Topic: Lionel Messi

[The North Bank]

With Messi ronaldo lewa modric benzema all unlikely to make the next World Cup. There’s a serious shortage of talent around. Don’t think we ll ever see another Messi, but there aren’t even any players of a few levels below him coming through, Mbappe aside.

[Eternalsungod]

With Messi ronaldo lewa modric benzema all unlikely to make the next World Cup. There’s a serious shortage of talent around. Don’t think we ll ever see another Messi, but there aren’t even any players of a few levels below him coming through, Mbappe aside.

I would hope even we can't fuck up getting into the next World Cup with Ødegaard and Haaland in their prime. Haaland being a Lewa replacement at least.

[bradders1011]

I thought Sergio Perez was Mexican.

[Barneylfc∗]

Why is Aguero trying to hog the limelight? Worse than John Terry

[S]

Sometimes I think that Maradona gets the same legendary treatment as musical geniuses who died too early at the peak of their careers, and so no one ever got to see the two or three shit albums that they would have recorded as they got older.

When you look at the club level, there is no comparison between both in my opinion. If Maradona had had a longer career like Messi has and had played with the same intensity, consistency and longevity I would understand, but how can anyone doubt Messi's status now? The guy has pretty much broken every record there is to break and has now won every major trophy. He is still dismantling teams at the age of 35 ffs. He is not human.

Agree with every word of this. Those who still claim Maradona is better are equal parts overly nostalgic and ignorant. There is no comparison. There hasn’t been for a long time but today makes absolutely sure.

[Ray K]

Sid Lowe on Messi

Messi emulates Maradona in fairytale ending to a story like no other

Argentina’s maestro followed his hero in leading his country to the World Cup and completed his collection of titles

Lionel Messi completed football here, the greatest story ever told. The 26th and last match of his World Cup journey was the final to end all finals, a moment that’s never been equalled before and probably never will be again. So wild that none of it made any sense until he was standing there waving to the stands smiling, and then it all did. It was hard to comprehend what he and they had gone through – an entire career, the most accomplished of all, packed into one absurd evening – but there was closure at last.

It was done. The world had the ending it wanted – Didier Deschamps had said that even some of the French were on Messi’s side – just don’t ask how. Eventually, from somewhere up there, Messi’s mum found her way down to embrace the boy who left home, Argentina, at 13 and the man who had now taken them – or had they taken him? – to the title the most devotional of football fans desperately wanted. Together, they cried. Everyone did. Ángel Di María had spent the evening torn and in tears.

Across the turf France’s president, Emmanuel Macron, was hugging Kylian Mbappé. If it is any consolation, this history maker should be back. Messi will not. But now, 16 years after his first attempt, it had actually happened. Argentina had won the World Cup, their first since 1986. Messi had the one thing missing. One? It felt like Argentina had to win this three times, experiencing enough emotion for a lifetime, taken to heaven and to hell and back again.

Gonzalo Montiel had just rolled in the penalty that made them world champions, dashing off as teammates crumpled to the ground. That much you knew, but it was an effort to grasp what had gone before. What mattered was coming next. It was 9.31pm when Messi approached the cup and gently kissed it. He had been called to get the golden ball, made to wait a little longer to lift the actual cup, but he couldn’t just walk past. He would be back to raise it to the sky.

Muchachos, the soundtrack of this month, rang around: land of Messi and Maradona, we got our hope back, it runs. The hope, which is what kills you, had been snatched from them repeatedly but they pulled it back, as if some cosmic force was at play. Which in a way it was; more than one of them, in fact.

Twice Argentina led, twice France equalised, and as it went to penalties it was easy to allow fatalism in, to believe it was happening again, football cruelly refusing to return what he had given so generously for two decades; 2014, 2015, 2016, and now 2022: four finals lost after extra time, three on penalties.

