Author Topic: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance  (Read 246927 times)

Offline Barneylfc∗

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #1320 on: March 23, 2024, 10:24:18 am »
31/03/2024 14:00 Brighton (h)
04/04/2024 19:30 Sheffield United (h)
07/04/2024 15:30 Manchester United (a)
11/04/2024 20:00 Atalanta H
14/04/2024 14:00 Crystal Palace (h)
18/04/2024 20:00 Atalanta A
21/04/2024 16:00 Fulham (a)
24/04/2024 20:00 Everton (a)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
27/04/2024 12:30 West Ham United (a) - Could be moved to 14:00 28/04/2024
02/05/2024 20:00 EUROPA LEAGUE SEMI FINAL 1st LEG
04/05/2024 15:00 Tottenham Hotspur (h)
09/05/2024 20:00 EUROPA LEAGUE SEMI FINAL 2nd LEG
11/05/2024 15:00 Aston Villa (a)
FREE MIDWEEK
19/05/2024 16:00 Wolverhampton (h)
22/05/2024 20:00 EUROPA LEAGUE FINAL
Craig Burnley V West Ham - WEST HAM WIN - INCORRECT

Offline Chris~

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #1321 on: March 23, 2024, 10:27:09 am »
West Ham game will be Sunday 2pm if Arsenal have a champions league match on Tuesday 30th April.
Feels like this is another reason having multiple broadcasters is a bit of shit show. Why not just have it that way a yeay so fans aren't getting fucked about with a week or so notice

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #1322 on: March 23, 2024, 11:00:46 am »
Are Arsenal guaranteed to play on that specific Tuesday mentioned if they beat Bayern? Or can it still be the Wrdnesday? Suppose it'd depend on the other teams fixtures.

Might be best for us they go through in that case.
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Offline HardworkDedication

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #1323 on: March 23, 2024, 11:03:11 am »
Are Arsenal guaranteed to play on that specific Tuesday mentioned if they beat Bayern? Or can it still be the Wrdnesday? Suppose it'd depend on the other teams fixtures.

Might be best for us they go through in that case.

It's a bit confusing to be honest but looking at this, there are a number of permutations.

https://twitter.com/TheKopHQ/status/1771481517572632947/photo/1

Going by the above, I'm assuming our game against West Ham would be moved to Sunday if Arsenal get through but I could be wrong. How is every one else interpreting this.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2024, 11:05:08 am by HardworkDedication »

Offline Nick110581

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #1324 on: March 23, 2024, 11:03:12 am »
Are Arsenal guaranteed to play on that specific Tuesday mentioned if they beat Bayern? Or can it still be the Wrdnesday? Suppose it'd depend on the other teams fixtures.

Might be best for us they go through in that case.

I have no idea.

The fact we have three games in 7 days is a fucking piss take.

We are going to need to win 8/9 to take this title.
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Offline JackWard33

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #1325 on: March 23, 2024, 11:17:30 am »
Are Arsenal guaranteed to play on that specific Tuesday mentioned if they beat Bayern? Or can it still be the Wrdnesday? Suppose it'd depend on the other teams fixtures.

Might be best for us they go through in that case.

Its clearly better for us if Arsenal and City both go through we want them playing a semi final vs each other

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #1326 on: March 23, 2024, 11:29:29 am »
Its clearly better for us if Arsenal and City both go through we want them playing a semi final vs each other

Fair enough for some people but I'd argue it's up for debate. I wanted Arsenal to go out to Porto and would want City to go out regardless of what stage they're at. The best thing that could happen for me now is Arsenal to go through and City to go out so it's Arsenal/Madrid in the semis, of course then wanting Madrid to win.

One of them will probably make the final (City presumably) but I don't want to see them play each other in a semi final at all, guaranteeing one of them get through and face another rank underdog in the final.

