Topic: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?

[SamLad]

I misread your post Turkish. Sorry.

[Mister Flip Flop]

Astounding number of uncommitted votes in Michigan for the democrats. This is a disaster for Biden. Decisions will have to be made and quickly.

[BarryCrocker]

Astounding number of uncommitted votes in Michigan for the democrats. This is a disaster for Biden. Decisions will have to be made and quickly.

Voting for peace.

[Mister Flip Flop]

Voting for peace.

Yeap. Biden being the utter two faced prick he is on the Palestinian question.

[KillieRed]

My irony metre is broken. Can’t tell the jokes from the real.

[bigbonedrawky]

I honestly can’t believe you’re trying to argue that the one man in the world responsible for making the killing possible is somehow better than some random Republican tool. Biden is just the one guy who is actually making it possible to “Kill them all” by supplying the weapons and ordering the veto of ceasefires. Of all the issues to bolster support for Biden, Gaza should be the one off the table because of his indifference towards the cost of human life arising from his beliefs and actions. Please have some respect for the Palestinian people who are dying in horrific ways because of his decisions; their lives shouldn’t be used to score meaningless political points. Other than this message board, I have not seen any Biden supporters point to his handling of Gaza as a reason to support him against the Republicans.

The slavering compulsion to defend Biden against any criticism is becoming like the zombification of Trump’s MAGA supporters. Take a step back and think of Hind Rabat and the thousands of shredded children before you make the argument that somehow Biden is better than the words “kill them all.”

Hi Mimi...First and foremost Israel is responsible for it's own actions The US has used Israel has an arms dump and foothold in the Middle East for decades primarily for Geopolitical reasons and the Middle East is a centre square on the chessboard.
And that is'nt down to Biden, it goes all the way back through previous administrations to FDR  (including Carter's)
Because of this, they have enough weapons stored there to continue their massacre for years to come.
They'll run out of Palestinians to kill before they run out of weapons.
As for the rest of the Arab world Israel has their own nukes to keep them in check.

I'm sure Biden is privately sickened by what has unfoulded since Oct 7th, he doesn't strike me as a sociopath or unlike Bibi a psychopath. Likening the October 7th attack to 15 September 11 attacks says quite a lot about him in regards to human life and the belief that all life is sacred etc in his head thats 45,000 dead US citizens btw... It's just a number to him...It's very telling and it say's a lot.

PS I've just realised I've replied to this post before ... 

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Astounding number of uncommitted votes in Michigan for the democrats. This is a disaster for Biden. Decisions will have to be made and quickly.

'Chlamydia is more popular than Donald Trump'

Former President Donald Trump won the Michigan primary on Tuesday, but former Michigan Republican operative Jeff Timmer rained on his parade by noting how much support rival Nikki Haley got despite the fact that she has no shot at winning the nomination.

"It's not just that Donald Trump continues to lose three or four out of every ten Republican votes," said the political operative, whose bio notes he's also a Senior Advisor to the Lincoln Project. "It's that those voters are never ever ever coming back to Donald Trump. Chlamydia is more popular than Donald Trump among college-educated white voters, especially white women, and even non-college-educated white mainstream Protestant women."

 Trump came out of Michigan with 68.2% of the Michigan vote while Haley ended with 26.6%.

However, Trump's dominance in the state apparently fell off from previous elections in traditionally Republican hubs like Oakland and Kent Counties.

This is where Timmer sees vulnerability in the 45th president's pursuit of the White House.

 Meantime, incumbent Biden took the state easily despite tens of thousands voting "Uncommitted" as a protest launched by some Democrats fuming over his support of Israel’s war against Hamas in Gaza.

"The fact that Donald Trump will never get the votes — that's the biggest story out Michigan tonight," he said. "The way it should be covered Donald Trump's results are much weaker than they appear to be and Joe Biden's results are stronger than expected."

[Lone Star Red]

Astounding number of uncommitted votes in Michigan for the democrats. This is a disaster for Biden. Decisions will have to be made and quickly.

No it's not.

[Red Beret]

I posted a video to the Trump archive on the latest primary numbers. Worth a watch.

I think many people see the headlines and panic, without digging a bit deeper. Trump's base is tapped out and shrinking; Biden is regaining ground he lost towards the end of last year.

[rafathegaffa83]

About time

McConnell stepping down as Senate Leader in November

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68428697.amp

[thejbs]

No it's not.

