Topic: George Best - on a par with Messi?

[Timbo's Goals]

Georgie Best - my favourite player ever. And I say that as someone who is as fervent a Red as any and fucking hate anything Manc. Except Bestie of course. Anyroad, just come across the most complete compilation of Bestie at his unique best (thank you Filler lad).

Sure Messi’s career and honours dwarfs Bestie’s whose top flight career was cut harrowingly short at the prime age of 26/27 by the booze. Yet his top flight career still spanned a good ten years and pound for pound I’m not sure if any attacking player even Messi can outstrip what’s on this compilation. Match it? Sure. That’s inevitable with Messi’s unrivalled pantheon of everything he’s done including very likely every fart. But eclipse it skill for skill? Hmm. Not sure. Then again I am a Best disciple and I’m no Messi afficianado. So do put me right if I’m just clinging to my nostalgia. But not sure how you’ll sway me after my drooling over the following montage.

https://youtu.be/ZuOkQYayFUI

 

[kavah]

Love it Timbo, just watched the first five and I'll finish it over a cup of tea later.
Two footed, crazy acceleration and balance - God given talents.
I just saw early on in that highlight reel that thing he does when he knows he's going to get clattered and uses the force of the challenge to accelerate away from the defender without losing balance or control of the ball - he had everything didn't he - the looks and the look, cool as anything.

[Sangria]

Love it Timbo, just watched the first five and I'll finish it over a cup of tea later.
Two footed, crazy acceleration and balance - God given talents.
I just saw early on in that highlight reel that thing he does when he knows he's going to get clattered and uses the force of the challenge to accelerate away from the defender without losing balance or control of the ball - he had everything didn't he - the looks and the look, cool as anything.

I'll add another quality that you've not mentioned: courage. In these clips, he shows incredible bravery to keep showing for the ball knowing he's going to be clattered, and keeping hold of the ball after being clattered.

[Timbo's Goals]

Love it Timbo, just watched the first five and I'll finish it over a cup of tea later.
Two footed, crazy acceleration and balance - God given talents.
I just saw early on in that highlight reel that thing he does when he knows he's going to get clattered and uses the force of the challenge to accelerate away from the defender without losing balance or control of the ball - he had everything didn't he - the looks and the look, cool as anything.

I'll add another quality that you've not mentioned: courage. In these clips, he shows incredible bravery to keep showing for the ball knowing he's going to be clattered, and keeping hold of the ball after being clattered.

So pleased you both watched it. I'm on my third watch today!! Great that like myself you marveled at the stuff on that video. A lot of it we've seen before but I'd guess about half is new to me and that more complete representation of just why the likes of us watch him with mouths agape really does do justice to my own memory of what I used to see in those early/mid '60's encounters with United when every time he got the ball you'd shit yourself whilst purring at this genius in footy boots and floppy shirt.

It probably seems almost sacrilegious to some who have Messi or Maradona or Pele on those unassailable pedestals to laud Bestie so much but I think this new far more complete video will help those to see that the fella was the real deal in football genius criteria and not simply hype as many still do seem to think and above all from the perspective of unique God-given talent and execution thereof can be genuinely said to deserve his place on that same unique pantheon as the other three.

 

[Sangria]

So pleased you both watched it. I'm on my third watch today!! Great that like myself you marveled at the stuff on that video. A lot of it we've seen before but I'd guess about half is new to me and that more complete representation of just why the likes of us watch him with mouths agape really does do justice to my own memory of what I used to see in those early/mid '60's encounters with United when every time he got the ball you'd shit yourself whilst purring at this genius in footy boots and floppy shirt.

It probably seems almost sacrilegious to some who have Messi or Maradona or Pele on those unassailable pedestals to laud Bestie so much but I think this new far more complete video will help those to see that the fella was the real deal in football genius criteria and not simply hype as many still do seem to think and above all from the perspective of unique God-given talent and execution thereof can be genuinely said to deserve his place on that same unique pantheon as the other three.

 

From what I saw in that video, the Liverpool analogy I can think of would be peak Barnes or Suarez. The same air of every team mate looking for him to create magic. Except that, even moreso than Barnes (and much moreso than Suarez), opposition defenders were looking to cripple him as a way of stopping him. A non-Liverpool analogy might be Maradona.

[Timbo's Goals]

From what I saw in that video, the Liverpool analogy I can think of would be peak Barnes or Suarez. The same air of every team mate looking for him to create magic. Except that, even moreso than Barnes (and much moreso than Suarez), opposition defenders were looking to cripple him as a way of stopping him. A non-Liverpool analogy might be Maradona.