As for what it means in the league, there's enough evidence either side it can be good for a side or bad for them depending on their European progress. I personally reckon Arsenal see the Champions League as a bonus, I genuinely don't think they'd be too arsed going out of it if it helped them in the league. That's just me though.
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Online actwithoutwords

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #1327 on: March 23, 2024, 11:31:13 am »
Notwithstanding the fuckery around the timing of the CL semis and impact on league games, this is what the run-in for the top three currently looks like:


Offline JackWard33

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #1328 on: March 23, 2024, 11:49:32 am »
Fair enough for some people but I'd argue it's up for debate. I wanted Arsenal to go out to Porto and would want City to go out regardless of what stage they're at. The best thing that could happen for me now is Arsenal to go through and City to go out so it's Arsenal/Madrid in the semis, of course then wanting Madrid to win.

One of them will probably make the final (City presumably) but I don't want to see them play each other in a semi final at all, guaranteeing one of them get through and face another rank underdog in the final.

As for what it means in the league, there's enough evidence either side it can be good for a side or bad for them depending on their European progress. I personally reckon Arsenal see the Champions League as a bonus, I genuinely don't think they'd be too arsed going out of it if it helped them in the league. That's just me though.

The more tough games they play the harder it is to keep level of performance for both of them - doesn’t go much beyond that for me .. couldn’t care less if one of them wins it I just want the league

Where is the Arsenal and the CL thing from? … I’d be surprised if that was the case - the fact they’ve never won the European cup is a huge downgrade on their status as a club … but I’m not an Arsenal fan


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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #1329 on: March 23, 2024, 11:51:23 am »
Notwithstanding the fuckery around the timing of the CL semis and impact on league games, this is what the run-in for the top three currently looks like:



Would be really nice if we could build a pretty solid lead up against Atalanta.

Tottenham in between the (potential) semi finals in Europe too. Wasn't that the same when we played them two years ago, or was that just after the 2nd leg at Villarreal?

Would love Jota to be back right around that time. Feel like it could be too much for the attack to try and win every single game without him.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2024, 11:55:08 am by disgraced cake »
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Offline Fromola

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #1330 on: March 23, 2024, 11:53:39 am »
Atalanta away, Fulham away, Everton away and West Ham away in 9 days is fucking brutal. Especially being screwed with the 12:30 yet again.

That's a horrible schedule.
 
Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #1331 on: March 23, 2024, 11:53:52 am »
The more tough games they play the harder it is to keep level of performance for both of them - doesn’t go much beyond that for me .. couldn’t care less if one of them wins it I just want the league

Where is the Arsenal and the CL thing from? … I’d be surprised if that was the case - the fact they’ve never won the European cup is a huge downgrade on their status as a club … but I’m not an Arsenal fan

I was more thinking from the perspective of an Arsenal fan to be honest, City were always the same before winning it though and I imagine it was like that for Chelsea too. I think your average fan in many places would prefer winning the league title and I know some Liverpool fans are like that too. It's an argument that's been done a million and one times though. Me personally, I'd rather win the European Cup but I do feel with how they let it slip last year Arsenal have their eyes set more on the league title.
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Offline Fromola

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #1332 on: March 23, 2024, 11:55:25 am »
Fucking rats, don't give a fuck about the fans. And another attempt at a screwjob, with the 12.30 Saturday after a Wednesday night away.

Winning this title would be one of the most remarkable achievements in our history given the constant, relentless attempts from refs and tv to fuck us over.

It's not happening. Everything is made impossible for us. Officials will screw us at least one result and that schedule is awful.
Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

Offline Knight

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #1333 on: March 23, 2024, 11:57:09 am »
Title Challengers Past Run-ins:

(2019-2023)

Arsenal - 14* , 16 , 20 , 15 , 15 - Avg. 16 (* Different manager)
Liverpool - 28 , 20 , 26 , 26 , 24 - Avg. 24.8
Man City - 30 , 24 , 21 , 24 , 25 - Avg. 24.8

Arsenal have yet to prove they can manage a run-in. Their best last 10 games have amassed just 20 points and in none of their last 5 seasons would they have won the league from this point. Two would have gone to Liverpool, two to City and one down to goal difference between Liverpool and City. Last season, Arsenal had 5 more points at this stage than they do currently and ended with just 84 points with only 15 points in their last 10 games.

