Topic: Jay Spearing- Better Late than Never

[shafticus]

Out of interest, if we go in for Charlie Adam in the summer (as seems fairly likely) and Blackpool say they'll only sell him if we give them Spearing in part-exchange, what would you want to do?

I'd go for Adam personally.

There's no question about it.  Nothing personal against Jay, and I'm sure he'll carve out a good career for himself somewhere, but we need better and more diverse options in central midfield.

[Suspect Package.]

I do wonder how much we would be seeing of him if Jonjo Shelvey hadn't got injured.

I see a lot of parallels between Spearing and Danny Guthrie.

[exiledinyorkshire]

Out of interest, if we go in for Charlie Adam in the summer (as seems fairly likely) and Blackpool say they'll only sell him if we give them Spearing in part-exchange, what would you want to do?

I'd go for Adam personally.

Yeah i think you would take adam all day long. He has a superior passing range to anything we have at the minute.

And this is the whole point, i dont think many on here are being as precious about Spearing as the Lucas brigade would like to think.

The real question is would you swap Lucas for Adam, once again i would. And i already know that they arent the same type of player, apples and pears and all that, however i would rather have charlie adam here than Lucas. I think though that lucas would be a straight swap rather than part of a deal.

There you go get your teeth into that one. Whooooooo hooooooo, its gonna get choppy!

[leivapool]

Yeah i think you would take adam all day long. He has a superior passing range to anything we have at the minute.

And this is the whole point, i dont think many on here are being as precious about Spearing as the Lucas brigade would like to think.

The real question is would you swap Lucas for Adam, once again i would. And i already know that they arent the same type of player, apples and pears and all that, however i would rather have charlie adam here than Lucas. I think though that lucas would be a straight swap rather than part of a deal.

There you go get your teeth into that one. Whooooooo hooooooo, its gonna get choppy!

Without a Lucas style player we would get raped in the middle of the park.  I don't think people are precious over Lucas, I think  there are now a significant number of fans who genuinely appreciate what he does for the team, and understand how good he is at his role.  The fact that you can't see that is unfortunate.  Without Lucas in the team, Charlie Adam would never get the ball.  And I would bet my house that Lucas would never go to Blackpool.  Jay would fit perfectly though 

[exiledinyorkshire]

Without a Lucas style player we would get raped in the middle of the park.  I don't think people are precious over Lucas, I think  there are now a significant number of fans who genuinely appreciate what he does for the team, and understand how good he is at his role.  The fact that you can't see that is unfortunate.  Without Lucas in the team, Charlie Adam would never get the ball.  And I would bet my house that Lucas would never go to Blackpool.  Jay would fit perfectly though 

Now that is a perfectly rational non rabid post, apart from the fact that you have seen in my post what you wanted to see.

Firstly, re-read what i said. I did not at any point suggest anybody was being precious about Lucas. Never said it, so you are rebuffing an accusation that never occured.

And secondly, i at no point suggested that Liverpool shouldnt have somebody doing the lucas role,i merely siad i would swap Lucas for Adam. With Lucas gone we would then need to buy a more combative midfielder, and i feel we could possibly get a better one than lucas. Granted we would have to pay a fair bit, but thats the nature of upgrades they tend to cost.

[exiledinyorkshire]

and i think you are spot on about jay fitting perfectly at Blackpoolm as well, he would do well ther i am sure. I dont however see that as an insult to him. Good little progressive passing moving side Blackpool are.

[Lark]

And secondly, i at no point suggested that Liverpool shouldnt have somebody doing the lucas role,i merely siad i would swap Lucas for Adam. With Lucas gone we would then need to buy a more combative midfielder, and i feel we could possibly get a better one than lucas. Granted we would have to pay a fair bit, but thats the nature of upgrades they tend to cost.

A swap would most likely mean that we're paying an overprice for Adam so I think we would be worse of. I do however agree that we're most likely going to bring in another DM as we need depth at both DM and CM and considernig that Poulsen is quite likely leaving us in the summer. I would prefer someone like Sissoko as he's a different type of DM compared to Lucas but also has the ability to play CM, perhaps even CAM with some practice.

If you do feel that we can get a better DM then Lucas, I'm sure you have someone in mind?

