Author Topic: Star Wars: The Rise Of Skywalker / The Mandalorian / The Clone Wars  (Read 229822 times)

Offline Chivasino

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Re: Star Wars: Rogue One / Rebels / The Last Jedi / Han Solo
« Reply #640 on: October 10, 2017, 03:47:03 pm »
Managed to book the BFI for first Sunday after release at 6.30am. The site kept crashing and when I did get in loads of showings were sold out.

Thought the trailer was good. Looking forward to it.

Offline Rob Dylan

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Re: Star Wars: Rogue One / Rebels / The Last Jedi / Han Solo
« Reply #641 on: October 10, 2017, 04:20:48 pm »
Those porgs are the most "We made this specifically to sell toys" things I think I've ever seen, and they are going to sell a metric fuckton of them.

They will sell loads, but to be fair the idea came from Rian Johnson, they're based on the puffins that live on the island they were filming on (they're not some Disney invention). Also, I doubt they will be defeating an army of stormtroopers like the Ewoks did...

Thought the trailer was great, can't help feeling there's a lot of misdirection going on in it. Also there's a lot more characters / locations that they haven't shown yet (other than in the BTS reel).

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Re: Star Wars: Rogue One / Rebels / The Last Jedi / Han Solo
« Reply #642 on: October 10, 2017, 04:26:21 pm »
The perfect time for booking tickets turned out to be 6.40am. On Odeon site, 20 mins before it should have been able to do so and crucially also before my kids under 5 woke up.

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Offline Macphisto80

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Re: Star Wars: Rogue One / Rebels / The Last Jedi / Han Solo
« Reply #643 on: October 10, 2017, 04:45:37 pm »
Just rewatched it and I still found it very underwhelming.

It seemed like star wars by numbers.

Yeah.

If I made a checklist of everything Star Wars'y contained in everything Star Wars (excluding sequels and cartoons) then I really don't think I'd have needed to have watched that trailer as it contained everything Star Warsy that's ever been Star Wars'd.

But, um, yeah, they made a slight design change to the AT-AT's. Bravo. Coming to a Toys'r'us real soon.

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Re: Star Wars: Rogue One / Rebels / The Last Jedi / Han Solo
« Reply #644 on: October 11, 2017, 12:49:58 pm »
Jesus didn't even realise they have a 'Rebel' base on a snow planet too.

Disney can do one.
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Re: Star Wars: Rogue One / Rebels / The Last Jedi / Han Solo
« Reply #645 on: October 11, 2017, 02:06:41 pm »
Just watching Stephen Colbert talking about the trailer and he was joking about the Chewy and Porgs and saying will they scenes between them just be them screaming and growling at each other.

Because before you had Hans to translate for Chewy. 
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Offline Something Worse

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Re: Star Wars: Rogue One / Rebels / The Last Jedi / Han Solo
« Reply #646 on: October 11, 2017, 05:40:36 pm »
Jesus didn't even realise they have a 'Rebel' base on a snow planet too.

Disney can do one.

When SP posted about being banned for spoilers I almost put "well we've already seen Empire so..." but I thought better of it
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Re: Star Wars: Rogue One / Rebels / The Last Jedi / Han Solo
« Reply #647 on: October 11, 2017, 06:58:59 pm »
Jesus didn't even realise they have a 'Rebel' base on a snow planet too.

Disney can do one.
Aaaaaaaaaand what's the odds it'll be attacked with At-At's and have a snow speeder or two in there too? Tauntaun's? Sure, why not? Throw a couple of Wampa's in there too to make the full set. It'll be just like watching the Hoth battle all over again.

People can call me cynical all they want. They'd a chance to design and create new characters, new stuff, and actually expand on things, but instead, I'm afraid, every single Star Wars sequel, prequel, or whatever, from here on out, is going to be nothing but fan service or a big budget fan film that says nothing other than "remember this?"  When Mark Hamill pops his clogs, we're going to get a CGI version of him like they did with Peter Cushing. You know it's going to happen.

Well, after writing that, I had to check the trailer out, and didn't realise there was another one released back in April.

Spoiler
Sure enough, there's AT-AT's that can be seen walking in the distance on the snow planet.
[close]

Offline Rob Dylan

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Re: Star Wars: Rogue One / Rebels / The Last Jedi / Han Solo
« Reply #648 on: October 11, 2017, 07:12:03 pm »
Jesus didn't even realise they have a 'Rebel' base on a snow planet too.

Disney can do one.

It's not a snow planet though. *****NERD ALERT***** It's an old mining planet with red soil, covered in a layer of salt. You can see the red soil in the trailer.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Crait

Anyway, Disney is not designing the planets or writing the story, that's Lucasfilm and Rian Johnson.

Offline Rob Dylan

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Re: Star Wars: Rogue One / Rebels / The Last Jedi / Han Solo
« Reply #649 on: October 11, 2017, 07:21:09 pm »
Aaaaaaaaaand what's the odds it'll be attacked with At-At's and have a snow speeder or two in there too? Tauntaun's? Sure, why not? Throw a couple of Wampa's in there too to make the full set. It'll be just like watching the Hoth battle all over again.

People can call me cynical all they want. They'd a chance to design and create new characters, new stuff, and actually expand on things, but instead, I'm afraid, every single Star Wars sequel, prequel, or whatever, from here on out, is going to be nothing but fan service or a big budget fan film that says nothing other than "remember this?"  When Mark Hamill pops his clogs, we're going to get a CGI version of him like they did with Peter Cushing. You know it's going to happen.

Well, after writing that, I had to check the trailer out, and didn't realise there was another one released back in April.

Spoiler
Sure enough, there's AT-AT's that can be seen walking in the distance on the snow planet.
[close]

Saw this just after I posted my last comment - see above, it's not a snow planet. Yes there are AT-ATs, but no snow speeders, wampas or tauntauns. Anyway the AT-ATs were obvious from the new trailer, you didn't need to watch the original one.

