Topic: PL: Liverpool 0 vs 1 Burnley ‘83 Barnes (p)

[jillcwhomever]

Two quality posts indeed. 

[Bergersrightwingviews]

  Maybe a scruffy, deflected goal goes in for us. Maybe we pull a win out of the bag in a big game we are now expected to lose.

Exactly.  Knocking Man Utd out the cup would be a great way to change the narrative.

[lobsterboy]

Any "sample" of team currently is / are playing well against low block?

Barcelona and Bayern for me. Something... Way or tactical approach that we could learn from?

Impossible there is none.

City usually do alright against the low block.

But is that not exactly what happened with Barnes? He shot it went wide and he fell over the goalie.

He actually poked his foot down to make sure it caught Allison. He had hurdled him no bother. It was kane-esque.

[Buck Pete]

Been on an absolute fantastic roller coaster of a ride for the last 3 years.  Players, fans and club alike.  Wouldn't swap it for the world.

Just think about things for a few seconds.  A dip in form was always going to happen at some time, not nice when it happens but it WAS going to happen and why not now when we were top of the league.  The last 4 or 5 games have been dreadful but we are still only 6 points off the top with all our rivals still to play.

Yeah of course we got to get better, much better.  I am 100% certain it will happen. 

I think we can all agree Jurgen won't be accepting this and he'll be doing everything possible to bring us out the other side.  Sooner the better this transfer window fucks off too.  A massive distraction to everyone.

[Eeyore]

Origi miss was shocking

He was up against a keeper who had a worldie against us last season and was very good last night. Origi has taken the keeper out of the equation and for me was very unfortunate. I thought he was very controlled, had a couple of very good touches set himself up perfectly and then struck it well.

[Ghost Town]

Not particularly angry about the Origi chance as in all honesty that should never have been a chance, just a rubbish mistake from Ben Mee that gave an opportunity out of nothing.
What is more worrying is the effort we seem to make to try and make clear cut chances, it’s a struggle at the moment.

A good point; yes Origi should have scored it and you should always try and take a gift when it is presented to you. But the bigger issue is, as you say, that we have not been carving out high quality opportunities ourselves. You can only go so far hoping for an opposition error to capitalise on. The attackers are being criticised heavily for missing opportunities but I don't think many of them have been really good quality chances - though maybe the stats say differently, I don't know.

This slump is built as much, or more, on lack of good chance creation as it has on lack of finishing.

[RyanBabel19]

He was up against a keeper who had a worldie against us last season and was very good last night. Origi has taken the keeper out of the equation and for me was very unfortunate. I thought he was very controlled, had a couple of very good touches set himself up perfectly and then struck it well.

Well said Al. In the current situation it looks such a terrible miss but he did well and it's a matter of inches. I think he was unfortunate too, its a huge chance but he's not missed a tap in like some are painting it as. Not saying he hasn't got to score there but it's also not an easy chance

[Dim Glas]

Saddest thing for me is that in situations like this, heads drop and it brings the worst out in some fans, some expert pundits and ex-players and all the other daft twats who want to shit stir  and are consumed with  schadenfreude.

Our Boss is knackered, mentally and physically. We’ve had continuous football for about 2 years, the players didn’t have a pre-season and we know how the season has panned out so far with injuries, players being kicked off the park by lesser teams and refs shitting on us all over the shop.

Shit happens, and big shit is happening to us right now.  Just like in life. Aren’t the tragedies that we’re witnessing all around us enough to show us that football isn’t the most important thing in life?

The memories of Madrid only 18 months ago and the imperious football we played last season counts for nothing if you listen to some people.
But FFS, we’re all disappointed and no one is hurting more than the boss and his team. The snide remarks are not what this club is about. They’ll hurt Klopp more than anything. if we behave just like other supporters. Ease up, laugh about it and plan for Istanbul in whenever the final is.

 The fickle never came up no fucking hill and when we get back to where we should be , and we will do within weeks not months or years, their celebrations will also be worth nothing.

If there was ever a time in his management here that he needed to feel that we were with him, it’s now. Shame we can’t get to the ground to show him , but just leave the bollocks out, find a big brolly and wait till the storm passes. And stop the unconstructive whining.

Well this post should be messaged to a fair few on here, especially all those myserious ‘new’ and infrequent posters who come crawling out anytime there is adversity, and they should made to fucking sign the thing before posting again.

