Topic: PL: Liverpool 0 vs 1 Burnley ‘83 Barnes (p)

[Black Bull Nova]

Once the ref gives it there's not enough to say it was a clear and obvious error. There was contact, albeit we all know he was dangling his leg out looking for just that.

Had it been us it almost certainly wouldn't have been given and the VAR ref reviewing it would probably have said there wasn't enough evidence to give it (had it even been reviewed).

Not sure why we didn't get a handball for almost exactly the same thing as happened to Gomez at City mind, but there you go. A microcosm of this season, if it can go wrong then it probably will go wrong - only for exactly the same thing to happen to us a few games later and the opposite decision be made.

I despair at the majority of penalties that are given, most of the incidents do not deserve a 90% chance of a goal (that's what it is in practice), neither did tonight but it is the inconsistency that I get annoyed about. Not only penalties, their was a foul given against Matip tonight for jumping over a player which was a replica of an incident on Sunday where the foul was given against Shaqiri for standing still. Both were the same, we were penalised both times for doing opposite things.

I still say penalties should be discretionary according the degree of goal scoring chance and that free kicks inside the box should be used (and penalties for denying goal scoring chances outside the box also)

[kasperoff]

We’ve stopped pressing defences

Amd I think it’s possibly because we don’t want them sending it long too much with Virgil out

I thought tonight I saw the first signs of a press in what seems like ages.

The general performance tonight was OK.  Our work in the opposition box and the finishing was atrocious though. We were far worse against Newcastle, West Brom and Southampton.

I just can't get my head around what's going on with Mane, Firmino and Salah. It's unexplainable.

[MH41]

Not saying everything is perfect, far from it, but it also isn’t the end of the world either. Before this rough patch we were top with not only our center backs gone all season but as you say also not being able to have our normal midfield either. Our team has been decimated and yet we are still just 6 point behind after our worst patch in years with half a season to go.

Without sounding to overly optimistic or anything I’m gutted as fuck and a few remote controls got chucked around tonight but Klopp is a fucking mad man genius and no matter how shit it is I know he will drag us out. I just hope it’s sooner rather than later. Saying that if we stay 6 points or so in touch and we’re chasing down the leaders with ten games to go with our form back, jota back and Salah and Mane banging them in for fun again, I can’t say anyone ahead would be doing anything but shitting themselves an id still fancy us all day long.

Agree.
I'm despondent, but would be more concerned if we were living on our wits end, defending desperately, making errors all over the pitch.
We're not. We're in control of games. We just need a break. Any break.
We'll be fine.

[rushyman]

You have to laugh at just how unbearably shit we've become upfront. It's absolutely painful to watch.

27 shots & just 6 on target. Six. It's painstakingly bad.

This is the last season this front 3 will be together. I imagine one will leave. Maybe even 2.

Relying on Divik Origi, Ox & Shaqiri as backup just goes to show how unbelievable we have been over the past few years and how much we have overachieved. 

Oh my god. Oh wow. Just what the absolute fuck

That’s right up there with the very worst.

People keep raising the bar in these post match threads

[rushyman]

I thought tonight I saw the first signs of a press in what seems like ages.

The general performance tonight was OK.  Our work in the opposition box and the finishing was atrocious though. We were far worse against Newcastle, West Brom and Southampton.

I just can't get my head around what's going on with Mane, Firmino and Salah. It's unexplainable.

I thought performance was again ok. It’s just the final 3rd. Mane looked like he was stuck in mud at times. Let’s not forget they played together for 30 mins tonight

It’ll come good again.

[kasperoff]

Honestly I think we need to stop putting our best midfielders into defence. Yes we’re protecting the defence, but it’s quite clearly coming at a cost to our attacking play and I don’t think the trade off is worth it. Just get Phillips and Williams at the back, Hendo and Fab back in mid and just go heavy metal again.

I think I'm with you on this. We need a shake up. If we can keep Matip fit, he's good enough to get Williams through games. Get Fab in midfield and Thiago further up the pitch.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Not saying everything is perfect, far from it, but it also isn’t the end of the world either. Before this rough patch we were top with not only our center backs gone all season but as you say also not being able to have our normal midfield either. Our team has been decimated and yet we are still just 6 point behind after our worst patch in years with half a season to go.

Without sounding to overly optimistic or anything I’m gutted as fuck and a few remote controls got chucked around tonight but Klopp is a fucking mad man genius and no matter how shit it is I know he will drag us out. I just hope it’s sooner rather than later. Saying that if we stay 6 points or so in touch and we’re chasing down the leaders with ten games to go with our form back, jota back and Salah and Mane banging them in for fun again, I can’t say anyone ahead would be doing anything but shitting themselves an id still fancy us all day long.