Taking their worst points totals, the minimum you’d expect any team to get is:
Arsenal - 79 (ignoring the 14 under Emery)
Liverpool - 84
City - 84

Taking their best points totals, the maximum you’d expect any team to get is:
Arsenal - 84
Liverpool- 92
City - 93

If we take the averages:

Arsenal - 80
Liverpool - 88.8
City - 87.8

Out of the last 5 seasons we’d go onto break 90 points three times, City only once and Arsenal none, in fact Arsenal would only get above 80 points once.

So, Arsenal have to out perform their best run-in of the last 5, which of course they could do, but they simultaneously have to hope Liverpool and City only at best match their worst run-in from the last 5.

The point is, us and City are experienced at this now, we have the muscle memory (except for the new signings). Couple that with the tricky champions league draws for the other two and I’d suggest the chances of Arsenal winning the league are low, whilst we are in a very good position.

Liverpool’s totals prior to 18/19 would have looked awful too. Arsenals trajectory is a little like ours was back then. No guarantees obviously but I’d be tempted to look at their improving trajectory more than their record 4 years ago.

Offline zamagiure

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #1334 on: March 23, 2024, 12:03:34 pm »
Any Arsenal fan I know wants the holy grail of a European Cup.
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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #1335 on: March 23, 2024, 12:09:15 pm »
That away string we have is where we win it or lose it.

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #1336 on: March 23, 2024, 12:12:58 pm »
Liverpool’s totals prior to 18/19 would have looked awful too. Arsenals trajectory is a little like ours was back then. No guarantees obviously but I’d be tempted to look at their improving trajectory more than their record 4 years ago.
What "improving trajectory"? 20, 15, 15 in the last three seasons without CL football. Now they have a pretty tricky QF in the mix with a manager who doesn't trust/utilise his squad.

Offline Redley

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #1337 on: March 23, 2024, 12:15:56 pm »
Liverpool’s totals prior to 18/19 would have looked awful too. Arsenals trajectory is a little like ours was back then. No guarantees obviously but I’d be tempted to look at their improving trajectory more than their record 4 years ago.

Could you show that ‘trajectory’?

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #1338 on: March 23, 2024, 12:22:51 pm »
West Ham game will be Sunday 2pm if Arsenal have a champions league match on Tuesday 30th April.

Wasn’t it Sunday originally anyway ? I thought it was.
If so why have they moved it back a day?
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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #1339 on: March 23, 2024, 12:31:28 pm »
While all the talk is of City always ending seasons strong, which they do of course, there's a tendency to forget even ourselves we've pretty much always ended campaigns strong under Klopp, I don't think I realised just how strongly we usually finish until looking in to it.

2015/16 - Actually our weakest ending under him in the league but went on a superb run to the Europa League Final
2016/17 - Record from March onwards was 8 wins, 3 draws, 1 defeat from the last 12.
2017/18 - In the same period of the last 12, won 7, drew 3, lost 2, got to the Champions League Final.
2018/19 - Lost 1, drew 4 from the start of the year, won the other 13, another CL Final.
2019/20 - Dropped points in just two of the first 29, won 6, lost 2, drew 2 in lockdown.
2020/21 - Reversed the poor form of early 2021 and won 8, drew 2 of the final 10.
2021/22 - Drew 3 after January, no losses, won 16 and yet another CL Final. Probably the most impressive form in the history of the club and still didn't win one of the big two titles.
2022/23 - 7 wins and 4 draws from the last 11 but still no CL finish.