Fine, have a moan about line ups, or bad officiating and bad decisions, or shit finishing, or poor crosses, but fucking hell, don’t be laying into the manager who’s given this club so much, and suggest his players ‘aren’t bothered’ or where never that good in the first place (yep, seen that here today!).  Back them loudly, support them - cos you know what - no other fucker is. Everyone else is loving it, and you know what they love more - seeing the shit element of Liverpool ‘fans’ joining in with them sticking the boot in.

[Sharado]

Aye brilliant that, I'd like to see similar slagging off all of our players though

'Andy Robertson has gone from Paolo Maldini at left back to Paolo Nutini'

Hahahah Mo Salah has gone from Lionel Messi to Lionel Blair.

[El Lobo]

Tough one for Origi. It was a bad miss and it was a clearer chance than we've had for a few games. He played alright, certainly no worse than any of the usual attackers have been playing, but yeah you've got to be scoring there.

[Ghost Town]

It's baffling if you keep comparing our current form to the form we displayed over the past 2 and a half years

It's not so baffling when you step back and accept that form is cyclic. All teams go through poor patches of form. We're not exempt from that

The fact that it has taken this long for us to finally dip is pretty phenomenal in the grand scheme of things

And that's all there is to it really. Hyper analyse and over think it all you like, but that's the long and short of it

Some people take this game way to seriously

Exactly right. And whether it's baffling or expected, the fact that it has been a relatively suddden sharp drop means it can be followed by a sudden sharp rise again. Players and systems do come to a natural end but usually not this quickly.

This is exactly right. I find all the talk about what has gone wrong with the forward line very frustrating because it's quite clear that an under performing front three is a problem caused by the lack of verve from the FBs, which, in turn, is caused by the lack of steel in the middle and the fragility of the backline. Everyone sits deeper and plays more cautiously. That's what happens when you move midfielders 10 yards back into CB positions.

I am not saying a new CB will solve that, but it will improve the situation. In contrast, a new set of forwards without a new CB will still encounter the same problem, no matter how much verve they show; a static midfield and a lack of overlapping from the FBs.

Agreed, and that's why the suggestions that Jota would solve it don't necessarily hold water. Obviously it would be great to have him but he'd need to be superhuman to overcome both the malaise and the systemic issues that have affected every other player. Messi could possibly do it. Not sure many others could.

As well as playing the right players in defence and midfield again, however, I also wonder whether it is time to take a different midfield approach. The midfield is the foundation on which Klopp's sides are built. Both the defence and the attack depend upon and benefit from it but for the defence it's a direct benefit, where as for the attack it's a roundabout one esp. when there's little in the way of a press. 

Might it be possible to alter that hierarchy of values so that the defence depends more on itself and the midfiled splits into the more traditional set up of a protective element and a supply element to aid the attack. At the moment the attack is linked more to the defence (the full backs and Virgil's passing) than it is the midfield. There's a disconnect there that can be bridged, to advantage.

[Ravishing Rick Dude]

Everyone's talking about how we miss VVD, Jota, Gomez, Keita - but i think there is one player that we miss the most, the 12th player. Without him, we would have never won against Barcelona at home, and probably we wouldn't have won the league.

[Eeyore]

Tough one for Origi. It was a bad miss and it was a clearer chance than we've had for a few games. He played alright, certainly no worse than any of the usual attackers have been playing, but yeah you've got to be scoring there.

In terms of xG Origi's chance was around the .4 mark meaning those kinds of chances are missed more often than taken.

[Ghost Town]

Hahahah Mo Salah has gone from Lionel Messi to Lionel Blair.

Mane has gone from Sadio Mane to Show Me The Mane 

[Trendisnotdestiny]

Been on an absolute fantastic roller coaster of a ride for the last 3 years.  Players, fans and club alike.  Wouldn't swap it for the world.

Just think about things for a few seconds.  A dip in form was always going to happen at some time, not nice when it happens but it WAS going to happen and why not now when we were top of the league.  The last 4 or 5 games have been dreadful but we are still only 6 points off the top with all our rivals still to play.

Yeah of course we got to get better, much better.  I am 100% certain it will happen. 

I think we can all agree Jurgen won't be accepting this and he'll be doing everything possible to bring us out the other side.  Sooner the better this transfer window fucks off too.  A massive distraction to everyone.

Thanks for this Buck!  Just what I needed to read.  Hope you are well my friend, you are missed.