I've no doubt that we will come good again,it just needs to be soon,like Sunday soon 

[Always_A_Red]

Origi just isn't good enough now mate.

He was always missing that.

I'm not a massive fan of Origi either Fordy - he should have been sold in the summer or even last January with an upgrade sought.

However, he hardly plays. He's rusty as fuck and gets a big chance - half an inch lower and we'd be singing his song again, like we did in Madrid.

But I tell you what - put Bobby in that same position - he'd miss too. His miss from 7 yards out was as bad & he's missed his fair share of sitters in the past 4 games.

So i'd rather leave the fringe lads alone - they are fringe for a reason.

But misses from Bobby on a game by game basis that even I would be able to put away are the ones that people need to be focusing on and calling out. It's beyond shite.
 

[Number 7]

Not saying everything is perfect, far from it, but it also isn’t the end of the world either. Before this rough patch we were top with not only our center backs gone all season but as you say also not being able to have our normal midfield either. Our team has been decimated and yet we are still just 6 point behind after our worst patch in years with half a season to go.

Without sounding to overly optimistic or anything I’m gutted as fuck and a few remote controls got chucked around tonight but Klopp is a fucking mad man genius and no matter how shit it is I know he will drag us out. I just hope it’s sooner rather than later. Saying that if we stay 6 points or so in touch and we’re chasing down the leaders with ten games to go with our form back, jota back and Salah and Mane banging them in for fun again, I can’t say anyone ahead would be doing anything but shitting themselves an id still fancy us all day long.

Appreciate the post mate, but I think it's gone this season. City's next 3/4 games are a piece of piss, as are United's. We will be further behind iMO. The intensity of the last 2 years has caught up with us. It's hard to see where our next win comes from to be honest. Spurs away then West Ham away. I know I might get pelted for saying this, but I think this is going to get worse before it gets better. I was trying to remain positive just a few days ago but on today's evidence there is no immediate fix to our problems. We have just become so obviously predictable and some players are in the worst form of their lives. We all know who they are.

I think it's all about getting top 4 this season now.

[Ratboy3G]

Sell the players, sack the manager and burn the stadium.

Sell the stadium, sack the players and burn the manager

[kasperoff]

I thought performance was again ok. It’s just the final 3rd. Mane looked like he was stuck in mud at times. Let’s not forget they played together for 30 mins tonight

It’ll come good again.

Hard to comprehend it now, but I thought the performance was an improvement over recent games. Hopefully we are on the upturn. The strikers need to take some responsibility now. They are really letting us down.

[S]

Honestly I think we need to stop putting our best midfielders into defence. Yes we’re protecting the defence, but it’s quite clearly coming at a cost to our attacking play and I don’t think the trade off is worth it. Just get Phillips and Williams at the back, Hendo and Fab back in mid and just go heavy metal again.

I agree and I wouldn’t be surprised if something like this happens soon.

[Dazzer23]

Carra and his shit commentary can fuck off.

Generally I don’t mind him, but tonight he spent the first 80 minutes of the game moaning about aimless crossing, then at the end was moaning about us trying to work it through the middle to much. I don’t know if there is another route to goal we weren’t trying...maybe Allison should shoot more..

[Always_A_Red]

Oh my god. Oh wow. Just what the absolute fuck

That’s right up there with the very worst.

People keep raising the bar in these post match threads

Enlighten me. What part of it was wrong Rushy?

[Wengerpresser101]

I think I'm with you on this. We need a shake up. If we can keep Matip fit, he's good enough to get Williams through games. Get Fab in midfield and Thiago further up the pitch.

Yeh I think this too. Our midfield pressing has deteriorated ever since we had to shift Fabinho and Hendo to central defence. So if there are chances we can get Fab in midfield and Thiago further up reckon we should do it as it would increase our midfield pressing and transitions from defence to attack, making us more dangerous in attack.

[Kekule]

West Brom, Newcastle, Southampton, United and now Burnley. Am I alone in more or less knowing we wouldn’t be winning these games as early as half time? Maybe the first couple were slightly surprising, but we’ve become predictable to the point that you can tell very early on how these games are going to pan out.

We’ve been so unremarkable that the games I listed almost fuse into one long performance. Bar the occasional flurry it’s been multiple hours worth of disjointed and predictable football. So unlike the team of recent years.

