Topic: Lawless Liverpool?

[rob1966]

My brother in law was killed by one punch, fell backward out of train and hit his head on the platform.  Died about 12 days later.  Left two young kids and a devastated family.

Sorry to hear that, absolutely awful for all of you.

[Crosby Nick]

My brother in law was killed by one punch, fell backward out of train and hit his head on the platform.  Died about 12 days later.  Left two young kids and a devastated family.

That’s terrible, sorry to read that. This new story is shocking too. Crazy how something like that can happen.

[Millie]

That’s terrible, sorry to read that. This new story is shocking too. Crazy how something like that can happen.

Yes it is.  Garry had been to watch Charlton v Tranmere at Charlton and was on his way back to Potters Bar after the match.  Tranmere were brilliant, they sent a tape recording of all the players to try and wake him from his coma.  He was a big Tranmere fan and would have loved that attention.

[So… Howard Philips]

Absolute twats.

A workmate of mine was killed in the same way in Bolton years ago, one punch and hit his head as he fell and died. Never caught his killer as far as I can remember. Just a waste of a life.

Wasn't a sailor killed in Walkabout, Concert Square in the same way about 15 year's ago?

And I don't think anyone has Ben brought to justice for that either.

[Kenny's Jacket]

My brother in law was killed by one punch, fell backward out of train and hit his head on the platform.  Died about 12 days later.  Left two young kids and a devastated family.

I really sorry to hear that

[rob1966]

Wasn't a sailor killed in Walkabout, Concert Square in the same way about 15 year's ago?

And I don't think anyone has Ben brought to justice for that either.

That rang a bell so googled it. Yes, a 22yr old in 2006.

[Red Beret]

I remember a lad who worked briefly in my company who died from a single punch.  Chris McBride I think his name was, but I never actually met him.  He was only with us a few weeks.  Some guy punched him outside the Jackoranda on Slater Sleet and he hit his head on the pavement. Something about moving a newspaper.

[B0151?]

Reading these stories it makes me feel fortunate I've always been conflict averse. I do worry about if I ever got into a fight what would happen if they whipped a blade out or I smashed my head on the floor. You just don't know, one punch could change everything. It's just not worth it. Obviously the blame should always be 100% on the aggressor. But protect yourself and walk away. Always. Obviously some of these situations you don't even get that choice though. So messed up.

[rob1966]

Reading these stories it makes me feel fortunate I've always been conflict averse. I do worry about if I ever got into a fight what would happen if they whipped a blade out or I smashed my head on the floor. You just don't know, one punch could change everything. It's just not worth it. Obviously the blame should always be 100% on the aggressor. But protect yourself and walk away. Always. Obviously some of these situations you don't even get that choice though. So messed up.

My Dad is a 2nd Dan at Karate and he always told me just walk away, you're not a shithouse, you're clever. He's had a few incidents where he's been attempted mugged/dicks have started on him and he's not been able to walk away and it's always ended badly for the aggressors, usually destroyed noses or broken jaws, but he was always worried he'd kill someone and being a Martial Artist worried they'd blame him.

[AlphaDelta]

I remember watching the video to this, its a tough watch. It shows how easy something like this can happen, circumstances, all that.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/wife-soldier-killed-one-punch-12220074

The lad had gone on the ale with his dad in Rugby, going the toilet some other lad takes the piss out of his hair, the next night the lad sees the same guy and words are exchanged. The lad that threw the fatal punch was literally trying to avoid a fight, the CPS threw out any charges against him but what I found remarkable is the murdered lads wife forgive him, such a brave woman.

It shows the massive fallout after something like this, and that the best thing to do is just walk away.

[Drinks Sangria]

Was on Seel Street this weekend for a stag do, didn't see any trouble at all inside any venues, though some coked up nobhead attached himself to our group when we were looking for food to finish the night and ended up trying to grapple and swing for the stag, for seemingly no reason whatsoever. Luckily he didn't manage to connect and a few of the lads restrained him, police were there in literal seconds and dealt with the situation in a fairly even handed way I thought.

Literally no one was talking to him or engaging with him, he started following us and decided that the stag was 'looking down on him' which is what caused the initial confrontation. Absolute dickhead.

[So… Howard Philips]

Was on Seel Street this weekend for a stag do, didn't see any trouble at all inside any venues, though some coked up nobhead attached himself to our group when we were looking for food to finish the night and ended up trying to grapple and swing for the stag, for seemingly no reason whatsoever. Luckily he didn't manage to connect and a few of the lads restrained him, police were there in literal seconds and dealt with the situation in a fairly even handed way I thought.