Not this time. Copa América winners in 2021, this is a different Argentina. It is a different Messi too, a liberated version, the essence of everything he has been. So when the shootout came, it was not punishment so much as opportunity, Messi rolling in the first so easily Hugo Lloris almost had time to go down and get up again. For the third time in this wild, wild game he had the ball in the net.

He had scored the opener with a penalty and Argentina took a 2-0 lead that seemed secure, his old friend Di María superb, but instead they managed to make an epic of this. An outrageous shot at 2-2, a cartoon moment, had almost won it in the last minute. Just as it felt like everything was slipping away, a far less aesthetic moment arrived. Messi scrambled home late in extra time to put them on the verge of the title again, the 793rd and worst goal of his career looking likely to be the very best. Instead, they were instead taken to penalties by an extraordinary Mbappé hat-trick.

There, Dibu Martínez was the hero and Montiel ended it. This was about all of them, but it was about Messi. There was Enzo Fernández, who begged him to stay after he retired six years ago now. Julián Álvarez, the kid who waited for his autograph. Rodrigo De Paul and Leandro Paredes, who had invited him to a mate, this team in the making. The extraordinary Alexis Mac Allister, who argues with his dad that Messi is the best ever and seemed hellbent on proving it here. Even Sergio Agüero, the friend called to the squad to share a room with him like old times.

And of course Lionel Scaloni, there at the start and there now at the end. On Messi’s first international appearance, he was the teammate defending the teenager sent off inside two minutes; now, 17 years, 172 games, 98 goals and one World Cup win later, he was there again, the manager who finally made it all work, justice done. Go get the cup, you’ve earned it. We’ve earned it for you.

On a stage shaped like infinity, they draped him in an emir’s robe and handed him the trophy. He wasn’t in a hurry to hand it on. He took it in his hands and gazed at every inch of it, turning it slowly. He held it like a child. His actual children soon joined. This was his cup; there has never been a story like this, a competition so centred around one man – although an immense challenger appeared here – everyone waiting for the finishing touch, the perfect farewell. Süddeutsche Zeitung likened it to a crowd gathering to see Michelangelo apply the final brushstroke.


He had played here like destiny called, breaking records, as he has always has. Look at those scattergraphs and so often he’s a lone dot, like some far away planet. This is the man who exhausted adjectives and invented a new category: “apart from Messi”. At 35, his two goals here took him past Pelé. Only Mbappé scored more in Qatar than his seven goals plus two penalties in shootouts and no one provided more assists.

It wasn’t just a storyline; it was him, every step. The release against Mexico and the flash of fire against Australia. His assists made Claudio Caniggia of Nahuel Molina and a complete wreck of Josko Gvardiol. No one had ever scored in the last 16, the quarter-finals, the semi‑finals and the final before. En route he saw off Robert Lewandowski and Luka Modric. Now, he had survived Mbappé. Game over, Messi wins.

[4pool]

I'm sure the debates will endure due to the different eras, but for me he's surpassed Maradona - who was never at this level consistently for so long.

I wasn't born when Pele was playing, but I find it hard to equate 3 world cups and an entire career with Santos and New York Cosmos with what Messi has done at the highest level (for almost 2 decades and against far better opposition every week).

If Maradona or Pele had a list anywhere near the domestic, European and International achievements like the list below, then I might be persuaded, but Messi is just so far ahead on every possible metric - whilst also excelling in multiple positions for different teams, during an era where there are more great players than ever before.

If the GOAT debate continues, at least the shortlist is down to 2 now.

An entire career with Santos..

You're right about one thing, you weren't around then. What does 3 World Cups for Brazil tell you? Then think back to those days when Brazilians DIDN"T play abroad. Pele playing with Santos was playing against the world's best week in and week out. He went to the New York Cosmos when he was Messi's age right now, 35.  And still scored 37 goals in 2 seasons.

This was an era when kicking players for fun was routine.