He won Michigan by 150k last time. There were over 100k uncommitted. I think it’s a concern.

[FlashGordon]

He won Michigan by 150k last time. There were over 100k uncommitted. I think it’s a concern.

How likely are 'uncommitted' protest votes to translate to non votes in the presidential election when faced with the prospect of Trump victory?

[thejbs]

How likely are 'uncommitted' protest votes to translate to non votes in the presidential election when faced with the prospect of Trump victory?

The voxpops I’ve seen would suggest that Muslim democrats are willing to let Biden lose on principle. I imagine many will stay at home if nothing changes - it would be foolish to ignore how emotive this issue is.

[BarryCrocker]

The voxpops I’ve seen would suggest that Muslim democrats are willing to let Biden lose on principle. I imagine many will stay at home if nothing changes - it would be foolish to ignore how emotive this issue is.

Stay at home and get your own version of Netanyahu.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

If they do that then they're kids will be in real danger.

[SamLad]

The voxpops I’ve seen would suggest that Muslim democrats are willing to let Biden lose on principle. I imagine many will stay at home if nothing changes - it would be foolish to ignore how emotive this issue is.

meanwhile Trump is doubling down on his ban Muslims from entering the US bullshit.  so if Muslims are willing to let Biden lose on principle ..... they're idiots.

[GreatEx]

Stay at home and get your own version of Netanyahu.

They'd be lucky to get a Netanyahu. More likely a Smotrich- Ben Gvir bastard child

[Alan_X]

The voxpops I’ve seen would suggest that Muslim democrats are willing to let Biden lose on principle. I imagine many will stay at home if nothing changes - it would be foolish to ignore how emotive this issue is.

Then with all due respect they are turkeys voting for Christmas. The Supreme Court granting cert on the Presidential immunity issue and slow walking the process could mean no trial before the election and hands Trump a win. I’d say there’s currently a 50:50 chance that this time next year, America is effectively a Christian-Fascist autocracy with a religious Supreme Court weighing in on civil rights, same-sex marriage etc and a weaponised justice system targeting opponents and forcing deportations of non-whites. Russia will be allowed to roll over Ukraine and Europe will be under direct threat of attack by Putin (the GOP’s favourite strong man and ally).

If people enabling a Trump win to teach Biden a lesson think that’s extreme they aren’t paying attention.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025

America (and the World) is in deep, deep shit.

[Jiminy Cricket]

@Alan. I was just catching up on the news about the Supreme Court taking up the appeal. And the ridiculous delay. It is indeed very worrying. And I am with you - whatever shortfalls, even serious shortfalls, we might personally feel about one candidate, it will be a binary choice and one of the candidates is Trump. Voters should not be staying at home in what is surely the most consequential election (ever?) in American history. If you are not a white, white Christofascist, and you stay at home, then you somewhat deserve what comes to you in the event of a Trump win.

[Nobby Reserve]

Then with all due respect they are turkeys voting for Christmas. The Supreme Court granting cert on the Presidential immunity issue and slow walking the process could mean no trial before the election and hands Trump a win. I’d say there’s currently a 50:50 chance that this time next year, America is effectively a Christian-Fascist autocracy with a religious Supreme Court weighing in on civil rights, same-sex marriage etc and a weaponised justice system targeting opponents and forcing deportations of non-whites. Russia will be allowed to roll over Ukraine and Europe will be under direct threat of attack by Putin (the GOP’s favourite strong man and ally).

If people enabling a Trump win to teach Biden a lesson think that’s extreme they aren’t paying attention.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025

America (and the World) is in deep, deep shit.

Agree with everything you say (and would hold my nose and vote Biden if I lived there and wasn't in a safe blue state)

But I do understand the dilemma when you're effectively asking people to vote for someone following a policy that they are vehemently opposed to on a matter that they view as extremely important to them.

How do people exert pressure on politicians/parties to change policy if they just keep voting for them with blind obedience?

[KillieRed]

The other thing about the Supreme Court granting cert is that it’s effectively delayed the trial twice for Trump. Exactly what he wants. They could have granted cert in December when Jack Smith took it to them, instead they opted to punt, and now they want it? We don’t know which members of the court pushed for this, but I think we can guess: starting with the dude whose wife would very probably be made to look like a traitor in the public trial.

