Author Topic: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?  (Read 334810 times)

Offline Nobby Reserve

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Offline TSC

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #5841 on: February 29, 2024, 05:31:17 pm »
Don’t know how much influence (if any ) the situation in the Middle East will have on the US GE.  It may well resonate with some voters, but I’d guess the majority will vote in accordance with domestic concerns re the economy, etc.

Same here re the UK GE.

Offline skipper757

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #5842 on: February 29, 2024, 07:32:24 pm »
It's a primary protest, but it remains to be seen if it'll impact the election.

As for how likely it is Trump wins, at this point, it boils down to the swing states.  Most other talk is noise barring a new path.  Michigan's primary matters in that context since it is a big swing state.  Trump's more been consolidating his areas of strength as opposed to broadening it.  Maybe younger voters and definitely minorities, but they aren't necessarily in different states outside of swing states.

In Obama's 2012 win, 9 of the 10 closest state margins of victories were won by Obama.  So despite the large electoral vote margin over Romney, there was a pretty compelling path for the GOP to win in 2016 by picking off 3/4 states.  Now, the surprise is how Trump did it.  Instead of going FL/OH/CO/VA/IA/NH, etc, he got the midwest (and in addition to FL and OH).  He and his campaign hinted at doing this in the primary, so it shouldn't have been surprising, but it was against the general thought at the time (that the GOP should go after younger voters, women, minorities, etc but Trump went in a different direction and took on a different path).

For Biden's 2020 win, 6 of the 7 closest state margins of victories were won by Biden.  So once again, there is a path for Trump in going after PA/WI/MI/AZ/NV/GA.  Now, so far, there hasn't been another path identified for him.  The GOP's pretty much given up on college-educated women, and they're trying to go after minority voters (they already did in 2020).  So the path is more set than in 2016.

The question is, barring an unidentified path to victory cropping up, how many of PA/WI/MI/AZ/NV/GA could Trump win?  And can Biden punch a hole in the plan by winning NC?

The House and Senate races will have some more variety and some very interesting states and districts up for grabs.  The presidential race is less so.  But hey, maybe there's another shift we haven't seen yet.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2024, 07:36:12 pm by skipper757 »
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Offline SamLad

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #5843 on: March 1, 2024, 06:53:11 am »
I understand why she's angry at Biden and I understand how that can change perceptions and spill over into areas that he's not actually responsible for.

However it's not like his handling of the crisis leaves him smelling of roses does it and by that I mean his own responsibility for his own actions. He forgot about the first casualty of war ie The truth...
He ignored his own advisors and told The World he saw photos of beheaded babies in the immediate aftermath of the Oct 7th attack. Now that makes him either a liar, gullible, stupid or malicious...I get that spreading the hatred of Arabs in the US has been a national pastime for the US these last 20 odd years or so but don't you expect better of him ?
 
Once again his own, all too quick decision to cut funding to the nearest thing to a civilian gov in Gaza ie UNRWA after unverified accusations by the Israelis in reference to a dozen employees out of the 13,000 employees.
That story came from the same liars who told him about beheaded babies "fool me once" springs to mind.
A decision which is leading to famine,and the spread of disease in Gaza... It stinks of collective punishment, gullibility or maybe he is a sociopath after all... I'm not sure  ??? what do you think ?

I get that its easier to dismiss Mimi and call her stupid than it is to address Bidens faults after all whats the alternative...A shit sandwich with red sauce on. 

335,000,000 million to chose from, maybe Scotty's 3 year old might be a better choice after all..  He or she would  get my vote.

Trump drops dead out  Haley becomes first female POTUS...

It doesn't matter what Mimi's motivation is, Biden isn't (a) responsible for the decisions made by another sovereign country or (b) able to control decisions made by SCOTUS.

but s/he continues to complain over and over that Bidenis responsible for Dobbs, and should stop the Israelis in Gaza - accusing him of not doing things he has no way of doing.  THAT is stupid.

Offline Mister Flip Flop

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #5844 on: March 1, 2024, 11:49:45 am »
What's your solution?

I'd push Biden out the door and run Michelle Obama. She's intelligent, young and has the X factor required to win and to do the job  That would be a guaranteed win right there for the democrats. Biden as well as being a war monger intent on selling arms to Israel to kill innocent children is ancient and needs to step aside. I'll be honest, i'm terrified that Trump will get back in and action needs to be taken.
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Offline Mister Flip Flop

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #5845 on: March 1, 2024, 11:51:21 am »
I lived in the US at the time of the 2016 election. I told my American wife in September 2015 that Trump likely would be the Republican candidate and could win the election. She poo-pooed the suggestion. This time round, I think Biden will win, and perhaps quite comfortably. But my views are just opinions and guesses. But unlike you, I understand this.

