Author Topic: Space exploration thread - Unexpected Rapid Disassembly in the launch area.  (Read 317986 times)

Offline Zeb

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1480 on: October 14, 2015, 02:24:11 pm »
Eddies in the space time continuum.
Is he?

(Sorry).
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Offline Red Beret

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1481 on: October 15, 2015, 08:37:51 am »
The Most Mysterious Star in Our Galaxy

In the Northern hemisphere’s sky, hovering above the Milky Way, there are two constellations—Cygnus the swan, her wings outstretched in full flight, and Lyra, the harp that accompanied poetry in ancient Greece, from which we take our word “lyric.”

Between these constellations sits an unusual star, invisible to the naked eye, but visible to the Kepler Space Telescope, which stared at it for more than four years, beginning in 2009.

“We’d never seen anything like this star,” says Tabetha Boyajian, a postdoc at Yale. “It was really weird. We thought it might be bad data or movement on the spacecraft, but everything checked out.”

Kepler was looking for tiny dips in the light emitted by this star. Indeed, it was looking for these dips in more than 150,000 stars, simultaneously, because these dips are often shadows cast by transiting planets. Especially when they repeat, periodically, as you’d expect if they were caused by orbiting objects.

The Kepler Space Telescope collected a great deal of light from all of those stars it watched. So much light that Kepler’s science team couldn’t process it all with algorithms. They needed the human eye, and human cognition, which remains unsurpassed in certain sorts of pattern recognition. Kepler’s astronomers decided to found Planet Hunters, a program that asked “citizen scientists” to examine light patterns emitted by the stars, from the comfort of their own homes.

In 2011, several citizen scientists flagged one particular star as “interesting” and “bizarre.” The star was emitting a light pattern that looked stranger than any of the others Kepler was watching.

The light pattern suggests there is a big mess of matter circling the star, in tight formation. That would be expected if the star were young. When our solar system first formed, four and a half billion years ago, a messy disk of dust and debris surrounded the sun, before gravity organized it into planets, and rings of rock and ice.

But this unusual star isn’t young. If it were young, it would be surrounded by dust that would give off extra infrared light. There doesn’t seem to be an excess of infrared light around this star.

It appears to be mature. 

And yet, there is this mess of objects circling it. A mess big enough to block a substantial number of photons that would have otherwise beamed into the tube of the Kepler Space Telescope. If blind nature deposited this mess around the star, it must have done so recently. Otherwise, it would be gone by now. Gravity would have consolidated it, or it would have been sucked into the star and swallowed, after a brief fiery splash.

Boyajian, the Yale Postdoc who oversees Planet Hunters, recently published a paper describing the star’s bizarre light pattern. Several of the citizen scientists are named as co-authors. The paper explores a number of scenarios that might explain the pattern—instrument defects; the shrapnel from an asteroid belt pileup; an impact of planetary scale, like the one that created our moon.

The paper finds each explanation wanting, save for one. If another star had passed through the unusual star’s system, it could have yanked a sea of comets inward. Provided there were enough of them, the comets could have made the dimming pattern.

But that would be an extraordinary coincidence, if that happened so recently, only a few millennia before humans developed the tech to loft a telescope into space. That’s a narrow band of time, cosmically speaking.

And yet, the explanation has to be rare or coincidental. After all, this light pattern doesn’t show up anywhere else, across 150,000 stars. We know that something strange is going on out there.

When I spoke to Boyajian on the phone, she explained that her recent paper only reviews “natural” scenarios. “But,” she said, there were “other scenarios” she was considering.

Jason Wright, an astronomer from Penn State University, is set to publish an alternative interpretation of the light pattern. SETI researchers have long suggested that we might be able to detect distant extraterrestrial civilizations, by looking for enormous technological artifacts orbiting other stars. Wright and his co-authors say the unusual star’s light pattern is consistent with a “swarm of megastructures,” perhaps stellar-light collectors, technology designed to catch energy from the star.

“When [Boyajian] showed me the data, I was fascinated by how crazy it looked,” Wright told me. “Aliens should always be the very last hypothesis you consider, but this looked like something you would expect an alien civilization to build.”

Boyajian is now working with Wright and Andrew Siemion, the Director of the SETI Research Center at the University of California, Berkeley. The three of them are writing up a proposal. They want to point a massive radio dish at the unusual star, to see if it emits radio waves at frequencies associated with technological activity.