[macmanaman]

What a stupid discussion, there is no chance in hell that Lucas will go to Blackpool, he got a lot of offers from elsewhere.

And as for me there is no chance that I would swap Adam for Lucas either.

[exiledinyorkshire]

If you do feel that we can get a better DM then Lucas, I'm sure you have someone in mind?

Do You know what, i actually dont. I think to a certain extent we have been spoiled in that position for a few years. Mascherano was the ultimate for me. Sissoko wasnt bad either. Really dont watch that much football other than liverpool, not much in the prem to rave about, the new lad at Spurs looks a player is it Santana or something, De'jong is about as good as it gets, maybe we could pick one of the many diara's that seem to float about. Dont know is the answer.

I know that there is alot of talk about not needing somebody in the mould of makalele, that football has changed, and a hard tackling snappy little fucker is an historical throwback, but if we play with a 3 in the mid, then i think they all have to be technically adept, reasonably athletic, and i would have one who is an exceptional passer, one who is in the mould of Masch or makalele and a real box to boxer. That may make me sound like a simpleton that doesnt understand football, but thats what i would want.

If its a 2 man midfield than hte passer or the box to boxer goes to be replaced by somebody who can do both (gerrard perhaps) But in that situation you really need the tackler to help win the battle in there. So for me no matter how we set up next season i would like to see a real tough tackler in there (i dont want a one dimensional player you understand, i would like a Souness if you will or dare i say it a Keane).

[Sangria]

Do You know what, i actually dont. I think to a certain extent we have been spoiled in that position for a few years. Mascherano was the ultimate for me. Sissoko wasnt bad either. Really dont watch that much football other than liverpool, not much in the prem to rave about, the new lad at Spurs looks a player is it Santana or something, De'jong is about as good as it gets, maybe we could pick one of the many diara's that seem to float about. Dont know is the answer.

I know that there is alot of talk about not needing somebody in the mould of makalele, that football has changed, and a hard tackling snappy little fucker is an historical throwback, but if we play with a 3 in the mid, then i think they all have to be technically adept, reasonably athletic, and i would have one who is an exceptional passer, one who is in the mould of Masch or makalele and a real box to boxer. That may make me sound like a simpleton that doesnt understand football, but thats what i would want.

If its a 2 man midfield than hte passer or the box to boxer goes to be replaced by somebody who can do both (gerrard perhaps) But in that situation you really need the tackler to help win the battle in there. So for me no matter how we set up next season i would like to see a real tough tackler in there (i dont want a one dimensional player you understand, i would like a Souness if you will or dare i say it a Keane).

So basically anyone but Lucas. Oh, and Lucas is far better than De Jong. Just because someone is a legbreaker doesn't make him a good DM.

[mulfella]

Lucas has the highest number of tackles in the PL this season - 125.  Lad's been busy eh?

[Hightown Phil]

Yeah i think you would take adam all day long. He has a superior passing range to anything we have at the minute.

And this is the whole point, i dont think many on here are being as precious about Spearing as the Lucas brigade would like to think.

The real question is would you swap Lucas for Adam, once again i would. And i already know that they arent the same type of player, apples and pears and all that, however i would rather have charlie adam here than Lucas. I think though that lucas would be a straight swap rather than part of a deal.

There you go get your teeth into that one. Whooooooo hooooooo, its gonna get choppy!

I'll get my teeth in to it.

You haven't got a clue.

[Walshy nMe®]

I'd still take Lucas first then Shelvy and Adam over Spearing.  Tidy little player, but no more than 4th choice in my eyes for that central mid spot.

[exiledinyorkshire]

So basically anyone but Lucas. Oh, and Lucas is far better than De Jong. Just because someone is a legbreaker doesn't make him a good DM.

You see this is where its all about opinions. Its not anyone other than lucas at all. I dont think that any of the british lot are up to scratch in this department. This is not a Lucas bashing thing really it isnt, and you are all making yourselves look like school girls at a bros concert. I'm simply saying that for me i would rather in a midfield have a really agressive hard tackler. I'm not saying that lucas isnt any good, but i perhaps am saying that hes not quite good enough.


And De jong in my opinion is better than lucas. And note i have actually siad BETTER than in this instance.But its only an opinion, so save all you red roar foreheads the slapping and calm down a little bit.