We've seen loads of new characters, and 'new stuff', it's just way too simplistic to say there's nothing new. Just wait till you see the film before you decide there's no new stuff and they haven't expanded on anything.


Offline Something Worse

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Re: Star Wars: Rogue One / Rebels / The Last Jedi / Han Solo
« Reply #650 on: October 11, 2017, 07:26:25 pm »
The furry minions are already annoying me and I've seen 4 seconds of footage. Fuck.
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Re: Star Wars: Rogue One / Rebels / The Last Jedi / Han Solo
« Reply #651 on: October 11, 2017, 07:28:59 pm »
Saw this just after I posted my last comment - see above, it's not a snow planet. Yes there are AT-ATs, but no snow speeders, wampas or tauntauns. Anyway the AT-ATs were obvious from the new trailer, you didn't need to watch the original one.

We've seen loads of new characters, and 'new stuff', it's just way too simplistic to say there's nothing new. Just wait till you see the film before you decide there's no new stuff and they haven't expanded on anything.


I suppose snow would be too on the nose, but the visual and the scenario are almost identical. A rebel base entrenched in the hillside, with dug out trenches aligning a battery defence and bunker system, on a white covered vista with AT-AT's attacking it. Just like Hoth.

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Re: Star Wars: Rogue One / Rebels / The Last Jedi / Han Solo
« Reply #652 on: October 11, 2017, 07:53:02 pm »
Course theres going to be AT-At's, why wouldnt there be? Just like X-Wings, they all get upgraded...plus if they introduced new vehicles there would be moaning about more to buy the kids or new vehicles for the sake of it...they cant win!
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Re: Star Wars: Rogue One / Rebels / The Last Jedi / Han Solo
« Reply #653 on: October 11, 2017, 08:16:16 pm »
Course theres going to be AT-At's, why wouldnt there be? Just like X-Wings, they all get upgraded...plus if they introduced new vehicles there would be moaning about more to buy the kids or new vehicles for the sake of it...they cant win!
Yep. True. Gotta give people what they want. This is only my personal opinion on it, but to me, its to the detriment of the films whenever they feel like they have to include almost every single aspect that people most fondly remembered in the originals. It's one of the reasons why I didn't care for TFA. It's as if they structured that film to facilitate those things, rather than including them in as a subtle throwback. That film just felt like a sequence of events to show you the Falcon, X-Wings, Tie Fighters etc etc. The entire plot was dictated by that.

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Re: Star Wars: Rogue One / Rebels / The Last Jedi / Han Solo
« Reply #654 on: October 11, 2017, 08:41:51 pm »
It's not a snow planet though. *****NERD ALERT***** It's an old mining planet with red soil, covered in a layer of salt. You can see the red soil in the trailer.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Crait

Anyway, Disney is not designing the planets or writing the story, that's Lucasfilm and Rian Johnson.

This cat/fox thing literally has icicles for ears... and the mountain is covered in 'snow'. It's clearly designed to be a Rebel Base of some sort, why are they even bloody Rebels anyway? They defeated the Empire, now they're the 'Resistance'. Makes me so annoyed  ;D



Naive to say Disney has no input, they're shaping this all over the show. The fact they've hired JJ to do the third speaks volumes - their track record with the recent two Star Wars films is pretty weak - and the reshoots and issues with The Last Jedi don't really help stop any concerns.
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Re: Star Wars: Rogue One / Rebels / The Last Jedi / Han Solo
« Reply #655 on: October 11, 2017, 09:19:26 pm »
This cat/fox thing literally has icicles for ears... and the mountain is covered in 'snow'. It's clearly designed to be a Rebel Base of some sort, why are they even bloody Rebels anyway? They defeated the Empire, now they're the 'Resistance'. Makes me so annoyed  ;D


The Republic sponsors the Resistance in First Order territory.  I should think that was very obvious!  Try to keep up! ;)
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Re: Star Wars: Rogue One / Rebels / The Last Jedi / Han Solo
« Reply #656 on: October 11, 2017, 10:03:15 pm »
This cat/fox thing literally has icicles for ears... and the mountain is covered in 'snow'. It's clearly designed to be a Rebel Base of some sort, why are they even bloody Rebels anyway? They defeated the Empire, now they're the 'Resistance'. Makes me so annoyed  ;D



Naive to say Disney has no input, they're shaping this all over the show. The fact they've hired JJ to do the third speaks volumes - their track record with the recent two Star Wars films is pretty weak - and the reshoots and issues with The Last Jedi don't really help stop any concerns.
AFAIK, there haven't been any such issues with TLJ.
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Re: Star Wars: Rogue One / Rebels / The Last Jedi / Han Solo
« Reply #657 on: October 11, 2017, 10:11:32 pm »
Looks like my dog.  Big lugged twat he is.

Offline Rob Dylan

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Re: Star Wars: Rogue One / Rebels / The Last Jedi / Han Solo
« Reply #658 on: October 11, 2017, 10:33:38 pm »
Yep. True. Gotta give people what they want. This is only my personal opinion on it, but to me, its to the detriment of the films whenever they feel like they have to include almost every single aspect that people most fondly remembered in the originals. It's one of the reasons why I didn't care for TFA. It's as if they structured that film to facilitate those things, rather than including them in as a subtle throwback. That film just felt like a sequence of events to show you the Falcon, X-Wings, Tie Fighters etc etc. The entire plot was dictated by that.