[BarryCrocker]

The other thing about the Supreme Court granting cert is that it’s effectively delayed the trial twice for Trump. Exactly what he wants. They could have granted cert in December when Jack Smith took it to them, instead they opted to punt, and now they want it? We don’t know which members of the court pushed for this, but I think we can guess: starting with the dude whose wife would very probably be made to look like a traitor in the public trial.

SCOTUS praying for Trump to win. Alito/Thomas can retire and rake in a shit tonne of money and not worry about anyone asking where the money came from. And then Trump gets to pick two younger conservatives to shape the court for the next 20-25 years.

[KillieRed]

I’d love to see Trumps defeated face again.

[Scottymuser]

Agree with everything you say (and would hold my nose and vote Biden if I lived there and wasn't in a safe blue state)

But I do understand the dilemma when you're effectively asking people to vote for someone following a policy that they are vehemently opposed to on a matter that they view as extremely important to them.

How do people exert pressure on politicians/parties to change policy if they just keep voting for them with blind obedience?

There is no dilemma.  None.  To pretend that there is, over a *single issue* amongst many, when both parties are pro-Israel (and in fact the other Party is FAR FAR more pro-Israel, anti-Palestine - the Dems are only anti-Hamas, but are pro-Palestinian State), to excuse voting for a fascist wannabe dictator is excusing .

There is not "well, maybe Trump won't be as bad as we think he might be" - we know who he and his GOP party is - they  *will* attempt to help Russia invade Ukraine (and more of Eastern Europe), attempt to stop LGBTa marriage and other rights, increase taxes for the poor whilst cutting them for the rich, ban Muslims from the US, attempt to stop all abortion and womens rights, stop minorities from voting, etc etc.

If people feel that strongly that they are willing to overlook all the positive things about the Dems (such as their support of the Ukraine, LGBT and womens rights, better economic performance, lower unemployment, support of the "ordinary" Palestinian) *and* ignore the GOP bending over backwards to support anything Putin and Netanyahu do, as well as all the other things - then frankly, they are stupid.

[Nobby Reserve]

There is no dilemma.  None.  To pretend that there is, over a *single issue* amongst many, when both parties are pro-Israel (and in fact the other Party is FAR FAR more pro-Israel, anti-Palestine - the Dems are only anti-Hamas, but are pro-Palestinian State), to excuse voting for a fascist wannabe dictator is excusing .

There is not "well, maybe Trump won't be as bad as we think he might be" - we know who he and his GOP party is - they  *will* attempt to help Russia invade Ukraine (and more of Eastern Europe), attempt to stop LGBTa marriage and other rights, increase taxes for the poor whilst cutting them for the rich, ban Muslims from the US, attempt to stop all abortion and womens rights, stop minorities from voting, etc etc.

If people feel that strongly that they are willing to overlook all the positive things about the Dems (such as their support of the Ukraine, LGBT and womens rights, better economic performance, lower unemployment, support of the "ordinary" Palestinian) *and* ignore the GOP bending over backwards to support anything Putin and Netanyahu do, as well as all the other things - then frankly, they are stupid.

Yes, yes - that's the broad point I'm generally agreeing with and have made before (about the orange anus and his Repug MAGAwit cultists being far more Zionist-friendly)

That's because in the US, politics is a binary choice.

It doesn't remove the dilemma, though, that you're having to essentially vote for a policy position that is extremely important to you and that you despise and vehemently oppose.

And, equally important, if that party knows you will just blindly vote for them despite that massive problem, then what incentive is there for them to change policy direction?

[Mister Flip Flop]

He won Michigan by 150k last time. There were over 100k uncommitted. I think it’s a concern.

It's okay, they are just protest votes apparently.

[Jiminy Cricket]

Yes, yes - that's the broad point I'm generally agreeing with and have made before (about the orange anus and his Repug MAGAwit cultists being far more Zionist-friendly)

That's because in the US, politics is a binary choice.

It doesn't remove the dilemma, though, that you're having to essentially vote for a policy position that is extremely important to you and that you despise and vehemently oppose.

And, equally important, if that party knows you will just blindly vote for them despite that massive problem, then what incentive is there for them to change policy direction?

There's no real dilemma. Inaction is an action too. So, for people who deliberately do not vote to make a point, they remain responsible for their share in the outcome and all that stems from this. And if this results in a President who is less friendly towards Palestinians, they are responsible for this too.

[Jiminy Cricket]

It's okay, they are just protest votes apparently.

