Topic: PL: Liverpool 0 vs 1 Burnley ‘83 Barnes (p)

[buttersstotch]

Ok then, maybe it's his press/media interviews.  Remember the one when he couldn't get over the Crystal f**king Palace result?  He doesn't seem arsey and angry enough post games.  Like the spark has been taken out of him.  I'd expect him to be spitting feathers more than he is.

He's protecting the players as he knows something is not right. And judging by the comments he made post match, I suspect a lot of it is because we are changing how we play to accomdate the CB issue. As has been said before, we're coached to press and win the ball not to create and break teams down constantly. So how can he throw the players under the bus when ultimately he probably knows deep down we're coached wrong to play as no longer have the pace at the back to play agressive.

[PROPER crazyemlyn72]

We don't press anymore.

[Ghost Town]

Perhaps - but that’s a different conversation.

The point I’m making is that when Jota got injured, Salah was scoring almost every game, Mane was scoring almost every other one and we just looked a better sideS it’s a bit simplistic to think that if Jota never got injured that he’d be the difference -  all of our boss players (other than the keeper) look a level down currently, for me it’s confidence.

Spot on. But I guess people love simplistic answers they can chant as a mantra. And if it involves a bit of sly blame towards the manager and an unspoken suggestion that they know better than him,  all the better

[Caligula?]

We don't press anymore.

Loved that song by Cliff Richard

[Ghost Town]

I mean, yes.  That's pretty much true.  BUT, I worry the team are starting to feel sorry for themselves and that really concerns me.  It's okay for us fans to be all "woe is me" but if the players are feeling like that they need to snap out of it immediately.

I was thinking of Dr Peters the other day as someone mentioned him.  I worry we are doing the opposite of what he advises his patients to do.

When Origi hits the bar I worry the team goes "oh fucking hell, not again we are never going to score" whereas last year they would have thought "Good chance.  We will make another one. A goal is coming."

Obviously, I have no idea what the lads are thinking, but this is my impression of this season as compared to last.

I could be wrong of course.

Yeh think there's something in that. There's a psychological problem or a block or something. They don't believe it at the moment. Don't believe in themselves. Maybe they used it all up being absolutely on blob last season for so long.

Still, there's a long way to go, and sometimes when you finally hit bottom you realise that the only thing to fear is fear itself and all that guff. It can be quite liberating being shite for a bit.

[Ghost Town]

That’s my thinking, but then I quickly realise everyone is different  Maybe it’s a generational thing too, who knows.

So many questions where answered the last 2 or 3 years, so many things put to bed as it where, I am not mad at anyone at the club - especially putting into consideration what is going on around us. I don’t dwell badly in these results. Only thing that bothers me from a football perspective is getting shat on by officials every game.

And only thing that bothers me away from the pitch, is the wankers in the media, be it pundits, journalists, commentators or whoever (and yes, plenty of ‘fans’), laying into Jürgen Klopp and putting undue pressure on him. It’s not easy for him right now due to the covid situation and lack of travel part of things with his family (as it isn’t for many of us), and the way they get so excited at the thought of making his life difficult and piling on the pressure pisses me off no end.

Agreed. Good post. But soon enough it won't just be journalists, pundits and people in the media... We've heard this tale often enough before

[idontknow]

Leicester City was worse. 

[yes]

Can't get away from the fact that we've got problems of our own making but the whole penalty thing has been a bugbear of mine for years. It doesn't matter that the ball has already been spooned out of play because the keeper has brushed the leg of an attacker so it's deffo a pen. I mean what the fuck? Meanwhile Mane had a shot and gets wiped out immediately after but because it's what? - too obvious? - it doesn't get given. It's just madness. Then let's not even go there about how defenders drag everyone all over the gaff during a set piece. How is that *less* of a foul than a slight brush against a leg? It's like the more subtle the offence the clearer the penalty.

[idontknow]

Liverpool 1 Manchester City 3

Aaargh, woe is me, ye god's, the world be at end I tell ye

FA Cup
Swansea 0 Liverpool 4 ....

It's a start, maybe, perhaps we can build on this ...

Greatest club in the world always gonna have the hardest defeats to take.