Yes there are similarities, but when you see it I think it will look different enough visually and the battle won’t necessarily play out the same way as Hoth. But regardless of the details, if it’s a bit like the battle of Hoth it doesn’t really bother me – having some similar designs and locations doesn’t automatically invalidate the rest of the film, it doesn’t mean the characters and story are automatically bad. Designs and locations are one thing, characters and story are another. The prequels had lots of different ship designs and new locations, but they were terrible films. TFA may have taken the callbacks too far in the case of Starkiller Base, but it doesn’t ruin the film. I can’t agree that it was just "a sequence of events to show you the Falcon, X-Wings, Tie Fighters etc etc." - the characters are what’s important, and I thought they were likeable and cared what happened to them (unlike the flat, badly-written characters of the prequels). And for all the talk of a ‘rehash’, TFA had plenty of new characters, ideas and things we hadn’t seen before, and The Last Jedi will have more. The rehash thing has just become a lazy criticism of these films – I mean I even saw someone complaining that there was a space battle and someone being trained as a Jedi…this is Star Wars, these things are always going to be there in one form or another.

It's clearly designed to be a Rebel Base of some sort, why are they even bloody Rebels anyway? They defeated the Empire, now they're the 'Resistance'. Makes me so annoyed  ;D

This was (mostly) explained in TFA (but it could have used a bit more explanation) – the First Order emerged from the remnants of the Empire, and are consciously trying to emulate them (hence their use of upgraded versions of their ships, etc). The Republic took over the galaxy after the Empire fell, they don’t take the threat from the First Order seriously and don’t want to get drawn into another war. But Leia does take them seriously so she forms a group to monitor / resist them – they’re small and not very well funded (hence their use of slightly outdated technology). With the Republic’s government and fleet destroyed in TFA, it’s basically now just the First Order v the Resistance.

Quote
Naive to say Disney has no input, they're shaping this all over the show.

See I don’t think it is naïve at all, I think you’re being kind of naïve – or rather, seeing things too simplistically. The whole thing is far more complex. Disney owns Lucasfilm, Lucasfilm makes the films. Lucasfilm employs hundreds (possibly thousands) of people, including artists, designers and writers – why would they bother if some Disney executives were making all the design and story choices? Disney trusts that Lucasfilm knows how to make Star Wars films well, and Kathleen Kennedy hires writers and directors who understand how these films should be written and directed. If it goes wrong or what they’re producing isn’t up to scratch, they get replaced. You have absolutely no evidence that Disney is "shaping this all over the show". How would that process even work anyway - do some sinister Disney executives draw up a list of things that must happen and things we must see in the films and give it to the director? Do they come up with their own designs but pretend that they actually employ concept artists and designers to do all that work independently? Do Disney write their own script but then pretend that they actually hired someone else to write it? Does Lucasfilm employ a whole ‘story group’ and pay them to do nothing because Disney is actually coming up with all the ideas themselves? Does Disney do the same with Marvel and Pixar movies as well?

It’s just typical of a kind of ‘naïve cynicism’ that people use to make themselves seem wise and like they know ‘what’s really going on’, that sees a conspiracy or sinister motive behind almost everything, yet is based on absolutely no evidence. It's so easy to say this stuff, without actually backing it up. The reality is almost always more complex and mundane.

Quote
the reshoots and issues with The Last Jedi don't really help stop any concerns.

Don’t know where you’re getting this from. Pretty sure there haven't been any reshoots or problems with the production of The Last Jedi, it was completed ahead of time and has had by far the smoothest production of all the new films (in contrast to Rogue One and the Han Solo movie).
« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 11:31:00 pm by Rob Dylan »

Offline Blinis

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Re: Star Wars: Rogue One / Rebels / The Last Jedi / Han Solo
« Reply #659 on: October 11, 2017, 11:16:22 pm »
Don’t know where you’re getting this from. There have been no reshoots and no problems with the production of The Last Jedi, it was completed ahead of time and has had by far the smoothest production of all the new films (in contrast to Rogue One and the Han Solo movie).

I'm pretty sure that they had some reshoots, but of absolutely no concern as it is now totally standard in the industry. Actors are supposed to stay available, and the budget lines are there to be used for reshoots. But you are right in saying that TLJ had by far the smoothest production of most new Disney films.
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Offline Macphisto80

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Re: Star Wars: Rogue One / Rebels / The Last Jedi / Han Solo
« Reply #660 on: October 11, 2017, 11:33:48 pm »
Yes there are similarities, but when you see it I think it will look different enough visually and the battle won’t necessarily play out the same way as Hoth. But regardless of the details, if it’s a bit like the battle of Hoth it doesn’t really bother me – having some similar designs and locations doesn’t automatically invalidate the rest of the film, it doesn’t mean the characters and story are automatically bad. Designs and locations are one thing, characters and story are another. The prequels had lots of different ship designs and new locations, but they were terrible films. TFA may have taken the callbacks too far in the case of Starkiller Base, but it doesn’t ruin the film. I can’t agree that it was just "a sequence of events to show you the Falcon, X-Wings, Tie Fighters etc etc." - the characters are what’s important, and I thought they were likeable and cared what happened to them (unlike the flat, badly-written characters of the prequels). And for all the talk of a ‘rehash’, TFA had plenty of new characters, ideas and things we hadn’t seen before, and The Last Jedi will have more. The rehash thing has just become a lazy criticism of these films – I mean I even saw someone complaining that there was a space battle and someone being trained as a Jedi…this is Star Wars, these things are always going to be there in one form or another.

This was (mostly) explained in TFA (but it could have used a bit more explanation) – the First Order emerged from the remnants of the Empire, and are consciously trying to emulate them (hence their use of upgraded versions of their ships, etc). The Republic took over the galaxy after the Empire fell, they don’t take the threat from the First Order seriously and don’t want to get drawn into another war. But Leia does take them seriously so she forms a group to monitor / resist them – they’re small and not very well funded (hence their use of slightly outdated technology). With the Republic’s government and fleet destroyed in TFA, it’s basically now just the First Order v the Resistance.

