Topic: Lawless Liverpool?

[Son of Spion]

Mental when you think of it.

Yes, it was.

I think the introduction of the police helicopter helped finish those battles off completely in the end. They'd petered out anyway to a large extent by then, but the chopper made sure there was no place to hide.

[Statto Red]

I'm sure mass brawls between schools weren't unique to Merseyside either.

Because if instant 24 hour news, it's being reported even more now than it was back then too.

[So… Howard Philips]

It's a fair point, but I agree with Rob.

I think the levels of violence have changed. You may have got a kicking, and that's bad enough in itself, but there was never the worry of someone pulling out a blade or even a gun. There is that worry now. A punch-up isn't enough for many.  They need to be seen as willing to go off the scale at the drop of a hat now.

Similar to how disputes used to be settled with fists, but now, knives are pulled, bullets go through windows or through people. In the past, it was more or less only the real hardcase criminals who would go to those levels. Now, it's kids on bikes.

Except for Stanley knives, the blade of choice in the early eighties.

[rob1966]

Except for Stanley knives, the blade of choice in the early eighties.

More for slashing faces and backs though rather than killing someone weren't they?. Little bastards these days go out intending to kill with the knives they carry.

Dads ex wife used to work on Casualty in the Royal. Told tales of the c*nts taping two blades together so that they couldn't stitch it clean.

[Indomitable_Carp]

To be fair the scals in my school were still having mass brawls in Caldies Park with lads from New Heys (and sometimes others) when I was there. They even scattered the school closing times between the two to stop lads fighting on their way home. Don´t know if the brawls were quite in the thousands though 

I also remember a big group of scals (a few of them I recognised from my school) coming through the middle of town in the summer with bats, across the old footbridge over the Strand (which is where I encountered them with a then-broken-collarbone before quickly doing a runner), and one of them I distinctly remember having an ice axe. They had come to fight the "Metalheads" at the Pier Head and supposedly put one in hospital although I hadn´t stuck around to find out.

Groups used to come down every other week, but that was the worst I had seen - and that was all in the early-to-mid-2000s.

But yeah I think basically knives are the difference maker now. Seeing that lad in the video stabbing away is just grim.

[AlphaDelta]

I'm at home today in Huyton with a day off, doing housework etc. I'm in the spare room which looks out into the road and noticed this skinny little runt about 20 with his hood up peering through the window of the house opposite. The owner is a mad cat woman in her early 60s, bit of a recluse. Next thing the lad puts his hand under the window sill, opens it wide and climbs into the living room!

Never seen the kid in my life, he's got his hood up (it is thunder and lightning mind you) so what do I do? Go over myself with a bat and confront him? Nah, I've got my shorts and flip-flops on and its lashing down.
So I phoned 999 for the cops. The girl on the phone seemed more excited than me, "is he in there now?" she was asking, "yeah defo, he hasn't come out, I haven't seen her for a couple of days and I don't recognise the lad" I'm saying.

Fair play within less than two minutes I hear sirens in the distance and this BMW X5 literally skids to a halt outside, followed by another couple of cars and a van. The cops go legging it down the entry, into the front garden, hammered on the door, then climbs through the window. To be honest me arse was going a bit, what if its a lunatic in there who attacks the cops? what if its a legit reason.

Anyway, they emerge with the lad a few minutes later and it turns out he's her son who hasn't been near in years, ooops!

Seriously though, I wouldn't hesitate to do it again. You'll get the ususal suspects going 'grass' etc, but I despise burglars, you should be safe in your own home.

[Elzar]

Absolutely the right thing to do though. Why would he climb through the window?!

[Mumm-Ra]

More for slashing faces and backs though rather than killing someone weren't they?. Little bastards these days go out intending to kill with the knives they carry.

Dads ex wife used to work on Casualty in the Royal. Told tales of the c*nts taping two blades together so that they couldn't stitch it clean.

Two blades separated by a matchstick, jumpers for goalposts, those were the days  That lad stabbing away would have been slashing away in our day, we were just raised better

[Andy82lfc]

I'm at home today in Huyton with a day off, doing housework etc. I'm in the spare room which looks out into the road and noticed this skinny little runt about 20 with his hood up peering through the window of the house opposite. The owner is a mad cat woman in her early 60s, bit of a recluse. Next thing the lad puts his hand under the window sill, opens it wide and climbs into the living room!