It's always harder to compare talented players from era to era. But Pele is still #1. As for his records, well they are as long as your arm.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Am I the only person on the planet that thinks that Messi is a diving, cheating, cryarsing little shite?

[oojason]

Am I the only person on the planet that thinks that Messi is a diving, cheating, cryarsing little shite?

Andy Robertson does too mate

Go back a few pages and you'll find some articles on his racist remarks made to black players, and others who also think he's a diving cheat at times. Tax-dodger too, of course.

[Bullet500]

What a player. Imagine the very small minority that boycotted this tournament for performative/egotistical reasons. Only to miss out on the greatest group stages and final of all time. While wanking themselves into a coma about 2026. In America where there is anti abortion struggles in Dallas along with mass racial prejudice to black peoples and Hispanics. But I already see them clamouring. What a moment for my favourite player of all time and what a beautiful tournament with no violence or distastefulness

I'd say, US is better than Europe (including UK) when it comes to views on diversity and inclusiveness. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/07/12/in-views-of-diversity-many-europeans-are-less-positive-than-americans/

Sure, it has its problems. Not denying that.

[KloppCorn]

I'd say, US is better than Europe (including UK) when it comes to views on diversity and inclusiveness. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/07/12/in-views-of-diversity-many-europeans-are-less-positive-than-americans/

Sure, it has its problems. Not denying that.

are you a bot? What are you talking about? African Americans are some of the most racist to other black people ever. Do you know about ADOS and the constant undermining of Black African/Caribbean people in the US. Fuck America I will boycott that World Cup. Don’t try clean your image for me posting articles. London we have all culture here and we all combine I can’t speak for the rest of these chav towns in the UK but we are our own metropolitan country. 

[Chakan]

What a player. Imagine the very small minority that boycotted this tournament for performative/egotistical reasons. Only to miss out on the greatest group stages and final of all time. While wanking themselves into a coma about 2026. In America where there is anti abortion struggles in Dallas along with mass racial prejudice to black peoples and Hispanics. But I already see them clamouring. What a moment for my favourite player of all time and what a beautiful tournament with no violence or distastefulness

Lol.

Except for all the workers who died. Yup no violence or distastefulness.

Anyway glad you had a good experience and enjoyed it. As for wanking myself silly and missing Messi lifting the cup, I can live with that.

[farawayred]

Am I the only person on the planet that thinks that Messi is a diving, cheating, cryarsing little shite?

You and me too. And a whole army.

Messi is a brilliant player, but I’ll never condone such behavior like his and his teammates. He’s not as big a c*nt as Di Maria, but not a gulf between them.

Pele, the best player ever, the GOAT.

[Bullet500]

are you a bot? What are you talking about? African Americans are some of the most racist to other black people ever. Do you know about ADOS and the constant undermining of Black African/Caribbean people in the US. Fuck America I will boycott that World Cup. Don’t try clean your image for me posting articles. London we have all culture here and we all combine I can’t speak for the rest of these chav towns in the UK but we are our own metropolitan country. 

Fortunately, I’m neither from the US nor from the UK.

And, as a neutral, I am likely to believe in research/good surveys rather than forum posts.

[Alan_X]

...Imagine the very small minority that boycotted this tournament for performative/egotistical reasons...

Sorry mate but you can get to fuck with that remark. You may not give a shit about homophobia and the treatment of migrant workers in Qatar but many do. I  gave up my boycott for the last few games and I'm glad I saw that final but I feel dirty for doing so and I admire the people I know who stuck it out to the end.

[Knight]

Given Mbappe's thread title this should be changed to, 'Lional Messi - the best there ever was' and a question mark at the end if necessary for the ongoing Maradonna debate.

[Libertine]

Should’ve been over already, but this will well and truly end the GOAT debates.

If only that were true, this farce of a tournament would almost have been worth it.

Unfortunately, the most tedious type of debate will no doubt go on and on...

