Topic: THE WALK OUT ON 77 MINUTES AT THE SUNDERLAND MATCH

[davidsteventon]

Too right it was. The feeling of solidarity and noise as we walked from the main stand around to the back of the Kop is the best feeling I've had as a supporter for years. Felt 25feet tall.

It's what following and supporting your team is all about isn't it - standing with likeminded people - people that would fight for you and you would for them.
Those that go for a day out will never ever understand that feeling.

[Pistolero]

The "I'm alright Jack" mob.My break with a lot of our support came with the criticism of Rafa and the refusal to speak out against the other Yanks.Is anyone surprised we have snakes on our midst? We've seen this all before. They haven't learnt their lesson in spite of the club being at deaths door. They never will.

would hate to be on a life raft with some of the c*nts on here.....you'd have to do all the rowing yourself....and if you fell asleep, all the fuckin biscuits would be gone by the time you woke up....

[uppercentenary92]

One of the next Live games - No Red scarfs, JUST BLACK. head to toe, and black scarfs and black banners. A full blown walk on before during and after the games, live everywhere with just a wall of black. No Red in sight. More than once so they don't miss it.

[Graham Smith]

Those that left yesterday were also making the point that the financial management of this Club needs to be looked at and this includes how it negotiates players' contracts and wages and manages its player recruitment.

Those that stayed didn't contribute to making that point, they were affirming the status quo. The irony.

[John C]

Or it could be that those people had a different point of view. That they disagreed with walking out. Could be they thought this is not a one-club issue or that it is not the fault of the owners.

That's fair enough mate, everyone stressed early in the organisation of it that is very much an individual choice. So I suppose the only way you'd have felt that togetherness would have been part of the exiting group going down the stairs and on the the streets singing on mass.

You're correct, it's not a one club overall problem but to sacrifice 13 minutes of a game was an opportunity not to be mossed to illustrate how fans can create a back-lash. And on this occasion it is the owners fault isn't it? They've endorsed the pricing strategy.

FSG never said they would pump money into the club.

That's not what this is about though is it? It about an equilibrium of ticket prices not about seeking damaging investment. For the record, I actually like FSG and I'd argue they've made funds available to what seems now a failing transfer committee.

So what next?

Hopefully some clarification from the club but otherwise I haven't a clue mate, but the start for some people was yesterday - what's next for you? Are you doing anything?

but the fault here lies with players dragging millions out of the fans' pocket, not the owners. Average player wages for just one player last year? More than the increase in general admission income from these changes.

Yep, football has become an obscene industry and I'd love to see the bubble burst. Yesterdays protest can't fix footballs fuck-ups or reverse how the FA and Premier League have allowed the game to gorge greedily from the fans pockets, but it's a showing of defiance about the continual acceptance of avarice across this country.
It may not work, it may fail miserably within weeks and those that sit opposite my seat in the lower CT will get shafted, but me, my lad and thousands of others told the world yesterday that its fucking stinks.
And like many others have said, I stand by my point that those that sat with their hands under their arse missed the solidarity of the event and failed those that needed support.

[Millie]

Or it could be that those people had a different point of view. That they disagreed with walking out. Could be they thought this is not a one-club issue or that it is not the fault of the owners. It could be they thought that bringing player costs down as the owners have is on the way to keeping ticket prices level or less where they can. Could be they think it's right to pay more for better seats as a way of balancing the books.

FSG never said they would pump money into the club. They came here, looked at the way it used to be done back in Peter Robinson's and the like's day. Looked at the Liverpool Way and will have realised that the game has moved beyond that. They've seen H&G and their gung-ho, I've got no money my own and no idea how to get any world and that the resources of local business magnates won't do any more and understood that if the club wants to stay at the top, it has to manage costs and carefully manage the finances of the club. They saw that as very much their responsibility. It's their money at risk. Hundreds of millions of it. Not ours. We may say the supporters are the club but without the backing, the club cannot carry on. And yes, there's new stands to pay for. It's what the supporters wanted and to an extent, what the club needed.

Could be they've realised now, that all that doesn't work. That the 'best' players increasing demands for ever more is insatiable and that the level of income required from all reasonable resources, including bigger TV deals, better Commercial and a modest increase in GA Matchday Revenue doesn't cover it. Could be why Suarez, Raheem Sterling and Sturbridge have and will jump ship. Could be why we're scrabbling around the Southampton's of the world for not so decent Centre Backs. Could be the owners will have had enough. That's where Ayre will be coming from when the supporters are asked to be careful what they wish for. Not an empty threat. Just a statement of reality.

So what next? The supporters have failed to show they can buy the club when they had the perfect opportunity and every word since has shown they can't run it. Yet some won't let it go. They cling on to the idea that they can front up to the Glaziers and the Abramovitches and the whatever of wherever. It's gone beyond Littlewoods and beyond the supporters. No-one else credible wanted it when it was up for grabs.