Yeah. And both him and Maradona seemed almost indestructible, superhuman even despite the burliest defenders attempting to cripple them.

As for Barnesy and Suarez. Loved them both to bits like every Red. They were each amazing in their inimitable styles. Both genuine world class by any gauge in any age. But as much as I'd love it if it were the case neither get near to that God-given level I witnessed with Best or maradona or Messi or pele.

[Sangria]

Yeah. And both him and Maradona seemed almost indestructible, superhuman even despite the burliest defenders attempting to cripple them.

As for Barnesy and Suarez. Loved them both to bits like every Red. They were each amazing in their inimitable styles. Both genuine world class by any gauge in any age. But as much as I'd love it if it were the case neither get near to that God-given level I witnessed with Best or maradona or Messi or pele.

Just trying to think of Liverpool analogies, in case readers aren't familiar with any football outside Liverpool. In all my experience of football, Maradona would be the closest.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

One thing Messi has over George Best is a much better goals per game ratio. I wasn't around to watch Best though, and he wouldn't have been protected anywhere near as much as Messi was/is.

[Sangria]

One thing Messi has over George Best is a much better goals per game ratio. I wasn't around to watch Best though, and he wouldn't have been protected anywhere near as much as Messi was/is.

Some of the tackles in the video would be straight reds in today's game. I doubt they were booked at the time.

Another United player from that period who might be less appreciated by Liverpool fans is Bobby Charlton. Like Gordon Banks, what I've seen of him looked surprisingly modern in playing style. He's probably best known for his goals, but I also liked how he quickly got the ball under control, and looked to move the ball on. Unlike many players from the b&w era (or much of the 70s and 80s for that matter), I don't think Bobby Charlton would have looked out of place in a top 2010s side.

[vblfc]

Loved Bestie. The perfect example of flawed genius. On those pitches too

[oldman]

Some of the tackles in the video would be straight reds in today's game. I doubt they were booked at the time.

Another United player from that period who might be less appreciated by Liverpool fans is Bobby Charlton. Like Gordon Banks, what I've seen of him looked surprisingly modern in playing style. He's probably best known for his goals, but I also liked how he quickly got the ball under control, and looked to move the ball on. Unlike many players from the b&w era (or much of the 70s and 80s for that matter), I don't think Bobby Charlton would have looked out of place in a top 2010s side.

george best was a great footballer but messi is the best I've seen.

Bobby Charlton was also a great - remember him scoring a belter in the mancs 4 - 1 win at anfield in 69 ( I think )

[an fear dearg]

You often wonder how Best or maradona or pele would have thrived in the last 20 years?  Maradona and Best were outrageous talents and lifted teams to other levels. Pele was the top dog of a team of top dogs. I reckon if the former 2 had been playing nowadays they would wipe the floor with Ronald or Messi as I just think they had more in them, and that’s no disrespect to messi or Ronaldo

[Barneylfc∗]

You often wonder how Best or maradona or pele would have thrived in the last 20 years?  Maradona and Best were outrageous talents and lifted teams to other levels. Pele was the top dog of a team of top dogs. I reckon if the former 2 had been playing nowadays they would wipe the floor with Ronald or Messi as I just think they had more in them, and that’s no disrespect to messi or Ronaldo

There aren't too many players that you could say would be able to play in any era. The greats of the past could certainly play in today's game, but there would be even fewer from today's game that could play on the pitches of the 60s/70s/80s and handle the physical aspect of the game. I think Messi could, but Ronaldo couldn't. The state of him diving all over the place yesterday, there's no way he would handle the physical side from years gone by.

Being from NI and my mum being a Man Utd fan, obviously I've had people telling me all my life about how good Best was. He's before my time, so all I've got are opinions and compilation videos. Plenty of footage in that clip from Timbo's Goals that I hadn't seen before. The type of player you wish you were old enough to see in the flesh, regardless of who he plays for.

Quite clearly deserves to be mentioned alongside Pele, Messi, Maradona. For me those 4 are streets ahead of anyone else, but Messi will always edge it for me given I have actually seen him play week in week out.

[RedSince86]

When he drops the shoulder, the balance and that burst of acceleration, lethal combination.

5:21 is sublime ,looks that European Cup final which is on that video a few times he absolute destroyed Benfica that night.

[Drinks Sangria]

One thing you've got to say about Best and Maradona; they were having the shit kicked out of them. Look at some of those lunges on Best in that video, you can't tell me that some weren't actively trying to end his career.

Messi for me is the greatest, Maradona my favourite because he's just so human, and Best is definitely more of the latter than the former. Messi, for all the fouling he's taken and attention he's been given, didn't have to play on those pitches, with those balls, with the refereeing and tackling as it was then.