I suggest that you are letting your fears run away with you. I too fear a Trump win, but I refuse to become hysterical about it.

If Trump winning doesn't make you hysterical then i don't know what to say. He's literally worse than Hitler and the climate is fcuked if he wins.
Soccer - let's face it, its not really about a game of ball anymore is it?

Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #5846 on: March 1, 2024, 12:07:55 pm »
If Trump winning doesn't make you hysterical then i don't know what to say. He's literally worse than Hitler and the climate is fcuked if he wins.
Case in point:
I'd push Biden out the door and run Michelle Obama. She's intelligent, young and has the X factor required to win and to do the job  That would be a guaranteed win right there for the democrats. Biden as well as being a war monger intent on selling arms to Israel to kill innocent children is ancient and needs to step aside. I'll be honest, i'm terrified that Trump will get back in and action needs to be taken.
You are letting your imagination, dreams, and yes, fears, run away with you. Michelle Obama has no direct experience in politics (proper), and has no interest in involving herself in politics. She's great, but there is no reason to suppose that she would make a good President. And the idea that she would win a presidential election is supposition based upon your feelings.
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Offline KillieRed

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #5847 on: March 1, 2024, 12:16:46 pm »
I'd push Biden out the door and run Michelle Obama. She's intelligent, young and has the X factor required to win and to do the job  That would be a guaranteed win right there for the democrats. Biden as well as being a war monger intent on selling arms to Israel to kill innocent children is ancient and needs to step aside. I'll be honest, i'm terrified that Trump will get back in and action needs to be taken.

It’s not that easy to push the head of your party out the door, much less a sitting president. Biden has beaten Trump before. The situation is fraught, but Trump has not extended his base and, obviously, Biden is much less of a worry than Trump. The electoral college is the problem, but I can’t see independents rushing to the orange one.
The big issue is, of course, his stance on Gaza. He could cut off Israel today if he wanted, but won’t. I can only assume the Israel-lobby is very powerful.
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Offline Corkboy

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #5848 on: March 1, 2024, 12:26:04 pm »
I'd push Biden out the door and run Michelle Obama. She's intelligent, young and has the X factor required to win and to do the job  That would be a guaranteed win right there for the democrats. Biden as well as being a war monger intent on selling arms to Israel to kill innocent children is ancient and needs to step aside. I'll be honest, i'm terrified that Trump will get back in and action needs to be taken.

She hates politics. There is no way she would run.

Offline Riquende

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #5849 on: March 1, 2024, 12:38:00 pm »
Case in point:You are letting your imagination, dreams, and yes, fears, run away with you. Michelle Obama has no direct experience in politics (proper), and has no interest in involving herself in politics. She's great, but there is no reason to suppose that she would make a good President. And the idea that she would win a presidential election is supposition based upon your feelings.

Looking at it from the other end I would also say that there's no way for the Democrats to "Push Biden out the door" in a way that doesn't damage the party itself and harm their electoral chances, whomever ended up with the nod.

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Offline Scottymuser

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #5850 on: March 1, 2024, 12:55:38 pm »
It's a primary protest, but it remains to be seen if it'll impact the election.

As for how likely it is Trump wins, at this point, it boils down to the swing states.  Most other talk is noise barring a new path.  Michigan's primary matters in that context since it is a big swing state.  Trump's more been consolidating his areas of strength as opposed to broadening it.  Maybe younger voters and definitely minorities, but they aren't necessarily in different states outside of swing states.

In Obama's 2012 win, 9 of the 10 closest state margins of victories were won by Obama.  So despite the large electoral vote margin over Romney, there was a pretty compelling path for the GOP to win in 2016 by picking off 3/4 states.  Now, the surprise is how Trump did it.  Instead of going FL/OH/CO/VA/IA/NH, etc, he got the midwest (and in addition to FL and OH).  He and his campaign hinted at doing this in the primary, so it shouldn't have been surprising, but it was against the general thought at the time (that the GOP should go after younger voters, women, minorities, etc but Trump went in a different direction and took on a different path).