So here we are again. Fighting owners. This time, owners working with the way it is, not pretending they have money to burn or raking off huge profits. Meanwhile, Carra walks out on the 77th minute and Gary Lineker sees no reason why a £10 ticket won't work (well he's had his money).

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't pay to be one of the 200 paying £77 at category A matches but then again I wouldn't pay £77 to see anything. I'm that tight. I begrudge the £45. Particularly when that money mostly ends up in the back pocket of some geezer I've never heard of the year before doing a crap job in defence at several multiples a week of what most can earn in a year or, even in the bank account of the best player on the planet. They simply aren't worth rocking up for at those prices.

Owners, Managers, Players come and go. Supporters have a life sentence. We enjoy and we have to endure and that gives us our say but the fault here lies with players dragging millions out of the fans' pocket, not the owners. Average player wages for just one player last year? More than the increase in general admission income from these changes.

With all due respect that sounds like a propaganda piece written by someone who works for FSG

[CHOPPER]

This is very disappointing. I would of thought Alan F and John C, the octogenarians of the consonant world, would of hobbled out at least.


Shame on you two.

[rojo para la vida]

Istanbul changed out fan base. Previous to that I think that in a similar situation there would have been a majority of people taking part in a similar protest.

I sometimes wonder where we'd be without Istanbul, possibly in Newcastle's situation but would we be happier supporters or even more miserable feckers?. Those new fans to some extent are part and parcel of us being perceived as a 'big' club but so many don't get what it really means to support our club it's frightening. My son lives in London and I was there on a visit a few days ago and he took me to a so called Liverpool pub where he'd heard that the owners were big fans to watch the League Cup semi. There were a few pictures and scarves up but in a corner of the bar were some complimentary newspapers, amongst them a copy of the scum. I sort of wasted 5 minutes of my life explaining why it shouldn't be there but it went over their heads. Priest in a bowl of sugar came to mind.

Anyhow hats off to everyone who did the right thing yesterday and put their fellow supporters first. It's received decent coverage and is a massive step forward.

[jooneyisdagod]

I think Peter has diagnosed the issue here correctly. If football clubs have wage to turnover ratios that are near or more than 50%, then someone has to foot the bill and it's been the fans for so long. Now with the influx of fresh cash into the league, I really think fans of clubs across the league should get together and demand a reduction in prices. Targeting only FSG to me, at least, seems to miss the point slightly. However, get fans of every club to get together and protest in unison and things might actually work.

[alonsoisared]

Was proud of our supporters yesterday. I've been pretty disillusioned with our support for a while as we have slowly slipped into being 'just another club', but yesterday showed that heart is still there. Liverpool have always lead the way with stuff like this and it's one of my favourite traits about the city- always standing together and not taking anything lying down. I was pissed off when I heard Sunderland had pulled it back but yesterday was all about showing that togetherness and saying we won't be pushed around, and that's what we achieved.

Massive well done to those who arranged this and those that left.

[L666KOP]

Is it fair to say that FSG have to be transparent when accounts time comes around ?

Is it fair to say they put pretty much what we make back into the club ?

They could then, make every ticket 50 pence. It makes no odds to them. What happens when our transfer budget drops by 30 million though ?

[Mutton Geoff]

I'm Canadian, I have a read a lot about the club and I know how I feel about the club, I won't bore anyone by going into real detail here.

I was just hoping this club had turned a corner towards more enjoyment over football, and it still might, but a lot of people don't relish the seemingly endless fight as much as others. This fanbase has done enough fighting to last, honestly, for centuries compared to your random Canadian team. I absolutely believe it was a good thing to do, but it's sad that it has to happen again. I personally relish the light at the end of the tunnel more, but still deeply appreciate how real this club is.

Just to clarify this wasn't aimed at any other Canadian than the Troll i replied to ,  i was over in Toronto last year and saw quite a few of our shirts being worn.

[jooneyisdagod]

With all due respect that sounds like a propaganda piece written by someone who works for FSG

He's absolutely right, though. No money is going into FSG's pockets. We've just about posted a profit for the first time in ages and it wasn't a huge profit. We barely broke even and had a little bit on top.

[Graham Smith]

Is it fair to say that FSG have to be transparent when accounts time comes around ?

Is it fair to say they put pretty much what we make back into the club ?

They could then, make every ticket 50 pence. It makes no odds to them. What happens when our transfer budget drops by 30 million though ?

No one is looking for an adjustment to be £30m though.

[Millie]

He's absolutely right, though. No money is going into FSG's pockets. We've just about posted a profit for the first time in ages and it wasn't a huge profit. We barely broke even and had a little bit on top.

That may be the case bit his piece read like that

[Mutton Geoff]

Is it fair to say that FSG have to be transparent when accounts time comes around ?

Is it fair to say they put pretty much what we make back into the club ?

