Topic: FSG discussion thread

[Johnny Foreigner]

Thanks for keeping this ticking along whilst there was a game on lads

Always a game on, Future so bright so where do you buy the shades..

[TwitterJayy]

Even from contracts expiring likes of Ox, Keita, Milner, Matip in the next little while, that is some serious money tied up for players that are not starting for us very often (Matip aside). Bobby may also leave.

For a similar wage as those players, you can get a first-team starter rather than someone who is fit 2 months out of the season.

We can easily go from having 8 or 9 midfielders to having 6 and not suffer if they are players that are sturdy and reliable.

You will be saving money when they all go but surely Milner won’t be on much. He’s on a reduced contract and hopefully he gets one more.

Hopefully bobby accepts a reduced one too, but for the rest we really need them to go. Looking at things, it could be another year of transition next season.

[newterp]

You will be saving money when they all go but surely Milner won’t be on much. He’s on a reduced contract and hopefully he gets one more.

Hopefully bobby accepts a reduced one too, but for the rest we really need them to go. Looking at things, it could be another year of transition next season.

It's not going to be that reduced - it will be 100K a week minimum.

I hope there are no more extensions. If we want to keep him around add him to the staff.

We need to get younger, more mobile, and quicker.

[Wabaloolah]

Yes, I expect us to catch arsenal. (NOT)

4th is not impossible obviously, but unless we win 90%+ all of our remaining games, it's very unrealistic.

We're not in a good place right now. (understatement)

if we win 90% of our remaining games we'll get 82 points which will be good enough for at least 3rd and probably higher, to get to 70 points we need the equivalent of 14 wins and that's probably good enough for top 4, so it's 70% plus we need to win not 90.

You've been told a million times not to exaggerate

[Max_powers]

You will be saving money when they all go but surely Milner won’t be on much. He’s on a reduced contract and hopefully he gets one more.

Hopefully bobby accepts a reduced one too, but for the rest we really need them to go. Looking at things, it could be another year of transition next season.

Ox and Naby alone are probably on wages that can cover Bellingham + Kone/Thuram. You can surely get a 20-year-old on 40-50k wages that Milner is probably on.

[TwitterJayy]

It's not going to be that reduced - it will be 100K a week minimum.

I hope there are no more extensions. If we want to keep him around add him to the staff.

We need to get younger, more mobile, and quicker.

I agree with most of that, but you still need players mentoring the young.
Milner is probably the most professional player. He’s played more than he should of this season and is by no means the problem. It’s other who haven’t been doing there role.

I think Milner gets one more year and then goes into coaching. Think people forget Milner is expected to be for early cup games, dead rubbers in Europe and come of the bench to make cameo appearances. Instead he’s been put in some horrendous situations and gave us his all. That’s all I ask of any player

[SamLad]

The man is a marvel, we are so extremely lucky to have him.

[Historical Fool]

Realistically with all the foreign clubs struggling with finances. It’s getting harder and harder to sell our deadwood. I think most PL teams also won’t want to deal with us, so we don’t bump anyone again.

Net spend imo very important when talking about our investment. Also players on big wages such as Henderson, will be very hard to move on.

might be just me, maybe I recall a time when RAWK had honour and chivalry, but calling present players ‘deadwood’ simply isn’t on. Not as long as they wear the shirt?

Net spend exists to make some sets of fans feel better. It has 0 bearing on reality unfortunately.

[Historical Fool]

7/4 doesn't sound like the bookies are that sure of anything.

I would add that 24/7 also doesn’t seem sure of anything, but that might risk me not being able to post on Craig’s favourite thread

[4pool]

might be just me, maybe I recall a time when RAWK had honour and chivalry, but calling present players ‘deadwood’ simply isn’t on. Not as long as they wear the shirt?

Net spend exists to make some sets of fans feel better. It has 0 bearing on reality unfortunately.

+1

[WhereAngelsPlay]

might be just me, maybe I recall a time when RAWK had honour and chivalry, but calling present players ‘deadwood’ simply isn’t on. Not as long as they wear the shirt?