Literally no one was talking to him or engaging with him, he started following us and decided that the stag was 'looking down on him' which is what caused the initial confrontation. Absolute dickhead.

Is this the Millenial version of "Who you looking at?". 

[Mumm-Ra]

Is this the Millenial version of "Who you looking at?". 

Haha, yeah now it's "You're not even looking at me!"

[Son of Spion]

There were problems in town last night. Next weekend is going to be interesting. A week of sunny weather under our belts and everything opening up for the first time in over a year. Every beaked-up, pissed-up balloon head will be out for the free-for-all and many will not be able to handle it. 

[Drinks Sangria]

There were problems in town last night. Next weekend is going to be interesting. A week of sunny weather under our belts and everything opening up for the first time in over a year. Every beaked-up, pissed-up balloon head will be out for the free-for-all and many will not be able to handle it. 

Yeah it'll be a nightmare this weekend coming. It was ropey enough round Concert Square (always is) and Mathew Street this weekend gone, so with all the restrictions gone I'll probably give it a few more weeks before I venture into that area in town again, let it calm down a touch.

[Tesco tearaway]

Is this the Millenial version of "Who you looking at?". 

"Who do you think you're not looking at?"

[Drinks Sangria]

Is this the Millenial version of "Who you looking at?". 

I can't defend my group but I'm not sure I'd class this guy as a millenial mate, unless time had been very, very hard on him 

Pathetic isn't it. Obviously wanted some form of negative attention for god knows what reason. I can't decide whether the lad had a big set of swinging brass bollocks on him to take the risk of kicking off surrounded by literally 15 other blokes, or if he was just that high/stupid. Probably mostly the latter.

[Red Beret]

I can't defend my group but I'm not sure I'd class this guy as a millenial mate, unless time had been very, very hard on him 

Pathetic isn't it. Obviously wanted some form of negative attention for god knows what reason. I can't decide whether the lad had a big set of swinging brass bollocks on him to take the risk of kicking off surrounded by literally 15 other blokes, or if he was just that high/stupid. Probably mostly the latter.

I was going to say, the oldest millennials are, at most, late 30s. They do seem to be the generation that gets caught in the crossfire though. The elders still seem to think of them as lazy teens, whereas the young uns call them auld farts.

Sounds like this guy was a Gen X

[Son of Spion]

I was going to say, the oldest millennials are, at most, late 30s. They do seem to be the generation that gets caught in the crossfire though. The elders still seem to think of them as lazy teens, whereas the young uns call them auld farts.

Sounds like this guy was a Gen X

So, you're saying Billy Idol tagged along on Sangria's night out?

[Son of Spion]

Yet more anti-social shithousery last night near the waterfront.

Between 80 - 100 youths fighting, with two lads hospitalised with stab wounds.  https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/teenagers-stabbed-80-100-brawl-21135710

All this despite a dispersal order being in place between St. Nicholas Place and right up to Brunswick due to previous violence and disorder through the week, which included paddle boarders being pelted with bottles.

Honestly, the sun, alcohol and going out without your brain really does see too many people acting like utter morons. 

We have a fantastic city. Why act like a feral, brainless gobshite?

[Jon2lfc]

Yet more anti-social shithousery last night near the waterfront.

Between 80 - 100 youths fighting, with two lads hospitalised with stab wounds.  https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/teenagers-stabbed-80-100-brawl-21135710

All this despite a dispersal order being in place between St. Nicholas Place and right up to Brunswick due to previous violence and disorder through the week, which included paddle boarders being pelted with bottles.

Honestly, the sun, alcohol and going out without your brain really does see too many people acting like utter morons. 

We have a fantastic city. Why act like a feral, brainless gobshite?

80-100 is a lot of people.
Dya think it was planned and gang and/or drug related as opposed to just drunken fools having a random street fight?

[Indomitable_Carp]

Assume it had to be a meet up. Straightener gone out of control probably. Sounds like most of them were teenagers as well, so probably not drunken fools in a random street fight either. Doesn´t necessarily make it gang or drug related though.

To be fair this stuff has always gone on, even when I was younger. I was an out-and-out mophead hanging around with all the other mopheads in town, so there used to be gangs of scals coming down every other week for a fight (not involving me its got to be said!). Maybe not as many as 80-100 mind you, and not involving knives, which makes all the difference.