For Biden's 2020 win, 6 of the 7 closest state margins of victories were won by Biden.  So once again, there is a path for Trump in going after PA/WI/MI/AZ/NV/GA.  Now, so far, there hasn't been another path identified for him.  The GOP's pretty much given up on college-educated women, and they're trying to go after minority voters (they already did in 2020).  So the path is more set than in 2016.

The question is, barring an unidentified path to victory cropping up, how many of PA/WI/MI/AZ/NV/GA could Trump win?  And can Biden punch a hole in the plan by winning NC?

The House and Senate races will have some more variety and some very interesting states and districts up for grabs.  The presidential race is less so.  But hey, maybe there's another shift we haven't seen yet.

So,  looking at margins, AZ and GA had margins of around 10k-11k in 2020 for Biden, so are probably seen as the most likely to switch; on the flip side to that is since 2020, AZ has had a deeply unpopular DINO/Independent Senator (Sinema) who the Dems will want to turn out to get rid of and in GA Stacey Abrams has done a phenomenal job at increase black and minority voter registrations (and turnout).  Even then, they only havce 27 EVs combined, so flipping both would still leave Biden with a healthy majority in the EV.   The next 2 are WI (majority of 21k) and NV (majority of 34k) - flipping both would give Trump the win with 16 extra EVs (but flipping just one would not). 

MI and PA look more off the table, for now, I'd argue - majorities of 154k and 81k are sizeable enough, but possible?  Both are Blue States though historically (large margins of victory for Obama both times, for Cliton both times AND against Bush both times) so the 2016 performance of Trump in the two could be seen as more a flash in the pan.  North Carolina on the other hand had a Trump margin of 74k, so similar status I'd argue in terms of on/off the table. 

The other thing to consider is the issue of abortion - a number of the Purple States will (hopefully) have abortion on the paper, with the Dems supporting it and the Repugs not - so that would encourage "maybe stay at home" voters to turn out, and then hopefully vote Biden (instead of spoiling their paper).

Offline Lone Star Red

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #5851 on: March 1, 2024, 03:31:36 pm »
If Trump winning doesn't make you hysterical then i don't know what to say. He's literally worse than Hitler and the climate is fcuked if he wins.

Trying to figure out if I'm being whooshed.
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Offline filopastry

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #5852 on: March 1, 2024, 03:38:07 pm »
So,  looking at margins, AZ and GA had margins of around 10k-11k in 2020 for Biden, so are probably seen as the most likely to switch; on the flip side to that is since 2020, AZ has had a deeply unpopular DINO/Independent Senator (Sinema) who the Dems will want to turn out to get rid of and in GA Stacey Abrams has done a phenomenal job at increase black and minority voter registrations (and turnout).  Even then, they only havce 27 EVs combined, so flipping both would still leave Biden with a healthy majority in the EV.   The next 2 are WI (majority of 21k) and NV (majority of 34k) - flipping both would give Trump the win with 16 extra EVs (but flipping just one would not). 

MI and PA look more off the table, for now, I'd argue - majorities of 154k and 81k are sizeable enough, but possible?  Both are Blue States though historically (large margins of victory for Obama both times, for Cliton both times AND against Bush both times) so the 2016 performance of Trump in the two could be seen as more a flash in the pan.  North Carolina on the other hand had a Trump margin of 74k, so similar status I'd argue in terms of on/off the table. 

The other thing to consider is the issue of abortion - a number of the Purple States will (hopefully) have abortion on the paper, with the Dems supporting it and the Repugs not - so that would encourage "maybe stay at home" voters to turn out, and then hopefully vote Biden (instead of spoiling their paper).

A lot of polls have Biden trailing in most of the swing states at present sadly, its a completely bizarre race, if it was tomorrow, sadly I think Trump would win relatively comfortably (by US standards anyway), still got a lot of time to run and the Dems should be able to outspend Trump, but I am concerned with how stubbornly bad Biden's ratings have been for a fair while now.

Offline KillieRed

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #5853 on: March 1, 2024, 03:45:41 pm »
Trying to figure out if I'm being whooshed.

Trump is an awful human being, but that is quite the claim.
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Offline Scottymuser

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #5854 on: March 1, 2024, 04:21:14 pm »
A lot of polls have Biden trailing in most of the swing states at present sadly, its a completely bizarre race, if it was tomorrow, sadly I think Trump would win relatively comfortably (by US standards anyway), still got a lot of time to run and the Dems should be able to outspend Trump, but I am concerned with how stubbornly bad Biden's ratings have been for a fair while now.

