Topic: Space exploration thread - Unexpected Rapid Disassembly in the launch area.

[Trada]

The 2nd picture must be up there with one of the best ever taken of a planet.

[Red Beret]

I really hope the colour imager was working at the same time.  To see a colour image of this region will be absolutely mind blowing.

The NH website has images revealing nitrogen FOG.  FOG.  OF NITROGEN.

[Banquo's Ghost]

The new images are utterly beautiful. Those mountains have an austere grandeur that is quite breathtaking.

[Mr Mingebag Squid]

Have they released any details about the size of those "mountains"?

[CornerFlag]

Still think there should be a reclassification for planets:

Type 1) Gaseous giants with regular spherical shapes and regular orbits
Type 2) Rock-based terrestrial bodies with regular spherical shapes and regular orbits
Type 3) Rock-based non-terrestrial bodies with regular spherical shapes and regular orbits

It just seems convenient that Earth is only kept as a planet (with the gas giants) because of its life when it has more in common with type 3's than type 1's.

Also, those Plutonian images... astonishing.  Not seen anything as beautiful since I first saw Voyager 2's images of Neptune.

[Red Beret]

In this extended color image of Pluto taken by NASA's New Horizons spacecraft, rounded and bizarrely textured mountains, informally named the Tartarus Dorsa, rise up along Pluto's day-night terminator and show intricate but puzzling patterns of blue-gray ridges and reddish material in between. This view, roughly 330 miles (530 kilometers) across, combines blue, red and infrared images taken by the Ralph/Multispectral Visual Imaging Camera (MVIC) on July 14, 2015, and resolves details and colors on scales as small as 0.8 miles (1.3 kilometers).

Seriously, Pluto is weird.  I don't think there's another world viewed in the solar system that is analogous.

[Red Beret]

In terms of atmosphere, well we've seen the images that clearly show Pluto's is alive and well, although extremely tenuous.  As the planet drifts away from the sun the atmosphere will literally freeze onto the surface.  In doing so it could well act like a global glacier, carving out the formations we are seeing, similar to glacial valleys on Earth.

Some of the terrain will be a result of solar radiation perhaps; volatiles like nitrogen boiling away, leaving more rugged water ice behind.

There could also be internal processes at work; perhaps a water-amonia ice "mantle" that causes the crust to deform and form multiple ridges.

In terms of what we're seeing in the image, I'd say erosion due to the atmosphere freezing and sublimating over the course of thousands of years.  Each process eating into the surface and taking chunks from it. 

The colours suggest it is a different compound to the surrounding area.  It could be a relatively thin deposit of, say methane, that's been worn away over geologic time frames.  Or it has been deposited after the terrain has formed, as a thin veneer.

[Red Beret]

In other news, a HST "flyover" of a supernova remnant has been published;

http://hubblesite.org/newscenter/archive/releases/2015/29/video/a/

Also, NASA a set to announce a "major scientific finding" about Mars on September 28.

[Stevie-A]

Also, NASA a set to announce a "major scientific finding" about Mars on September 28.

I'm always fascinated by these conferences. Whilst knowing they will be somewhat procedural in nature, I do occasionally wish a member of the panel would go rogue and say something mad  Some interesting speculation as to what the 'finding' is, but best wait and see.

[Red Beret]

Well the rumour mill has that it's water-related, but although it would indeed be a major finding I imagine the circumstances have to be quite specific, so whilst scientifically significant on a practical level I wont regard it as a game changer.

[farawayred]

Interesting... I've been away to Paris for a month, struggling to help with the next Mars mission, and I haven't heard any rumors.

On another note, InSight was a Ted away from being cancelled, but it's now back on track; we will fix it on Monday. Cross fingers! It will measure earthquakes on Mars.

[KERRYKOP]

What are the chances of finding anything cool like some form of giant insect, or will the discoveries be limited to tiny bugs not a whole lot different from what we got here?

[Ray K]

Seasonal flowing surface water on Mars.

Mars 1-0 California

[.adam]

What are the chances of finding anything cool like some form of giant insect, or will the discoveries be limited to tiny bugs not a whole lot different from what we got here?

Most likely to be microbes of some description. Apparently there is a similar seasonal flow in a desert somewhere and it's the only place in that desert that can sustain life (albeit in microbe form).

[Red Beret]

It could be argued that this briny water is as sterile as the Dead Sea, given the circumstances needed for it to liquefy are quite specific.  Still, I imagine many scientists will be now looking for a way to despatch a rover to this area.

[RedSince86]

[farawayred]

Mars 1-0 California

Tell me about it... I think I'm gonna be fined for flushing my toilet...

Heading up the mountains this October and I hope I get stuck in snow, I really do.

[farawayred]

It could be argued that this briny water is as sterile as the Dead Sea, given the circumstances needed for it to liquefy are quite specific.  Still, I imagine many scientists will be now looking for a way to despatch a rover to this area.

Yet the next mission, Mars2020, is way off of that... Isn't it better to get science results before we set up sail on the next ship? One would think...