And Phil, werent you the one saying that you wouldnt want Kenny to be perm manager if he kept Spearing. If it was you mate you need to have a serious think about how your brain works mate.

[Lark]

Do You know what, i actually dont. I think to a certain extent we have been spoiled in that position for a few years. Mascherano was the ultimate for me. Sissoko wasnt bad either. Really dont watch that much football other than liverpool, not much in the prem to rave about, the new lad at Spurs looks a player is it Santana or something, De'jong is about as good as it gets, maybe we could pick one of the many diara's that seem to float about. Dont know is the answer.

I know that there is alot of talk about not needing somebody in the mould of makalele, that football has changed, and a hard tackling snappy little fucker is an historical throwback, but if we play with a 3 in the mid, then i think they all have to be technically adept, reasonably athletic, and i would have one who is an exceptional passer, one who is in the mould of Masch or makalele and a real box to boxer. That may make me sound like a simpleton that doesnt understand football, but thats what i would want.

If its a 2 man midfield than hte passer or the box to boxer goes to be replaced by somebody who can do both (gerrard perhaps) But in that situation you really need the tackler to help win the battle in there. So for me no matter how we set up next season i would like to see a real tough tackler in there (i dont want a one dimensional player you understand, i would like a Souness if you will or dare i say it a Keane).

Fair enough.

I suppose you’re talking about Sandro. He’s still behind Lucas in the picking order in the national team and will most likely continue to be.

I do agree that we need another DM for squad depth and ideal would be a stronger and more hard hitting tackler to have another option. We need that for certain games during the season. I do however think it all comes down to how we envision us to play in the future. If we’re going to play pass and move I personally think Lucas is as good as they come but that’s just me.

I understand how you feel for Mascherano, a lot of supporters feel the same way. I too loved how he chased down players and won the ball. Still, he came with he’s drawbacks. Despite being a good DM, he was pretty poor in his defensive positioning considering his role. A bit one sided in his game as well. I prefer the Lucas type who has the ability to add something extra to the midfield dynamics on top of his defensive capabilities. The midfield becomes more dynamic and less dependent on certain players.

[filopastry]

You see this is where its all about opinions. Its not anyone other than lucas at all. I dont think that any of the british lot are up to scratch in this department. This is not a Lucas bashing thing really it isnt, and you are all making yourselves look like school girls at a bros concert. I'm simply saying that for me i would rather in a midfield have a really agressive hard tackler. I'm not saying that lucas isnt any good, but i perhaps am saying that hes not quite good enough.


And De jong in my opinion is better than lucas. And note i have actually siad BETTER than in this instance.But its only an opinion, so save all you red roar foreheads the slapping and calm down a little bit.

And Phil, werent you the one saying that you wouldnt want Kenny to be perm manager if he kept Spearing. If it was you mate you need to have a serious think about how your brain works mate.

Why would we care how hard and aggressive the DM is in the tackle, surely the main thing in terms of effectiveness is winning the tackle and retaining possession afterwards, something that judging from the stats Lucas does very well.

He might not be the showiest player in the world but who cares about that, his job tends to be unglamorouse and he's probably more unglamorous than most at it given he doesn't fly into tackles recklessly but as long as he wins them that's no bad thing.

[scatman]

wow Sandro has one good game against a failing Milan side and he's suddenly better than Lucas.

Lucas plays in a monumental win against an Inter side 2 years ago who were on the up yet he still gets booed at Anfield afterwards. Sort yourself fucking out.

[Hightown Phil]

And Phil, werent you the one saying that you wouldnt want Kenny to be perm manager if he kept Spearing. If it was you mate you need to have a serious think about how your brain works mate.

It was a joke. Fucking hell.

Your proposal of Lucas out Adam in.

If we lose the ball, how exactly are you proposing we get it back? Wait until we've been waltzed through and let the defence get it back?

[guest]

Is someone seriously asking for Adam to be our deepest lying midfielder?

Why do these people even bother with football?

[Mr Dilkington]

Is someone seriously asking for Adam to be our deepest lying midfielder?

Why do these people even bother with football?

Kenny i reckon. 

[guest]

Kenny i reckon. 

No chance Charlie Adam would be our deepest lying midfielder. He'd either have a Lucas or Mascherano type next to him.