[Eeyore]

This is exactly right. I find all the talk about what has gone wrong with the forward line very frustrating because it's quite clear that an under performing front three is a problem caused by the lack of verve from the FBs, which, in turn, is caused by the lack of steel in the middle and the fragility of the backline. Everyone sits deeper and plays more cautiously. That's what happens when you move midfielders 10 yards back into CB positions.

I am not saying a new CB will solve that, but it will improve the situation. In contrast, a new set of forwards without a new CB will still encounter the same problem, no matter how much verve they show; a static midfield and a lack of overlapping from the FBs.

I think you are spot on.

The other thing we are missing is VVD's threat from corners and free kicks. He scored 5 League goals last season and caused mayhem in the opposition defence. Teams would be far more reluctant to defend their six yard box and allow us to have double figure amounts of corners if VVD was playing.

[killer-heels]

I think you are spot on.

The other thing we are missing is VVD's threat from corners and free kicks. He scored 5 League goals last season and caused mayhem in the opposition defence. Teams would be far more reluctant to defend their six yard box and allow us to have double figure amounts of corners if VVD was playing.

I don't think that can be the excuse with this game. We defended well, pushed forward and got our key players in good positions, but I guess you could say that the lack of confidence created from previous games meant that it hindered them in this one.

The thing is how we adapt going forward. Realistically, we won't have Matip available for much of this season so our full backs will have to drop deeper again.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

Tough one for Origi. It was a bad miss and it was a clearer chance than we've had for a few games. He played alright, certainly no worse than any of the usual attackers have been playing, but yeah you've got to be scoring there.

Those are the ones that tend to be most painful for players as they stay in your psyche

1.  they practice 1 v 1s a lot in finishing drills and he'll remember how easy it could have been
2.  hopefully he does not watch too much film, as it was on frame but hit just a bit too hard to keep down
3.  could be in the back of his head on future break aways until he scores (possibly not if he's good with forgetting)
4.  the outcome did not have to be that way last night

Hard things to come to grips with when you've been waiting for your chance this season and then it comes --- tough tough one for Big Div

Hope someone is showing him the love today.

[flyingcod]

Great post from Andy Pandimonium.  For every game like smashing Barca 4-0, Diviok header v Everton or Salah running half the pitch and scoring against the Mancs you are going to have games like last night, and the previous 4,  it's football.  Part of being a fan.  Every successful club has a new breed who expect us to win every game (and last season we just about were). 

I thought the game last night reminded me of Houllier circa 2003, not a bad side but devoid of plan B, C, etc. 


We'll come back, we always do.  Up the f**king Reds! 

fc

[KissThisGuy]

In terms of xG Origi's chance was around the .4 mark meaning those kinds of chances are missed more often than taken.

I'm not sure how XG works but I think it has something to do with where the shot was taken from. Origi shot from just outside the box which makes the XG probably go down a lot. He was unlucky but I feel like he shot too early.

[Knight]

Tough one for Origi. It was a bad miss and it was a clearer chance than we've had for a few games. He played alright, certainly no worse than any of the usual attackers have been playing, but yeah you've got to be scoring there.

Thing is he also got some very good shots away from inside the box, making space for himself, shooting with real purpose. He should score the 1v1 but he also looked far more likely than the other 3, none of whom (particularly Salah and Firmino) look like doing anything in the opposition penalty box at the moment.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

Saw this quote from our gaffer today.   Might use it with my team.

“Confidence is a small flower and obviously someone has stamped on it, and now at this moment we have to find a new one and we will.” 💐

[Ravishing Rick Dude]

I saw this on internet and i thought it's quite spot on

[TipTopKop]

We need to hire that fucker Titchmarsh before the window closes, quick!

[RyanBabel19]

This is exactly right. I find all the talk about what has gone wrong with the forward line very frustrating because it's quite clear that an under performing front three is a problem caused by the lack of verve from the FBs, which, in turn, is caused by the lack of steel in the middle and the fragility of the backline. Everyone sits deeper and plays more cautiously. That's what happens when you move midfielders 10 yards back into CB positions.

I am not saying a new CB will solve that, but it will improve the situation. In contrast, a new set of forwards without a new CB will still encounter the same problem, no matter how much verve they show; a static midfield and a lack of overlapping from the FBs.

This is the main reason I think signing a CB and pushing Fab back into the midfield ASAP would help.