I read this article just yesterday:
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jul/23/youth-violence-likely-to-explode-over-summer-uk-experts-fear

I don´t think you have to be an expert to see that coming, especially considering the UK has (I now realise having lived abroad) an unusually violent culture (in terms of casual violence)

[Lad]

Got the train up to Lime St from London on Friday to visit my mum. 10 am train and it was rammed with stag and hen do's. All off their faces by the time we got there. Later in the day walking up Bold Street and the street that goes down to Concert Square looked like one of those party strips in Magaluf or somewhere.

I know I'm an auld arse now and we had fun at that age but fuck me it looked awful.

[BarryCrocker]

My brother in law was killed by one punch, fell backward out of train and hit his head on the platform.  Died about 12 days later.  Left two young kids and a devastated family.

Nothing makes up for that.

We had a couple of cases similar in NSW so the government introduced 8 minimum sentencing for alcohol or drug-fuelled assaults ending in death. It removes the requirement to prove "king hit" assailants knew the punch would be fatal to secure a conviction.

King Hit has now been rephrased as "Coward Punch".

[Son of Spion]

80-100 is a lot of people.
Dya think it was planned and gang and/or drug related as opposed to just drunken fools having a random street fight?

I really don't know. What I do know is that a hell of a lot of youths had been gathering by the canal at Mann Island, swimming in the water and generally being dickheads. The police had to put a dispersal order in place due to the problems they were causing.

My guess is that lots of youths have been gathering, so plenty will be from different areas and there may be rivalries between some. Given the conditions, hot sun, testosterone, emotional immaturity, maybe drink and/or drugs, possible rivals amongst the crowd etc and it doesn't take much for something to kick off and see others pile in.

I could be wrong though, at it could well have been organised, but I've not heard anything as yet to suggest that was the case.

Anyway, I drove through town last night and it was rammed. I hope the night went off without any major incidents and people got home ok.

[Son of Spion]

Got the train up to Lime St from London on Friday to visit my mum. 10 am train and it was rammed with stag and hen do's. All off their faces by the time we got there. Later in the day walking up Bold Street and the street that goes down to Concert Square looked like one of those party strips in Magaluf or somewhere.

I know I'm an auld arse now and we had fun at that age but fuck me it looked awful.

Concert Square is somewhere I always avoid like the plague. It's the biggest gobshite magnet in the city.

[CraigDS]

Was down that way (not as far as the Jurys but went around Albert Dock) last night, stopped and had a few drinks with Norbert until about 9.45pm.

Loads of stag/hens around Albert Dock, and the normal shit loads of kids/youths all over Pier Head. You don't tend to get your scal types there so much though, normally more the skateboarding types and always seems pretty calm.

[Son of Spion]

Was down that way (not as far as the Jurys but went around Albert Dock) last night, stopped and had a few drinks with Norbert until about 9.45pm.

Loads of stag/hens around Albert Dock, and the normal shit loads of kids/youths all over Pier Head. You don't tend to get your scal types there so much though, normally more the skateboarding types and always seems pretty calm.

The skater crowd are great. Decent kids.

The North Face crowd turned up more at the steps by the canal at Mann Island, facing towards Albert Dock. It only seems to be the really hot weather that brings them down as they go in the water and generally act like arseholes. They were throwing bottles at paddle boarders in the week.

Imagine it. You have one of the most stunning environments in the world as your backdrop. The weather is fantastic. Restrictions have been lifted after a traumatic and gruelling 18 months or so. Those of us still here are lucky to be alive and could do with some peace and relaxation. So... let's all pile into town, act like a moron and bottle passing paddle boarders and fight each other. 

[Drinks Sangria]

80 - 100 people must be organised, it's a mass brawl by the sounds of it. You just would not get any organic situation whereby that many young people congregate in the same place and end up fighting, there must have been some element of 'organisation' to it all.

[OOS]

80 - 100 people must be organised, it's a mass brawl by the sounds of it. You just would not get any organic situation whereby that many young people congregate in the same place and end up fighting, there must have been some element of 'organisation' to it all.

Video of it out there if people want to find it. Just find it fucking odd. Groups of teenagers, girls and lads, handbags between the lads and then some lad whips out a knive and starts swinging it. He got knocked out, but still, fucking nuts.