Never seen the kid in my life, he's got his hood up (it is thunder and lightning mind you) so what do I do? Go over myself with a bat and confront him? Nah, I've got my shorts and flip-flops on and its lashing down.
So I phoned 999 for the cops. The girl on the phone seemed more excited than me, "is he in there now?" she was asking, "yeah defo, he hasn't come out, I haven't seen her for a couple of days and I don't recognise the lad" I'm saying.

Fair play within less than two minutes I hear sirens in the distance and this BMW X5 literally skids to a halt outside, followed by another couple of cars and a van. The cops go legging it down the entry, into the front garden, hammered on the door, then climbs through the window. To be honest me arse was going a bit, what if its a lunatic in there who attacks the cops? what if its a legit reason.

Anyway, they emerge with the lad a few minutes later and it turns out he's her son who hasn't been near in years, ooops!

Seriously though, I wouldn't hesitate to do it again. You'll get the ususal suspects going 'grass' etc, but I despise burglars, you should be safe in your own home.

Right thing to do every time, don't confront and call the cops. An anyone who was to seriously say 'grass' because you didn't want an old woman to be robbed or worse just makes my brain melt, they wouldn't even be worth laughing at.

[Son of Spion]

Except for Stanley knives, the blade of choice in the early eighties.

I remember 'Uncle Stanley' being prevalent amongst some elements back then, particularly football hooligan gangs. As Rob suggested, I think their use was to injure but not kill, though. The difference being today's crew will plunge in with a knife blade, and that has a real chance of hitting a vital organ or artery and killing someone.

I know away fans often feared the appearance of Uncle Stanley at Anfield and, particularly, at Goodison. Man United fan Jobe Henry being the worst I saw. An amateur boxer who never fought again after needing over 200 stitches after being slashed by Blueshite.

[Son of Spion]

Right thing to do every time, don't confront and call the cops. An anyone who was to seriously say 'grass' because you didn't want an old woman to be robbed or worse just makes my brain melt, they wouldn't even be worth laughing at.

I agree. It was definitely the right thing to do.

Burglars are the scum of the earth. The lad there clearly looked as suspect as they come. Hooded scall climbing through the window of someone you know lives alone? 999 is the correct call every time.

A genuine call in good faith. If the son is any kind of decent lad he'll be grateful someone had his mum's back in that situation.

[rob1966]

I agree. It was definitely the right thing to do.

Burglars are the scum of the earth. The lad there clearly looked as suspect as they come. Hooded scall climbing through the window of someone you know lives alone? 999 is the correct call every time.

A genuine call in good faith. If the son is any kind of decent lad he'll be grateful someone had his mum's back in that situation.

And he'll get her some decent windows locks too.

[John C]

Yeah, of course you had to call the bizzies Alpha mate, good job you didn't wade in though, easily done in such circumstances

[Snail]

24 year old lad fighting for his life after being found unconscious outside Central in the early hours. Town is a fucking sad state of affairs yeno.

[Son of Spion]

24 year old lad fighting for his life after being found unconscious outside Central in the early hours. Town is a fucking sad state of affairs yeno.

For me, town is finished as a place to go for a night out. I've had some great (and some dodgy) times there over the years, but I'm done with it now.

As the Strand was shut northbound at night I was redirected through town recently in gridlocked traffic. Hanover St and by Central then Gt. Charlotte St. were full of morons acting up. You also have to drive past a makeshift memorial for a lad murdered over a taxi just recently. Sadly, the place feels like a cesspit now. Every week there seems to be homophobic attacks, knife wounding, gangs intimidating shop workers forcing them to shut up shop, random assaults etc... 

[CraigDS]

Really depends where you go. Stick away from the main twat areas and you can have a nice peaceful night without any trouble.

[AndyMuller]

Went to town last week to a rave in the Baltic market, was sound but the taxi situation took the absolute piss. About a 2 hour wait after walking to the Adelphi, shite.

[Lad]

I remember 'Uncle Stanley' being prevalent amongst some elements back then, particularly football hooligan gangs. As Rob suggested, I think their use was to injure but not kill, though. The difference being today's crew will plunge in with a knife blade, and that has a real chance of hitting a vital organ or artery and killing someone.