The vote made no difference to the outcome, and those who voted 'uncommitted' understood this. What is unclear is how many previous/naturally Democratic voters to voted 'uncommitted' will come back into the fold. But surely a large proportion of them will when the stakes are real in the presidential election.

[Scottymuser]

Yes, I know that the Supreme Court overturned Roe v Wade in a decision called Dobbs. I know that Trump is taking credit for the decision. Who was the president when Dobbs was decided? What does Restore Roe mean for a Biden supporter? It must have some meaning because that is his backdrop on campaign events.

You are a troll who understands not even what a 3 year old would understand about a Court and the difference between a court and the government.  The decision on Dodds vs Jackson to overturn Roe vs Wade was directly *against* what Biden and every single Democrat wanted at the time, and want now.  The Democratic Party is one of pro-choice; the GOP is one of pro-life.  Stop lying to pretend otherwise.

To put it as simply as I can for you - Roe vs Wade was a Supreme Court case which, basically, said that individual States could not take away the right to abortion on the basis of a "right to privacy" (14th Ammendment), and it meant that the existing laws against abortion were deemed unconstitutional.  To then enact a federal *law* would have required a super majority of 61+ senators (as otherwise, the fillibuster *would* have been used by every single GOP lawmaker) - the Democrats had that for less than 9 months in 2009 under Obama, and insted they focussed on trying to get the most out of the Affordable Care Act (and because Roe vs Wade was "settled case law" - there was no risk on the SC overturning it as all the judges have confirmed that they wouldn't).  You may argue that was rash, and that they should have scrapped the ACA to focus instead of an abortion law "in case" the  Conservative judges changed their mind - that is a matter of opinion.  What isn't is that outside of that 9 month period, is trying to pretend they could have done anything about it.

Therefore, the reason Roe vs Wade is such a big deal for the Democrats and their campaign is that they *are* pro-choice, and they realise that without somehow managing to get that super-majority in the Senate to allow them to ignore filibuster, that Roe vs Wade was the only protection *at federal level* for abortion to stop redneck States in the south from ignoring the popular opinion (which *IS* that abortion should be legal) and restricting access/banning it totally in their State.  Therefore, "Restore Roe" means, to Biden (and the Demoract Party) a way of stopping individual States from banning abortion so that at a  minimum, access to abortion until Xth week is a right for all American women.  Obviously we'd (Biden, the Democrats and the Blue voters) would like to be able to strengthen the right to abortion nationwide by actually passing new laws in Congress to ban States from banning abortion - but we can not ignore the reality that it would be *incredibly* difficult to either win that super majority, OR to persuade GOP senators to break from their leadership and vote with them on the issue.

What I will say, as on other posts you seem to have absolutely no knowledge or understanding of this  - is that the POTUS is not an absolute monarch, they do not have absolute power.  They can not unilaterally decide something and "pass a law" (as you seem to think he can somehow, magically, stop the Netanyahu's killing of ordinary Gaza Palestinians), so trying to hold it against Biden (as you do with him not "stopping" the Gaza crisis) is fucking stupid

[Alan_X]

Snip…
What I will say, as on other posts you seem to have absolutely no knowledge or understanding of this  - is that the POTUS is not an absolute monarch, they do not have absolute power.  They can not unilaterally decide something and "pass a law" (as you seem to think he can somehow, magically, stop the Netanyahu's killing of ordinary Gaza Palestinians), so trying to hold it against Biden (as you do with him not "stopping" the Gaza crisis) is fucking stupid

The irony of course is that the President having the powers of an absolute monarch is effectively what Trump is claiming in his immunity case that’s with the Supreme Court.

[Mister Flip Flop]

The vote made no difference to the outcome, and those who voted 'uncommitted' understood this. What is unclear is how many previous/naturally Democratic voters to voted 'uncommitted' will come back into the fold. But surely a large proportion of them will when the stakes are real in the presidential election.

Yeah just like surely half the American electorate wouldn't vote for Trump to make him president in 2016.

Burying one's head in the sand and hoping things won't happen isn't wise. Biden is a problem for the democrats and ignoring it is going to cost them.

[bigbonedrawky]

is fucking stupid

Sums up the whole system if you ask me.

Seems like your getting a bit angry with people who don't know, what you know... It doesnt make them liars, stupid or trolls though does it.
As for your thoughts on what a 3 year old would understand...    

[SamLad]

Sums up the whole system if you ask me.