Nope. I remember there being plenty of comments in the West Brom thread where everyone thought the same thing about only being 1-0 up against Allardyce and having created nothing since we scored.  We’d all seen it before and for some reason there were plenty of us who had been quite optimistic suddenly slipping back into expecting the “old” Liverpool as it were in that game.  Like we all collectively just shifted gear, downwards.

Since then it’s all been in a bit of a funk from fans and players alike. Strange.  Maybe it’s just the lockdown. They were playing in front of a couple of thousand for a bit and that gave them a boost, but now that’s gone they’re missing it more than if a crowd had never been let back in?

[rushyman]

Enlighten me. What part of it was wrong Rushy?

You calling us over achievers

I’m pretty sure you’ll make Redcafe with that one mate.

[kasperoff]

Generally I don’t mind him, but tonight he spent the first 80 minutes of the game moaning about aimless crossing, then at the end was moaning about us trying to work it through the middle to much. I don’t know if there is another route to goal we weren’t trying...maybe Allison should shoot more..

He's a complete sell out. Properly drunk the Sky coolade. Sits there nodding whilst Neville goes on about how good Man Utd are, then lays into Liverpool.

[Shaneee.]

SIGN A CB

[Jm55]

Once the ref gives it there's not enough to say it was a clear and obvious error. There was contact, albeit we all know he was dangling his leg out looking for just that.

Had it been us it almost certainly wouldn't have been given and the VAR ref reviewing it would probably have said there wasn't enough evidence to give it (had it even been reviewed).

Not sure why we didn't get a handball for almost exactly the same thing as happened to Gomez at City mind, but there you go. A microcosm of this season, if it can go wrong then it probably will go wrong - only for exactly the same thing to happen to us a few games later and the opposite decision be made.

Agree on both points really.

For me Alisson fouls the player after he’s lost contact with the ball - if Alisson doesn’t foul him, he isn’t going to do any better out of that situation than he would have done had he not been fouled, so by extension, is it even a foul? For me, no, but for the law of the game, yes (the reason it’s yes is ironically to avoid the subjective element of whether an advantage has been gained despite having the criteria of clear and obvious in VAR.)

When the ball hits the defenders arm I was screaming for a penalty, when Sky then showed the replay iir looked like his arm was by his side so I thought fair enough - no pen. You then see a photo post-match where his arm almost looks at a right angle and again I can’t understand how it isn’t a penno? To me if your arm is at a right angle and the ball hits it it’s a foul, and I’m pretty sure it would hve been a foul if it occurred anywhere other than the penalty area.

I’ll  probably reference this for fucking years but if in a world of VAR Hendo’s goal at Everton is disallowed but Silva’s gets to stand, then something is seriously fucking wrong.

[rushyman]

I know it’s repeated often on here, not by me yet though but now I must admit the jota saga has cost us a good 6pts by this time I’d say

[kasperoff]

Yeh I think this too. Our midfield pressing has deteriorated ever since we had to shift Fabinho and Hendo to central defence. So if there are chances we can get Fab in midfield and Thiago further up reckon we should do it as it would increase our midfield pressing and transitions from defence to attack, making us more dangerous in attack.

Well, you would know, Gaggenpresser101

[rushyman]

SIGN A CB

Not going to

We’ll have the best one in the world in 6 months and his understudy in less

[LallanaInPyjamas]

I know it’s repeated often on here, not by me yet though but now I must admit the jota saga has cost us a good 6pts by this time I’d say

It was the final nail in the coffin of this season and its absolutely baffling anyone can argue otherwise

[Coolie High]

Not going to

We’ll have the best one in the world in 6 months and his understudy in less

Says who?

[rubber soul]

I personally think we have overachieved with this squad. Our first 11-14 have been world class, but go deeper and none of them would get into the starting 11 of anyone the top 6.

Its a credit to the players that they have been so consistent in the past 3 seasons and credit to Jurgen for getting every ounce of success out of them.

We threw everything we had at last season, we won the league for the first time in 30 years. But this year we've hit a wall & with no crowd there to roar these lads on, they have lost all belief and confidence.

You don't overachieve for 3 seasons. You get what you deserve.
Do you think our rivals have squad players who would get into our starting 11 with everyone available?

[thekitkatshuffler]

You calling us over achievers

I’m pretty sure you’ll make Redcafe with that one mate.

We are over-achievers.  That's a fact.

We don't spend the most, we don't have the biggest squad, we don't have masses of depth, we don't have the draw of London...

...and yet we've managed to rise above the petro-dollar clubs and win the league and champions league in 2 seasons.

It's not an insult.  It's a miracle.