I know away fans often feared the appearance of Uncle Stanley at Anfield and, particularly, at Goodison. Man United fan Jobe Henry being the worst I saw. An amateur boxer who never fought again after needing over 200 stitches after being slashed by Blueshite.

To be fair we did the same to many. I remember they badly stanleyed a Barnsley lad near Anfield before a midweek league cup game and that was put all over the papers the next day. Scousers certainly were notorious for it in the 80’s.

[So… Howard Philips]

Went to town last week to a rave in the Baltic market, was sound but the taxi situation took the absolute piss. About a 2 hour wait after walking to the Adelphi, shite.

So nothing's changed then.

50 years ago we used to queue up outside the Blackie for a taxi back home. Mind you once you passed your driving test it was perfectly legal to drink and drive.

Jeez - I often parked in Matthew Street in the often faint hope of offering a couple of girls a lift home.

[Peabee]

I'm at home today in Huyton with a day off, doing housework etc. I'm in the spare room which looks out into the road and noticed this skinny little runt about 20 with his hood up peering through the window of the house opposite. The owner is a mad cat woman in her early 60s, bit of a recluse. Next thing the lad puts his hand under the window sill, opens it wide and climbs into the living room!

Never seen the kid in my life, he's got his hood up (it is thunder and lightning mind you) so what do I do? Go over myself with a bat and confront him? Nah, I've got my shorts and flip-flops on and its lashing down.
So I phoned 999 for the cops. The girl on the phone seemed more excited than me, "is he in there now?" she was asking, "yeah defo, he hasn't come out, I haven't seen her for a couple of days and I don't recognise the lad" I'm saying.

Fair play within less than two minutes I hear sirens in the distance and this BMW X5 literally skids to a halt outside, followed by another couple of cars and a van. The cops go legging it down the entry, into the front garden, hammered on the door, then climbs through the window. To be honest me arse was going a bit, what if its a lunatic in there who attacks the cops? what if its a legit reason.

Anyway, they emerge with the lad a few minutes later and it turns out he's her son who hasn't been near in years, ooops!

Seriously though, I wouldn't hesitate to do it again. You'll get the ususal suspects going 'grass' etc, but I despise burglars, you should be safe in your own home.

That’s not being a grass mate. I’m sure her son, as long he’s not a prick, is happy someone was watching out for his mum. A grass is reporting someone for doing a bit of work while signing on or calling the police cos your neighbour is having a spliff. Looking out for neighbours being burgled is sound.

[Son of Spion]

24 year old lad fighting for his life after being found unconscious outside Central in the early hours. Town is a fucking sad state of affairs yeno.

Police update today says the victim is a 27 year-old from Northern Ireland and seven males from South Wales have been arrested in connection with the attack.

The victim is still critical in hospital.

[rob1966]

Police update today says the victim is a 27 year-old from Northern Ireland and seven males from South Wales have been arrested in connection with the attack.

The victim is still critical in hospital.

The homophobic attack recently was some c*nt from Bolton. c*nts from elsewhere helping in giving town a bad name.

[So… Howard Philips]

Police update today says the victim is a 27 year-old from Northern Ireland and seven males from South Wales have been arrested in connection with the attack.

The victim is still critical in hospital.

And the arrestees also under investigation for drugs offences.

I suppose this is the danger of you sell the City as a party capital you’ll attract the scum.

[Son of Spion]

Well this is it. We have enough problems with our own minority of scumbags, but we also import an awful lot scumbaggery too, with Liverpool being sold as a party city. Sadly, it's the city itself that gets the tarnished reputation as a result.

It's great that people come here, but like most things, it has a downside too. I'm amazed at the prices some pay to come here too. We have a party house right near us in Sefton Park. It's £3,500 for a three night stay this month, yet it's rammed every weekend now covid restrictions have lifted, and it was always rammed pre-covid too, with stag and hen groups. That's before they go into town and spend money there too.

[CraigDS]

I don't think the club advertisers itself as a party city any more than any other city does. I said in another thread the other day that in recent weeks I've been out in Manchester, London and Liverpool and all of them were full of stag, hens and big groups.

[OOS]

I don't think the club advertisers itself as a party city any more than any other city does. I said in another thread the other day that in recent weeks I've been out in Manchester, London and Liverpool and all of them were full of stag, hens and big groups.

