Author Topic: The Klopp Template  (Read 1092089 times)

Offline Ghost Town

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7160 on: October 17, 2022, 10:02:42 pm »
I expect you're right. We shall see. I have no skin this game. Kloppo can do whatever he wants as far as I'm concerned.
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Offline kasperoff

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7161 on: October 17, 2022, 10:18:26 pm »
The 4-3-3 has been broken this season as the legs have fallen off the midfield. It's a very highly strung tactic and very unforgiving if something isn't right. In this case, it's been the press. No press and the high-line just gets picked off as we've seen time and time again. It's been open season in some games. It's made our good defenders look bad, when it's actually been a lack of intensity in the middle that has let the whole system down.

Of course, some were starting to question the leadership, but I suspected a change like this was coming. We can't chop and change every few games if something doesn't go quite right, but after several poor performances in a row where we've leaked goals, Klopp knew it was time to change, and the 4-3-3 wasn't going to fix itself. At this point I suspect it's a personnel issue and I reckon we'll see a fair bit this 4-4-2 until we can get some energy into midfield.

Klopp picked the perfect time to spring a surprise as it left Pep pretty flummoxed and by the last 15 minutes they'd completely run out of ideas. It's been a very long time since we saw a Man City team so unthreatening. They had an XG of less than 1!
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Offline CanuckYNWA

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7162 on: October 17, 2022, 11:41:38 pm »
They had an XG of less than 1!

And we had a 2.04 or something and could have easily won by 3 or 4 imo. Some poor decision making, finishing and an insane save truly made that game look closer than it truly was. They had 2 very good chances that Alisson saved and some great defensive clearances to stop some clear chances but overall I thought we were the better team in that game.

I also don't Think we were that poor in the Arsenal game either, they just got gifted two goals. We are not as good as this one but didnt deserve to lose that game at all

I am really curious what we do in that Napoli game coming up cause it most likely will be a meaningless game

Offline RedG13

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7163 on: October 18, 2022, 04:31:26 am »
And we had a 2.04 or something and could have easily won by 3 or 4 imo. Some poor decision making, finishing and an insane save truly made that game look closer than it truly was. They had 2 very good chances that Alisson saved and some great defensive clearances to stop some clear chances but overall I thought we were the better team in that game.

I also don't Think we were that poor in the Arsenal game either, they just got gifted two goals. We are not as good as this one but didnt deserve to lose that game at all

I am really curious what we do in that Napoli game coming up cause it most likely will be a meaningless game
That Napoli it is very possible it is for winner of the group, which would be the goal.

Offline CanuckYNWA

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7164 on: October 18, 2022, 04:57:50 am »
That Napoli it is very possible it is for winner of the group, which would be the goal.

Your putting A LOT of faith in Rangers in Naples mate because the only way we win the group is Rangers get something there

Because just beating Napoli at Anfield wont be enough unless we beat them 4-0 or more. They would win on GD & GS all the other times. We would have to win and better their result against us in Naples. We also obviously have to beat Ajax in Amsterdam, which I think we will but not a guarantee.

Offline kcbworth

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7165 on: October 18, 2022, 05:27:56 am »
The other thing to note though is ManC completely targeted Milner and overloaded that side. If you look at their pass map you have Gundogan, Ake, Silva and Foden all basically camped out on the left with only De Bruyne and Cancelo on the right. Milner really didn't have any choice but to stay reserved because of this.

Edit: here's the map



I think Jota's ball winning and pressing was a factor here also

Offline lionel_messias

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7166 on: October 18, 2022, 07:53:35 am »
That Napoli it is very possible it is for winner of the group, which would be the goal.

I think our target is to qualify and after that is to carry the fewest problem injuries prior to the World Cup as possible, with the insane schedule and the injury list already looking pretty bad.

If we have qualified, the likes of Virgil, Thiago, Fabinho and Firmino can rest in this game or part of it.
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Offline RedG13

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7167 on: October 18, 2022, 11:24:28 am »
Your putting A LOT of faith in Rangers in Naples mate because the only way we win the group is Rangers get something there

Because just beating Napoli at Anfield wont be enough unless we beat them 4-0 or more. They would win on GD & GS all the other times. We would have to win and better their result against us in Naples. We also obviously have to beat Ajax in Amsterdam, which I think we will but not a guarantee.
With current GD your correct would probably depend on what it is after the next rounds of fixture but yea, that not the easiest GD to overcome.

Offline JasonF

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7168 on: October 26, 2022, 01:44:12 pm »
Wasn't sure where to put this but I think here is as good a place as any


https://mobile.twitter.com/BassTunedToRed/status/1585235482220564480

So highest number of touches in the box for penalty received and among the fewest touches in box per penalty against.

Online Knight

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7169 on: October 26, 2022, 08:26:03 pm »
Scratching around to get an 11 on the pitch and having to play a mental formation to do it. This squad is broken, injury prone, old and unsuited to the way Klopp wants to play.

Offline Caps4444

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7170 on: October 26, 2022, 08:28:05 pm »
We look awful today already…..zero control. Never been like this over the past 4 seasons…..can’t string a handful of passes together.