Net spend exists to make some sets of fans feel better. It has 0 bearing on reality unfortunately.

Were you not paying attention when the Boss first joined,when both him and us were desperate for him to be able to do just that.

The team exists to make the people happy,not the players and we sure as shit shouldn't shy away from doing that just because a few players who are either not good enough or are in the final months of their LFC journey might get a bit upset.

[Historical Fool]

Were you not paying attention when the Boss first joined,when both him and us were desperate for him to be able to do just that.

The team exists to make the people happy,not the players and we sure as shit shouldn't shy away from doing that just because a few players who are either not good enough or are in the final months of their LFC journey might get a bit upset.

Please clarify what is the ‘just that’ that the ‘Boss’ wanted to do and ‘we’ shouldn’t ‘shy away from doing’.

Because I cannot recall any instance in which Jurgen Klopp has called his players deadwood.

[AmanShah21]

99 percent of club owners do not take money out of the club. So why do so many people make a big deal out of it.

Because Glazers do. Hicks and Gillett wanted to follow their exact method wherein the club pays a big share of their revenue to pay the debt they took out to buy the club and then pay themselves dividends like the Glazers. It is a big deal. In reality any owner funding is supposed to be money lent to the club, as was the case with 1.6billion lent by Roman to Chelsea at no interest but FFP didnt care when that debt disappeared after the takeover. 99 percent of owners cannot do that either but we are now competing against the ones that can and will. Manchester City being more commercially lucrative than Real Madrid is bullshit, and anyone who has half a brain can see that it is just a creative way for Abu Dhabi to put more money into the club without any FFP issues. Saudis will do the same with Newcastle. That is what we are up against, so we either find our own set of sugar daddies who want to cheat the rules or we stay with the status quo and be sulf sufficient.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Please clarify what is the ‘just that’ that the ‘Boss’ wanted to do and ‘we’ shouldn’t ‘shy away from doing’.

Because I cannot recall any instance in which Jurgen Klopp has called his players deadwood.

Oh here we go,ignore the point and still feign outrage.He obviously didn't and wouldn't as it would've driven the price down,he most certainly made it clear to a number of players that their time was up and he had no intention of using them.

It was 100% said on here,just has it had been for years earlier and the years since.

Said because it is an often used term,so go wring your knickers out and calm down.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Because Glazers do. Hicks and Gillett wanted to follow their exact method wherein the club pays a big share of their revenue to pay the debt they took out to buy the club and then pay themselves dividends like the Glazers. It is a big deal. In reality any owner funding is supposed to be money lent to the club, as was the case with 1.6billion lent by Roman to Chelsea at no interest but FFP didnt care when that debt disappeared after the takeover. 99 percent of owners cannot do that either but we are now competing against the ones that can and will. Manchester City being more commercially lucrative than Real Madrid is bullshit, and anyone who has half a brain can see that it is just a creative way for Abu Dhabi to put more money into the club without any FFP issues. Saudis will do the same with Newcastle. That is what we are up against, so we either find our own set of sugar daddies who want to cheat the rules or we stay with the status quo and be sulf sufficient.

Or there's the 3rd option where FSG  (because I'd be happy for them to stay) release equity based on the Clubs value soaring, had they been doing that then we wouldn't be in our current position where the rebuild costs could run into a couple of hundred million,not including lost revenue if we miss out on the CL.

Totally waisting 2 of the Bosses final years at the Club.

[24/7]

I would add that 24/7 also doesn’t seem sure of anything, but that might risk me not being able to post on Craig’s favourite thread

Believe me, there is plenty about which I am 1000000000% certain..... especially when it comes to this thread 🤔😇

[Historical Fool]

Oh here we go,ignore the point and still feign outrage.He obviously didn't and wouldn't as it would've driven the price down,he most certainly made it clear to a number of players that their time was up and he had no intention of using them.

It was 100% said on here,just has it had been for years earlier and the years since.

Said because it is an often used term,so go wring your knickers out and calm down.

No outrage or feigning thereof, just wanted to be clear.

Because the point was about fans calling players deadwood, not about any clearance of players or refreshing of the squad.