People haven't been able to go away, so they are going to the northern cities for their weekends away I reckon. There does seem to be more out of towners on nights out recently.

[ianburns252]

It is highly likely that things have changed over the last 10 years but I always remember the city having an edge to it on a night out that I have come across significantly less frequently (if at all) in other cities that I've lived.

There often felt like there was an aggressive undertone to things - day or night - just waiting to snap and I can't put my finger on why it is like that. Its unnecessary.

Weirdly, the perception that 80-90% of people I've come across over the years have of the city is that it is this brilliantly friendly place where everyone is best friends with each other - I can certainly say that wasn't how I found it growing up - very interesting how the perception can differ so much.

[Indomitable_Carp]

In my experience every big Northern city where I´ve had a night out has a similar edge, and they all draw similar crowds of stag and hens do´s, locals and people coming in from smaller surrounding towns. In fact of all the cities I´ve visited I would say Newcastle is the worst I have seen for casual drunken Saturday night violence. I have always managed to avoid fights after all my years of going out in Liverpool, but was randomly attacked twice in Newcastle and definitely not looking for it.

But in all of these cities, Liverpool included, I would say that edge tends to be restricted to certain areas (Liverpool around Concert Square and Matthew Street, Newcastle around the Bigg Market etc). Or at least it was - don´t know how it is now!

[ianburns252]

In my experience every big Northern city where I´ve had a night out has a similar edge, and they all draw similar crowds of stag and hens do´s, locals and people coming in from smaller surrounding towns. In fact of all the cities I´ve visited I would say Newcastle is the worst I have seen for casual drunken Saturday night violence. I have always managed to avoid fights after all my years of going out in Liverpool, but was randomly attacked twice in Newcastle and definitely not looking for it.

But in all of these cities, Liverpool included, I would say that edge tends to be restricted to certain areas (Liverpool around Concert Square and Matthew Street, Newcastle around the Bigg Market etc). Or at least it was - don´t know how it is now!

Maybe I've just been lucky but Leeds, Sheffield, and Manchester have always felt less likely to snap. That said it is probably skewed by where in the cities named I've been around and at what times of day/night mixed in with the age at which most of my memories in each city were developed has had an impact.

[CraigDS]

Lived in Manchester city centre for nearly 8 years (and go out there often) and always felt it was more moody than Liverpool, and seen much more trouble there too.

Echo the above about Newcastle too, been out there a handful of times and every time I've seen loads of trouble.

Lived in Liverpool city centre for nearly 5yrs now and out quite often, and only seen/experienced trouble once and that was a rare visit to Matthew St. I avoid Concert Sq at all costs so that maybe skews things though.

[B0151?]

I've lived in Crosby/Waterloo all my life and found going out locally, definitely South Road, much more moody and bad vibes than town to be honest. Never had any trouble in town. I've seen the odd scene like and yeah there's some people you don't want to lock eyes with but that seems pretty standard for any place where people are getting wasted really.

It's interesting to hear other people's perspectives and I consider myself fortunate though.

[Son of Spion]

I've lived in Crosby/Waterloo all my life and found going out locally, definitely South Road, much more moody and bad vibes than town to be honest. Never had any trouble in town. I've seen the odd scene like and yeah there's some people you don't want to lock eyes with but that seems pretty standard for any place where people are getting wasted really.

It's interesting to hear other people's perspectives and I consider myself fortunate though.

I used to live off Oxford Road, Waterloo in the 80s. Always loved Crosby and it felt safe. South Road was ok too, but I don't bother with it now. I think it suffers because a lot of pubs on or near estates have closed down. I know the KRS gang from Litherland started drinking on South Road and a bar had to close down because of them. I think the places still open now import troublemakers from elsewhere, now their own traditional watering holes have all gone.

I still drive down South Road at night and it does have a moody vibe at times.

[Son of Spion]

Maybe I've just been lucky but Leeds, Sheffield, and Manchester have always felt less likely to snap. That said it is probably skewed by where in the cities named I've been around and at what times of day/night mixed in with the age at which most of my memories in each city were developed has had an impact.

I've not been to Sheffield, but have had nights out in Manchester and Leeds. We really enjoyed Leeds, and we rate that just behind Bristol for cities we've enjoyed. Manchester, on the other hand, we hated. Apart from the gay village the vibe was horrible. We won't spend our money there anymore, and often travel quite far to see bands we could have seen in Manchester.