But Mars2020 is crazier than that. So, there will be a rover that roves around and makes core drill samples, which are carefully placed in a container (tube), then even more carefully thrown on the ground. Another rover x years from now comes in and collects the relevant samples. Then it sets a launchpad that shoots the relevant samples in orbit. An orbiting vehicle comes and rendezvous with the sample container, picks it up, decontaminates it, explosively seals it and takes of to... Earth? No. The Lagrangian point. Then anothe vehicle comes off and collects that samples from there and brings them to Earth.

You think that's science fiction? No. That the NASA Mars program as it stands at this time.

[Red Beret]

Yet the next mission, Mars2020, is way off of that... Isn't it better to get science results before we set up sail on the next ship? One would think...

But Mars2020 is crazier than that. So, there will be a rover that roves around and makes core drill samples, which are carefully placed in a container (tube), then even more carefully thrown on the ground. Another rover x years from now comes in and collects the relevant samples. Then it sets a launchpad that shoots the relevant samples in orbit. An orbiting vehicle comes and rendezvous with the sample container, picks it up, decontaminates it, explosively seals it and takes of to... Earth? No. The Lagrangian point. Then anothe vehicle comes off and collects that samples from there and brings them to Earth.

You think that's science fiction? No. That the NASA Mars program as it stands at this time.

That sounds rather convoluted - and also expensive?  I remember around the turn of the century (yipes!) and NASA people were talking about building up to a sample-return mission around 2020-25, stating "there's parts of that mission we don't know how to do yet."  Sounds a little bit like they still have figured those parts out, but this arbitrary date is looming over them so they're just cutting corners to fit the mission within existing technology.

It's a pity the ESA rover could investigate this region, but it's too far down the line to change the landing site.

[farawayred]

That sounds rather convoluted - and also expensive?  I remember around the turn of the century (yipes!) and NASA people were talking about building up to a sample-return mission around 2020-25, stating "there's parts of that mission we don't know how to do yet."  Sounds a little bit like they still have figured those parts out, but this arbitrary date is looming over them so they're just cutting corners to fit the mission within existing technology.

It's a pity the ESA rover could investigate this region, but it's too far down the line to change the landing site.

Yeah, it's crazy... And how many missions will take to do a sample return?!

Your sense is right. There are some technology aspects we haven't figured out yet, but there are solutions in sight; I think they are doable and Mars2020 would be fine. But why not collect the samples in one place?! They are worried about having "all eggs in one basket", but they will be in one basket no matter what when they are launched in orbit. There is also a consideration about which samples are more important to take home, which are not, but then why drill places that are not that important (other than risking mission end). There are a lot of things to consider, really. 

[farawayred]

Take that with a grain of salt.

[Red Beret]

Yeah, it's crazy... And how many missions will take to do a sample return?!

Your sense is right. There are some technology aspects we haven't figured out yet, but there are solutions in sight; I think they are doable and Mars2020 would be fine. But why not collect the samples in one place?! They are worried about having "all eggs in one basket", but they will be in one basket no matter what when they are launched in orbit. There is also a consideration about which samples are more important to take home, which are not, but then why drill places that are not that important (other than risking mission end). There are a lot of things to consider, really.

Well given the speed of your average rover, I'm thinking you'd need several years to drill a sufficient number of cores, but at least if you get that aspect of the mission underway the cores will be waiting.  But it seems an expensive use of a rover; presumably it will only to be able to carry so many core tubes, and they don't want a central "base" that the rover has to keep driving back to in order to collect more tubes?  Which means later on the recover rover has to follow the exact same route to collect the cores - which means minimal science activity by that rover itself?  At least until it gets the cores collected and packaged?

And how big will these cores be?  I'd think a minimum of 30 cm would be in order?  And presumably you'd want to get into places where erosion has revealed deeper structures?

[farawayred]

The concept is still being argued, and it will probably change. The next rover though might be 3-4 times faster. The reason this one is slow is because of the issue with the wheel degradation (too thin skin). That has prevented us from using auto navigation and we spent a lot of time in one place, a lot of time driving 20m a day. With autonav that can be 200m a day easy. This problem has been resolved so the next river should be "fast". But why would we send a second rover in the footsteps of the first?...

The cores are about 1cm in diameter and 10 cm long. We can get to different layers as we plan now - going up Mt. Sharp, but I don't know, I'm not a geologist.

[Red Beret]

Well if you send a rover to drill and package cores then the rover either has to carry the cores with it, or as you said, leave them on the Martian surface for later recovery.  That means the collecting rover has to follow the same route as the first rover. 

It would seem much more sensible to me that the first rover goes back and picks up the cores and stacks them all in one convenient spot for later collection.

[farawayred]

Or never leaves them on the ground, puts them in a package and shoots them up in orbit. And if that fails, you build a second rover that does the same, but you learn from the mistakes and make it better.  There needs to be a second rover anyway, right? That's how I'd do it, but I don't design missions (only trying instruments ). There is a reason the Russian Venus program was successful - after Venera 3, the landers were all the same, only payload was different.

So yeah, I agree with you on the general trend. Madness...