Some people see injuries and think it's just their ability that changes the team but it's the shift in the whole system that makes things different.

Our defence being deeper makes the whole philosophy a completely different proposition. You simply cant press high up the field as frequently and as effectively with the side sitting deeper. We've seen some sides play their way through our press but as an opposition player there's a huge difference between receiving the ball and looking up to see Van Dijk pressing and knowing he will outmuscle you if you go shoulder to shoulder, knock it around him and its a long way around, pace... he's quick too so that's another option ruled out... and having 10 yards of space to run into giving support time to catch up and offer you more options.

Teams seem to trouble us largely with a few strategies. Break up the press, if you're being pressed then go to ground, we cant find our rythmn and you get some time on the ball. Sit deep and allow us to have the greater share of possession, seems to be the tactic of choice this season and our faltering attack makes it a lot more viable.

The team needs freeing up. The defence play further forward and the midfield have less ground to cover going forward, forward passes can go between the lines more frequently and you can play into space for Robbo and Trent a lot more effectively as they are allowed the freedom to hit first time crosses or take their marker out the game with the first few touches and deliver. The midfield is closer to the attack allowing more room for error as if we surrender possession we have a tight knit midfield and attack able to press early winning the ball as high up as possible restarting the attack. The front 3 have the support and unpredictability causing having havoc for opposition defences, they can split runs, come short, run in behind and cover all areas of attack together.

You free up Fab into the midfield and this side transforms.

I understand covid has fucked things up in terms of incomings but a CB could be the difference between silverware and winning nothing IMO

[Dim Glas]

I saw this on internet and i thought it's quite spot on

can we do a swap deal for him for one or two on here? 

[RyanBabel19]

I'm not sure how XG works but I think it has something to do with where the shot was taken from. Origi shot from just outside the box which makes the XG probably go down a lot. He was unlucky but I feel like he shot too early.

It's difficult because in a one on one you do have a multitude of options and shooting early is one of those which can work excellently as it catches the keeper out as we saw with his effort last night. The keeper had no chance at all

[Schmohawk]

Having slept on it - poorly, unfortunately - I am strangely in a much better mood than I was after the game yesterday.

I didn't think we played THAT bad, but the lack of finishing and the silly penalty was a solid kick in the bollocks. What I mean is that we have had plenty of matched in the last few years when we have been under par, but still came away with the win. I don't think yesterday's game was that much different from those. If Origi puts his chance away in the first half, the game would have opened up and possibly ended quite differently. Performance wise it just feels a whole lot worse since we have had a number of shite results in a row.

We just need a bit of luck - something, anything, to fall our way - and we will hopefully get going again. This insane run of bad luck can't go on for ever, even though it feels like it right now.

[Buck Pete]

I saw this on internet and i thought it's quite spot on

Bang on.

[OOS]

Thing is he also got some very good shots away from inside the box, making space for himself, shooting with real purpose. He should score the 1v1 but he also looked far more likely than the other 3, none of whom (particularly Salah and Firmino) look like doing anything in the opposition penalty box at the moment.

Origi was sorta willing the to run the channels, which Firmino has stopped doing for some while now. Its what Jota was excellent at, running inbehind which pushes us up the pitch. I noticed Origi was dropping deep because he was surrounded by three Burnley players in the box, only to be ignored, ball passed outside to be whipped in while hes on the edge of the box.

Id happily see Origi get a run in the team, thought there were glimpses of something different. Get Thiago higher up the field too.

[Raid]

I saw this on internet and i thought it's quite spot on

Brilliant message and exactly what I've been preaching to anyone that would listen to me today!

[ep1987]

Apologies if already discussed, but what was the difference between Mane being taken out after a shot in the box and Barnes tripping over Alisson after hitting the ball wide?

[Hazell]

I honestly don't think we've been particularly bad in any of these games. The only real stand out bad ones for me were Fulham first half and West Brom second half.

The problem is the attackers and the full backs, Trent in particular, have lost their mojo and thats where the vast majority of our creativity comes from. We've then had to use Fab and Hendo in defence so lost a good deal of physicality which usually helps us box teams in. And when we've had opportunities we've either snatched at chances, found inspired goalkeepers/defenders, or been denied penalties when we shouldnt have. Its been the perfect storm of utter shit. But I also don't think we're that far away from clicking again, and we're more than capable of going on a good run.

