would struggle to decide