And every little kid supporter, every young teenage supporter believes we will win all our next games.
Only adult supporters doubt.

I've never understood that.
It's much more fun believing.
And this club gives you an amazing return on your belief, again, and again, and again.
It's like free joy, and all you have to do is believe.

I'm relentless at it, and it has made me so happy over the years.


I ought to ask for $9.99 at this point

[Number 7]

Still sickened by the sight of Pope catching everything and dropping on the ball like he’d been hit by an arrow.

Shite man, I just want this bad period to end. Feel so despondent.

[ScouserAtHeart]

Just play Williams and Phillips at CB and replace one of them with Matip when he's available. And stop dropping deep to protect them. It's clearly not working anyway. If people get past Fab and Hendo in midfield and then the two CBs, we still have Alisson. Yeah we'll concede more but playing the way we did since 2018 we'll score more as well.

[elsewhere]

Not surprised at that. Players trying to walk the ball into the net every attack, taking too many touches instead of just shooting. That’s the title over - a throwback to when December/January used to mess up our season.

Ah well still a lot to play for with CL and FA Cup.

Top 4 too, it will be a battle.

[Henderson Our Hero]

We Will bounce back.

[Armand9]

Just play Williams and Phillips at CB and replace one of them with Matip when he's available. And stop dropping deep to protect them. It's clearly not working anyway. If people get past Fab and Hendo in midfield and then the two CBs, we still have Alisson. Yeah we'll concede more but playing the way we did since 2018 we'll score more as well.

i've been banging that drum for a while now, if we're not going to buy a cb (and as i've said before, doesn't have to be a world beater, just someone solid with a bit of pace, must be some cheap ones out there to tie us over), then play cbs in their right postiion and put our midfield back together and let's get back to playing as a team front to back

will we conceed more? probably. will we score more, well that's the hope once we're back to 'everyone' in their right position and it's better to lose a game here and there but win the others than constant draws - we well know constant draws win you fuckall every fucking time

[Ravishing Rick Dude]

Telling Origi and Shaq in the last two or three transfer windows to pack your bags and search for a new club and then start them against Burnley, or make the captain someone whose mind is in Barcelona - just doesn't sit right for me.

[decosabute]

A disastrous shit show. Tonight, I don't think it's any exaggeration to say, will probably cost Liverpool the league. It says a lot that friends are whatsappping me praying United don't win the league.

This season is too bizarre because of Covid and injuries. Covid created the environment but, like most people I have spoken to, it was the Everton game that did for Liverpool this season, with that unpunished assault (most, most aggravating). That was closely followed by our second choice CB also getting injured.

From then on it was a bit of a phoney war, as we as fans fooled ourselves that the team could go on. As it turns out, it could not.

So, there are mitigating circumstances. But that does not excuse the inexplicable decision to not loan/buy a CB as soon as the window opened. This isn't about spending our way out of trouble. It's not about building a squad. It's not abour replacements. We were already a CB down! No replacement was bought for Lovren. Yes Fabino can COVER for Lovren, but that's not the same thing.

Liverpool took a chance at the beginning of the season starting with only 3 CBs. It was quickly shown to be a mistake as 2 CBs went out for the season. Liverpool limped to the January window with an injury prone CB and midfielders playing out of position.

I, like many others, presumed the window would open and a nano second later a CB would arrive. 3 weeks and 4 games later Liverpool have just lost at home. They only won one game against Villa's u23s. This is crazy. I refuse to believe that the club can't afford to bring in some form of cover for the CBs.

More than that, what happens if one of Henderson or Fabino get injured? Are Liverpool going to try to go the rest of the season with 1 senior CB, one that is made of glass? I can't fathom this. I cannot fathom it at all... Gah!

Good post.

On your first paragraph, I don't think I'd phrase it that this is the game that cost us the league, but it's certainly the game where we stopped being in the running in my opinion. The title is now gone and I don't think it's defeatist to say that. We're already too far back. Even top 4 is starting to look a big challenge.

On the point about a centre back coming in at the start of January, I totally agree, but I'm almost starting to wonder are the players collectively almost sulking a bit that that's not the case as well? The slump started before then of course, but while a big variety of factors (crippling injuries, fatigue, refereeing against us all season) are combining to make our players almost look like they've given up, I wonder if the lack of helping them by bringing in backup is adding to that?