This side finishes seasons so well, what we have can certainly win both trophies but I've got a feeling now more than ever we might just have to rely on favours from elsewhere should we want to win the league. That run of away games in April looks a bastard but it'll only count for anything anyway if we take no less than 10 points from the next four (Brighton, Sheff Utd, Man Utd, Palace). Even 10 probably won't be enough from that come the end of the season, need to be winning all four then I can really see the momentum just carrying us through to victory.
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Offline 1892tillforever

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #1340 on: March 23, 2024, 12:32:06 pm »
Atalanta away, Fulham away, Everton away and West Ham away in 9 days is fucking brutal. Especially being screwed with the 12:30 yet again.

That's a horrible schedule.
I'm sure someone will be around shortly to outline that there's a perfectly reasonable explanation...

We have to win the next four league games, simple as that.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2024, 12:34:16 pm by 1892tillforever »

Offline JackWard33

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #1341 on: March 23, 2024, 12:58:15 pm »
Atalanta away, Fulham away, Everton away and West Ham away in 9 days is fucking brutal. Especially being screwed with the 12:30 yet again.

That's a horrible schedule.
 

It is but the games themselves are not hard … and we’re allowed de prioritize the Europa if we want (our second eleven is probably better than Atlanta)
Ultimately if you go deep in all the competitions you end up with a shit schedule

Offline MonsLibpool

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #1342 on: March 23, 2024, 01:31:17 pm »
We're in a good position and I'm very relaxed. At the start of the season, the consensus was top 4 and a trophy which has been achieved. Now, we have the opportunity to do more.

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #1343 on: March 23, 2024, 01:37:05 pm »
I was more thinking from the perspective of an Arsenal fan to be honest, City were always the same before winning it though and I imagine it was like that for Chelsea too. I think your average fan in many places would prefer winning the league title and I know some Liverpool fans are like that too. It's an argument that's been done a million and one times though. Me personally, I'd rather win the European Cup but I do feel with how they let it slip last year Arsenal have their eyes set more on the league title.


Did you see Arsenal’s celebrations after they crawled past Porto? It was like they’d won the thing. CL is massive for them.

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #1344 on: March 23, 2024, 01:39:52 pm »
Don't forget though it's all fixed as the powers that 'be' want Klopp to win the league 🤔

Offline Caps4444

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #1345 on: March 23, 2024, 01:43:08 pm »
Shame Everton away couldn’t be played in between GW 36&37.
West Ham will a free midweek before they play us.

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #1346 on: March 23, 2024, 02:51:10 pm »

Did you see Arsenal’s celebrations after they crawled past Porto? It was like they’d won the thing. CL is massive for them.
Can't read too much into that, I think. They get the camera out even for routine wins. This was CL knock out tie won on penalties. Getting to the next round under those circumstances when they hadn't played particularly well was bound to be a big release.

Arsenal haven't been in the CL for years and I believe it'll prove a distraction for them. Good news for us as their manager doesn't trust his squad. From manager, to players, to fans they come across as over-wrought and I think juggling a league and CL campaign at the business end will be too much for them.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2024, 02:53:11 pm by zero zero »

Offline stonecold_jpm

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #1347 on: March 23, 2024, 05:09:49 pm »
Notwithstanding the fuckery around the timing of the CL semis and impact on league games, this is what the run-in for the top three currently looks like:



Arsenal will struggle for sure with that schedule, City though are definitely on for the treble again looking at that. At home in CL 2nd legs, only Luton in between their Madrid games and they’ve been handed 4 days rest after the FA Cup Semi final before they play a tricky away at Brighton. Then two more of their toughest aways are both after the CL semis have been played as well. How much more favouritism and luckiness can they get?

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #1348 on: March 23, 2024, 05:16:18 pm »
We probably need Arsenal to beat Abu Dhabi next week to give us a bit of a cushion to Abu Dhabi.
Arsenal have a few tough games were they might drop points. Abu Dhabi don't and I can see them winning their last 9 at a canter.
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Offline Nick110581

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #1349 on: March 23, 2024, 06:30:19 pm »
That schedule is brutal but means nothing unless we are up there after the next four.
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Offline eAyeAddio

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #1350 on: March 23, 2024, 06:36:11 pm »
......no need to have a go at him because of some superstitious bollocks.......

