Topic: PL: Liverpool 0 vs 1 Burnley ‘83 Barnes (p)

[LFC_NCL]

another small detail to consider when we start kicking off over poor form, we are the champions, 1 point of back to back titles, if this squad doesnt get a hall pass for a few games when half of them are fucked, then we don't deserve this team or the manager, just fucking enjoy it, its only football

[Bend It Like Aurelio]

After a day’s thoughts, not as bothered about the result as an was yesterday. We did create a lot of chances and had a ton of shots. Nick Pope has a great game, and Ashley Barnes was lucky to stay on. I suppose the fact I s this game was attached to a poor run of form and so the performance will obviously be lumped in with the rest. But he have performed better, though obviously we are still on a down cycle of form.

It’s a crisis in confidence. I think the coaching staff will have to come up with different strategies to reenergize the players. One thing which I think worked in our favour against Palace was that we had Mane playing on the right and Minamino playing on the left. I’d like to see us return to something like that, something that allows our front three to try out new things instead of constantly trying the same thing over and over again.

[Dull Tools]

Origi miss was shocking

And at the same time very unlucky.

[AshbourneRed]

And at the same time very unlucky.

What was unlucky about it? He made the chance much more difficult than it needed to be by going for the top corner. It was an awful miss.

[darragh85]

Not sure it's about confidence either. Maybe it can manifest into that the more bad result. We are league champions, champions league winners 2 seasons ago and were on the back of hammering crystal Palace 7 0.

It's down to physical and mental tiredness. The decline in the quality of our decision making is a sure sign of that I feel. Minds are just not working quick enough, reactions are off, etc.

[AshbourneRed]

Does my head in that players get a penalty for kicking the ball out of play like that and then falling over the keeper but the likes of a player taking a shot like Mane getting taken out after the shot and nothing ever happens. What is the difference?

[scouseman]

Last two seasons have been amazing as a Liverpool fan. We ran away with the league title last season so we decided to test ourselves by giving the rest a 6 point head start. We will be back keep the faith everyone. It will be even sweeter this season when we win the league again because we have done so though harder times. The mighty reds will rise again like flames of hope in these hard times. We are LFC. It is all we know.

[killer-heels]

Is there a pre-United press conference today?

[Big Dirk]

We are obviously missing big Virgil what with his excellent one on one defending,his 60 yard radar passes starting attacks up from to back,his threat from corners in the opponents box but for me the biggest quality we are missing of his is his leadership....I looked all over the pitch last night and I just felt we missed that leadership on the pitch especially with Hendo missing.

[Dim Glas]

Is there a pre-United press conference today?

at 1.30

[Bird Bird Bird The Bird Is The Word]

Despite his miss, I'd echo shouts for Origi getting a run in the side as the central forward. His tendency to run the channels, work himself into shooting positions, and hit the ball with conviction is sorely missed. Finishing that chance would've down him the world of good so I hope he isn't disheartened by it, overall it was a positive performance from him. Bobby could do with having some time out of spotlight, I think he'd be better for it.

[wige]

Could see it coming when Origi hit the bar. Last two seasons that's hitting it and bouncing into roof of net, or flying up in the air and being dropped by a shit goalkeeper for someone to nod in.

Right now everything is off, we're unbalanced, out of form, low on confidence, not settled, missing players. Not sure there's a quick fix. Everyone, fans included, need to keep their heads, stick together and fight through it.

It's the halfway point and whilst things aren't looking good (or even average you could argue) there's a long way to go and pretty much everything to fight for. If it ends in a really disappointing way - then so be it. Write it off, recover and hopefully come back to full, vaccinated, stadiums and some semblance of normality next season.

I'm just gutted for the lads that they never got the huge public admiration for their superhuman, record breaking efforts last season.

[Golyo]

Does my head in that players get a penalty for kicking the ball out of play like that and then falling over the keeper but the likes of a player taking a shot like Mane getting taken out after the shot and nothing ever happens. What is the difference?

Colour of the shirt, mostly.