If they see a sizable amount of radio waves, they’ll follow up with the Very Large Array (VLA) in New Mexico, which may be able to say whether the radio waves were emitted by a technological source, like those that waft out into the universe from Earth’s network of radio stations.

Assuming all goes well, the first observation would take place in January, with the follow-up coming next fall. If things go really well, the follow-up could happen sooner. “If we saw something exciting, we could ask the director for special allotted time on the VLA,” Wright told me. “And in that case, we’d be asking to go on right away.”

In the meantime, Boyajian, Siemion, Wright, the citizen scientists, and the rest of us, will have to content ourselves with longing looks at the sky, aimed between the swan and the lyre, where maybe, just maybe, someone is looking back, and seeing the sun dim ever so slightly, every 365 days.

http://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2015/10/the-most-interesting-star-in-our-galaxy/410023/?utm_source=SFFB


It couldn't be... could it...?


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Offline Mr Mingebag Squid

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1482 on: October 15, 2015, 12:34:58 pm »
What is it they're theorising? Alien life?
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Offline Red Beret

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1483 on: October 15, 2015, 12:53:46 pm »
What they are saying is that there is a large mass of objects orbiting the star in a tight formation; a collection of objects that are not easily explained by current knowledge of natural star system formation.  Therefore a possible reason may be large artificial objects that are the result of alien intelligence.

Basically they need more data to refine a hypothesis.
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Offline Mr Mingebag Squid

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1484 on: October 16, 2015, 09:33:05 am »
Wow! So January will be when they get to point the microwave dish and hopefully find out....
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Offline Stevie-A

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1485 on: October 16, 2015, 10:31:06 am »
Irrespective of whether this is proposed to be of natural origin or a 'Dyson sphere', it reaffirms just how ace space science actually is!

Offline WillG.LFC

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1486 on: October 16, 2015, 11:21:22 am »
Reckon its a viral ad for independence day 2 :D

Offline Mr Mingebag Squid

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1487 on: October 16, 2015, 01:51:36 pm »
Reckon its a viral ad for independence day 2 :D

:D
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Offline Red Beret

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1488 on: October 16, 2015, 02:11:49 pm »
Oddly, the article doesn't give the name of the star in question, or how far away it is.  Anything over 150 light years and they wont know jack shit about us because of the lack of radio signals.
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Offline FiSh77

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1489 on: October 16, 2015, 02:52:47 pm »
Oddly, the article doesn't give the name of the star in question, or how far away it is.  Anything over 150 light years and they wont know jack shit about us because of the lack of radio signals.

the star is KIC 8462852 and is nearly 1500 light years away, which also brings up the possibility that if it is alien life they could be extinct by now, or they might be nomads and their dyson sphere thingymajig has sucked the star up and they've moved on ;)

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1490 on: October 16, 2015, 02:54:36 pm »
So are we seeing supposed structures that are 1500 years old if they are 1500 light years away?

Offline FiSh77

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1491 on: October 16, 2015, 03:02:34 pm »
yeah

Offline Red Beret

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1492 on: October 16, 2015, 03:15:45 pm »
So are we seeing supposed structures that are 1500 years old if they are 1500 light years away?

We're seeing the structures as they were 1500 years ago.  We've no way of knowing how long they've been there, or indeed if they are still there.

I'm more inclined to think that there's been some kind of catastrophic disruption in the star's inner solar system; I wonder where they stand on the theory of a gas giant migrating inwards?

Maybe we've found a real-life Magrathea, or a Death Star factory?  Or perhaps instead of a ringworld, it is several thousands large asteroids that have been linked together?
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Offline FiSh77

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1493 on: October 16, 2015, 03:37:30 pm »
We're seeing the structures as they were 1500 years ago.  We've no way of knowing how long they've been there, or indeed if they are still there.

I'm more inclined to think that there's been some kind of catastrophic disruption in the star's inner solar system; I wonder where they stand on the theory of a gas giant migrating inwards?