See I don’t think it is naïve at all, I think you’re being kind of naïve – or rather, seeing things too simplistically. The whole thing is far more complex. Disney owns Lucasfilm, Lucasfilm makes the films. Lucasfilm employs hundreds (possibly thousands) of people, including artists, designers and writers – why would they bother if some Disney executives were making all the design and story choices? Disney trusts that Lucasfilm knows how to make Star Wars films well, and Kathleen Kennedy hires writers and directors who understand how these films should be written and directed. If it goes wrong or what they’re producing isn’t up to scratch, they get replaced. You have absolutely no evidence that Disney is "shaping this all over the show". How would that process even work anyway - do some sinister Disney executives draw up a list of things that must happen and things we must see in the films and give it to the director? Do they come up with their own designs but pretend that they actually employ concept artists and designers to do all that work independently? Do Disney write their own script but then pretend that they actually hired someone else to write it? Does Lucasfilm employ a whole ‘story group’ and pay them to do nothing because Disney is actually coming up with all the ideas themselves? Does Disney do the same with Marvel and Pixar movies as well?

It’s just typical of a kind of ‘naïve cynicism’ that people use to make themselves seem wise and like they know ‘what’s really going on’, that sees a conspiracy or sinister motive behind almost everything, yet is based on absolutely no evidence. It's so easy to say this stuff, without actually backing it up. The reality is almost always more complex and mundane.

Don’t know where you’re getting this from. There have been no reshoots and no problems with the production of The Last Jedi, it was completed ahead of time and has had by far the smoothest production of all the new films (in contrast to Rogue One and the Han Solo movie).
I'm not saying TFA is a bad film. But I do think it was the safest, and even the laziest, sequel to anything I've ever watched.  I think they just went overboard with all the fan service in it, and that's partly due to the prequels being such a flop, that they thought they had to put as much Star Wars (the best ones) back into it as possible. For me, it would have been great if they handled some of the reintroductions a little bit more patiently. The whole thing felt like a production to shove as much of the originals in from the get go, so much so, it felt clumbsy and hamfisted to the point where the contrivances just spoiled the whole thing. It's like Disney got excited about having the licenses  that all they could think about was making a film so they could fit scenes of it into a trailer showing everything iconic about the series in one crack early. A wee bit of restraint would have been great. Surely they could have found a better way to write how the Falcon turned up (as one example) again, and with Chewie and Lando just so happened to be in the same part of space to reunite them with it? OK. They knew there was no way the first film was going to bomb, so they'd three - at least -  script's worth to work stuff like that in a bit better. Again, it's a personal preference, but I'd have loved it if they kept the reveals of the big iconic stuff and sprinkled them over the course of three films. Have the Falcon (with updated modification to show the time gap) suddenly burst out of hyperspace in a action scene, with Lando and Chewie piloting it to save Rey and Finn's skin against a couple of pursuing Tie fighters or something. Keep it out of the trailers. You know. Leave a big moment or two for the audience to enjoy in the theatre, instead of blowing your load in the trailers.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 11:35:50 pm by Macphisto80 »

Offline Kashinoda

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Re: Star Wars: Rogue One / Rebels / The Last Jedi / Han Solo
« Reply #661 on: October 11, 2017, 11:45:06 pm »
It’s just typical of a kind of ‘naïve cynicism’ that people use to make themselves seem wise and like they know ‘what’s really going on’, that sees a conspiracy or sinister motive behind almost everything, yet is based on absolutely no evidence. It's so easy to say this stuff, without actually backing it up. The reality is almost always more complex and mundane.

Don’t know where you’re getting this from. Pretty sure there haven't been any reshoots or problems with the production of The Last Jedi, it was completed ahead of time and has had by far the smoothest production of all the new films (in contrast to Rogue One and the Han Solo movie).

They had an massive script re-write to shrink the roles of two new characters, they've pushed the release date back twice, and they've had reshoots. Carrie Fisher is responsible for some of that but not all.

Lucasfilm isn't a separate entity to Disney, it's owned by them. It's Disney execs that hired a new director and ordered massive reshoots on Rogue One, to what avail I'll never know. I'm not sure they trust Lucasfilm or the people they hire, it's why JJ is back.

It's not sinister, it's just dull and safe and aimed at producing the most money to appeal to the most people. Every studio does it, it is what it is.

Quote
This was (mostly) explained in TFA (but it could have used a bit more explanation) – the First Order emerged from the remnants of the Empire, and are consciously trying to emulate them (hence their use of upgraded versions of their ships, etc). The Republic took over the galaxy after the Empire fell, they don’t take the threat from the First Order seriously and don’t want to get drawn into another war. But Leia does take them seriously so she forms a group to monitor / resist them – they’re small and not very well funded (hence their use of slightly outdated technology). With the Republic’s government and fleet destroyed in TFA, it’s basically now just the First Order v the Resistance.

An explanation doesn't make it any less dull.

Here, we're rehashing the storyline from the original, here's the story to back it up. Enjoy.

Star Wars by the numbers.

:D

Offline Something Worse

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Re: Star Wars: Rogue One / Rebels / The Last Jedi / Han Solo
« Reply #662 on: October 11, 2017, 11:52:21 pm »
I'm not saying TFA is a bad film. But I do think it was the safest, and even the laziest, sequel to anything I've ever watched.  I think they just went overboard with all the fan service in it, and that's partly due to the prequels being such a flop, that they thought they had to put as much Star Wars (the best ones) back into it as possible. For me, it would have been great if they handled some of the reintroductions a little bit more patiently. The whole thing felt like a production to shove as much of the originals in from the get go, so much so, it felt clumbsy and hamfisted to the point where the contrivances just spoiled the whole thing. It's like Disney got excited about having the licenses  that all they could think about was making a film so they could fit scenes of it into a trailer showing everything iconic about the series in one crack early. A wee bit of restraint would have been great. Surely they could have found a better way to write how the Falcon turned up (as one example) again, and with Chewie and Lando just so happened to be in the same part of space to reunite them with it? OK. They knew there was no way the first film was going to bomb, so they'd three - at least -  script's worth to work stuff like that in a bit better. Again, it's a personal preference, but I'd have loved it if they kept the reveals of the big iconic stuff and sprinkled them over the course of three films. Have the Falcon (with updated modification to show the time gap) suddenly burst out of hyperspace in a action scene, with Lando and Chewie piloting it to save Rey and Finn's skin against a couple of pursuing Tie fighters or something. Keep it out of the trailers. You know. Leave a big moment or two for the audience to enjoy in the theatre, instead of blowing your load in the trailers.