That's why, by and large, it's fun but ultimately fruitless to compare eras.

[Andy82lfc]

Great compilation, he was insanely gifted thats for sure, I never feel like giving an opinion either way on these things to be honest though as I've just not seen enough from either player week in week out to form a proper opinion.

One thing I noticed from the clips though apart from all that skill was the defending back then was absolutely shockingly shite at times, howler after howler, it's like watching a game of fifa when every button was stuck except for the slide tackle option.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Neither of them are a patch on King Kenny, Maradona or the real Ronaldo

[tubby]

The greats of the past could certainly play in today's game, but there would be even fewer from today's game that could play on the pitches of the 60s/70s/80s and handle the physical aspect of the game. I think Messi could, but Ronaldo couldn't. The state of him diving all over the place yesterday, there's no way he would handle the physical side from years gone by.

Ronaldo would dominate defences of yesteryear.  The defenders would never have seen a forward who can skin them on the ground and dominate them in the air.  They'd just resort to hacking him down and it'd be red card city.

There's a lot that's shit about the game these days, but defenders just scything down and hacking lumps out of forwards isn't one of them.

[carling]

Very impressive.  Although got to say prime Messi did things quite similar.. but with a fraction of the time and space Best is being afforded there.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Ronaldo would dominate defences of yesteryear.  The defenders would never have seen a forward who can skin them on the ground and dominate them in the air.  They'd just resort to hacking him down and it'd be red card city.

There's a lot that's shit about the game these days, but defenders just scything down and hacking lumps out of forwards isn't one of them.

I doubt they'd get red cards to be honest.

But he's a strong lad which is why it's even more disappointing that every second of every game he's looking to hit the deck crying. He doesn't need to

[tubby]

I doubt they'd get red cards to be honest.

But he's a strong lad which is why it's even more disappointing that every second of every game he's looking to hit the deck crying. He doesn't need to

Agree on that, he doesn't need to go down like he does.  But you import defenders from the 80s into today's game and they'd be lost without the option to hack players down.  It'd take a year of adjustment at least.  Watch any dribbler from that era and they're constantly hurdling lunges and getting barged into.

[CS111]

Wasn't bad was he. Way way ahead of his time

[So… Howard Philips]

I'll add another quality that you've not mentioned: courage. In these clips, he shows incredible bravery to keep showing for the ball knowing he's going to be clattered, and keeping hold of the ball after being clattered.

Courage and the ability to play on a pitch not dissimilar to a First World War battlefield.

[Red Beret]

Some of the tackles in the video would be straight reds in today's game. I doubt they were booked at the time.

Sometimes they still aren't.

[scatman]

Will just comment on the video itself as I think Messi is just far ahead of anyone I've seen. Genius is overused I feel in football but George Best definitely was on the pitch. Wizadry maybe is a better word, thank you for the video, really enjoyed it despite the music (I really hate footy videos with music, leave the commentary damn it, they make the moment!) One of the greatest for sure, sad that alcoholism never let him go from it's grip in contrast to Greavesie, another legend of the game who managed to overcome it.

[rob1966]

Neither of them are a patch on King Kenny, Maradona or the real Ronaldo

Best did actually say Kenny was a better player than him.

[Timbo's Goals]

Best did actually say Kenny was a better player than him.

I remember him saying that Rob. And the Kop romantic in me wish it were actually true. Kennys from heaven is deffo true but not quite the same rarified part as Bestie.

[AndyMuller]

Some player. I'm just basing that on the video I've just watched, mad the way he just bounces off challenges with the ball like it's nothing.

[tonysleft]

tremendous player with a tremendous way and personality about him. they don't make characters as intriguing and talented as George Best on the home islands anymore

[Barneylfc∗]

Best did actually say Kenny was a better player than him.

Pele said El Hadji Diuof was in the top 100 players of all time.
Steven Gerrard said Joe Cole can do anything Messi can do.

Footballers are generally full of shit 

[TepidT2O]

He used to tell a story…

A hotel Porter comes to his room.  He’s in his bedroom with Miss World in his bed and the bed is covered on money. 

Where did it all go wrong Mr Best? Asks the Porter.

Now George Best used to tell the story as a joke story, because of course, what had gone wrong? Which made it all the sadder, becomes the Porter was right.
An outrageous talent, but one who wasted the best years of his career and ultimately his life.  So sad.

[RedBootsTommySmith]

He used to tell a story…

A hotel Porter comes to his room.  He’s in his bedroom with Miss World in his bed and the bed is covered on money. 

Where did it all go wrong Mr Best? Asks the Porter.