Seems like your getting a bit angry with people who don't know, what you know... It doesnt make them liars, stupid or trolls though does it.
As for your thoughts on what a 3 year old would understand...

anyone spouting the gibberish that Mimi spouts deserves all the disrespect they get.  "stupid" doesn't come close.

[jambutty]

He's nailed it all. 

Like me, frustrated trying to talk sense here.

I see desperate Putrid's prints and intel all over this Fani shit.

Manafort and Stone haven't gone away.

[Corkboy]

Yeah just like surely half the American electorate wouldn't vote for Trump to make him president in 2016.

Burying one's head in the sand and hoping things won't happen isn't wise. Biden is a problem for the democrats and ignoring it is going to cost them.

What's your solution?

[jambutty]

Mimi is far from stupid.

She's passionate about issues and she's chosen a side.

Unfortunately, imo, without seeing the big picture.

[Jiminy Cricket]

Yeah just like surely half the American electorate wouldn't vote for Trump to make him president in 2016.

Burying one's head in the sand and hoping things won't happen isn't wise. Biden is a problem for the democrats and ignoring it is going to cost them.

I lived in the US at the time of the 2016 election. I told my American wife in September 2015 that Trump likely would be the Republican candidate and could win the election. She poo-pooed the suggestion. This time round, I think Biden will win, and perhaps quite comfortably. But my views are just opinions and guesses. But unlike you, I understand this.

I suggest that you are letting your fears run away with you. I too fear a Trump win, but I refuse to become hysterical about it.

[Lone Star Red]

He won Michigan by 150k last time. There were over 100k uncommitted. I think it’s a concern.

I don't agree that it's a concern for Biden, but that's a fairer stance than "this is a disaster for Biden, decisions will have to be made and quickly," which is just hyperbolic nonsense.

Like others have said, most of that 100K will either vote for Biden or at worst, not vote at all. And percentage wise, Biden's result in the Michigan primary is quite comparable to Obama's uncommitted vote percentage in Michigan in the 2012 primary.

I could be wrong, but I don't see Biden caving to the more far left fringe in this whole ordeal.

[RJH]

Yes, yes - that's the broad point I'm generally agreeing with and have made before (about the orange anus and his Repug MAGAwit cultists being far more Zionist-friendly)

That's because in the US, politics is a binary choice.

It doesn't remove the dilemma, though, that you're having to essentially vote for a policy position that is extremely important to you and that you despise and vehemently oppose.

And, equally important, if that party knows you will just blindly vote for them despite that massive problem, then what incentive is there for them to change policy direction?

The binary issue is a big part of the problem I think. The Simsons summed it up almost thirty years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WS2Bsq5PDmU

It is difficult to have any kind of protest (non-)vote that is both meaningful and isn't cutting your own nose off.


With a multi-party system there is a decent chance a person can move their vote a party that more closely fits their views. With a two party system, there's a good chance there's only frying pan and fire.

[bigbonedrawky]

anyone spouting the gibberish that Mimi spouts deserves all the disrespect they get.  "stupid" doesn't come close.

I understand why she's angry at Biden and I understand how that can change perceptions and spill over into areas that he's not actually responsible for.

However it's not like his handling of the crisis leaves him smelling of roses does it and by that I mean his own responsibility for his own actions. He forgot about the first casualty of war ie The truth...
He ignored his own advisors and told The World he saw photos of beheaded babies in the immediate aftermath of the Oct 7th attack. Now that makes him either a liar, gullible, stupid or malicious...I get that spreading the hatred of Arabs in the US has been a national pastime for the US these last 20 odd years or so but don't you expect better of him ?
 
Once again his own, all too quick decision to cut funding to the nearest thing to a civilian gov in Gaza ie UNRWA after unverified accusations by the Israelis in reference to a dozen employees out of the 13,000 employees.
That story came from the same liars who told him about beheaded babies "fool me once" springs to mind.
A decision which is leading to famine,and the spread of disease in Gaza... It stinks of collective punishment, gullibility or maybe he is a sociopath after all... I'm not sure  what do you think ?

I get that its easier to dismiss Mimi and call her stupid than it is to address Bidens faults after all whats the alternative...A shit sandwich with red sauce on. 

335,000,000 million to chose from, maybe Scotty's 3 year old might be a better choice after all..  He or she would  get my vote.

Trump drops dead out  Haley becomes first female POTUS...