[Chivasino]

Is someone seriously asking for Adam to be our deepest lying midfielder?

You do wonder at the logic of folk who want him to replace Lucas.

You assume they've watched him and that's why they want to see him in a red shirt. But if they've watched him, why do they want him protecting our defence?

[Mr Dilkington]

No chance Charlie Adam would be our deepest lying midfielder. He'd either have a Lucas or Mascherano type next to him.

Someone was suggesting putting him there by himself? If so, then you're right.

[Hightown Phil]

You do wonder at the logic of folk who want him to replace Lucas.

You assume they've watched him and that's why they want to see him in a red shirt. But if they've watched him, why do they want him protecting our defence?

With a lot of people, they just don't understand football.

I say we bring in Andrea Pirlo to sit in front of the back four.

[guest]

You do wonder at the logic of folk who want him to replace Lucas.

You assume they've watched him and that's why they want to see him in a red shirt. But if they've watched him, why do they want him protecting our defence?

Because:

1. They haven't seen him but watched him on Match of the Day; from those highlights, they see him scoring pretty goals and think he'd bring more goals than Lucas.
2. They don't understand football.
3. Lucas shagged their missus.
4. They're shagging Charlie Adam's missus.

[exiledinyorkshire]

Thats not what was said .............really not what was said. Read the post. It couldnt be clearer, i would swap adam for lucas, but am aware they are not similar or the same typ of player and know htis would me further additions, ie a DM.

STOP GETTING UPSET ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK IS BEING SAID.

This is actually quite scary in as much as respected posters like L6 are just lumping in when they arent eve sure of the context of a discussion. I thought better of you L6, but i see your tactics and i see you for what you really are.

By all means lets have a debate, but lets try to listen and understand what others are ACTUALLY saying. AS it happens i was being deliberately provocative anyway so it seems strange to try and hang me for something i didnt say, when it is possibel to counter argue my actual point. I suppose, if one were to at and respond to what was siad it would be more difficult to maintain the melodramatic outrage.Still chin up lads it may only turn out to be a debate on a football forum, and not a matter of life and death.

[guest]

This is actually quite scary in as much as respected posters like L6 are just lumping in when they arent eve sure of the context of a discussion. I thought better of you L6, but i see your tactics and i see you for what you really are.

What in the bobbins are you talking about?

And swapping Adam for Lucas insinuates you would replace one for the other. Apologies my understanding of the English language couldn't break through your warped sense of it.

And stop shouting, it's just the t'interweb, yo.

[Hightown Phil]

Stop talking bobbins then.

It's really very easy.

If you'd said you'd swap Adam for Meireles, there'd be no arguments. Which is in effect what you would be doing if you'd also be bringing in a defensive type player to play instead of Lucas?

[guest]

Let's all hug it out.

Apart from Jay Spearing.

He's shite.

[exiledinyorkshire]

Fair enough.

I suppose you’re talking about Sandro. He’s still behind Lucas in the picking order in the national team and will most likely continue to be.

I do agree that we need another DM for squad depth and ideal would be a stronger and more hard hitting tackler to have another option. We need that for certain games during the season. I do however think it all comes down to how we envision us to play in the future. If we’re going to play pass and move I personally think Lucas is as good as they come but that’s just me.

I understand how you feel for Mascherano, a lot of supporters feel the same way. I too loved how he chased down players and won the ball. Still, he came with he’s drawbacks. Despite being a good DM, he was pretty poor in his defensive positioning considering his role. A bit one sided in his game as well. I prefer the Lucas type who has the ability to add something extra to the midfield dynamics on top of his defensive capabilities. The midfield becomes more dynamic and less dependent on certain players.

Thanks for the post mate.

I utterly see and respect all the points you make, i dont agree with them entirely, although i think in a pass and move side Lucas has a lot more to offer than in the kind of set up we had under hodgson.
 It will be interesting to see actually just how good Lucas can become in a truly functioning attacking team, all of the omens for his progress are good when you consider how he naturally plays. Where i think he is limited, is in his speed of thought a little bit.Although the same was true of Alons for 18months and he turned it round and got better. He can dwell a bit too long for my liking, and i think his short game is perhaps hindered by the options he has a round him. Miereles makes life easier for him, as i think will Suarez and the lofted option of Carroll. All in all i rate lucas quite highly, just think he maybe one notch off a top four midfielder thats all. And his tackling is fine in certain circumstances, but he isnt dominating enough for me in that position.