[Drinks Sangria]

Video of it out there if people want to find it. Just find it fucking odd. Groups of teenagers, girls and lads, handbags between the lads and then some lad whips out a knive and starts swinging it. He got knocked out, but still, fucking nuts.

Just seen it. That lad with the ket wig who's waving the knife around at the end - before getting his head taken off his shoulders by a taller lad who looks like he's received some form of martial arts training, probably boxing, based on his stance and movement - looks like he's 11/12 years old at most. Crazy. Absolutely mad that this was going on, though if that video's anything to go by, it was 5 - 6 people fighting and 80 odd spectators, the headlines make it sound like an all out brawl between 100 kids.

[rob1966]

Just seen it. That lad with the ket wig who's waving the knife around at the end - before getting his head taken off his shoulders by a taller lad who looks like he's received some form of martial arts training, probably boxing, based on his stance and movement - looks like he's 11/12 years old at most. Crazy. Absolutely mad that this was going on, though if that video's anything to go by, it was 5 - 6 people fighting and 80 odd spectators, the headlines make it sound like an all out brawl between 100 kids.

Fuck knows what they would have made of the fights between Ruffwood and St Kevs in the 70's and 80's, they were proper mad days, the shops in the townie used to shut it was that bad. Remember coming out of school one day and there was just this line of lads stretching from the gate on County Road to St Kevs, the whole 2,000 of them must have been waiting for us. Fucking nuts.

[Son of Spion]

Fuck knows what they would have made of the fights between Ruffwood and St Kevs in the 70's and 80's, they were proper mad days, the shops in the townie used to shut it was that bad. Remember coming out of school one day and there was just this line of lads stretching from the gate on County Road to St Kevs, the whole 2,000 of them must have been waiting for us. Fucking nuts.

Same with Litherland High, Warwick Bolam and the Salesian. Pitched battles in the streets. Also, the summer battles on Rimrose Valley between Ford, Litherland, Netherton and Brownmoor. It was war. No spectators.

[rob1966]

Same with Litherland High, Warwick Bolan and the Salesian. Pitched battles in the streets. Also, the summer battles on Rimrose Valley between Ford, Litherland, Netherton and Brownmoor. It was war. No spectators.

Mental when you think of it.

[Drinks Sangria]

Mental when you think of it.

Some of the stories used to shit me up when I was in the Infant's school, we'd hear about the two local High Schools (Wavertree and what was I think Childwall at the time) arranging for scraps around Reynold's Park on Friday afternoons, with 100 kids showing up. To be honest, this being the early 2000s, I think this was probably a tall tale passed down as a remnant of what genuinely used to happen in you fella's days, but when I was 8 this used to scare me 

We did move out of Liverpool before the end of Infants so never got to find out whether it was true or not.

[rob1966]

Some of the stories used to shit me up when I was in the Infant's school, we'd hear about the two local High Schools (Wavertree and what was I think Childwall at the time) arranging for scraps around Reynold's Park on Friday afternoons, with 100 kids showing up. To be honest, this being the early 2000s, I think this was probably a tall tale passed down as a remnant of what genuinely used to happen in you fella's days, but when I was 8 this used to scare me 

We did move out of Liverpool before the end of Infants so never got to find out whether it was true or not.

I think the News programme was called Nationwide and they had a weekly feature on Merseyside Police and they actually filmed them when they had to come to our two schools in cars and vans to sort the fighting out. We came out of school and could see Black Marias and panda cars parked up.

[Mumm-Ra]

This scene has been taken directly from rob's photographic memory:

[redbyrdz]

Same with Litherland High, Warwick Bolan and the Salesian. Pitched battles in the streets. Also, the summer battles on Rimrose Valley between Ford, Litherland, Netherton and Brownmoor. It was war. No spectators.

....but people keep arguing how much more violent society is now...

[rob1966]

....but people keep arguing how much more violent society is now...

You never worried you'd get stabbed though, kids didn't carry knives and machetes like they do now.

[Son of Spion]

....but people keep arguing how much more violent society is now...

It's a fair point, but I agree with Rob.

I think the levels of violence have changed. You may have got a kicking, and that's bad enough in itself, but there was never the worry of someone pulling out a blade or even a gun. There is that worry now. A punch-up isn't enough for many.  They need to be seen as willing to go off the scale at the drop of a hat now.

Similar to how disputes used to be settled with fists, but now, knives are pulled, bullets go through windows or through people. In the past, it was more or less only the real hardcase criminals who would go to those levels. Now, it's kids on bikes.