[kasperoff]

I think there are only few ways to crack “bus Parkers”. First, u must have players who can shoot from outside the box with power and accuracy. Gerrard, Torres, Suarez type. Anything within 30-40 yards are chances to try pop a shot. We have none today. Closest is Ox and Trent. Both are playing without much confidence today. Second, we must have players who can take the ball and run at defenders into the box. Either we get a penalty if trip or create enough havoc and confusion in the box. Any deflections can easily be converted too. Only Mane is trying this. No one else is forcing himself into the box.  Third, u have a big strong striker that can turn set pieces into goals. Crosses will be effective too. Our strikers are not big or burly like Andy Carroll or VVD type. Lastly, going down the bye lines with simple one twos at speed to get in from behind. We don’t do that. We cross very early. Especially Trent and Salah who cannot get to the byeline or beat any man on the right side.  Early crosses with not many forwards in the box just get cleared easily.

So “bus Parker’s” find it easy to play us. Cause we don’t use any of these options to pry them apart.

Spot on for my money. Was having very similar thoughts myself. Surely we need to start shooting more from distance, and setting up plays to make those opportunities happen? Same with getting in the box. We need to start taking people on. There's got to be a high chance of a penalty if we can start driving into the box. Mane just seems to have stopped doing it. Salah tries, but is so one footed, he's easy to work out.

Passing the ball around the perimeter of the box, then whipping it in is just not going to work when there are so many defending players in there. It's got to change.

How can we use a packed box to our advantage?

[smutchin]

Does my head in that players get a penalty for kicking the ball out of play like that and then falling over the keeper but the likes of a player taking a shot like Mane getting taken out after the shot and nothing ever happens. What is the difference?

The difference? One of them was wearing red.

ETA: ah, just seen Golyo got there first

[chiplege]

Having slept on it - poorly, unfortunately - I am strangely in a much better mood than I was after the game yesterday.

I didn't think we played THAT bad, but the lack of finishing and the silly penalty was a solid kick in the bollocks. What I mean is that we have had plenty of matched in the last few years when we have been under par, but still came away with the win. I don't think yesterday's game was that much different from those. If Origi puts his chance away in the first half, the game would have opened up and possibly ended quite differently. Performance wise it just feels a whole lot worse since we have had a number of shite results in a row.

We just need a bit of luck - something, anything, to fall our way - and we will hopefully get going again. This insane run of bad luck can't go on for ever, even though it feels like it right now.

Yeah was dejected myself last night after that game!  But feeling a bit better today.  We are really struggling against teams that park the bus.   Not sure how we get around that to be honest.   Our passing defintley looks alot slower, you look at City and they are zipping it around and that's how they get in.    We need to speed up our game again and maybe we can do the same.   Trent is major worry, but he I think he was let down by the movement of the forwards.  You could see 2nd half he was trying to put low crosses in but Burnley anticapted them!    Frustrating as hell, but like others have said on there - remember what these players have done for us.   It's easy to get angry and frustrated with what is going on.   Injuries have certainly killed us this season, along with some stupid fckin VAR decisions.    I think we just need to up our tempo really and see how we get on.   And please play Minamini in the hole and give him a decent run of games - pretty please Jurgen.  He could help us unlock the Bus!!

[Butcher Knife Roberto]

So we’ve regressed into the easiest team to play against. Put 10 players behind the ball and let us run round and round with the odd chip cross. Wait for your one chance and score.

In a nutshell. A fresh start is needed.

[kasperoff]

Apologies if already discussed, but what was the difference between Mane being taken out after a shot in the box and Barnes tripping over Alisson after hitting the ball wide?

I gave up on this one a long time ago. For some reason those never get given. If the striker has got the shot off, then he's fair game. If a defender follows through with an attempted block it's just seems as part of the passage of play. Very odd, but its always the same.

The Barnes pens get given almost every time. Although I'm not sure Salah would have got it!

[JRed]

Apologies if already discussed, but what was the difference between Mane being taken out after a shot in the box and Barnes tripping over Alisson after hitting the ball wide?

The difference is the ref and VAR , they pick and choose how they apply rules according to who they want to win the game.

[lionel_messias]

97 points.

99 points.

This team was INCREDIBLE.

The truth is all that effort and mental desire takes something out of players who are not robots or Fifa players.

Virgil is a bigger miss than anyone even realised. Plus Gomez too, that's our highline -with confidence - gone.

The conclusion is, like all great teams, we have to re-group and Klopp will need to be ruthless about what he has got as his disposal. It's sad also to think about
how much Oxlade and Naby Keita are able to contribute in the matches we have to play------very little.

Klopp is a magnificent manager and we are set-up for long-term success so now he will earn his salary in a different way: scalpel and cheque-book needed in the Summer. Right now, he was actually not wrong: we must secure Top 4 this season.