The issue is that the polls methodology could be skewed - certainly from what I've seen, the majority of polls are still done via the telephone, especially to landlines - so skew older.  We saw that in 2022 - the majority of polls on the ground level, especially in Purple States, were predicting a large "Red Wave" in the House AND Senate - in reality, they lost 1 seat in the Senate and flipped just *5* House seats - due to the polls being inherently slightly Red skewed.

Looking at some of the polls on 538 - the number of people are no more than 1000 ever.  Michigan has results ranging from even, to Trump by 3ish points (so within margin of error) with 10-20% unanswered or other candidates most likely to be left leaning choices  (Kennedy, Stein).  And as I said, given the undecided (*or others*), come Nov with abortion issues on the ballot, and the Dems spending more vs Trump on messaging to get voters to turn out (and Taylor Swift of course doing likewise), I think it will be a different picture,

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #5855 on: March 1, 2024, 04:31:08 pm »
Pressgang Michelle to bring down Hitler!

There's no other choice!

Kill the humourless

Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #5856 on: March 1, 2024, 05:08:14 pm »
Trying to figure out if I'm being whooshed.
FFS. I responded to the post from @mister flip flop, but I was focussed on the first sentence and missed the Hitler comment. Unfortunately, no, I do not believe you are 'being whooshed'.
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Offline Boston always unofficial

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #5857 on: March 1, 2024, 07:37:06 pm »

Offline Studgotelli

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #5858 on: March 1, 2024, 08:06:51 pm »
:lmao goodness me

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #5860 on: March 1, 2024, 11:32:05 pm »
The issue is that the polls methodology could be skewed - certainly from what I've seen, the majority of polls are still done via the telephone, especially to landlines - so skew older.  We saw that in 2022 - the majority of polls on the ground level, especially in Purple States, were predicting a large "Red Wave" in the House AND Senate - in reality, they lost 1 seat in the Senate and flipped just *5* House seats - due to the polls being inherently slightly Red skewed.

Looking at some of the polls on 538 - the number of people are no more than 1000 ever.  Michigan has results ranging from even, to Trump by 3ish points (so within margin of error) with 10-20% unanswered or other candidates most likely to be left leaning choices  (Kennedy, Stein).  And as I said, given the undecided (*or others*), come Nov with abortion issues on the ballot, and the Dems spending more vs Trump on messaging to get voters to turn out (and Taylor Swift of course doing likewise), I think it will be a different picture,

Yet you look at polling for someone like Whitmer in Michigan and the numbers look great it's just Biden's numbers that look pretty awful.

I mean it may be the case that all of the polls are skewing against Biden but pollsters do try to adjust for that when they identify issues. I wouldn't want to be banking on that alone come November.

Bizarrely for all the madness, Trump's approval ratings seem to be slowly getting less awful, although still pretty dire, Biden's are still bumping along the bottom sadly.

As you say most of a year left and plenty of time for things to change, but it doesn't feel a great starting spot.

Offline GreatEx

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #5861 on: March 2, 2024, 06:10:46 am »
Can those with their finger on the pulse comment on how likely it is that Project 2025 would be implemented to any substantial degree in a Trump Part Durr presidency?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025

It sounds catastrophically awful, reminds me in a way of the New American Century plan that Bush Jr's entourage were into, which did get at least partially implemented (and which, sadly, seems quite benign when you read it in today's climate). But obviously replacing the entire apparatus of government seems like a very difficult plan to pull off. I don't even know why Trump would be into it: I mean, he clearly had little understanding of how government works and shows no aptitude or enthusiasm for learning, so why would he seek responsibility for everything?

Anyway, if there's even a skerrick of realism to this plan then it should be required reading for anyone considering abandoning Biden for the crime of maintain the default US position on Israel since its conception.

Offline Mimi

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #5862 on: March 2, 2024, 07:48:03 am »
It doesn't matter what Mimi's motivation is, Biden isn't (a) responsible for the decisions made by another sovereign country or (b) able to control decisions made by SCOTUS. but s/he continues to complain over and over that Bidenis responsible for Dobbs, and should stop the Israelis in Gaza - accusing him of not doing things he has no way of doing.  THAT is stupid.

I am a she.

I said that Biden was the president when Dobbs was passed; not that he was responsible for Dobbs. It's damning that a Democrat was the president was the right to abortion was lost. Protecting abortion was probably the primary reason to elect Biden. He was required to be bold about abortion. Advocates were pressing him to take any and all steps to protect abortion given that they knew the Republican lead court would rule on it asap. At the beginning of his presidency, he had to be talked into carving out exceptions to the filibuster. Which ultimately defeated the Women's Protection Health Act.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/joe-biden-can-barely-say-abortion-can-he-lead-on-it

Quote
For 468 days, supporters of Roe v. Wade called on President Joe Biden to say the word “abortion.” Once he finally did, however, some of them almost wished he hadn’t.