[Persephone]

What a player. Imagine the very small minority that boycotted this tournament for performative/egotistical reasons. Only to miss out on the greatest group stages and final of all time. While wanking themselves into a coma about 2026. In America where there is anti abortion struggles in Dallas along with mass racial prejudice to black peoples and Hispanics. But I already see them clamouring. What a moment for my favourite player of all time and what a beautiful tournament with no violence or distastefulness

Get fucked all the way off. I did not boycott that shitshow because of "performative/egotistical reasons". I boycotted it because I refuse to support a regime that considers certain people to be expendable and inferior. Thousands were enslaved in horrific conditions and continue to have their rights abused in order to wank off billionaire despots who wanted to sportswash their regime. Women are treated as non entities and their lives are only worthy if they can birth and raise children. LGBTQ are "vermin" and can be killed purely for existing. No one is praising the US so piss off with that false equivalency bull shit. You're an idiot if you believe there was no violence or a troll.

[Lusty]

Can he do it on a rainy Wednesday night at Stoke though.

The only blemish on an otherwise perfect career.

[Andy82lfc]

An entire career with Santos..

You're right about one thing, you weren't around then. What does 3 World Cups for Brazil tell you? Then think back to those days when Brazilians DIDN"T play abroad. Pele playing with Santos was playing against the world's best week in and week out. He went to the New York Cosmos when he was Messi's age right now, 35.  And still scored 37 goals in 2 seasons.

This was an era when kicking players for fun was routine.

It's always harder to compare talented players from era to era. But Pele is still #1. As for his records, well they are as long as your arm.

Agree 100%.

I tend to stay out of this thread due to the blindness of such things, not sure if it’s basic ignorance or this whole obsessive fan boy culture some have, but hearing some put Maradona above Pele is just ridiculous and that’s before you even get to Messi.

[Ma Vie en Rouge]

What a player. Imagine the very small minority that boycotted this tournament for performative/egotistical reasons. Only to miss out on the greatest group stages and final of all time. While wanking themselves into a coma about 2026. In America where there is anti abortion struggles in Dallas along with mass racial prejudice to black peoples and Hispanics. But I already see them clamouring. What a moment for my favourite player of all time and what a beautiful tournament with no violence or distastefulness

I'm rarely (if ever!) rude on here, but do fuck off. Accusing others of egotistical reasons for boycotting a tournament that killed thousands, so that you can feel ok about dancing around about Messi who will soon, no doubt, be promoting the next installment of the FIFA tyrants tour.

You'll be clamouring for tyrannical owners for our club soon, if not already.

[tubby]

Imagine the very small minority that boycotted this tournament for performative/egotistical reasons.

Fuck America I will boycott that World Cup.

Just ignore the pair of clown shoes posting under this account.

[Ma Vie en Rouge]

He'll boycott the USA but not a World Cup where thousands died to build the infrastructure and gay people are tortured and killed by the state. Yep, that seems fine.

[Persephone]

He'll boycott the USA but not a World Cup where thousands died to build the infrastructure and gay people are tortured and killed by the state. Yep, that seems fine.

He's a troll, just going back a bit in his post history and it's... Interesting.

 

[Red-Soldier]

Agree 100%.

I tend to stay out of this thread due to the blindness of such things, not sure if it’s basic ignorance or this whole obsessive fan boy culture some have, but hearing some put Maradona above Pele is just ridiculous and that’s before you even get to Messi.

Yeah.  It's a weird one for me too.

Lots of posters absolutely creaming themselves.  It might be related to their age, but I'm guessing some don't even have that excuse.

I was born in 80 and grew up watching lots of old football videos and reading lots of football encyclopedias.  Pele is the greatest of  them all.

[AndyMuller]

KloppCorn is the same weirdo that was here under KloppageTime and all those other weird accounts.