Offline tubby

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7171 on: October 29, 2022, 09:42:57 pm »
Ditch the diamond.  Fabinho can't hold on his own, Elliott is better as a right winger in a 442, and Thiago is at his best when he's central.

Some really mad tactical decisions this season.
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Offline Haggis36

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7172 on: October 29, 2022, 09:49:02 pm »
Ditch the diamond.  Fabinho can't hold on his own, Elliott is better as a right winger in a 442, and Thiago is at his best when he's central.

Some really mad tactical decisions this season.

There are plenty of players performing below their level this season, but they're being set up to fail week after week. I'm concerned that it doesn't look like we have the first clue of how to fix it.

Offline AmanShah21

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7173 on: October 29, 2022, 09:56:14 pm »
I dont know if we have the players to play at the intesnsity we need anymore. So many lads seem just so badly inconsistent and yards off pace. Fabinho, Virgil, Trent, Hendo look ways off pace. There's slowness of thought and slowness of feet right now and no formation change is fixing this. I don't know what can solve this problem immediately because the hunger and desire is missing.

Offline HeartAndSoul

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7174 on: October 29, 2022, 09:57:41 pm »
Why the fuck are we playing a diamond with no legs in midfield? Isn’t that fucking suicidal?

Offline Clint Eastwood

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7175 on: October 29, 2022, 09:57:45 pm »
The diamond has the same issues as our 4-3-3 did. The idea of the 4-4-2 was to make us more compact, give Trent more support, give Elliott less defensive responsibility, move Salah closer to goal. Really mad decision to mix everything up when we were looking better (Forest aside, which was largely down to shite team selection).

Offline NaivetyinBlack

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7176 on: October 29, 2022, 10:15:49 pm »
Whatever formation we play, our major players aren't bothered to perform anymore. Or just have lost the legs.

Offline HeartAndSoul

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7177 on: October 29, 2022, 10:20:27 pm »
You built the next squad around

Diaz
Konate
Alisson
TAA
Elliott
jota
Nunez
Robertson
Carvalho

Everyone else I would say is dispensable.

Offline Phineus

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7178 on: October 29, 2022, 10:21:48 pm »
You built the next squad around

Diaz
Konate
Alisson
TAA
Elliott
jota
Nunez
Robertson
Carvalho

Everyone else I would say is dispensable.

Agree with this. We need to be ruthless.

Offline Nick110581

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7179 on: October 29, 2022, 10:22:58 pm »
Whatever formation we play, our major players aren't bothered to perform anymore. Or just have lost the legs.

Why aren’t they bothered to perform ?
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Offline Passmaster Molby

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7180 on: October 29, 2022, 10:26:58 pm »
Why aren’t they bothered to perform ?

Fat new contracts

Won all they can with the club

World Cup coming up, don’t want to get injured

Fatigue from last seasons efforts

Age has caught up with them

Granted not all of those reasons point to not being bothered, but I think the above explain our downward turn in form this season.

Offline HeartAndSoul

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7181 on: October 29, 2022, 10:28:37 pm »
Agree with this. We need to be ruthless.

That’s a weakness of klopp though, isn’t it?

Loyalty to his players even though they are past it

Offline NaivetyinBlack

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7182 on: October 29, 2022, 10:28:56 pm »
Why aren’t they bothered to perform ?

Abject lack of motivation + genuinely afraid of missing the world cup, so playing as conservatively as they can, with zero aggression.

Offline Dave McCoy

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7183 on: October 29, 2022, 10:47:52 pm »
I think that Klopp is just going from game to game or injury to injury trying to piece this together and it's just not working out for him. The switching from 4-4-2 to 4-diamond-2 shouldn't be that big of a deal and numbers wise our performances have been about the same where we get about 2 xG and we concede about 2 xG. But that's the fucking problem, we're not fixing anything by switching formations. Pretty sure our underlying numbers are going to be the worst since when he was hired in 2015 and that's pretty amazing to think about, the team is almost right back where it started.

Offline Asam

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7184 on: October 29, 2022, 10:48:05 pm »
Abject lack of motivation + genuinely afraid of missing the world cup, so playing as conservatively as they can, with zero aggression.

are we the only club sending players to the word cup?

Offline NaivetyinBlack

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7185 on: October 29, 2022, 10:51:22 pm »
are we the only club sending players to the word cup?

No but our players look terrified. Other teams are mentally stronger this season. We are scared little mice.

Offline Ravishing Rick Dude

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7186 on: October 29, 2022, 11:00:00 pm »
At this stage of their careers, many players who are close to their 30s, or over their 30s, will start to think about length of their careers. That's what people around them, including their agents will whisper in their ear.
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Offline gazzalfc

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7187 on: October 29, 2022, 11:01:24 pm »
Out run by 11km by Leeds....

We're just not that team who runs and runs any more

Offline lionel_messias

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7188 on: October 29, 2022, 11:02:19 pm »
Rip up the template.

It's gone with these players.
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Offline Dave McCoy

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7189 on: October 29, 2022, 11:04:06 pm »
So we currently have the following:




Bence Bocsák
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Tonight against Leeds was no exception. There was a complete lack of control.