Quote
Biden’s use of the phrase “abort a child”—as well as his near-exclusive preference for language about “women’s health” or “reproductive choice” or making “Roe the law of the land”—reflects career-long discomfort discussing abortion, one longtime adviser told The Daily Beast.

Quote
The administration has redirected nearly all questions about the president’s personal feelings on abortion to matter-of-fact recitation of his policies on the issue and has aggressively shut down questions about whether the use of the phrase “abort a child” undermines those positions.

Incidentally, I'm also a church-going Catholic. Abortion is not the be all and end all for me. I actually don't even have an issue with abortion. Polls have shown that most American Catholics are in favour of abortion rights. To me it's more damning that Biden has never referenced his Catholicism when speaking of his actions in Gaza.

Anyways, the way forward on abortion is to expand the courts, which Biden will also not do.

https://www.thenation.com/article/society/to-preserve-abortion-rights-biden-must-expand-court/

Quote
Blaming Trump as the one true villain may feel satisfying—and it probably makes political sense—but it also allows Biden to avoid talking about the real problem and lets him and the senators running on his coattails sidestep the only real solution: expanding the Supreme Court. There is simply nothing the elected branches of government—the president and Congress—can do to “restore Roe” without expanding the Supreme Court. Legislation and executive orders are of no use in the face of an extremist Republican judiciary willing to prohibit care and let people who are pregnant die.

You cannot be for abortion rights but against the Supreme Court’s expansion anymore. The two are now inextricably linked. Biden and other establishment Democrats are essentially lying to you when they pretend that they can restore through legislation what the court took by fiat. Either we expand the Supreme Court and break the conservative supermajority, or we accept that women and pregnant people are second-class citizens who will lack equal access to healthcare for a generation. That is the world we live in, and the people who deny it are selling you a fantasy.

The Biden administration’s new “actions” to protect reproductive rights—offered on the 51st anniversary of the Roe decision—show just how useless executive power is on this issue as long as conservatives control the courts. The administration announced plans to expand access to contraceptives under the Affordable Care Act, which is good. But the announcement didn’t include plans to expand access to mifepristone, one of the key drugs in the most widely used method for terminating pregnancies. And that’s because the Supreme Court is poised to make a major ruling on this pill, which would supersede any access to the medication that Biden might like to provide.

Quote
Look, I get that Trump is the easier target. He’s the perfect poster boy for the misogyny and filth that animate conservative rulings against reproductive rights. And I get that in our low-information, attention-deficient, celebrity-obsessed society, pretending that a president can single-handedly “restore Roe” is perhaps a necessary fiction. But abortion rights and access to lifesaving reproductive care will never again be allowed in the United States as long as conservative justices are allowed to control the Supreme Court.

On Gaza, the reason why I say Biden is responsible is because he's authorized the only US funding to Israel since October 7th using his executive order. The House and Senate are too dysfunctional to authorize funding. He has refused to use this same power to fund Ukraine. Without Biden's funds, there is no genocide.

It's offensive to claim he has no responsibility. Please watch the press briefings where his Sean Spicer equivalents try and deflect the press. It's absolutely ridiculous to claim that Biden has no influence over Israel.

He has lied for Israel on numerous occasions and has been forced to walk back the lies. His lies have weight. He knows damn well that his funding of the Israelis contravenes American law that the funds cannot be used to purchase weapons that are used for actions contravening international law. Biden has given Israel until mid-March to provide written reassurances that they are compliant with international law. He has floated a temporary ceasefire by this Monday while instructing his UN representatives to veto 3 immediate ceasefires. He has vetoed a UN Security Council statement on Israel being responsible for the flour bag massacre. He is now reduced to promising air drops for food while giving Israel billions in dollars for weapons.

Quote
After a closed emergency meeting of the UN Security Council on the deaths of more than 100 Palestinians who were waiting for food aid, the US remained the only nation to deny the UN Security Council the right to make a statement to blame Israel for the deaths. The draft statement was brought to the UN Security Council by Algeria, and although it was rejected, it must be noted that the UK had chosen to be in favour of the draft rather than abstaining from a decision as they did with all of the ceasefire votes. 