I would also remind everyone that this was a Jay Spearing thread. I know i unwittingly nuked it with the "i think that Jay is as good as Lucas comment" but if its just going to turn into a for and against Lucas debate then there are other threads for that. My comment was meant to look towards the positive for Spearing, ie comparing him favourably to a good established Liverpool player, (not in type) in level of abilitly. Lets bring it back to munchkin chops shall we and leave lucas out of it from now on.

[exiledinyorkshire]

What in the bobbins are you talking about?

And swapping Adam for Lucas insinuates you would replace one for the other. Apologies my understanding of the English language couldn't break through your warped sense of it.

And stop shouting, it's just the t'interweb, yo.

Not if you clearly state that you dont see them as like for like players as i did. Bobbins indeed.

[guest]

Not if you clearly state that you dont see them as like for like players as i did. Bobbins indeed.

No, you're wrong, because you're still insinuating Lucas is replaced by Adam.

[Vidocq]

Without a Lucas style player we would get raped in the middle of the park.  I don't think people are precious over Lucas, I think  there are now a significant number of fans who genuinely appreciate what he does for the team, and understand how good he is at his role.  The fact that you can't see that is unfortunate.  Without Lucas in the team, Charlie Adam would never get the ball.  And I would bet my house that Lucas would never go to Blackpool.  Jay would fit perfectly though 

                   M'Vila
            Stevie    Adam

   

[exiledinyorkshire]

No, you're wrong, because you're still insinuating Lucas is replaced by Adam.

HA,ha ha ha ..........you really have lost it!

The question was, if you could get adams for Lucas would you? I would. Doesnt mean adams could only then be employed in lucas's roll.

If you could swap your lawn mower for a bbq, it woulnt mean you would have to mow the lawn with the bbq. Or would it in L6 world?

Ha ha ha ha ha !!!!!!!

Your actually very funny L6.

[Johnnyboy1973]

The question was, if you could get adams for Lucas would you?

No.

Then I would need a defensive midfielder and there are more glaring deficiencies in our first team and squad than the need to create a situation where I need to buy two central midfielders as well.

[Buzz Killington]

HA,ha ha ha ..........you really have lost it!

The question was, if you could get adams for Lucas would you? I would. Doesnt mean adams could only then be employed in lucas's roll.

If you could swap your lawn mower for a bbq, it woulnt mean you would have to mow the lawn with the bbq. Or would it in L6 world?

Ha ha ha ha ha !!!!!!!

Your actually very funny L6.

You're wrong. And who the hell is Adams?

[guest]

HA,ha ha ha ..........you really have lost it!

The question was, if you could get adams for Lucas would you? I would. Doesnt mean adams could only then be employed in lucas's roll.

If you could swap your lawn mower for a bbq, it woulnt mean you would have to mow the lawn with the bbq. Or would it in L6 world?

Ha ha ha ha ha !!!!!!!

Your actually very funny L6.

Who is Adams and why is he being put in a roll?

I might get a lawn mower for a BBQ and my garden might look amazing but I'd be hungry at the same time.

So we get Adams (sic) for Lucas. Then what?

[exiledinyorkshire]

Who is Adams and why is he being put in a roll?

I might get a lawn mower for a BBQ and my garden might look amazing but I'd be hungry at the same time.

So we get Adams (sic) for Lucas. Then what?

And now your picking me up on my spelling and gramma........the last refuge of the Internet nitwit.


Ha Ha Ha HA !!!!!

[Fordy]

If we sign Adam(Not Adams- who is Adams?) he will not be replacing Lucas.

Adam isn't an out and out DM player.

[guest]

And now your picking me up on my spelling and gramma........the last refuge of the Internet nitwit.


Ha Ha Ha HA !!!!!

An internet nitwit? I can assure you I'm not one of those. I'm a real person who sees real things.

I do apologise for wondering who Adams was (makes me think you've seen little of him) and making an off-the-cuff comment about a roll.

Now, answer the original question please?

I might get a lawn mower for a BBQ and my garden might look amazing but I'd be hungry at the same time.

So we get Adams (sic) for Lucas. Then what?