#LFC just can’t seem to solidify the defence at the moment.

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7190 on: October 30, 2022, 07:53:52 am »
I am no tactician but I have a question for folks who better understand these things.

Will a shift to a slower, more 'measured' approach relying more on possession and a compact midfield counter some of the issues we've had so far?

We tend to play at one tempo, which is highly aggressive. I am talking about a style that relues more on the Central Midfield  functioning together as a unit, moving the ball forward by making pasding triangles, using the central areas to dominate possession and make opposition players chase the ball and draw them out of position.

This high tempo foorball is perhaps not quite suited to our present personnel, accounting for age, physical decline and injuries.

We do mostly play at a high tempo, using the wide areas for most of our attacking plays.

Phuk yoo

Offline HeartAndSoul

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7191 on: October 30, 2022, 08:02:44 am »
It’s sad how we’re getting outran in each of our games this season. This is what you used to associate with a klopp team. Outrunning and outpressing teams but nowadays any team that ups the pressure slightly, we crumble and can’t deal with it.

Offline killer-heels

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7192 on: October 30, 2022, 08:34:02 am »
I am no tactician but I have a question for folks who better understand these things.

Will a shift to a slower, more 'measured' approach relying more on possession and a compact midfield counter some of the issues we've had so far?

We tend to play at one tempo, which is highly aggressive. I am talking about a style that relues more on the Central Midfield  functioning together as a unit, moving the ball forward by making pasding triangles, using the central areas to dominate possession and make opposition players chase the ball and draw them out of position.

This high tempo foorball is perhaps not quite suited to our present personnel, accounting for age, physical decline and injuries.

We do mostly play at a high tempo, using the wide areas for most of our attacking plays.



‘Slow build up is our identity’. Doesnt have the same ring to it.

Offline lionel_messias

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7193 on: October 30, 2022, 08:42:46 am »
Slow players is our identity, meaning every team in the Premier League can have a run at us.
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Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7194 on: October 30, 2022, 08:55:35 am »
It’s sad how we’re getting outran in each of our games this season. This is what you used to associate with a klopp team. Outrunning and outpressing teams but nowadays any team that ups the pressure slightly, we crumble and can’t deal with it.
I’d want to see the data compared to the last few seasons.

We average 63% possession which is the second highest in the PL, having more of the ball means you’re going to run less than the opposition.

It seems it’s one of those lazy stats that Sky throw around to try and imply the team isn’t working hard enough or not trying.
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Offline Walshy nMe®

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7195 on: October 30, 2022, 09:00:28 am »
I’ll put it out there.

Doesn’t matter how old or young you are - it’s easier to press and keep your positions from a winning position. We are often behind and we then face different challenges - it’s not a system designed to chase games.

It’s a system designed to take the lead and suffocate the fuck out of anyone trying to grab an equaliser.

We are too stretched because we are constantly chasing.

Offline killer-heels

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7196 on: October 30, 2022, 09:01:51 am »
I’d want to see the data compared to the last few seasons.

We average 63% possession which is the second highest in the PL, having more of the ball means you’re going to run less than the opposition.

It seems it’s one of those lazy stats that Sky throw around to try and imply the team isn’t working hard enough or not trying.

We are down on sprints as well. We are nowhere near as intense as we have been. Our pressing from the front is dead because Bobby is a yard off and Nunez doesnt know what he is doing.

Offline Walshy nMe®

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7197 on: October 30, 2022, 09:02:59 am »
are we the only club sending players to the word cup?

No, but our players have won EVERYTHING but the World Cup. So for them that could be the only goal left in football.

Everyone else in the league is chasing premier league titles, European cups, fa cups.

The players are letting this manager down as some of them are so obviously playing within themselves to be fit for the World Cup.

Offline HeartAndSoul

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7198 on: October 30, 2022, 09:03:01 am »
I’d want to see the data compared to the last few seasons.

We average 63% possession which is the second highest in the PL, having more of the ball means you’re going to run less than the opposition.

It seems it’s one of those lazy stats that Sky throw around to try and imply the team isn’t working hard enough or not trying.

But you can actually see it in games. There’s been many games this season where once the opposition have upped the pressure, we’ve just not been able to match them in that department: arsenal second half, Napoli, Brighton, West Ham in the second half, even last night we were getting dominated and pinned back by fucking Leeds.

This doesn’t happen the last few season, a team tries to up the tempo, we match them in that department and we’re too strong for them

Offline HeartAndSoul

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7199 on: October 30, 2022, 09:06:41 am »
No, but our players have won EVERYTHING but the World Cup. So for them that could be the only goal left in football.

Everyone else in the league is chasing premier league titles, European cups, fa cups.

The players are letting this manager down as some of them are so obviously playing within themselves to be fit for the World Cup.

Who though?

VVD is one id understand. Salah isn’t going to the World Cup and has been well below par for the most part, TAA is under pressure to perform to make the squad and he’s underperforming just as bad. Thiago won’t go and Henderson is a bench player for England same as Fabinho with Brazil. I think this argument that players are playing within themselves is just made up to try and cover up for this shitshow we’re seeing out there.