So fuck him. This week's horrific images were Israelis firing on people waiting for flour with the video of human beings appearing as ants, more children dying of starvation and a zip-tied Gazan being interrogated and then crushed to death by a bulldozer. We can't Zone of Interest our way out of this horror. Our ability to ignore this is affecting our daily lives by making us more inhuman.

Biden fucking knows it. The coward:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/joe-biden/biden-aides-shield-president-pro-palestinian-protests-rcna141251

Quote
WASHINGTON — President Joe Biden’s team is increasingly taking extraordinary steps to minimize disruptions from pro-Palestinian protests at his events by making them smaller, withholding their precise locations from the media and the public until he arrives, avoiding college campuses and, in at least one instance, considering hiring a private company to vet attendees.

The efforts have resulted in zero disruptions at events the White House or the campaign have organized for Biden in the five weeks since he was interrupted a dozen times during an abortion rights speech in Virginia. But they have also meant that Biden is appearing in front of fewer voters and not personally engaging with some of the key constituencies whose support he is struggling to gain, such as young voters.

For people who thinks this is not filtering down to the average joe - go to any march or protest and be amazed by how many average joes are attending with their kids and dogs. I live in the most redneck of provinces (the Canadian equivalent of Texas). The two big cities have held regular marches from October, but now marches are starting to appear in the most hick of towns in the middle of winter. I have yet to experience an overtly negative reaction from regular people though we disrupt them and inconvenience them (mainly blocking traffic on main roads). The most threatening thing about a march is the police presence.

Uncommitted is the biggest gift to the Democrats. I wish that was an option for me. It will get people out to vote Democrat down ballot while signaling clear disapproval over the monster at the top.

It would also be great if the men in this thread would refrain from calling me an idiot or a troll. You don't agree with me, but there is support for my views from actual experts in these fields - legal experts, abortion experts, foreign policy experts and actual people in Gaza. I encourage you to read and expand your minds on these issues. I put the links so you can read their thoughts directly as admittedly my way of expressing is somewhat crude.


« Last Edit: March 2, 2024, 07:56:38 am by Mimi »
"And Israeli aggression will continue unabated. BDS. Armed struggle. Peace talks. Protests. Tweets. Social media. Poetry. All are terror in Israel’s books.” Refaat Alareer
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Offline Mister Flip Flop

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #5863 on: March 2, 2024, 08:07:53 am »
I am a she.

I said that Biden was the president when Dobbs was passed; not that he was responsible for Dobbs. It's damning that a Democrat was the president was the right to abortion was lost. Protecting abortion was probably the primary reason to elect Biden. He was required to be bold about abortion. Advocates were pressing him to take any and all steps to protect abortion given that they knew the Republican lead court would rule on it asap. At the beginning of his presidency, he had to be talked into carving out exceptions to the filibuster. Which ultimately defeated the Women's Protection Health Act.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/joe-biden-can-barely-say-abortion-can-he-lead-on-it
 

Incidentally, I'm also a church-going Catholic. Abortion is not the be all and end all for me. I actually don't even have an issue with abortion. Polls have shown that most American Catholics are in favour of abortion rights. To me it's more damning that Biden has never referenced his Catholicism when speaking of his actions in Gaza.

Anyways, the way forward on abortion is to expand the courts, which Biden will also not do.

https://www.thenation.com/article/society/to-preserve-abortion-rights-biden-must-expand-court/

On Gaza, the reason why I say Biden is responsible is because he's authorized the only US funding to Israel since October 7th using his executive order. The House and Senate are too dysfunctional to authorize funding. He has refused to use this same power to fund Ukraine. Without Biden's funds, there is no genocide.

It's offensive to claim he has no responsibility. Please watch the press briefings where his Sean Spicer equivalents try and deflect the press. It's absolutely ridiculous to claim that Biden has no influence over Israel.

He has lied for Israel on numerous occasions and has been forced to walk back the lies. His lies have weight. He knows damn well that his funding of the Israelis contravenes American law that the funds cannot be used to purchase weapons that are used for actions contravening international law. Biden has given Israel until mid-March to provide written reassurances that they are compliant with international law. He has floated a temporary ceasefire by this Monday while instructing his UN representatives to veto 3 immediate ceasefires. He has vetoed a UN Security Council statement on Israel being responsible for the flour bag massacre. He is now reduced to promising air drops for food while giving Israel billions in dollars for weapons.