[Zlen]

Don't know what it is about Messi that has always rubbed me the wrong way. He is obviously supremely talented, motivated and efficient. Perhaps it's the carefully cultivated aura of humbleness that seems to be just a paper-thin veneer, or the fact that even at his most breathtaking I never though he had that 'something', that spark of artistic genius you could see dripping from the likes of Ronaldinho. I'm not sure - but for some reason, I always, which is probably a heresy to say, found him boring.

[-Willo-]

Don't know what it is about Messi that has always rubbed me the wrong way. He is obviously supremely talented, motivated and efficient. Perhaps it's the carefully cultivated aura of humbleness that seems to be just a paper-thin veneer, or the fact that even at his most breathtaking I never though he had that 'something', that spark of artistic genius you could see dripping from the likes of Ronaldinho. I'm not sure - but for some reason, I always, which is probably a heresy to say, found him boring.

Come on now?!

[AndyMuller]

It is fitting that a tax dodging, Saudi loving, midget lab rat won the World Cup that was hosted in Qatar.

[KloppCorn]

KloppCorn is the same weirdo that was here under KloppageTime and all those other weird accounts.

I have never been another account. You need to let me breathe. On my case constantly. Kind of ebullying if you may. Go raise your kids or something.

[Zlen]

Come on now?!

It's just me I suppose.
I'm biased, never liked the guy.

[AndyMuller]

I have never been another account. You need to let me breathe. On my case constantly. Kind of ebullying if you may. Go raise your kids or something.

Never had another account yet this is the first time I've ever quoted you on this account and I "need to let you breathe". Strange that.

[Ma Vie en Rouge]

 

[Andy82lfc]

Yeah.  It's a weird one for me too.

Lots of posters absolutely creaming themselves.  It might be related to their age, but I'm guessing some don't even have that excuse.

I was born in 80 and grew up watching lots of old football videos and reading lots of football encyclopedias.  Pele is the greatest of  them all.

That’s it though, I bet the majority of these fan boys creaming themselves have never watched more than a few minutes of Pele in action, let alone a full game. I was a bit ignorant to Pele myself to be fair until I started to watch a lot more games and footage of him when I was younger.

Not even mentioning his 3 World Cup wins in 3 different decades his numbers are outrageous and beat Messi’s even with a lot of friendlies and other games taken off. He didn’t have an Instagram following though so I guess he can only blame himself for that.

[Nick110581]

Don't know what it is about Messi that has always rubbed me the wrong way. He is obviously supremely talented, motivated and efficient. Perhaps it's the carefully cultivated aura of humbleness that seems to be just a paper-thin veneer, or the fact that even at his most breathtaking I never though he had that 'something', that spark of artistic genius you could see dripping from the likes of Ronaldinho. I'm not sure - but for some reason, I always, which is probably a heresy to say, found him boring.

If this is serious then maybe watch another sport.

[KloppCorn]

If this is serious then maybe watch another sport.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

What a player. Imagine the very small minority that boycotted this tournament for performative/egotistical reasons. Only to miss out on the greatest group stages and final of all time. While wanking themselves into a coma about 2026. In America where there is anti abortion struggles in Dallas along with mass racial prejudice to black peoples and Hispanics. But I already see them clamouring. What a moment for my favourite player of all time and what a beautiful tournament with no violence or distastefulness

Get fucked

[Zlen]

If this is serious then maybe watch another sport.

Quite serious.
And I like football just fine, different tastes and all.
Now excuse me while I go back to my small egotistical minority.

[KloppCorn]

Sorry mate but you can get to fuck with that remark. You may not give a shit about homophobia and the treatment of migrant workers in Qatar but many do. I  gave up my boycott for the last few games and I'm glad I saw that final but I feel dirty for doing so and I admire the people I know who stuck it out to the end.

fair enough. I can admit when I’m wrong.

[Ma Vie en Rouge]

fair enough. I can admit when I’m wrong.

Then fucking think before you post utter nonsense. It's tiresomely stupid.