They want to sell toys and apps and stuff. That's why in the prequels you saw the direction the technology was going leading up to X Wings and stormtroopers and ATATs. And in these ones they just reuse the same things, because they know an X Wing will sell move than a Q Wing and an ATAT will sell more than something newer. It's why these Porgs are so obnoxious - they saw how insane people got over Minions and BB88 and realised they could cash in on it.

And I wouldn't even care - I'm pretty sure the OT spawned this cash in behavior - if the next movies had any heart or love in them. Instead they stripped down 4 and refleshed it for 7 and they're doing the same it seems with 5 and 8. Except because it's modernized, you get shit like your first sight of the new villain being ruined because a goody pilot is mocking him before he says a word. Gotta get those quips in!

I hope I'm wrong about 8 but nothing about 7 or this trailer suggests otherwise for the reasons you already listed.
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Re: Star Wars: Rogue One / Rebels / The Last Jedi / Han Solo
« Reply #663 on: October 12, 2017, 12:32:00 am »
Have said since i saw it we will eventually see episode 7 as a wasted opportunity. Wasnt a bad film but it didnt achieve much more than what could have filled a half instead of a full movie. Hopefully 8 and 9 have some risks to them in terms of the story line. Would have preferred a complete role reversal in this trilogy with the first order being the smaller rebel type force trying to regain power from the republic but hey ho the first order have even bigger weapons than the empire did and the sides are effectively the same as the original trilogy

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Re: Star Wars: Rogue One / Rebels / The Last Jedi / Han Solo
« Reply #664 on: October 12, 2017, 12:52:58 am »
They had an massive script re-write to shrink the roles of two new characters, they've pushed the release date back twice, and they've had reshoots. Carrie Fisher is responsible for some of that but not all.

Lucasfilm isn't a separate entity to Disney, it's owned by them. It's Disney execs that hired a new director and ordered massive reshoots on Rogue One, to what avail I'll never know. I'm not sure they trust Lucasfilm or the people they hire, it's why JJ is back.

It's not sinister, it's just dull and safe and aimed at producing the most money to appeal to the most people. Every studio does it, it is what it is.

An explanation doesn't make it any less dull.



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You say they had a massive script re-write. I've never heard that before. Where did you get that info?

Re: Rogue One. The director originally wanted an upbeat ending where Cassian and Jyn both survive. Indeed, the early trailers saw them on the beach after escaping with the plans. Disney/LFL/whoever nixed that idea and insisted they must die. Hardly safe is it?
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Re: Star Wars: Rogue One / Rebels / The Last Jedi / Han Solo
« Reply #665 on: October 12, 2017, 02:27:47 am »
They want to sell toys and apps and stuff. That's why in the prequels you saw the direction the technology was going leading up to X Wings and stormtroopers and ATATs. And in these ones they just reuse the same things, because they know an X Wing will sell move than a Q Wing and an ATAT will sell more than something newer. It's why these Porgs are so obnoxious - they saw how insane people got over Minions and BB88 and realised they could cash in on it.

And I wouldn't even care - I'm pretty sure the OT spawned this cash in behavior - if the next movies had any heart or love in them. Instead they stripped down 4 and refleshed it for 7 and they're doing the same it seems with 5 and 8. Except because it's modernized, you get shit like your first sight of the new villain being ruined because a goody pilot is mocking him before he says a word. Gotta get those quips in!

I hope I'm wrong about 8 but nothing about 7 or this trailer suggests otherwise for the reasons you already listed.
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Re: Star Wars: Rogue One / Rebels / The Last Jedi / Han Solo
« Reply #666 on: October 12, 2017, 09:10:58 am »
Yep. True. Gotta give people what they want. This is only my personal opinion on it, but to me, its to the detriment of the films whenever they feel like they have to include almost every single aspect that people most fondly remembered in the originals. It's one of the reasons why I didn't care for TFA. It's as if they structured that film to facilitate those things, rather than including them in as a subtle throwback. That film just felt like a sequence of events to show you the Falcon, X-Wings, Tie Fighters etc etc. The entire plot was dictated by that.

Now that I fully agree with. It was like a reboot of ANH. Im hoping that was to just start it off safe and steady. Fingers crossed for a none ESB remake.
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Re: Star Wars: Rogue One / Rebels / The Last Jedi / Han Solo
« Reply #667 on: October 12, 2017, 09:55:57 am »
I said at the time of TFA that when I came out of the cinema I was disappointed that I didn't want to go back and watch it again.  I was desperate to watch Rogue One again though.  They are both arguably "by the numbers" but Rogue One wins for me because of the nostalgia value of the era it is set in.  Rogue One for my money is the best SW film since the OT, probably because it links directly into the OT.

Pick ups don't worry me.  Reshoots are common on big films; even the prequels had them.  Without the Rogue One reshoots we might not have had Vader's corridor scene.  We all know TFA played too safe; and we were been promised that The Last Jedi will be a very different animal.  But it looks set to continue the trend of putting more emphasis on the characters than the story.

The stuff with Kylo, Rey and Finn looks really interesting; they're the threads I took from the trailer, but nothing else really stood out for me.  It all looks rather generic, if visually impressive.  But it comes across as a film using Star Wars tropes to sell a character driven story that could probably stand on its own without the Star Wars label - but probably wouldn't sell as well.