Maybe we've found a real-life Magrathea, or a Death Star factory?  Or perhaps instead of a ringworld, it is several thousands large asteroids that have been linked together?

i've read some more about it from sites giving a bit more info and they're saying it's something big, maybe half the width of the star itself, light drops have been up to 22% and have no set pattern time wise like an object orbiting the star, a jupiter sized planet would cause only a 1% drop



Offline Red Beret

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1494 on: October 16, 2015, 05:28:46 pm »
i've read some more about it from sites giving a bit more info and they're saying it's something big, maybe half the width of the star itself, light drops have been up to 22% and have no set pattern time wise like an object orbiting the star, a jupiter sized planet would cause only a 1% drop

So it's a large dip in brightness, but dip is irregular?  Does that imply several objects in different orbits or would they be able to resolve that into a regular pattern of dimming?  The alternative is a seriously fucking big object that is under power?  :o
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Offline WillG.LFC

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1495 on: October 16, 2015, 06:49:31 pm »
So whatever this is its long ago in a galaxy far far away?  ;)
« Last Edit: October 16, 2015, 07:07:09 pm by WillG.LFC »

Offline GregCharrua

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1496 on: October 16, 2015, 06:52:10 pm »
I will literally shit myself if it was actually something from an advanced civilization. I doubt it will be. But then I never thought Klopp would come to Liverpool, either.

Offline Red Beret

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1497 on: October 16, 2015, 07:29:59 pm »
So whatever this is its long ago in a galaxy far far away?  ;)

Nope, it's just far far away but in our own galaxy ;)

Seriously though, something that can dim a star by almost a quarter of its brightness - by natural law only another star should be that size, but no red or brown dwarf - which would be the usual suspects given their poor visual luminance - is large enough. 
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Offline WillG.LFC

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1498 on: October 16, 2015, 07:38:19 pm »
Could it be something nowhere near it yet between us and the star?

Offline Red Beret

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1499 on: October 16, 2015, 07:49:28 pm »
Could it be something nowhere near it yet between us and the star?

It has to be something relatively close to the star.  I'd be gobsmacked if it was some kind of interstellar cloud that was about 1,000 light years away and was cutting the light in and out at such a pace and nobody had cottoned onto  it.
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Offline WillG.LFC

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1500 on: October 16, 2015, 08:04:00 pm »
It has to be something relatively close to the star.  I'd be gobsmacked if it was some kind of interstellar cloud that was about 1,000 light years away and was cutting the light in and out at such a pace and nobody had cottoned onto  it.
More gobsmacked than it being alien related :D sure whatever it is it has a natural cause. Hope we get to find out more eventually

Offline vagabond

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1501 on: October 16, 2015, 08:11:40 pm »
I'm trying to not get too excited by this. It isn't working.
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Offline farawayred

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1502 on: October 19, 2015, 06:22:16 pm »
Could it be something nowhere near it yet between us and the star?
I've been away in the woods and I've only heard bits and pieces of the story, but it's really easy to distinguish between something closer and near the star. Whatever it is, it has to orbit periodically to produce the dimming effects. The closer it is to the star, the bigger the structure. The closer it is to us (farther from the star), the more gravity effect it will 'feel' from other massive objects and will have irregular orbiting pattern, and most likely unstable. We should have the sensitivity to determine that.
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Offline Red Beret

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1503 on: October 19, 2015, 06:38:19 pm »
...?
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Offline Twelfth Man

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1504 on: October 22, 2015, 09:41:14 am »
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/hints-life-thought-desolate-early-earth-34580331

Hints of Life on What Was Thought to Be Desolate Early Earth

Scientists have found fossil-like hints that some kind of life existed on Earth 4.1 billion years ago — when the planet was a mere volcanic toddler. That's 300 million years earlier for life to pop up than previously thought.

Not only does that change the way scientists thought Earth was like soon after it formed 4.5 billion years ago, but gives them reason to theorize that life itself is more plentiful throughout the universe because it seemed to start up so quickly.

Researchers examined tiny grains of the mineral zircon from western Australia's Jack Hills and chemically dated them to when Earth was barely 400 million years old. Inside one of the 160 some grains they found what they call a "chemo-fossil" or a certain mix of carbon isotopes, according to a study published Monday in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

Think of it as "the gooey remains of biotic life or anything more complicated," said study co-author Mark Harrison, a UCLA geochemistry professor.

There are different types of carbon with different weights. This carbon residue had a higher percentage of the lighter type of carbon, which is what scientists usually find in remnants of life, the same as if your finger decayed, Harrison said. There are rare cases where this particular carbon signature wouldn't be from life, but they are exceedingly unusual and only in certain situations.