[Jm55]

I know it’s repeated often on here, not by me yet though but now I must admit the jota saga has cost us a good 6pts by this time I’d say

Maybe but we said that about Thiago as well. Everyone (including me) thought he’d be just the tonic for unlocking the low block defences.

Think it’s just a bit of a rough period, the first proper one we’ve ever had under Jurgen.

[Shaneee.]

Madness absolute madness not signing a fucking center back

[rushyman]

Says who?

Well next season then

He’s not going to buy a centre back for half a season

[thekitkatshuffler]

Madness absolute madness not signing a fucking center back

I'd rather we sign a centre back.  There's no great record of decent American defenders in the game.

[rubber soul]

We are over-achievers.  That's a fact.

We don't spend the most, we don't have the biggest squad, we don't have masses of depth, we don't have the draw of London...

...and yet we've managed to rise above the petro-dollar clubs and win the league and champions league in 2 seasons.

It's not an insult.  It's a miracle.

Over achievers how? As a club or as a team?

[thekitkatshuffler]

Maybe but we said that about Thiago as well. Everyone (including me) thought he’d be just the tonic for unlocking the low block defences.

Tough to unlock the low block defences when he's playing in a position where he's taking the ball off our centre backs.

[killer-heels]

Well next season then

He’s not going to buy a centre back for half a season

He wants to.

[rushyman]

We are over-achievers.  That's a fact.

We don't spend the most, we don't have the biggest squad, we don't have masses of depth, we don't have the draw of London...

...and yet we've managed to rise above the petro-dollar clubs and win the league and champions league in 2 seasons.

It's not an insult.  It's a miracle.

In 1 season you can overachieve

Not in 3. It’s completely fucking mental comment

We are underachieving now. That’s it

[kasperoff]

I know it’s repeated often on here, not by me yet though but now I must admit the jota saga has cost us a good 6pts by this time I’d say

It was a huge gamble and it's backfired massively. We gambled in the summer with 3 CB's and that's bit us in the arse as well. Lessons to be learned.

[A Dick]

Not gonna lay into the team because we can't say anything they're not already saying to themselves

Jurgen Klopp knows a lot more about football than any of us. But its clear against teams that play with 11 men behind the ball we struggle because we are so used to rapid counter attacks that we don't actually know what to do with 90% possession.

After about 5 passes around the box we panic we haven't created anything so we either feel the need to HAVE to cross it or have to shoot. Mee and Tarkwoski must have been fucking so pleased with how we played tonight.

Lets beat Man U on Sunday, use it to get our mojo back and win the treble lads x

[MdArshad]

Lets look at positive.

1) The record was broken by Burnley and not Manchester United.

2) We are still only 6 points behind the best team in the world.  With the best midfielder combo that the world have ever seen. Pogba/Mc/Fernandes.

3) The window still is open, we might get a centre back or a centre forward (Sorry Bobby, your time as a regular starter is over). Also still time to sell Divock.

4) FA Cup against United coming up. Form goes out the window. Hopefully they smell blood and do not play like cowards at home. The best ever chance of winning at OT.

5) point from the last 3 home game. Surely there is no way this poor form can continue.

6) Klopp had this type of dip in his last season with Dortmund. He knows how to end the poor slump. Having no crowd at home might also helps as the mood will have been toxic. The last thing we want is Klopp walking away. BVB have not recovered (not won anything major) since he left, we do not want to make the same mistake.

7) Man City / United have shown what one Portugese can do to morale (Dias and Fernandes).  Maybe we have our own winning run when our Portugese signing comes back from Injury.

[rushyman]

He wants to.

Tell me

Not saying I agree with it just what the reasoning is.

[smutchin]

We're in control of games. We just need a break. Any break.

I’m have been wondering lately which deity we’ve offended. Now I’m beginning to realise it’s all of them.

There were some positive signs tonight but it’s still not quite clicking and still nothing is going our way. It’s really disheartening and you can see several of the players are low in confidence.

I have faith they’ll turn it round and rediscover their form. Sooner or later. Preferably sooner. There’s nothing fundamentally wrong - they haven’t suddenly become shit players overnight, and we know they will be working their arses off in training to put things right.

However, we might have to face the reality that defending the title will be beyond us this season. But that’s not the fault of Klopp or the players, or even the owners. It’s mostly down to being robbed of many important players for large stretches of the season - partly through sheer bad luck, partly through the whole world being fucked up right now, and of course partly through massively shit behaviour from opponents and officials. But we’ve just got to get on with the job anyway.

I’m feeling very despondent right now but ultimately I still love this team, I love our players, I love our manager. And I’m still walking on with hope in my heart.