There's nothing in that trailer that makes me desperately want to see this film.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 10:01:14 am by Red Beret »
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Offline Rob Dylan

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Re: Star Wars: Rogue One / Rebels / The Last Jedi / Han Solo
« Reply #668 on: October 12, 2017, 10:25:40 am »
I'm not saying TFA is a bad film. But I do think it was the safest, and even the laziest, sequel to anything I've ever watched.  I think they just went overboard with all the fan service in it, and that's partly due to the prequels being such a flop, that they thought they had to put as much Star Wars (the best ones) back into it as possible. For me, it would have been great if they handled some of the reintroductions a little bit more patiently. The whole thing felt like a production to shove as much of the originals in from the get go, so much so, it felt clumbsy and hamfisted to the point where the contrivances just spoiled the whole thing. It's like Disney got excited about having the licenses  that all they could think about was making a film so they could fit scenes of it into a trailer showing everything iconic about the series in one crack early. A wee bit of restraint would have been great. Surely they could have found a better way to write how the Falcon turned up (as one example) again, and with Chewie and Lando just so happened to be in the same part of space to reunite them with it? OK.

Except that is more or less what they did – Han & Chewie didn’t appear until 40 minutes in, Leia not until 80 mins, and Luke not until the last two minutes, allowing the new characters space to develop. Incidentally, holding Luke back until right at the end was not an easy, safe choice – it would have been the easiest thing in the world to have him come in and save the day half way through, and probably what would’ve happened if Disney had been controlling everything. Of course the marketing was always going to focus on the familiar stuff right from the beginning, but that’s not how the actual film plays out. Also regarding Han finding the Falcon, it was clear from the film that they were actually looking for it, and had an idea of who had stolen it. Han even says at one point “You think it was luck that we found the Falcon?”

The development of TFA was a long process which started with some basic ideas from George Lucas, Michael Arndt then started developing a script, eventually JJ Abrams and Lawrence Kasdan took over to develop the final screenplay, and they worked with the ‘story group’ at Lucasfilm to ensure continuity with all the other things that were being produced (Rebels, books, other films etc). It was a collaborative effort that was far more complex than just Disney telling them to chuck in a load of TIE fighters and X-wings and bash out any old rubbish because they knew people would lap it up.

They chose to go the direction they did for a reason. When ANH came out no-one knew anything about the Force or Jedi or midichlorians(!), it was just a simple space adventure with great characters and an underlying tone of mysticism – the deeper and darker stuff came later. Now some people might have preferred that they made a film that was more complex and could only be understood by people with a prior knowledge of the history of the Force and the Sith and all that, but what they were trying to do was bring in a new generation of kids who had maybe never seen Star Wars, keeping it simple the way that ANH did – while still containing enough references to the original films to keep the older fans happy. There’s nothing wrong with not liking the way they did it or wishing they had done something more original or risky, and there’s nothing wrong with thinking the callbacks went too far in places (which I agree with), but that doesn’t automatically mean that it was all just a cynical Disney-controlled cash grab – it was just the direction they chose to go in.

Before TFA, we’d only had two types of Star Wars films – the originals (great) and the prequels (poor) – I was happy that TFA was far closer to the quality and spirit of the originals than the prequels, and introduced likeable new characters. When you think about how many potential pitfalls there were and how many things they could’ve got wrong, I think they did a great job.

They had an massive script re-write to shrink the roles of two new characters, they've pushed the release date back twice, and they've had reshoots. Carrie Fisher is responsible for some of that but not all.

Nope, that's completely wrong. You're getting it mixed up with Rogue One (which had major rewrites and reshoots) and Episode 9 (which has been pushed back from May to December 2019). Episode 8 was always due to come out in December this year - if it had been pushed back twice that means it would have originally scheduled to come out in December 2016 - only a year after TFA and at the same time as Rogue One. That makes no sense. There were some slight chnages made to the script regarding a couple of the new characters - but that was way back in early 2016, well before filming even started. Carrie Fisher had already finished all her scenes and they've already said that they haven't changed Episode 8 to take into account her death. At least get your facts right.

Quote
Lucasfilm isn't a separate entity to Disney, it's owned by them. It's Disney execs that hired a new director and ordered massive reshoots on Rogue One, to what avail I'll never know. I'm not sure they trust Lucasfilm or the people they hire, it's why JJ is back.

Yes Lucasfilm is owned by Disney, but it is a separate company. If Disney wanted to make all the decisions why didn’t they just buy the rights to Star Wars and then disband Lucasfilm, so they could do it all themselves? And again you're saying stuff with absolutely no evidence. The reshoots on Rogue One came about through the director and Lucasfilm wanting to rework the final act to make it flow better, and they hired Tony Gilroy to help get it done quickly as they were short on time - the original director was still fully involved. JJ is back because Lucasfilm feel he did a good job with TFA, he was executive producer on TLJ and he can easily slot back into the process at short notice (they had originally asked Rian Johnson but he wasn’t available).The original director was fired because the script he had come up with simply wasn't working, he was unable or unwilling to improve it and apparently his working relationship with Kathleen Kennedy had completely broken down.

It was the same with the Han Solo movie, they were apparently deviating too far from the script and the actors and writers were uncomfortable with it. Kennedy had first hand knowledge of how the production was going and made the decision based on that, this is just the practical reality of how things work in the real world. If what you’re saying was the reality, then why would Disney (who supposedly only care about money) bother employing Kathleen Kennedy at all, as according to you she is just sitting around in her office doing nothing and not making any decisions? You have absolutely no evidence or inside knowledge to back up what you’re saying. If Disney were controlling everything and making all the big decisions, why bother hiring big name writers and directors? Why not just hire nobodies to just go through the motions and churn out any old rubbish? Why would high profile people risk their reputation by putting their name to something they had next to no creative control over? We all saw what happened to George Lucas’ reputation when he made bad Star Wars films.

Quote
An explanation doesn't make it any less dull.

Whether it's dull or not is not the point, you're moving the goalposts - you said you didn't understand it, I explained it and said it was (partially) explained in TFA.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 10:56:48 am by Rob Dylan »

Offline Rob Dylan

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Re: Star Wars: Rogue One / Rebels / The Last Jedi / Han Solo
« Reply #669 on: October 12, 2017, 10:32:40 am »
You say they had a massive script re-write. I've never heard that before. Where did you get that info?