[JSteve]

Not as bad a performance as Southamption, there that's the token positive take done with.

We have turned into prime post-invincibles era Arsenal. Let's see if we can get the Top 4 trophy to keep the owners happy.
I'm sure another few interviews are incoming from our players about turning corners. If they spent as much time training as they use to give interviews, we would not be having relegation form over the last 5 games.

Also to me Klopp looks disinterested and frustrated on the sidelines. Maybe it's because players are not following his instructions or him not being backed by owners, but whatever it is is definitely having an effect on his tactics.
Our strategy against Burnley was to cross again and again. Burnley are the last team one would use that tactic against even if it was successful. For Liverpool especially crossing has not worked for a month but we still did it anyway with very predictable results. It's like Arteta has been in charge of our attacking tactics.

I wrote last week that we need to get out of our funk to make Top 4 but with Klopp not in his best frame of mind, I don't see this team getting anywhere near. We need something to rejuvenate our league season. What it exactly is I have no idea, but then I am not paid millions of pounds to analyze that either.

[harleydanger]

That Origi chance could’ve dropped to anyone in the squad and the result would’ve been the same.

[SteveLFC]

How can we use a packed box to our advantage?

Low, hard, quick driven crosses to the near post with well-timed runs from our strikers to ping a first-time shot. Any deflections pounced upon with a first time shot or pass to someone in a better position. The key is to do everything quicker. We seem to have given up on first-time shots or passes in and around the box. Stop trying to score the perfect goal and just force the ball home from a deflection or force an own goal. Dithering on the ball and floaty crosses allow the low block to stay organized and compact. As I would say to my boy, "just get stuck in lad"

[SteveLFC]

We are basically doing the same thing as Arsenal were doing a couple of months ago when they looked short of confidence and passion. If they can turn it around, I am certain we can!

[harleydanger]

You could see Burnley happy to push us out to the wing for the cross. I would’ve like to see Trent running at their box with the ball to at least give them something to think about.

I would’ve also like to have seen Ox camped in the D looking to hit on sight, so at least their back six would have to leave at least some kind of gaps in the box covering him.

Also, we’re moving the ball so slowly. What’s with that? If we can’t beat players on the dribble, which we didn’t do once, we need to play five gears higher with ball movement.

Might be time to just start running at the opposition with the ball, if we lose it hopefully it creates a bit of chaos.

[Andy82lfc]

That Origi chance could’ve dropped to anyone in the squad and the result would’ve been the same.

The way we are playing at the moment you can't really argue much with that.

I think like Klopp is saying it is a confidence issue. We are holding possession, bossing games as easily as ever before, even more so at times which how that aspect of our game is so second nature to the team is incredible in itself. The big but though is that as we all know when we get to the final third, those intricate moves, one touch passes and finishing has all gone to shit which as Klopp has said is mostly down to confidence as is obvious.

One plus point from last night is that we were getting a lot more shots away and on target that the last few games, the stats almost read like what would have been a 3-0 game from last season. Which again just emphasises that the main problem is just those final instinctive passes, decision making and finishing in those vital areas that just all comes down to confidence and luck, which we are getting fuck all of lately.

Think I said last night we are cursed when that Firmino shot at goal inside the box pinballed off the Burnley defenders on the line and went out of play. You just can't keep getting that shit unlucky forever. Think we have to remember we are still bossing games, if Origi finishes last night and we get a bit of luck somewhere else no one would have batted an eyelid, most would have said with over 70% possession and 27 shots we bossed the game and got what we deserved. We are just needing a bit of luck and a goal to go in for the attack to start clicking again. It will happen I'm sure of it, but it's just painful seeing some of the absolute shite in front of us the past few games and not being able to dispose of them as usual.

[stockdam]

What was unlucky about it? He made the chance much more difficult than it needed to be by going for the top corner. It was an awful miss.

Name a player that would have put it away 100% of the time.
It wasn’t a tap-in.
He did everything right and was unlucky......it wasn’t “an awful miss”.

Name a player who has a 100% penalty success (who has taken more than 20).

You cannot slate a player for one miss. He did bring something that Firmino wasn’t doing which is to manufacture his own chances.

Give the guy some credit as he was trying and is an option that we may have to use until Jota returns.

[Dim Glas]

Not sure about doing ‘everything right’. Not sure why there was a need to absolutely leather it.  Wouldn’t going for placement by curling it round have been a better bet? I really don’t know, not tried it  But to just seemingly batter it as hard as possible didn’t look like a right decision.