I think it's a big mistake either way. As an example, AC Milan loaned Tomori from Chelsea and that's something we should've been all over. Instead, we're robbing Peter to Paul in the way we're moving players out of position all over the team to paper over the cracks. The great German-engineered machine we have had is completely broken. We should've done whatever it would take to ensure the least disruption to our shape and way of playing.

[Nick110581]

Thought the original selection was odd and zero balance.

Saying that, we should have been one nil up.

Never know a team waste so much time as them though.

[decosabute]

I didn't watch, but beforehand I fully expected a 0-0. The 0-1 doesn't surprise me though. I struggle to see where our next goal comes from, so really didn't expect it to come tonight against these. It's all quite bizarre really.

At the start of the season many of us were saying how great it was that we finally had quality cover in virtually every position, yet not so long later the side was devastated by so many injuries that we were suddenly threadbare.

It's fair to say that this is a monumental freak of a season. It's a mess of epic proportions generally. The likes of we have never seen and will probably never see again. For Liverpool, it's a case of absolutely everything going wrong all at once. I've never known us to be so disrupted by injuries. I've never known us to have so much possession of a football yet fail to score against the dregs of the league like we have in this poor run.

There are genuine reasons for optimism though. Well, I think there are anyway. One reason being that quality sides and players do not turn to shit overnight. Neither do world class managers. we have been absolutely gutted by injury, yet are still bothering the top of the table. Our rhythm and momentum has been stalled at every turn too, and we have had the worst run of poor decisions I can ever recall. Now, these things can happen, but they always run their course. They can never be maintained forever, so this astonishing run of negativity will burn out, and we will rise again. That, is inevitable.

Sometimes all the stars align in your favour, but sometimes they all align against you too. Both extremes are imposters to an extent, with normality residing somewhere in between. Balance will return at some point, and when it does, we are one of the clubs who will be fighting at the very top, for the biggest trophies.

On a personal note, this season doesn't even feel like our title defence. For me, that will take place when we have the game back, with fans in stadiums and passion reverberating all around. As it stands, this season just feels like a sham in order to keep the TV money rolling in and clubs in business. I honestly struggle to take any of it seriously. I'd also feel the very same if we were 20 points ahead too.

That's just a personal take, so I don't expect others to see it the same way.

Great post. Eventually things will turn back to normal, as absolutely awful as it is at the moment.

And yeah, I feel the same that the whole league doesn't feel real this season - not only is it a bit of a charade to keep the money rolling in, but there are just so many other factors that are making it random - though I have to admit I'd probably feel that a lot less if we were flying!

[WorldChampions]

i've been banging that drum for a while now, if we're not going to buy a cb (and as i've said before, doesn't have to be a world beater, just someone solid with a bit of pace, must be some cheap ones out there to tie us over), then play cbs in their right postiion and put our midfield back together and let's get back to playing as a team front to back

will we conceed more? probably. will we score more, well that's the hope once we're back to 'everyone' in their right position and it's better to lose a game here and there but win the others than constant draws - we well know constant draws win you fuckall every fucking time

Hard to score any less to be honest, I'm totally with you. As good as Fabinho has been at CB he's severely missed from CM, it would move the whole team 15 yards up the pitch and release Thiago do to his thing.

Matip can play with either Phillips/Williams when he's fit, otherwise it will have to be those two - if they don't want to do that then sign a CB FFS.

[Nick110581]

We still should have been leading at HT. No idea how Origi missed.

They had zero ambition and Barnes / Pope / Mee / Dyche are all awful shithouses.

Let them have their day. And let’s not turn on this side.

[SteveLFC]

Just play Williams and Phillips at CB and replace one of them with Matip when he's available. And stop dropping deep to protect them. It's clearly not working anyway. If people get past Fab and Hendo in midfield and then the two CBs, we still have Alisson. Yeah we'll concede more but playing the way we did since 2018 we'll score more as well.

I have said this for weeks now. Its not so much about Fab not doing a good job at CB... He has been immense! Its all about what we are losing by playing him there and that doubles when you put Hendo in there as well. We lose that ability for the quick counter.