Re: Rogue One. The director originally wanted an upbeat ending where Cassian and Jyn both survive. Indeed, the early trailers saw them on the beach after escaping with the plans. Disney/LFL/whoever nixed that idea and insisted they must die. Hardly safe is it?

Exactly, having everyone die at the end is not a safe choice that Disney might have made if they were controlling everything. The same with holding back Luke until the end of TFA - the easiest thing would've been to bring him in to save the day half way through, but the director was given the freedom to do what he thought worked best.

Just on Rogue One though, apparently the director always planned for everyone to die, but didn't think he'd be allowed to do it. The reshoots were done to re-shape the battle on Scarif - originally they had to get the plans and run across the beach to the tower to transmit them (as shown in the first trailer). But apparently that didn't work so well within the film so they changed it to have the plans and the tower in the same location. They also added the Vader corridor scene. When they change directors or do reshoots on these films, I see it as positive sign that they're trying to make the best films they can, rather than just churning out any old rubbish.

Offline Rob Dylan

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Re: Star Wars: Rogue One / Rebels / The Last Jedi / Han Solo
« Reply #670 on: October 12, 2017, 11:39:47 am »
Pick ups don't worry me.  Reshoots are common on big films; even the prequels had them.  Without the Rogue One reshoots we might not have had Vader's corridor scene.  We all know TFA played too safe; and we were been promised that The Last Jedi will be a very different animal.  But it looks set to continue the trend of putting more emphasis on the characters than the story.

The stuff with Kylo, Rey and Finn looks really interesting; they're the threads I took from the trailer, but nothing else really stood out for me.  It all looks rather generic, if visually impressive.  But it comes across as a film using Star Wars tropes to sell a character driven story that could probably stand on its own without the Star Wars label - but probably wouldn't sell as well.

Interesting, personally I'd have said that Star Wars was always about characters over story - the stories were just a mixture of different myths and fairy stories, it was the characters that kept us coming back. It's one of the reasons why the prequels didn't work - however many lightsaber duels, space battles and new planets Lucas chucked at the screen, I just didn't care about or believe in the characters he created.

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Re: Star Wars: Rogue One / Rebels / The Last Jedi / Han Solo
« Reply #671 on: October 12, 2017, 11:59:54 am »
Interesting, personally I'd have said that Star Wars was always about characters over story - the stories were just a mixture of different myths and fairy stories, it was the characters that kept us coming back. It's one of the reasons why the prequels didn't work - however many lightsaber duels, space battles and new planets Lucas chucked at the screen, I just didn't care about or believe in the characters he created.

Absolutely agree. It's why Rogue One was so terrible.

Was so on board with having a darker, more morally ambiguous, prequel. But they managed to fail to make it either dark/ambiguous or fun/entertaining/interesting. Throw in that it was mostly boring and preposterous story, in all but the end, and lacked any spark of personality in any of the main characters, and it makes for a massive wasted opportunity and waste of talent.

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Re: Star Wars: Rogue One / Rebels / The Last Jedi / Han Solo
« Reply #672 on: October 12, 2017, 12:28:13 pm »
Interesting, personally I'd have said that Star Wars was always about characters over story - the stories were just a mixture of different myths and fairy stories, it was the characters that kept us coming back. It's one of the reasons why the prequels didn't work - however many lightsaber duels, space battles and new planets Lucas chucked at the screen, I just didn't care about or believe in the characters he created.

I was a kid when I watched Star Wars.  I watched it for the battles.  ;D

You're not wrong, but also you're not entirely right either.  When you look at the OT, most of the character development comes after the first film, which is literally the farmboy, wizard, rogue, princess, sidekick and servants against the evil overlord in his fortress.  We know Luke's dad died, we know there's history between Kenobi and Vader, but that's basically it.

I always felt that the key to the OT was that they were doing stuff we'd never seen before.  The visual manner of the story telling helped keep us engaged.  I liked Rogue One because they showed me something that was, at once, completely new and utterly familiar.  The characters were simple but they didn't jar me out of the film.  The story was linear and straightforward, and yes it tried to come across as smarter and more complex than it was or needed to be, which was a weakness as it led to padding.  But I certainly don't subscribe to the opinion of some that in 10 years' time we'll look on Rogue One the same way we view Phantom Menace now.

The prequels fail on every single level to engage.  There was nothing I could latch onto; everything was convoluted and overdone.  Badly written characters, stilted dialogue; long winded, poorly edited action scenes.  So much good stuff was hinted at but never fully explored.

TFA was superior but ultimately it was good characters wrapped up in tired, worn out old tropes.  Visually it was pretty weak.  The first chase scene with the Falcon is very good, but by this point it's nothing we haven't seen before.  It made me smile but ultimately the movie as a whole wasn't very satisfying.  It's not a spectacle.  It doesn't feel epic.

Ultimately for me the first third of TFA was very strong, but from the moment those creatures got loose on Solo's freighter the entire movie just fell off a cliff for me, with the characters doing their best to hold it together.  From that point, the action feels overdone and lacked any real emotional engagement.  I knew Solo was dead the minute Leia asked him to bring their son back - I had 20 minutes or so to mentally prepare for that scene between Han and Kylo.  I was just sitting there thinking, "will you just hurry up and kill him already?"  I've just come to the conclusion that, in playing as safe as they did, the movie became completely generic.

When you read the "Heir to the Empire" series with Thrawn, you have to ask yourself: how hard can it be to write good Star Wars?  Something that is new and exciting, with strong characters, both good and bad guys, yet still feels undeniably Star Wars?
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 12:34:26 pm by Red Beret »
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Re: Star Wars: Rogue One / Rebels / The Last Jedi / Han Solo
« Reply #673 on: October 12, 2017, 12:39:06 pm »
TLJ rewrites delayed filming by one month. and were needed because:

"I said before there were two young female roles, now I actually heard that the rewrite will make these roles smaller. They want to get to know better the characters they already have. So the new rewrite is shrinking the new roles in order to spend more time with Rey, Poe and so on."