Harrison theorizes that the carbon is from a colony of tiny organisms of some unknown type. Life existing 300 million years earlier than science thought is the most logical and simplest explanation, but "this is not smoking gun evidence," Harrison said.

The common thinking of early volcanic Earth is that it was too molten and there was not enough liquid water for life to take hold this early. But, Harrison said, there's no physical evidence for this theory. What the zircon shows is "the Earth by 4.1, 4.2 billion years ago was basically behaving like it is today."

"This is what transformative science is all about," said Stephen Mojzsis, a University of Colorado scientist who wasn't part of the research. "''If life is responsible for these signatures, it arrives fast and early."

S. Blair Hedges of Temple University, who also wasn't part of the study, said Harrison's findings makes sense and the accelerated timeline of life fits with his genetic tracking work.

"If life arose relatively quickly on Earth," Hedges wrote in an email, "then it could be common in the universe."
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Offline Red Beret

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1505 on: October 22, 2015, 11:15:08 am »
Think it is quite feasible that life could have taken hold, been completely wiped out, then started up again, given the Earth was such a molten chemical hotpot.
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Offline Red Beret

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1507 on: October 24, 2015, 02:45:03 am »
This website is the largest star field ever produced. You can zoom right in on it.

http://astro.vm.rub.de/


http://www.theguardian.com/science/across-the-universe/2015/oct/23/largest-astronomical-image-ever-made-shows-milky-ways-star-fields?CMP=fb_gu

Milky Way’s star fields shown in largest astronomical image ever made
The largest astronomical image ever made has been released by astronomers, together with an online tool to help you explore it.
A star field of the Milky Way
 Using the online web tool, members of the general public can explore the largest astronomical image ever made. Photograph: Ruhr-Universität Bochum (RUB)/Ruhr-Universität Bochum (RUB)
Stuart Clark
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Friday 23 October 2015 14.03 BST Last modified on Friday 23 October 2015 14.13 BST
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Lose yourself in the glorious star fields of the Milky Way. Astronomers at the Ruhr-Universität Bochum (RUB) have compiled the largest astronomical image ever made and released it to the general public.

The full image is a mosaic of 268 individual images. It is contained in a single data file of 194 Gigabytes. Made up of 46 billion pixels, it is so huge that the astronomers have provided an online tool to help view it.


Gaia space telescope launches on mission to map the Milky Way
 Read more
The tool allows users to navigate around, zoom in and out, and explore the depths of space. It takes a while to load the zoomed images even with a good broadband connection but the rewards are worth it. What appear like smudges at one scale resolve into jewel-box star clusters at the deeper level.

A text box shows the coordinates of the image on display but can also be used to show specific celestial objects. For example, type in ‘Eta Carinae’ to see the explosive aftermath of this unstable star, or the Messier catalogue number (listed here) of an object in the Milky Way to be taken straight there.

The image is the result of five years monitoring the night sky using the telescope at the university’s observatory in the Atacama Desert in Chile. The monitoring programme has allowed astronomer Moritz Hackstein and other researchers to discover 50,000 previously unknown variable celestial objects.

These variations could be the result of planets passing infant of stars or multiple star systems where stars obscure each other every now and then. They are now being studied up to understand their behaviour.

The Milky Way itself is the misty band of light that runs across the sky. It is visible from dark sites well away from street lights. In 1610, Galileo raised his newly built telescope to the sky and sparked an astronomical revolution by showing that the Milky Way was made of the combined light of many distant stars. Now you can do something similar by visiting the website and zooming in.

Stuart Clark’s latest book is The Unknown Universe (Head of Zeus).
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Offline Red Beret

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1508 on: October 31, 2015, 12:39:52 am »
Pluto's crescent.

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Offline farawayred

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1509 on: October 31, 2015, 09:09:47 am »
Unrelated to anything important I went out for cocktails with the wife last night and had a 'Large Hadron Colada' - had to really :D
You got to be really careful with those. You may discover the Higgs boson, which is responsible for your weight!... Or you may create a black hole that can swallow your wallet.