However, despite your clarification, I’m still not exactly sure what exactly was ‘said on here’. If you’re saying that it was 100% sure that people have called current players deadwood, then yes, of course. Exhibit A is one page back.

[JRed]

No outrage or feigning thereof, just wanted to be clear.

Because the point was about fans calling players deadwood, not about any clearance of players or refreshing of the squad.

However, despite your clarification, I’m still not exactly sure what exactly was ‘said on here’. If you’re saying that it was 100% sure that people have called current players deadwood, then yes, of course. Exhibit A is one page back.

Some people just want to be offended.

Deadwood definition : people or things that are no longer useful or productive.

Unfortunately that term absolutely does describe some of the players who need to be moved on.
Heartless and ruthless? Maybe, but it is what’s needed now as the situation has been left too long.
I suppose the club could be kind and give them new contracts. Maybe that would be better.

[Historical Fool]

Some people just want to be offended.

Deadwood definition : people or things that are no longer useful or productive.

Unfortunately that term absolutely does describe some of the players who need to be moved on.
Heartless and ruthless? Maybe, but it is what’s needed now as the situation has been left too long.
I suppose the club could be kind and give them new contracts. Maybe that would be better.

Yes, I agree that he is easily offended.

Back to the point, I don't disagree with the definition of deadwood. I might disagree with who you think is deadwood based on their contribution this season and last, so maybe you'd want to identify who these are?

I do disagree with calling them deadwood, however. That people try their best is realistically all that anyone can ask for. There are other ways to raise the point without resorting to plant analogies.

I think we can safely say that at least 44,640 members of this forum have 0 say in granting new contracts to existing players. Of the remaining 4, the influence of 3 is peripheral at best.

[Historical Fool]

Believe me, there is plenty about which I am 1000000000% certain..... especially when it comes to this thread 🤔😇

To be fair, there are some things you can only learn in a storm.

[vblfc]

Something bugging me. Why is it not absolutely crystal clear (from our fanbase) that we do not want to become a vehicle for sportswashing?  Why am I hearing that Twitter is full if people begging for this takeover to happen? 
If we believe in our principles, then surely it would better to make this crystal clear before it happens?  I realise this can become a minefield, with accusations of xenophobia etc. but surely there is a fair, firm and honest way to make it clear that our fans aren’t up for being used as some form of detergent in the wash?   Feels like we are powerless and forced to be passive? 

[Hedley Lamarr]

Something bugging me. Why is it not absolutely crystal clear (from our fanbase) that we do not want to become a vehicle for sportswashing?  Why am I hearing that Twitter is full if people begging for this takeover to happen? 
If we believe in our principles, then surely it would better to make this crystal clear before it happens?  I realise this can become a minefield, with accusations of xenophobia etc. but surely there is a fair, firm and honest way to make it clear that our fans aren’t up for being used as some form of detergent in the wash?   Feels like we are powerless and forced to be passive?

Unfortunately, there is a not insignificant number that don't care who buys us.  It's depressing to be honest, this club is supposed to be different, truth is, we're going the same way as everyone else and the 'other clubs are doing it and we need to compete' defence is utter bullshit.

Eventually we'll be owned by a group that will use us for sports washing and we'll swallow it up.

[24/7]

To be fair, there are some things you can only learn in a storm.

Even then, none of this really matters in the end......we can all make the choice either to become more deeply emotionally attached to this - or walk away. Life will go on.

[Zlen]

Something bugging me. Why is it not absolutely crystal clear (from our fanbase) that we do not want to become a vehicle for sportswashing?  Why am I hearing that Twitter is full if people begging for this takeover to happen? 
If we believe in our principles, then surely it would better to make this crystal clear before it happens?  I realise this can become a minefield, with accusations of xenophobia etc. but surely there is a fair, firm and honest way to make it clear that our fans aren’t up for being used as some form of detergent in the wash?   Feels like we are powerless and forced to be passive? 