That's a non-issue. They are taking the time to get it right, rather than rush through.

It doesn't even compare to a pair of directors getting fired halfway through filming.
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Re: Star Wars: Rogue One / Rebels / The Last Jedi / Han Solo
« Reply #674 on: October 12, 2017, 02:12:13 pm »
TLJ rewrites delayed filming by one month. and were needed because:

"I said before there were two young female roles, now I actually heard that the rewrite will make these roles smaller. They want to get to know better the characters they already have. So the new rewrite is shrinking the new roles in order to spend more time with Rey, Poe and so on."

That's a non-issue. They are taking the time to get it right, rather than rush through.

It doesn't even compare to a pair of directors getting fired halfway through filming.

That sounds like a perfectly good reason for a script re-write iMO.

We've had these new characters for one movie, we've started to figure out who they are as a character and how their personality will grow, adding more characters to it and giving the new ones from TFA less development would have been a blow and would have detracted from the character building that started in TFA.

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Re: Star Wars: Rogue One / Rebels / The Last Jedi / Han Solo
« Reply #675 on: October 12, 2017, 02:16:53 pm »
Maybe it's nostalgia affecting me, but I don't find any of these new characters remotely appealing. Tony Stark, rebel pilot was obnoxious. Finn looked like a guy desperately trying to remember his lines while Rey was the most ridiculous character in the whole franchise, and I remember those insane Boba Fett EU stories where he was basically the baddest man alive. I didn't mind Kylo Ren as much as the heroes, but they cut his balls off early and then kept cutting throughout the movie.
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Re: Star Wars: Rogue One / Rebels / The Last Jedi / Han Solo
« Reply #676 on: October 12, 2017, 02:19:01 pm »
Maybe it's nostalgia affecting me, but I don't find any of these new characters remotely appealing. Tony Stark, rebel pilot was obnoxious. Finn looked like a guy desperately trying to remember his lines while Rey was the most ridiculous character in the whole franchise, and I remember those insane Boba Fett EU stories where he was basically the baddest man alive. I didn't mind Kylo Ren as much as the heroes, but they cut his balls off early and then kept cutting throughout the movie.

From the look of things, Kylo is going bad ass in TLJ, with more focus seemingly on his raw potential and power.

As for the other three, Poe was the most annoying for me, Finn I didn't mind and Rey I didn't mind either but I can see were you're coming from.

One thing to remember aswell though is it's star wars, it's a brand new trilogy and there's a lot of pressure on any actor coming into it, so with that in mind, they did well IMO.

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Re: Star Wars: Rogue One / Rebels / The Last Jedi / Han Solo
« Reply #677 on: October 12, 2017, 02:22:15 pm »
From the look of things, Kylo is going bad ass in TLJ, with more focus seemingly on his raw potential and power.

As for the other three, Poe was the most annoying for me, Finn I didn't mind and Rey I didn't mind either but I can see were you're coming from.

One thing to remember aswell though is it's star wars, it's a brand new trilogy and there's a lot of pressure on any actor coming into it, so with that in mind, they did well IMO.

Yeah I'm optimistic about Ren in this movie, if this is an ESB retread he should be as badass as they can possibly make him.

At least Rey will have been trained too.
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Re: Star Wars: Rogue One / Rebels / The Last Jedi / Han Solo
« Reply #678 on: October 12, 2017, 03:18:32 pm »
Rogue One is a interesting one. I keep hearing people say it was the least safe because [spoilers] everyone dies at the end. Aye, OK, in any other circumstance, if it was the first of a series, then yeah, that's a huge risk. However...once again, it didn't matter what kind of story arch they put in there - and let's be fair about this, it was a completely pointless story to begin with, because unless you'd never heard of Star Wars before, we all knew what their goal was, and what happened in the end. The film itself was as safe as houses. It was a sure thing to rake it in. Why? Nostalgia. That's it. That's all there was too it, folks. Slap in a couple of shots of a Star Destroyer, the building of the Death Star, erm...some AT-AT's and surprise everyone by unnecessarily bringing back Peter Cushing as Grand Moff Tarkin. I went to see it with a mate, and the two of us burst out laughing after the first couple of seconds he was on screen. They might as well have shoved a Spitting Image puppet of him in there. In saying that, ironically, that was the only good moment of levity the film offered, as every other character might as well have been a puppet. It was just that dull and monotone.

I won't say the film was a total dud, though. It had arguably the best looking visuals of any Star Wars film. I did appreciate the different tone of it, and what they were trying to do, but at the end of the day, it's Star Wars, and Star Wars is about fantasy. Not trying to reenact the battle of Guadalcanal. I remember Star Wars as a kid to have a little bit more fun, a bit more sass (all about those characters, isn't it?), and a bit more clever. The most memorable scenes of the originals, arguably, weren't its action scenes. They were the slower world building bits in between like Han flying into the asteroid only to realise they were in the mouth of a giant worm. The garbage compactor on the Death Star. The bar scene in Mos Eisley. Luke's run in with the Sand People and so on. I just think Rogue One got Star Wars wrong. But at least it had Darth Vader get his light sabre out.

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Re: Star Wars: Rogue One / Rebels / The Last Jedi / Han Solo
« Reply #679 on: October 12, 2017, 05:12:09 pm »
Like the look of the trailer so fingers crossed it will exceed the last one which was a little flat but hey better than the shyte Lucas came out with 1 - 3. I don't think Disney will worry too much about what I / we think as with a worldwide box return of 2 billion plus ungodly riches via merchandise they are running to the bank with this reboot of Star Wars.
I have a simple philosophy: Fill what's empty. Empty what's full. Scratch where it itches. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi5-V75v-6I