So fuck him. This week's horrific images were Israelis firing on people waiting for flour with the video of human beings appearing as ants, more children dying of starvation and a zip-tied Gazan being interrogated and then crushed to death by a bulldozer. We can't Zone of Interest our way out of this horror. Our ability to ignore this is affecting our daily lives by making us more inhuman.

Biden fucking knows it. The coward:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/joe-biden/biden-aides-shield-president-pro-palestinian-protests-rcna141251

For people who thinks this is not filtering down to the average joe - go to any march or protest and be amazed by how many average joes are attending with their kids and dogs. I live in the most redneck of provinces (the Canadian equivalent of Texas). The two big cities have held regular marches from October, but now marches are starting to appear in the most hick of towns in the middle of winter. I have yet to experience an overtly negative reaction from regular people though we disrupt them and inconvenience them (mainly blocking traffic on main roads). The most threatening thing about a march is the police presence.

Uncommitted is the biggest gift to the Democrats. I wish that was an option for me. It will get people out to vote Democrat down ballot while signaling clear disapproval over the monster at the top.

It would also be great if the men in this thread would refrain from calling me an idiot or a troll. You don't agree with me, but there is support for my views from actual experts in these fields - legal experts, abortion experts, foreign policy experts and actual people in Gaza. I encourage you to read and expand your minds on these issues. I put the links so you can read their thoughts directly as admittedly my way of expressing is somewhat crude.

Unfortunately there is no debating with some people here about Biden, they see no bad in him whatsoever. They are as deluded as the idiots who religiously follow the orange buffoon.

There was one poster who called him a "decent guy at heart" whilst he continued to send weapons to blow little children to bits in Gaza. The man is a humongous gobshite.
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Offline The_Nomad

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #5864 on: March 2, 2024, 08:18:18 am »
In my opinion, one of the reasons the Dems will probably lose the presidency is that they’re unwilling to sink to the depths that the other side have been occupying since the Reagan era. Anti science, anti democracy, anti decency; you name it, the repugnants own it. They aren’t ashamed either because their base EXPECTS them to do anything to obtain or stay in power. The fact that SCOTUS has now decided to jump in elbows deep for the orange shit stain should come as no surprise. The fact that there are still decent people on the left who expect their leaders to reflect their values is why the Dems are going to lose. All this taking the high road when the other side isn’t bothered in the slightest is what’s going to cost the Dems dearly.
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Offline jambutty

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #5865 on: March 2, 2024, 08:59:29 am »

There was one poster who called him a "decent guy at heart" whilst he continued to send weapons to blow little children to bits in Gaza. The man is a humongous gobshite.

And you, sir, are a dolt.

And have proven it many times.
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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #5866 on: March 2, 2024, 09:41:57 am »
If you don't vote because of the slaughter and end up with Trump again, you are all c*nts who'll get what you deserve, sadly other countries that suffer more because of those c*nts.

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Offline Mister Flip Flop

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #5867 on: March 2, 2024, 09:55:57 am »
And you, sir, are a dolt.

And have proven it many times.

Name calling, that's all you have. Sad..
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Offline fowlermagic

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #5868 on: March 2, 2024, 10:09:03 am »
If you don't vote because of the slaughter and end up with Trump again, you are all c*nts who'll get what you deserve, sadly other countries that suffer more because of those c*nts.



The average American doesn't even know where Gaza is and only spends a second most days thinking about international wars or politics. They definitely won't be swayed to vote either way just because of some conflict six thousand miles away as they are pretty much worried about the price of food, petrol and any other bills coming in the mail. The vast majority will vote the same way their parents have especially in the middle of the country and those that register a protest vote because of Gaza are probably kids who don't have any real life worries and are still living on their parents credit cards. That might be a bit harsh but if you are lying in bed worried about the world ending by 2030 due to environmental pollution or hash tagging whatever trending then you will soon wake up realising there is more immediate issues that will be on your plate like finding a place to rent, buy, find a job that won't be replaced by AI in the next decade. Long story short people will vote on the issues outside their front door that keep getting banged on about the "news" media they are watching. Honestly think the vast majority under 35 doesn't even watch the news anymore
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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #5869 on: March 2, 2024, 10:13:53 am »


You're right.

I apologise.

You have no idea about America or it's politics and seem to have an infantile view of what is possible and what is not.
Kill the humourless

Offline jambutty

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #5870 on: March 2, 2024, 10:41:33 am »
I'd like to thank scotty, skipper and surfer for giving me a reason to keep reading this thread.


Bill Maher, Blue Jar Democrat:  Would rather see Biden's head in a jar of blue liquid as President than Trump.
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Offline surfer. Fuck you generator.

