I'm asking as an England fan because I'm English and Indian. My friends from my shitty little northern hometown are of indian and pakistani heritage but supporting England. Yet all I hear on this thread is about how racist the country is and how nice places like Italy are and people like you supporting Italy because of the xenophobia in England.
Really?
ALL you've heard on this thread?
You sure Scatty lad.
Respectfully suggest you read back through the thread mate to check on that 'ALL' aspect because as I see things it overlooks a quite significant aspect of why the thread has taken the wide diversion it has from its intended MATCH THREAD analysis path. Moreover, the aspect to which I refer is not a million miles away in its broad essence - albeit manifestly not anywhere near as fundamentally overt, concerning and worrying - as the racism and xenophobia to which you refer.
Fact is I alone have got a dozen or so posts in the thread since page 442 [footy link pure coincidence btw
] and there's not a solitary reference in any of them to racism or xenophobia as a reason for myself as a born and bred Englishman not supporting the national team. Read also the posts of so many others too - notably VBG - who likewise have made no reference whatsoever for their reasons for finding themselves unable to support England due to racism or xenophobia by English fans.
Of course there is a 'sort of' much diluted equivalent to those two rancid phenomena of racism and xenophobia which have been experienced by Liverpool folks over these past 40 odd post Thatcher years which have had the consequence of making those folks like myself come to feel alienated from the country of their birth purely because of their Liverpudlian roots. As a white person I of course have no idea how this equates to the sort of racism and xenophobia yourself and your mates have experienced but I assure you that in itself it has been enough down the years to make the likes of myself feel very little if any connection with the country in which we were born.
As a person of Indian heritage who has lived in various European cities - England (the UK as whole for a matter) is light years ahead of 99% of the continent in the way it treats people like me. Yes I know you've done your various little tourist visits to cities and they've treated you nicely. Have you ever lived in Rome as a brown man? Did your African friend ever get raped and the police not give a shit just because she was African(thank god for NGOs in Rome)? Do you have a click in your ankle because someone randomly decided to stomp on it on a night out just because you look different and tell you that this country isn't your place to stay?
Have you ever lived in Krakow? It's a lovely city, I'm still here, 6 years now yet I've suffered a broken nose and a fractured orbital bone from 2 punches thrown at me by the faces of men I never saw with the words 'spierdalaj brazowy kurwa'. In Zagreb, another place I lived in and fell in love with, I was told 'n****s arent allowed here' before my friends intervened. This is in this decade just gone, the 2010s.
Unimaginably horrible experiences mate. I sympathise unequivocally with you and your friends. Shocking.
Sadly, such incidents do and can happen because some people are just shit, racist and violent too and regrettably they exist anywhere and everywhere whether it be Liverpool, Bradford, London or Krakow. Nonetheless, if as you allude we are light years ahead of other nations then that is great. Clearly.
Let me tell you about a story in the 1970s when an old white man decided to take a 14 year old indian kid who wanted to earn extra money to Liverpool market to work every morning and would drop him off to school too. Let me tell you about how a northern town in England took in 2 orphaned twins from Uganda whose parents were killed by Idi Amin and helped them grow up and become successful pharmacists whilst keeping them in tune with their culture. When I lived in North West London - my close friend group consisted of a Punjabi Sikh, a Hindu Punjabi, a kid from Zimbabwe, a Karachi Christian, a Gujarati Muslim, a Jewish kid from Barnet and a Tamil from Sri Lanka, I'm a 'Kutchi' Hindu.
They are truly heartwarming stories Scatty and they speak volumes about the decent folks you can find in this country. Whether England as a nation has more of this sort of kindness and noble action than other countries I am in no position to say - although we all have seen incidents and read tales of Eastern European countries in particular displaying diametrically opposite behaviour, presumably stemming from the absence of black and brown ethnic diversity in such countries which can I would surmise foster such antipathy - possibly not that dissimilar to parts of Britain in the time prior to large scale ethnic immigration which inevitably has gone on to change things here so dramatically.
Why do I still live in a place with this kind of overt racism? My parents ask me that all the time, well my parents lived in 1960-70s England surivved and the country became accepting over time, so I'm hoping Poland will as well. I'm manager of a football team here, the first foreign founded club in the Polish league system, our captain has a rainbow armband, sure he's got kicked a lot for it too but our club is here for all (the Polish too). My club has 40 footballers from 24 countries and even more cultures. My ability to manage however is limited by the Polish FA, you have to be Polish to take coaching courses you see. Do you know who hasn't stopped me taking their courses despite where I live? The English FA, in fact their first 2 intro courses allow anyone anywhere in the world to take (my Brazilian, Angolan and Portuguese coaches have taken them - they've never lived in England). The course materials are also night and day to the ones in Poland, Croatia and other places - they focus on respect, positivity, empathy, inclusivity, disabled football, first aid training (especially CPR/defib).
Fantastic mate. Well done to you and your coaches. Terrific achievement.
Forgive me, however, if I do not shower the English FA with even the merest modicum of praise or appreciation no matter how deserved it may seem to be. They will always be a shower of c*nts to the likes of so many scousers - both Red and Blue - denied countless deserved tickets to enable the cronies to bask in their glory day at our expense. Oh and there's also a small matter of of their role in Hillsborough too both pre and post tragedy.
So back to the England team, I think most people who hate them, look back at the 70s and 80s and think England as a whole in its attitude is still like that towards 'forengers' - sure there's not a single British Asian (such a wide grouping its a ridiculous term) - however to me and my friends in our backwater Northern town and to my friends in London - when we look at that squad they represent us best than anyone else. They are a product of what our parents and grandparents achieved in England.
But of course to some of you, I'm just a racist xenophobe shouting Ingurland who says effnik and innit
I think I've already explained both here and within my many posts how so many within this thread - and, more significantly, within the wider population of our amazing wonderful city which is after all the home of the amazing wonderful footy club we all [or nearly all] on here support - no longer feel any affiliation to the national team of the country of their birth. 'Hate' is not necessarily how I would bracket the feelings of such folks but at very least the term 'love' most certainly does not figure in the equation.
And rest assured Scatty lad - you are clearly not a racist xenophobe shouting Ingurland and saying effnik and innit - unless that is you're the biggest fucking imposter on the planet which I very much doubt.
PS Just a note for those referencing Scatty's post as brilliant - not least the mods [save for one]. I found it a post containing so many moving and touching very real life experiences and bloody good on Scatty for enriching the forum with those disturbing experiences which must make all of us shudder, take a breath and think on. However, I cannot agree with the brilliance mantle not least as it contains far too much what I'm compelled to term convenient and over-simplistic stereotyping of those like myself who do not support England not because they choose not to but because due to their own life experiences over many years they have simply no longer been left with that vital sense of attachment to their national team - or their home country - to do so.