[Red Beret]

Or never leaves them on the ground, puts them in a package and shoots them up in orbit. And if that fails, you build a second rover that does the same, but you learn from the mistakes and make it better.  There needs to be a second rover anyway, right? That's how I'd do it, but I don't design missions (only trying instruments ). There is a reason the Russian Venus program was successful - after Venera 3, the landers were all the same, only payload was different.

So yeah, I agree with you on the general trend. Madness...

Well it can't lug them around like a Big Trak with its Cart as it would only slow it down!

[farawayred]

Well it can't lug them around like a Big Trak with its Cart as it would only slow it down!

Ha! The whole container is smaller than handball ball. But now I can't get this mental image off my head - a pickup truck size rover pulling a child's dolly... . Cool!

[Red Beret]

I'm thinking of a Mars rover that looks like this now!

[Red Beret]

An 8,000 pixel image of Pluto.  Just linking to it so it doesn't overload the forum lol

http://planetary.s3.amazonaws.com/assets/images/9-small-bodies/2015/20150924_crop_p_color2_enhanced_release.png

[Red Beret]

Charon:

[Twelfth Man]

One giant glimpse into the Apollo missions: Nasa releases almost 10,000 stunning never-before-seen images to Flickr

https://www.flickr.com/photos/projectapolloarchive/albums

[farawayred]

One giant glimpse into the Apollo missions: Nasa releases almost 10,000 stunning never-before-seen images to Flickr

https://www.flickr.com/photos/projectapolloarchive/albums

The studio lighting in those is just astonishing!   

Thanks for posting these, mate! these are some amazing pictures! I recently read a few things about the high resolution film from the first moon landing and I don't know if it had been found... It turned out that NASA was receiving a hi-res video, but the bandwidth was not enough to broadcast it over TV to the whole world. So they projected it on a white wall and a regular TV camera was imaging the image, and that's what everyone saw. All our memories from the first moon landing is a piss-poor copy of the real thing...

[farawayred]

BTW (Re: Mars), I expect that in the next couple of weeks NASA will make another big announcement, this time on organics. They are still vetting the results, but from what I know, I'm convinced they got it right.

[Twelfth Man]

End of the world plan: scientists to nudge asteroid off course as practice for protecting the Earth




Scientists are to send two spacecraft to knock an asteroid off course, as part of a practice for what they would do if a rock was threatening the future of humanity.

The joint US-European Aida (Asteroid Impact & Deflection Assessment) mission will send a small spacecraft to crash into the egg-shaped rock, known as Didymoon. That asteroid doesn’t pose any threat to us — and is far too small to do so — but the mission will be important test for whether our plans would work if we do eventually come at risk of civilisation being wiped out by a space rock.

The missions are set to be launched in October 2020. They are expected to reach Didymoon by May 2022.


Nasa will send one craft in a mission known as Double Asteroid Redirection Test (Dart) mission. It will fire a probe to smack into the rock and see if it can throw it off course.

As well as the nudging probe, scientists will send another spacecraft — the European Space Agency’s Asteroid Impact Mission (Aim). That will fly around Didymoon watching for the effect of the Dart mission, as well as measuring the asteroid’s mass and density and putting a small lander on the asteroid itself to look at its insides.

"To protect Earth from potentially hazardous impacts, we need to understand asteroids much better - what they are made of, their structure, origins and how they respond to collisions,” said Dr Patrick Michel, lead investigator for the European Space Agency half of the mission.

"Aida will be the first mission to study an asteroid binary system, as well as the first to test whether we can deflect an asteroid through an impact with a spacecraft. The European part of the mission... will study the structure of Didymoon and the orbit and rotation of the binary system, providing clues to its origin and evolution.

"Asteroids represent different stages in the rocky road to planetary formation, so offer fascinating snapshots into the solar system's history."

The closest that Didymoon has got to Earth in recent times was in 2003, when it came as near as 4.46 million miles away.

[outlaw_nas]

A good chance of viewing an aurora tonight

[Red Beret]

http://www.spaceweatherlive.com/en/auroral-activity/auroral-oval

[Barneylfc∗]

Announcement about Pluto today?

[Red Beret]

Pluto has a blue sky. 

[Twelfth Man]

In the Center of the Trifid Nebula
Image Credit: Subaru Telescope (NAOJ), Hubble Space Telescope, Martin Pugh; Processing: Robert Gendler

Explanation: Clouds of glowing gas mingle with dust lanes in the Trifid Nebula, a star forming region toward the constellation of the Archer (Sagittarius). In the center, the three prominent dust lanes that give the Trifid its name all come together. Mountains of opaque dust appear on the right, while other dark filaments of dust are visible threaded throughout the nebula. A single massive star visible near the center causes much of the Trifid's glow. The Trifid, also known as M20, is only about 300,000 years old, making it among the youngest emission nebulae known. The nebula lies about 9,000 light years away and the part pictured here spans about 10 light years. The above image is a composite with luminance taken from an image by the 8.2-m ground-based Subaru Telescope, detail provided by the 2.4-m orbiting Hubble Space Telescope, color data provided by Martin Pugh and image assembly and processing provided by Robert Gendler.

[farawayred]

"Mysterious ripples discovered around nearby star"

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-34475058?SThisFB