[Zoomers]

So that's 3 draws and 2 losses in the last 5 league games. It's safe to say that we've lose huge ground in the league, and I am not entirely sure it gets better from here.

Maybe come February we need to prioritize the champions league with nothing else remaining.

[Rush 82]

I just want us to score goals again.

Our front 3 look jaded and, as we saw before Jota got injured, really benefited from having fresh legs in there.

Ah well, this Covid football doesn't do it for me anyway, I just want top 4 this season.

PS the officials are now beyond parody  - no idea how that will be addressed.

[Rush 82]

So that's 3 draws and 2 losses in the last 5 league games. It's safe to say that we've lose huge ground in the league, and I am not entirely sure it gets better from here.

Maybe come February we need to prioritize the champions league with nothing else remaining.

We're still in the FA Cup aren't we?

[Simplexity]

Weirdly enough I thought we were much better with the AoC, Origi and Mane front three. Even though AoC and Origi had fairly terrible games. At least Origi had a couple of shots.

[killer-heels]

We're still in the FA Cup aren't we?

I think there is very little doubt he plays a strong team against Man Utd.

[Samio]

That Origi miss haunted my dreams last night.

[RedKenWah]

Not particularly angry about the Origi chance as in all honesty that should never have been a chance, just a rubbish mistake from Ben Mee that gave an opportunity out of nothing.
What is more worrying is the effort we seem to make to try and make clear cut chances, it’s a struggle at the moment. I agree with the calls to bring Hendo & Fab out of CB and use Rhys & Nat there, we aren’t looking like scoring so we need a midfield that will help with that.

We need to get back to winning ways quickly, some strong words need to be had from the manager to these group of players as it’s utter shite. It’s frustrating that a 5 game run can appear to derail our season when the players have done a great job since the VVD injury to sustain some momentum.

Something needs to happen though.

[Red_Mist]

I guess after the near perfect couple of seasons that we had, there was going to be a come down at some point. The wheels eventually fall off a speeding wagon and this seems to be it. It’s the way it goes and not really unexpected (we shouldn’t forget that close to 100 points is not really normal!). Plus to be honest (and this is just personal not preachy) there’s more important things to worry about at the moment. I’m not saying don’t rant and rave btw. Haven’t read the thread, but if there’s posters ranting then fair enough. If you’re feeling philosophical about it, fine. If you’re feeling angry, have a rant.

On the positive side, you never know when the corner will turn. It needs to be very soon if we’re going to challenge for the title, but Burnley might be the nadir. It also might not, but I’ll always believe in these lads and this manager to work it out and sort it out. It’s what they’ll be completely focused on.

Bring on yer Manchester United. Be a good corner turner if we can win that one.

[liverbloke]

the players are fucking trying y'know - it's not like they have just given up

do you lot play football? i do and every player wants to win every game - even a kickabout in the park - and these players are trying

some of them maybe aren't good enough for this team/squad but they're doing their best - so with that we need to strengthen the squad that's for sure

not keen on benching mo though but it won't hurt him or any other player

we had chances last night and the reason good players always score goals is because they are always there waiting for that chance and we are always there waiting for that chance and it'll happen watch this space

[kezzy]

The drop off in form from the Spurs and Palace games within 4 days to the last 5 league performances is baffling.  We just need to fluke a win somehow to get us out of it.  We seem to have no belief at all and that’s from players who’ve been fuckin amazing for the last 3 years.  Hopefully Jota and Keita can get fit in the next couple of weeks and one of them can give us a spark that reignites our season. 

[LFC_NCL]

i thought apart from the final delivery we played pretty good, obviously not playing our normal game but you can see there is some mental obstacles that certain players need to address, TAA is unrecognizable at the moment, and the front 3 can't buy a goal, but we are still dominant. Everyone wrote us off after the everton injuries, and we knew it was going to be miracle if we could maintain levels, we are too good to not turn it around, and the likes of city had the same sort of form, even 2 months ago they were out of title race. Its a weird season and we still have the cup, CL and title to play for, relax!

[AlphaDelta]

I'm putting it down to a massive lack in confidence plus mentally exhausted.