Now George Best used to tell the story as a joke story, because of course, what had gone wrong? Which made it all the sadder, becomes the Porter was right.
An outrageous talent, but one who wasted the best years of his career and ultimately his life.  So sad.

There were a couple of others I'll need to paraphrase:
1- He once said he spent a third of his money on booze, a third on women and he wasted the rest
2- He once said he had a lot of misses in his life...Miss World, Miss England, Miss Sweden...

[tonysleft]

There were a couple of others I'll need to paraphrase:
1- He once said he spent a third of his money on booze, a third on women and he wasted the rest
2- He once said he had a lot of misses in his life...Miss World, Miss England, Miss Sweden...

"It would be hard to choose between bedding Miss World or scoring from 30 yards at Anfield. Lucky for me, I've done both"

They used to hang off his every word on soccer Saturday, great storyteller

[dikwad]

Absolutely fantastic player, best natural talent I've ever seen. He was as famous as the Beatles back then.

[rob1966]

I remember him saying that Rob. And the Kop romantic in me wish it were actually true. Kennys from heaven is deffo true but not quite the same rarified part as Bestie.

Same here, but yes, Best was another level.

Love the story Tommy Smith told about Best being stood in the tunnel at quarter to three, normal clothes on smoking a fag. You not playing today? Yeah, I'd better go get changed.

[Only Me]

I’d say he was a level above Messi.

That skill, on those mud bath pitches, with a ball about four times the weight of the ones they use now, whilst riding the kind of tackles that would put the Twitter gobshites into meltdown.

Unbelievable really.

[RayPhilAlan]

https://youtu.be/ZuOkQYayFUI

 

Thanks for the video, Timbo. Some fantastic goals and dribbling runs. No need to apologise for so many of them being in a Manc shirt - it's always a pleasure to see a good footballer playing good football.

You're a year or two older than me. When I was a teenager, Maradona was the guy, although football people I respected all told me he wasn't as good as Pele. For that reason, for a long time I rejected it when people claimed Messi was as good or better than them, or Best or Cruyff. But as Messi kept turning in 50 goal season after 50 goal season, while having so many assists as well, I eventually had to acknowledge he was the greatest.

Science is part of the reason - better ground conditions, better nutrition, better injury prevention and better injury recovery. Changing refereeing standards have helped Messi shine more too (some of those tackles going in on George in that video! plus the many injuries of Maradona and the two World Cups Pele had to miss that should have been his prime years). I do think having Ronaldo as a personal rival at his team's great rival spurred Messi on too.

Personality helped too. Both Maradona and Best did fritter away some of their talents, and I think that's where I'd take exception to your claim Best was on a par with Messi: we simply don't know how good he would have been if he'd restricted his brilliance to the football field.

Perhaps I haven't seen enough of Best to judge, but one thing that seemed to be missing from this video were assists in any great numbers. I remember 6 or 7 years ago, there was a rumour LFC were interested in getting Pedro from Barca, and one of those Pedro highlights videos was posted on here. For me, it was pretty much a case of, "Well, I could have scored 100 goals for Barcelona too if I had that no. 10 fella putting in passes like that."

Anyway, as I say, always a pleasure to reflect on good footballers.

Next question: who's better - George Best or Virgil van Dijk?

[Wingman]

For me, King Kenny’s in that second tier of greats with Cruyff, Zidane, and Brazilian Ronaldo. George Best shares top table with Pele and Maradona. I’ll decide on Messi and Ronaldo2 when they’ve retired.

I’m not old enough, nor properly watched enough of, DiStefano or Puskas - but my grandad said they were ‘almost as good as Pele’

[thejbs]

Great vid, thanks for sharing OP.  The balance and finesse to his game at a time when English football was pretty agricultural is unreal. To do what he did without the modern pitches, footballs and boots, while getting hacked to bits on the pitch and getting shitfaced off it... certainly up there with Maradona and Messi. 

Should be no shame in enjoying great footballers regardless of who they played for. Best, Keane and Cantona are among my favourites.

[Son of Spion]

My first game at Anfield was against the Mancs in 1971. It was a 2-2 draw. Best played but I don't recall him setting the game alight, but I was just a kid so may have missed the subtleties of his play. I was in the Anny Road End and do remember us giving him a good natured ribbing which he took well.

My dad used to see Best as literally the best. My dad was a Red til the day he died, but had no qualms over lavishing praise onto Best.

From what I remember too, Best was an honest and decent man. He was very respectfully of Liverpool FC and Bill Shankly. I'm not quite old enough to have appreciated him fully, but those who did see him play regularly seem to feel privileged to have done so, and that tells me a lot.