[SteveLFC]

Name a player that would have put it away 100% of the time.
It wasn’t a tap-in.
He did everything right and was unlucky......it wasn’t “an awful miss”.

Name a player who has a 100% penalty success (who has taken more than 20).

You cannot slate a player for one miss. He did bring something that Firmino wasn’t doing which is to manufacture his own chances.

Give the guy some credit as he was trying and is an option that we may have to use until Jota returns.

If you watch the replay, just before he goes to strike the ball it takes a small bounce which is probably the reason it strikes the bar. It is unlucky and not as bad a miss as some are making out. One of those things that just happens.

[stockdam]

Does my head in that players get a penalty for kicking the ball out of play like that and then falling over the keeper but the likes of a player taking a shot like Mane getting taken out after the shot and nothing ever happens. What is the difference?

Hard to say but the difference was a split second.
Mane got his shot away and then was fouled. If it happened outside the box then I’d say it would have been a free kick so why not apply the same rules in the area?

Barnes’ penalty was slightly different. Alisson took Barnes out just after he kicked the ball out......a split second faster than the tackle on Mane. Barnes made a meal of it plus there were loud shouts for the penalty which tends to affect the ref.

Neither tackle affected the fact that the ball was going out. The one difference is that Mane was trying to score whereas Barnes was only interested in getting the penalty.

Neither should be a penalty as neither tackle affected the ball. On the other hand, Gini had a shot recently that was goal bound but hit the defenders hand which was away from his body. This was much more of a penalty than Barnes’s one.

[HomesickRed]

I think there are only few ways to crack “bus Parkers”. First, u must have players who can shoot from outside the box with power and accuracy. Gerrard, Torres, Suarez type. Anything within 30-40 yards are chances to try pop a shot. We have none today. Closest is Ox and Trent. Both are playing without much confidence today. Second, we must have players who can take the ball and run at defenders into the box. Either we get a penalty if trip or create enough havoc and confusion in the box. Any deflections can easily be converted too. Only Mane is trying this. No one else is forcing himself into the box.  Third, u have a big strong striker that can turn set pieces into goals. Crosses will be effective too. Our strikers are not big or burly like Andy Carroll or VVD type. Lastly, going down the bye lines with simple one twos at speed to get in from behind. We don’t do that. We cross very early. Especially Trent and Salah who cannot get to the byeline or beat any man on the right side.  Early crosses with not many forwards in the box just get cleared easily.

So “bus Parker’s” find it easy to play us. Cause we don’t use any of these options to pry them apart.

Every cross Trent etc put in was either floated over and picked off by Pope or played towards the 18 yard line. Nothing went across the goal line behind the defenders.
And as you said, the lack of one-twos is blindingly obvious. We never, ever overlap / underlap the fullbacks.

It's a system thing. It's not a Klopp way of playing. The only clear chance we had last night was Origi and that was old school Klopp -- pressure on the defender forcing a mistake after they lost the ball.
To his credit, Origi forced two saves and hit the bar in the first half. It's no coincidence that these came from us on the counter after they were attacking us and lost the ball.

So part of the answer is us trusting ourselves to let the opposition have the ball more when our own Plan A isn't working.

Teams parking the bus is a compliment. The extreme versions we've seen in the last half dozen games is actually testament to how good we are. Even the better teams are terrified to play us toe to toe.

Unfortunately we have been slow to adapt to this by giving up possession and forcing the opposition to play and open the game up.

[The Test]

snip

Agreed. Bit of perspective. Also City's billion dollar unit stumbled last year after looking unstoppable for a good while. It happens. This could be simply be going backwards to go forwards. i've always thought our attacking play, while effective maybe lacked nuance. Bobby's recent regression perhaps puts the spotlight back on the attacking midfield spot and highlights to need for a proper elite talent there...

[Red Sky at Night]

Does my head in that players get a penalty for kicking the ball out of play like that and then falling over the keeper but the likes of a player taking a shot like Mane getting taken out after the shot and nothing ever happens. What is the difference?

On a similar topic - why is it that the slightest nudge or touch on a player (Red or otherwise) seems to warrant a free kick, when in any part of the pitch apart from the penalty area? And yet attacking players can be barged and pulled around etc in the penalty box (corner kicks being a classic example) and the ref gives nothing.