There is good and bad everywhere, of course, and trouble is often a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Vibe wise though, we can't be doing with Manchester. Even people I know who live nearer to Manchester than Liverpool much prefer to come here for a night out than go into Manchester and, despite the issues we have here, they still see Liverpool as much safer and with a more friendly vibe.

[Pistolero]

There often felt like there was an aggressive undertone to things - day or night - just waiting to snap and I can't put my finger on why it is like that. Its unnecessary.

I've lived in town periodically - and drank in town all my life and Ive never felt that undertone....where are you referring to exactly?...

[Pistolero]

Never been anywhere as moody as Manchester btw...dark satanic mills + Rusholme Ruffians = shithole central

strangely, I've always found Chester and even Southport to be shady as fuck ....and on our travels around the UK with our racing club, everyone agrees that Doncaster stands out as the menacing air-of-violence capital of all the Racecourse towns...there seemed to be a kick-off or an imminent kick-off in almost every bar we were in..the locals seemed to just take it for granted 

[Crosby Nick]

I’ve said this a few time I think but any medium sized town can feel dodgy on a night out. Concentrated areas to booze in and enough knobheads to make things edgy or just people looking for a kick off.

[rob1966]

I've not been to Sheffield, but have had nights out in Manchester and Leeds. We really enjoyed Leeds, and we rate that just behind Bristol for cities we've enjoyed. Manchester, on the other hand, we hated. Apart from the gay village the vibe was horrible. We won't spend our money there anymore, and often travel quite far to see bands we could have seen in Manchester.

There is good and bad everywhere, of course, and trouble is often a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Vibe wise though, we can't be doing with Manchester. Even people I know who live nearer to Manchester than Liverpool much prefer to come here for a night out than go into Manchester and, despite the issues we have here, they still see Liverpool as much safer and with a more friendly vibe.

My missus has always preferred going out in Liverpool, she hates Manc City Centre. We actually met in the First National after a Blackburn game in 2006, introduced by a mutual friend.

Never been anywhere as moody as Manchester btw...dark satanic mills + Rusholme Ruffians = shithole central

strangely, I've always found Chester and even Southport to be shady as fuck ....and on our travels around the UK with our racing club, everyone agrees that Doncaster stands out as the menacing air-of-violence capital of all the Racecourse towns...there seemed to be a kick-off or an imminent kick-off in almost every bar we were in..the locals seemed to just take it for granted 

Lived in Southport for 20 years, full of little shithouses who are hard a fuck in a group and piss their kecks on their own. Luckily I'm into Rock, so our nights out didn't involve having to deal with the fucking idiots, but seen a few kick offs when I've ended up in the Scarisbrick or the academy when out with people from work. The fast food places were a laugh though with our kid, he's a hard bastard, not scared of anyone and used to love getting into the "hardest stare" contests with the little gobshites.

Lad at work went to Ripon once with a group of his mates and the owner of the B&B they stayed in said under no circumstances go out in 'Boro. His brother ended up in hospital and he got a black eye off a woman.

[ianburns252]

I've lived in town periodically - and drank in town all my life and Ive never felt that undertone....where are you referring to exactly?...

So I grew up in Crosby and you'd have, as people said, South Road being notoriously bad, then you would have the lads around there who would add an extra 30% to everything to make up for not being "proper scouse" as Crosby often got called.

Closer to town, you'd see the feral groups around St John's through Central up to Concert Sq, sometimes before Liverpool One was built they'd be knocking around that end of town but those were usually just trying to get a scrap out of the skaters up that end.

Agree with your shout on Southport though - when we used to go to FUBAR it wasn't bad but Havana and a couple of others were a scrappy.

[jack witham]

Interesting read this thread.

Always felt safe boozing in Liverpool.

Chester can be dodgy especially when the races are on.

But without doubt the worst place to go on a night out is Birkenhead.

Never seen so many wannabe gangsters in my life.

I avoid like the plague the delights of Birkenhead.

[Crosby Nick]

Interesting read this thread.

Always felt safe boozing in Liverpool.

Chester can be dodgy especially when the races are on.

But without doubt the worst place to go on a night out is Birkenhead.

Never seen so many wannabe gangsters in my life.

I avoid like the plague the delights of Birkenhead.

Have you tried St Helens.