It's just how people are. You have a combination of elements, City beating us twice by a point mostly due to the fact that they are powered by endless money, this season being a bit shit and restless villagers crying out for anyone to immediately inject cash into transfers and finally lot of them 'supporting' Liverpool without really having the feel for the club or the city. I'm quite certain that should such a bid materialise - backlash from actual match going fans would be very swift and visible. But in the current vacuum it's growing in the shade of uncertainty.

[vblfc]

I believe we should be clear now. This may not have any impact on FSG, who might look on it as just business, but it could make a sportswashing vehicle think twice because cleaning their image is their goal. 

[reddebs]

Something bugging me. Why is it not absolutely crystal clear (from our fanbase) that we do not want to become a vehicle for sportswashing?  Why am I hearing that Twitter is full if people begging for this takeover to happen? 
If we believe in our principles, then surely it would better to make this crystal clear before it happens?  I realise this can become a minefield, with accusations of xenophobia etc. but surely there is a fair, firm and honest way to make it clear that our fans aren’t up for being used as some form of detergent in the wash?   Feels like we are powerless and forced to be passive?

What takeover mate?  Has something been announced that I've missed?

[vblfc]

What takeover mate?  Has something been announced that I've missed?

fair point. But more about possibility/probability mitigation.

[Egyptian36]

Unfortunately, there is a not insignificant number that don't care who buys us.  It's depressing to be honest, this club is supposed to be different, truth is, we're going the same way as everyone else and the 'other clubs are doing it and we need to compete' defence is utter bullshit.

Eventually we'll be owned by a group that will use us for sports washing and we'll swallow it up.

I think most local supporters do care and they are who matters the most.
Most of global fans don't care simply because they saw how corrupt the Premier League and the UK government are after what happened at Man City, thier thinking is milk a stupid rich people like what everyone else is doing.

[sminp]

I think most local supporters do care and they are who matters the most.
Most of global fans don't care simply because they saw how corrupt the Premier League and the UK government are after what happened at Man City, thier thinking is milk a stupid rich people like what everyone else is doing.

I don’t agree on the local supporters vs OOTs. For me it’s a generational thing as the older you are the more familiar you are with our roots and also aware of what’s happening in the world. How many teenagers have a clue or care about anything in the wider world, they just want to spend money to compete with the likes of City. It’s not true for all of course but we do tend to become more aware of the wider world the older we get.

[arabliverpool90]

Something bugging me. Why is it not absolutely crystal clear (from our fanbase) that we do not want to become a vehicle for sportswashing?  Why am I hearing that Twitter is full if people begging for this takeover to happen? 
If we believe in our principles, then surely it would better to make this crystal clear before it happens?  I realise this can become a minefield, with accusations of xenophobia etc. but surely there is a fair, firm and honest way to make it clear that our fans aren’t up for being used as some form of detergent in the wash?   Feels like we are powerless and forced to be passive?

Because Liverpool is one of the biggest club in the world with a huge worldwide fanbase in Europe, Africa, America, Middle east and Asia. It's pretty much impossible to have to a fanbase unified on 1 issue. Besides most of our fanbase on Twitter get winded up by their rival fans friends calling Liverpool mid table which makes them even desperate.

[arabliverpool90]

I think most local supporters do care and they are who matters the most.
Most of global fans don't care simply because they saw how corrupt the Premier League and the UK government are after what happened at Man City, thier thinking is milk a stupid rich people like what everyone else is doing.

That is not true. I've seen locals with Liverpool accents okay with Liverpool being sportwashed either on Youtube, Tiktok or other social media places. This is not just exclusive to global fans but rather a problem with social media fans.

[CowboyKangaroo]

Yes, I agree that he is easily offended.

Back to the point, I don't disagree with the definition of deadwood. I might disagree with who you think is deadwood based on their contribution this season and last, so maybe you'd want to identify who these are?

I do disagree with calling them deadwood, however. That people try their best is realistically all that anyone can ask for. There are other ways to raise the point without resorting to plant analogies.

I think we can safely say that at least 44,640 members of this forum have 0 say in granting new contracts to existing players. Of the remaining 4, the influence of 3 is peripheral at best.