That said, I love Origi, he'll always be a legend for the goals he's scored, but he's finished here. Why is he getting a start over Minamino?

[HomesickRed]

Our midfielders are pressing less intensity in the last few games because the opposition is allowing us to play with the ball. However, our main problem is thle proverbial BUS! We just cannot break it down!

Our midfielders are not pressing because you don't press when you have possession!

If the problem is the BUS, then get rid of the bus.

Why not sit back, give them the ball and see what happens?

After all, that is a tactic we are perhaps more suited to

[jillcwhomever]

the players are fucking trying y'know - it's not like they have just given up

do you lot play football? i do and every player wants to win every game - even a kickabout in the park - and these players are trying

some of them maybe aren't good enough for this team/squad but they're doing their best - so with that we need to strengthen the squad that's for sure

not keen on benching mo though but it won't hurt him or any other player

we had chances last night and the reason good players always score goals is because they are always there waiting for that chance and we are always there waiting for that chance and it'll happen watch this space

Yes I agree. The other annoying thing about the officials and how they are judging incidents is it completely wrecks our momentum in games. We are building nicely, getting the ball moving then we have a 50/50 challenge and the free kick goes the other way. It's just a constant stop-start-stop-start situation which plays havoc with our playing style, as it means we are having to begin all over again. That brings definite motivations to the other team. I will say something else too, teams have understood if they go down against our players the officials will give them free kicks. I have never seen so many stupid free kicks given for pretty much non-descript challenges.

[mrantarctica]

I think sometimes the manager just has to instil some confidence in the lads. Perhaps it is just a case of put some natural CBs at the back and say play your best, don't worry about what happens you have world class players around you. I think play either Rhys or Nat alongside Matip and play Fab and Hendo in midfield which is more than enough protection for them. Get your fullbacks playing very high in the pitch and put your confidence in our players tracking back. Sometimes, creating a bit of doubt can mean that the players go into their shell and withdraw a little bit.

I think it's good that were trying something by getting Shaq, Origi and Ox on the pitch. They do offer something different, albeit at probably a different level of quality to the regulars. It's also the case that perhaps those players are well out of rhythm. To be honest, despite his glaring miss I was actually surprised by Origi. He looked sharp and keen to get involved, even though the overall quality perhaps wasn't quite there. I'd play him again in the cup game and see if we can get some of these fringe players in some kind of rhythm.

[wah00ey]

To me, amongst other things, there's an issue with our shape currently.  I lost count of the number of times the ball came to Shaq / Robbo / Trent / Mane / Salah on their wrong foot last night with the first movement thay made trying to shift inside onto the other foot.  This hasn't caused us problems previously but seems to be really slowing down our attacks at the moment and contributing to us not getting shots away.

[Fromola]

Not particularly angry about the Origi chance as in all honesty that should never have been a chance, just a rubbish mistake from Ben Mee that gave an opportunity out of nothing.
What is more worrying is the effort we seem to make to try and make clear cut chances, it’s a struggle at the moment. I agree with the calls to bring Hendo & Fab out of CB and use Rhys & Nat there, we aren’t looking like scoring so we need a midfield that will help with that.

We need to get back to winning ways quickly, some strong words need to be had from the manager to these group of players as it’s utter shite. It’s frustrating that a 5 game run can appear to derail our season when the players have done a great job since the VVD injury to sustain some momentum.

Something needs to happen though.

We don't look like creating a chance let alone scoring. One great run from Wijnaldum and a Mee mistake aside we may as well have not even tried to score.

Newcastle we created maybe 1 or 2 good chances. Southampton we barely created anything. West Brom we didn't create enough. United we barely had a good chance in the game and De Gea was comfortable.

Aside from a 10 minute spell against Villa's kindergarten XI we haven't looked like scoring since we hammered Palace. That's something very systemic going wrong.

It's probably just a perfect storm of 10 different things, rather than one specific thing. The question is, can it be fixed to get us a top 4 finish because we'll have to win another 10 games from somewhere?

[vicar]

Loved that song by Cliff Richard

But its not so funny?

[Smellytrabs]

We don't press anymore.

A lot of teams we are playing don't give us anything to press. Only keep the ball long enough to hoof it upfield.