Yeah agreed, the games themselves have followed a pattern whereby we've by and large dominated but have struggled to create enough chances to take at least one or two of them (aside from Newcastle where we should have done). When that happens, there's always the risk the likes of Burnley will score from the one they have.

I guess like you I don't think we're far away from things turning the other way given the way the games have gone. We'll see, I'm already looking forward to beating the Mancs

[Scouser-Tommy]

He was up against a keeper who had a worldie against us last season and was very good last night. Origi has taken the keeper out of the equation and for me was very unfortunate. I thought he was very controlled, had a couple of very good touches set himself up perfectly and then struck it well.

You can dress it up best as you like, he missed a great chance and again hasn't taken his opportunity to impress when played.

The sooner Jota is back the better as we aren't as weakened if he replaces any of the front players and we need goals now more than ever.

[Runehammer]

I think Trent's lack of form is hurting us the most funnily enough but that ain't his fault and he is still "just a kid" no matter his experience.  It is so frustrating us missing all these chances but Origi "bad miss?" - I thought he did quite well and was unlucky, maybe with a run of games he would have slotted it, no matter tho' I cannot say I would back any of Mane, Salah or Firmino to have buried it currently either.  We are definitely missing the fans more than most and we will come good sooner or later and someone will cop a right hammering.

We may not retain our title but we will certainly be challenging and will do so again next season.  I also think that if you'd told me pre-season about our crop of injuries I doubt I'd have thought top 4 was realistic.  Keep the faith please!

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Aye brilliant that, I'd like to see similar slagging off all of our players though

'Andy Robertson has gone from Paolo Maldini at left back to Paolo Nutini'

Nuntini!

[lobsterboy]

He's a complete sell out. Properly drunk the Sky coolade. Sits there nodding whilst Neville goes on about how good Man Utd are, then lays into Liverpool.

Down to spitting at those people in the car. Should have been sacked really. Disgusting thing to do and now he has to peddle SKYs agenda to keep his job.

[FlashingBlade]

Personally I feel energised after the defeat..weird I grant you...obv prefer winning...winning and drawing....er!...maybe drawing..y'see this has been coming for a while..players performances looked jaded and tactically we where in repeat mode...hopefully this defeat has ' lanced the boil' . We are not playing bad...just not playing great.

A line can now be drawn under an incredible period
..one of the best weve ever had...and now a new challenge...to reignite a team that is still busting with quality and...last time I checked...Champions.

We have always been fighters in Liverpool....sometimes the players have given their best but it's not good enough...this team is different....of course weve had set backs with injuries...but we are still a formidable team but one that has worn itself out playing at such a high level after three incredible years.

Re evaluate,  re charge and we battle on..its a mountain to climb but we are capable of doing it

[Red Sky at Night]

Fellow Reds. My first post on the forum.

After supporting Liverpool since the early 80s, I wanted to offer a quick view based on the current position our team are in.

Yes we've had an awful run of games, and at last night's final whistle there was deep sense of pain.... but, we should look on the positives. Here are just three:

1) Whilst our form has of course dipped recently, this season we've played sublime football on occasions. At times vs Chelsea, Arsenal, Everton, Spurs for example, our pass and move was crisp and fast and we played with confidence. So, we can play top level stuff and have done recently. Compare that to last season when, despite the wonderful overall record, we laboured to some wins, just about getting over the finishing line (Sheff U away, Villa away, W Ham at home for example) - our form can and will be brought back, once we get confidence as the first goal flies in

2) We are still dominating the ball vs virtually every opponent. Of course possession means nothing without goals (as we've found out lately), but I'd be much more worried if our possession %s were slipping, and opponents were attacking us in continuous waves. We've thankfully not seen that too much this season with a few exceptions (e.g. Villa and Fulham first half)

3) Defensively, we've been strong in recent games (albeit against teams which prefer to defend than attack) despite much discussed multiple injury woes

I never thought I'd see us struggle to score like we've been doing recently, but we are Liverpool, we will come through this and we will see success again and soon 

[Bergersrightwingviews]

I know what you mean.  Home record is gone - forget about it and move on.  Beaten by Burnley at home is about as bad as it gets - the only way is up so stop feeling sorry for ourselves and move on.

Losing to Man Utd in the FA Cup would hurt, but the boost we get from knocking them out would be greater than the pain of losing I think.

Go hell for leather and twat them.  We can then build from there.