Bayern Munich leaving printed travel directions to the final in Paris on the seats during their semi-final with Liverpool wasn't superstition - it is a fact....... I know this because I was there and I read them.

Liverpool knocking Munich out of the semi final isn't superstition - it is a fact.

What is tempting fate is dicussing victory parades before the titles are won....... If other clubs did this you would be the first to laugh their fans out of town.........

They laugh at me because I'm different.
I laugh at them because they are all the same.....

Offline Barneylfc∗

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #1351 on: March 23, 2024, 06:37:18 pm »
Hopefully Arsenal v Madrid first leg on Tuesday. Will give them a day less rest for Spurs A and us a day extra between Everton and West Ham.
Craig Burnley V West Ham - WEST HAM WIN - INCORRECT

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #1352 on: March 23, 2024, 06:38:20 pm »
Bayern Munich leaving printed travel directions to the final in Paris on the seats during their semi-final with Liverpool wasn't superstition - it is a fact....... I know this because I was there and I read them.

Liverpool knocking Munich out of the semi final isn't superstition - it is a fact.

What is tempting fate is dicussing victory parades before the titles are won....... If other clubs did this you would be the first to laugh their fans out of town.........

The club and Jürgen have already discussed a parade, as has already been pointed out.
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Offline G Richards

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #1353 on: March 23, 2024, 06:48:31 pm »
The part I don’t like to see is how we sometimes talk to each other.

We’re all reds here together, and even if we disagree, we should be able to speak more charitably to each other.

Peace to all.

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #1354 on: March 23, 2024, 07:04:10 pm »
Don't forget though it's all fixed as the powers that 'be' want Klopp to win the league 🤔

I'd take that.

Offline Andar

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #1355 on: March 23, 2024, 07:23:46 pm »
Fuck off with your "potential victory parade".......

Potential victory parades are for other clubs - NOT US !

Stop being a jinx!

Remember Bayern Munich leaving printed travel directions to the final in Paris during their semi-final with Liverpool?   

That was Bob Paisley's team talk done right there !

Don't you remember how stupid they looked when they were knocked out in the semi final?    .......

They were concerned about travel plans too you knobhead.

What a disgraceful post to someone looking for advice.

Offline mc_red22

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #1356 on: March 23, 2024, 07:30:15 pm »
Fuck off with your "potential victory parade".......

Potential victory parades are for other clubs - NOT US !

Stop being a jinx!

Remember Bayern Munich leaving printed travel directions to the final in Paris during their semi-final with Liverpool?   

That was Bob Paisley's team talk done right there !

Don't you remember how stupid they looked when they were knocked out in the semi final?    .......

They were concerned about travel plans too you knobhead.

You're a bad dickhead!

Offline 1892tillforever

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #1357 on: March 23, 2024, 07:53:38 pm »
Arsenal will struggle for sure with that schedule, City though are definitely on for the treble again looking at that. At home in CL 2nd legs, only Luton in between their Madrid games and they’ve been handed 4 days rest after the FA Cup Semi final before they play a tricky away at Brighton. Then two more of their toughest aways are both after the CL semis have been played as well. How much more favouritism and luckiness can they get?
The cheats have a very tough period after the break. Arsenal should be a tough attritional game. Three days later Villa could match up well against them. Short turnaround and the dreaded 12:30 away kick off on Saturday against a team that often gives them problems, then away to Madrid three days later. If they're top at that point it's theirs to lose.

Offline alonsoisared

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #1358 on: March 23, 2024, 08:06:39 pm »
In 19/20 we had a mad schedule after Christmas and ended up winning every game. It's a gruelling looking run but we're perfectly capable of navigating it. I just can't wait for it all to start again after these fucking internationals.

Offline **** The Pain Away.

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #1359 on: March 23, 2024, 08:52:12 pm »
Why is it so brutal with the away games? It is not that much travel given that we play Everton away between 2 visits to London? Should not be an issue.
Meh...