It's not just affecting Liverpool, but I'd love to see refereeing decisions being consistent and if that means awarding 15 penalties in one game then so be it. A foul is a foul!

[Thepooloflife]

Despite his miss, I'd echo shouts for Origi getting a run in the side as the central forward. His tendency to run the channels, work himself into shooting positions, and hit the ball with conviction is sorely missed. Finishing that chance would've down him the world of good so I hope he isn't disheartened by it, overall it was a positive performance from him. Bobby could do with having some time out of spotlight, I think he'd be better for it.

I think I'd agree with that. It was a bad miss, but at the same time unlucky - but at least he was having a go (tried a couple earlier I think, though wide of the mark) and does run at people, which can cause problems for defenders. Arguably, the Bobby chance second half was easier.

[MazzaRed]

It's not the players, it's the way we are playing. I don't know what it is but something clearly is not right. Nothing is going our way and we do fuck all to change it, we've thrown the title away through this terrible run. I think we will be in a struggle to get the Top 4 in all honesty, I don't know how we get out of this mess.

Is right - not the players but the way we're playing. It's a confidence thing 100% for me. All of them completely shot. Shall was the only one who looked ok in that department.
Either that or we're hung over... 2 massive seasons behind us with the intensity and relentless almost perfection....takes its toll.

Leave the sports psychologists to work their magic as well as Jurgen...and lets carry on. It's not as bad as it fells right now!!

[rushyman]

We don't press anymore.

I heard that in Cliff Richard singing voice

[Paul_h]

Every cross Trent etc put in was either floated over and picked off by Pope or played towards the 18 yard line. Nothing went across the goal line behind the defenders.
And as you said, the lack of one-twos is blindingly obvious. We never, ever overlap / underlap the fullbacks.

It's a system thing. It's not a Klopp way of playing. The only clear chance we had last night was Origi and that was old school Klopp -- pressure on the defender forcing a mistake after they lost the ball.
To his credit, Origi forced two saves and hit the bar in the first half. It's no coincidence that these came from us on the counter after they were attacking us and lost the ball.

So part of the answer is us trusting ourselves to let the opposition have the ball more when our own Plan A isn't working.

Teams parking the bus is a compliment. The extreme versions we've seen in the last half dozen games is actually testament to how good we are. Even the better teams are terrified to play us toe to toe.

Unfortunately we have been slow to adapt to this by giving up possession and forcing the opposition to play and open the game up.

top post, and nail on the head

[lollysportswasher]

Why didn't we try to sign Tomori ? is he really that bad or Chelsea wouldn't want to loan him to us ? seeing him moving to Milan on loan with 25mill buy clause seem like a great deal.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Why didn't we try to sign Tomori ? is he really that bad or Chelsea wouldn't want to loan him to us ? seeing him moving to Milan on loan with 25mill buy clause seem like a great deal.

Why would Chelsea do business with us and help us?

[solidgold]

Every cross Trent etc put in was either floated over and picked off by Pope or played towards the 18 yard line. Nothing went across the goal line behind the defenders.
And as you said, the lack of one-twos is blindingly obvious. We never, ever overlap / underlap the fullbacks.

It's a system thing. It's not a Klopp way of playing. The only clear chance we had last night was Origi and that was old school Klopp -- pressure on the defender forcing a mistake after they lost the ball.
To his credit, Origi forced two saves and hit the bar in the first half. It's no coincidence that these came from us on the counter after they were attacking us and lost the ball.

So part of the answer is us trusting ourselves to let the opposition have the ball more when our own Plan A isn't working.

Teams parking the bus is a compliment. The extreme versions we've seen in the last half dozen games is actually testament to how good we are. Even the better teams are terrified to play us toe to toe.

Unfortunately we have been slow to adapt to this by giving up possession and forcing the opposition to play and open the game up.

The one-two getting to the byeline for a cutback or cross does happens when Milner plays. Maybe he is trained this way in Man City cause Man City does the same till today. At times I see Mane and Robertson do that too. Not often though. Beating your man down the line and then crossing it makes it really tough for the keeper cause he can’t really see the ball flight or even more dangerous if played on the floor or cutback to the edge of the 6 yard box. Early crosses work only if the defence is out of position and you have many attackers in their box. Neither is happening cause opponents these days already packed their box once we cross the half way line. We also not committed to be in the box and preferred to hover outside. Just watch the front 3 and their positioning.