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #5871 on: March 2, 2024, 11:43:57 pm »
That's fine, jambutty. There's a lot of good information on the mentality, priorities of ostensible 'citizens', that you get when conflict is afoot. Generally speaking, observe, take it all in, and make sure the next generation of this trash stays out. I say this as a non-white ( as in non pasty, how do you put this, have been mistaken from anything to an Italian to a North African   ;D )who has seen both the good and bad, racism etc of white majority countries: there's still room to work with, find solutions, grow. On the other hand, the only way is straight down to economic destitution with decades long professional victims as the majority in a religion centric setting. Keep Trump out, work on getting rid of the conjob Christian cancer in the south, rework immigration to only let in those with a focus on improving your country in a secular, results based mentality. If the centrist, left parties don't own this, then the right will be in power for years, that's it. Looking at the poor quality on the right, you will not have a good resolution, just a lot of noise, unneeded suffering, and profiteering on these issues.
« Last Edit: March 2, 2024, 11:54:44 pm by surfer. Fuck you generator. »

Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #5872 on: March 3, 2024, 10:22:55 am »
In my opinion, one of the reasons the Dems will probably lose the presidency is that they’re unwilling to sink to the depths that the other side have been occupying since the Reagan era. Anti science, anti democracy, anti decency; you name it, the repugnants own it. They aren’t ashamed either because their base EXPECTS them to do anything to obtain or stay in power. The fact that SCOTUS has now decided to jump in elbows deep for the orange shit stain should come as no surprise. The fact that there are still decent people on the left who expect their leaders to reflect their values is why the Dems are going to lose. All this taking the high road when the other side isn’t bothered in the slightest is what’s going to cost the Dems dearly.

It happened after Reagan.  W was still a traditional Republican, but the movement was already there that shifted his stance on climate change.

Bush was pro action on climate change, but was leaned on by the fossil fuel industry and movement that was created by them.  Environmental protection was still pretty strong, under W.

The GOP now, is a completely different party, to what is was.

Offline fowlermagic

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #5873 on: March 4, 2024, 02:16:49 pm »
It happened after Reagan.  W was still a traditional Republican, but the movement was already there that shifted his stance on climate change.

Bush was pro action on climate change, but was leaned on by the fossil fuel industry and movement that was created by them.  Environmental protection was still pretty strong, under W.

The GOP now, is a completely different party, to what is was.

I say both parties get leaned on a lot by the lobbyists in Washington as while the Republican party maybe anti environment, the Dems couldn't claim they are surging forward with the fight against pollution. Of course they are ten times better than Trump but any progress seems to be at snail pace as the oil, gas and coal companies still have great sway even with Biden. Certain state representative have to tread lightly when it comes to pushing the green agenda as the average voter is more worried about the price of gas. They have been banging on about the oil crisis one after another since the 70s which tells you enough about their priority to go more green.
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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #5874 on: March 4, 2024, 03:12:41 pm »
Hate to say it, but it feels like Trump is going to win. Think Biden's position on Israel/Palestine will dissuade a lot of voters under 30 from even voting for president.
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Offline Caligula?

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #5875 on: March 4, 2024, 03:41:18 pm »
Hate to say it, but it feels like Trump is going to win. Think Biden's position on Israel/Palestine will dissuade a lot of voters under 30 from even voting for president.

Which will in turn allow a guy into office who would probably gleefully watch the total annihilation of Palestine. From a Party that's 100% on board as well.

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #5876 on: March 4, 2024, 03:45:59 pm »
Which will in turn allow a guy into office who would probably gleefully watch the total annihilation of Palestine. From a Party that's 100% on board as well.
I don't agree with the approach, but seems like many will go down this route. They’d rather stick it the Dems and hope they look inwards to make change.
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Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #5877 on: March 4, 2024, 03:51:00 pm »
I've more faith in the u30s than you.
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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #5878 on: March 4, 2024, 04:01:39 pm »
I've more faith in the u30s than you.
Maybe. I just don’t think you can underestimate the effect Biden’s approach on Palestine has had on younger voters.

If it means anything, I live in a swing state, with many people I know leaning towards not voting. The fact he’s turning away historically democratic voters is worrisome. I know others in strong red states who are taking the same approach, but their votes won’t matter as much.
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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #5879 on: March 4, 2024, 05:58:25 pm »
18-30(ish) year olds not showing up to vote is a tale as old as time, isn't it?
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