This is fair - we shouldn't grow so detached from the concept of footballers being human beings. For people we are supposedly emotionally invested in we are all far to happy to dehumanise them as soon as it is convenient. They may meet ones definition of deadwood. That doesn't mean it is right to refer to them as deadwood.

[24/7]

I think

I think you should think a bit more before coming out with jawdropping generalisations like those

[Stockholm Syndrome]

I don’t agree on the local supporters vs OOTs. For me it’s a generational thing as the older you are the more familiar you are with our roots and also aware of what’s happening in the world. How many teenagers have a clue or care about anything in the wider world, they just want to spend money to compete with the likes of City. It’s not true for all of course but we do tend to become more aware of the wider world the older we get.

I wouldn't say that is from a generational thing but more a maturity. When I was that age I wasn't thinking on a deep level about much outside my area of knowledge because I was still coming to the realities of the world, I was still forming my beliefs. Yeah I was still stringent against far right moves and actions against equality, but you look more at what you can actually see at home. Anything outside your own front garden you have an idea about but not really

It was actually mostly through this club and through forums like this that I learnt more about what's happening in these oil states, and the inequality around the world and the source of this, and I am still learning to this day. I always had an idea of what was happening, but even the stuff I knew about I didn't know the extent or the gravity of what that meant.

People are gaining more awareness of global issues, and as you get older you can better understand these issues and learn of it on a deeper level.

I do feel there are a number of young reds around Liverpool who do oppose state ownership because older fans do. They may not completely know why but they do, and as they get older they will get a fuller picture.

Of course there will also be a lot who don't care, and a large portion of the wannabe influencers on TikTok, YouTube, Twitter, who live off the loud statements without subtleties, who just want money now who cares. I think that's more a victim of the medium the present themselves on and the job they want - it lives and dies on the controversial, the memes, the banter, and the black and white on viewpoints. It's why these platforms have become an easy route to far right views - they live by the basic statement which gets more controversial, until you reach the extreme

[ScouserAtHeart]

Should we do a poll on how much longer people think FSG will still be majority owners? Might liven things up a bit

[deanloco9]

Because Liverpool is one of the biggest club in the world with a huge worldwide fanbase in Europe, Africa, America, Middle east and Asia. It's pretty much impossible to have to a fanbase unified on 1 issue. Besides most of our fanbase on Twitter get winded up by their rival fans friends calling Liverpool mid table which makes them even desperate.

How is it sport washing if it is a private qatari business?

FSG people do business with Donald Trump ffs

[JackWard33]

How is it sport washing if it is a private qatari business?

lols … good one

[lionel_messias]

How is it sport washing if it is a private qatari business?

FSG people do business with Donald Trump ffs

There are long answers to this but in short, I believe all major money in Qatar will be closely linked and approved by state bodies.

It is not helpful if you are stretching to conflate US business interests to Qatar either or other middle eastern countries.

And no, USA is not a blameless paragon of virtue, by any means. If you go down that route, you will not find a Butcher or self-made person in Liverpool with the required $4Bn to own the club.

[Macc77]

if we win 90% of our remaining games we'll get 82 points which will be good enough for at least 3rd and probably higher, to get to 70 points we need the equivalent of 14 wins and that's probably good enough for top 4, so it's 70% plus we need to win not 90.

You've been told a million times not to exaggerate

70 points is not getting 4th this season. If Man United and Newcastle win 10 of their remaining 19 they're both going to be over 70 with a few draws added in, and I see no reason to think their first 19 games won't be replicated in their next 19. Even if they drop off a bit it's still a massive stretch to see either not getting into the 70s.

[naYoRHa2b]

Even if you don't give a shit about the sportswashing, if that doesn't play in to your morals and even if you only care about the financial benefits or whatever...how depressing is it that the competitive teams will all be owned by the middle east, it's not the English premier league is it, it's not the EPL.its the MEPL, you might as well support city and Newcastle, there's no difference, just pick which ever team is in form every week, there's nothing unique about these clubs, they're the same they just play in different parts of England but thats it. That's what we will be, just another club, might as well change our name, it means nothing.