;D
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Offline Red Beret

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1510 on: November 4, 2015, 03:44:13 pm »
Every round object in the solar system smaller than Mars:



EDIT: Interesting to note that, whilst Ganymede and Titan are larger than the planet Mercury, the latter's gravity is stronger due to it's density.  In fact, Mercury has roughly the same gravity as the much larger Mars.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2015, 07:19:49 pm by Red Beret »
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Offline Red Beret

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1511 on: November 12, 2015, 07:18:12 pm »
Latest snippets I've picked up:

Mars' moon Phobos has long been known to have a "ripple" texture on it's surface.  This was initially thought to be due to shock waves of an ancient impact, but scientists are now saying it is the effect of Mars itself.  Phobos is spiralling into Mars and is one day expected to break apart and impact on the surface; the ripple effects are believed to be tidal as Phobos descends closer to Mars' surface at the rate of six feet per century.

Also, the New Horizons' team has identified several mountains on Pluto as possible cryo-volcanoes.  The potential geologic activity on the small planet is proving quite unexpected for such a tiny world, I'm guessing because it's so distant from the sun, and lacks the gravitational influence of a gas giant to heat the interior (like Jupiter's moon Io).
I don't always visit Lobster Pot.  But when I do. I sit.

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Offline Mr Mingebag Squid

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1512 on: November 13, 2015, 08:38:32 am »
 :thumbup
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Offline farawayred

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1513 on: November 16, 2015, 05:06:33 am »
The Most Mysterious Star in Our Galaxy

--- snip ---

It couldn't be... could it...?




Just came across this article that rebuffs such claims; there maybe better ones out there, but are naturally getting lost as they don't provide the required sensationalism... ;)

Alien megastructure: Dimming of nearby star 'more likely to be natural than artificial'
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/alien-megastructure-dimming-of-nearby-star-more-likely-to-be-natural-than-artificial-a6724306.html
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Offline Mr Mingebag Squid

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1514 on: November 16, 2015, 12:47:53 pm »
With it being so far away, how will they ever know for sure what it is?
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Offline kennedy81

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1515 on: November 16, 2015, 04:25:57 pm »
Just came across this article that rebuffs such claims; there maybe better ones out there, but are naturally getting lost as they don't provide the required sensationalism... ;)

Alien megastructure: Dimming of nearby star 'more likely to be natural than artificial'
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/alien-megastructure-dimming-of-nearby-star-more-likely-to-be-natural-than-artificial-a6724306.html
Doesn't it only rule out 'the presence of aliens who are either trying to communicate across space or who may be using spacecraft powered by intense microwave beams'?

Maybe they're not trying to communicate or use spacecraft powered by intense microwave beams? Also, if the structures are really old, maybe they're just derelict and deserted?

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1516 on: November 16, 2015, 06:09:51 pm »
Doesn't it only rule out 'the presence of aliens who are either trying to communicate across space or who may be using spacecraft powered by intense microwave beams'?

Maybe they're not trying to communicate or use spacecraft powered by intense microwave beams? Also, if the structures are really old, maybe they're just derelict and deserted?

yeah it only rules out whatever type of signals we're looking for, i think we'll never find out what it is simply because of the distance and if it is intelligent life how do we communicate with them? send them a message and leave a note for whoever's here in around 3000 years to check for a reply ;)



Offline farawayred

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1517 on: November 16, 2015, 06:42:56 pm »
Doesn't it only rule out 'the presence of aliens who are either trying to communicate across space or who may be using spacecraft powered by intense microwave beams'?

Maybe they're not trying to communicate or use spacecraft powered by intense microwave beams? Also, if the structures are really old, maybe they're just derelict and deserted?
Quiet aliens, eh? I'd marry one if that's the case.  :)

You are right, of coarse. It comes to belief and imagination, and imagination is infinite. From my experience, I find that nature throws a lot of curve balls, and what we think is impossible or irrational, often has a very logical explanation. This is how we expand our knowledge - we test it through experiments and if it doesn't work we come up with new consistent theories, until they are rebuffed later on.

I was just pointing to the difference in reporting a sensational news based on imaginative speculation versus a news based on a far more trivial fact. The former has far more visibility as it sells well.
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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1518 on: November 24, 2015, 07:01:31 pm »
For good or bad, spaceflight may be turning commercial.

NASA orders first crewed mission from SpaceX to the International Space Station
http://www.theverge.com/2015/11/20/9772564/spacex-iss-nasa-astronaut-crewed-mission-announced
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Offline farawayred

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1519 on: November 26, 2015, 06:32:30 am »
A bit more news on the peculiar star KIC 8462852:

NASA says space anomaly likely caused by comets
http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/25/us/nasa-space-anomaly-comets/index.html
Cruyff: "Victory is not enough, there also needs to be beautiful football."