They could then, make every ticket 50 pence. It makes no odds to them. What happens when our transfer budget drops by 30 million though ?

30 Million you say then it would be the same or even more than Leicester's and they don't seem to be doing to badly on it. Its not the amount of money you throw at transfers its buying the right people.

Unless you think the match goers need to pay a massive price for their ticket so you can get some marquee player to drool over.

In the end with the TV and Commercial side i don't think Ticket prices really affect our Transfer Budget at all so for me your premise is bogus .

[L666KOP]

No one is looking for an adjustment to be £30m though.

It was just an arbritary number Graham.

You know what I mean, they aren't taking our pants down and syphoning money out are they ?
The cuts will impinge somewhere, and it will be on what we spend.

The issue isn't how we make the money, it's how we've spent it.

[kopite77]

would hate to be on a life raft with some of the c*nts on here.....you'd have to do all the rowing yourself....and if you fell asleep, all the fuckin biscuits would be gone by the time you woke up....

I think some of the beaut's on here would fucking throw you off if you fell asleep, they'd class you as dead weight, I'm Kop season ticket holder, but couldn't go yesterday I told my mate who is season ticket holder next to me to take his lad and explained about 77 minutes, they both left, this price hike doesn't affect us are tickets are staying the same, but that is not the point, this is classic divide and conquer tactics and fucking stinks. If this does happen again l will make sure I'm there to take part, I was there at the sit in against H&G when the Owl was here, funnily enough that was against Sunderland as well, well done everyone you did us all proud. Y.N.W.A. 

[Dave D]

He's absolutely right, though. No money is going into FSG's pockets. We've just about posted a profit for the first time in ages and it wasn't a huge profit. We barely broke even and had a little bit on top.

Let's stop the bullshit about FSG being some kind of altruistic knights in shining armour. Of course they make/take money from the club. FSM makes money on every commercial deal made, it's one on the main reasons they're here.

[Graham Smith]

He's absolutely right, though. No money is going into FSG's pockets. We've just about posted a profit for the first time in ages and it wasn't a huge profit. We barely broke even and had a little bit on top.

The Club has been 'profitable' since they've been here. The problem, partly of their own making due to poor due diligence, was that they had a black hole to deal with that they didn't recognise when they bought the Club.

They have had to fill that black hole in and it has taken them a few years to do so. The hole related to the costs of stadium change from H&G, in the Club's accounts as an asset when in fact it was a liability. If you leave that to one side (which you couldn't to be fair) the Club has always been profitable.

[Graham Smith]

It was just an arbritary number Graham.

You know what I mean, they aren't taking our pants down and syphoning money out are they ?
The cuts will impinge somewhere, and it will be on what we spend.

The issue isn't how we make the money, it's how we've spent it.

The required sum to make things fairer wouldn't make any difference to our competiveness.

[Only Me]

He's absolutely right, though. No money is going into FSG's pockets. We've just about posted a profit for the first time in ages and it wasn't a huge profit. We barely broke even and had a little bit on top.

Yep, no money at all. In fact, they're a registered charity, devoted entirely to making Franchise fans more happy.

Nothing in it at all for them. Its not like they're just sitting about 3000 miles away watching their investment value grow like topsy is it?

No idea what all this fuss is about.

[L666KOP]

The required sum to make things fairer wouldn't make any difference to our competiveness.

Being more astute in how we buy players is the easiest route to that Graham.

But that's a different argument, the bottom line will always be the bottom line, and our spend will be determined by what we make. I'm not here to champion our owners, but whilst they're running an honest business model the argument needs to be balanced, and fair.

[Mutton Geoff]

The Club has been 'profitable' since they've been here. The problem, partly of their own making due to poor due diligence, was that they had a black hole to deal with that they didn't recognise when they bought the Club.

They have had to fill that black hole in and it has taken them a few years to do so. The hole related to the costs of stadium change from H&G, in the Club's accounts as an asset when in fact it was a liability. If you leave that to one side (which you couldn't to be fair) the Club has always been profitable.

You have to wonder at what Ayre actually knows about FSG and the deal, because most of the problems emanate from his bad decision making or his lack of tact with the Fanbase, and FSG employing him,  Ayre would and should have been sacked or moved sideways by any shadow of doubt so i can only conclude that he knows where all the bodies are buried.

His inflammatory remarks over this issue were so badly judged yet again.

[Bunter]

The club was in a mess from H&G but let's be clear here, FSG bought a massively undervalued "asset" for a song. Cleared the toxic debt from the cowboys and then just gave anyone with plenty of ££££ a chance to slap their name on it. They'll probably sell it on for a massive profit after rinsing every revunue stream possible.

[G1 Jockey 4(betfair)]

Was quite proud when i saw people walk out but no where near enough walked.
what happened to the militancy this city was known for?
Infiltrated by too many tories?

[jooneyisdagod]

Let's stop the bullshit about FSG being some kind of altruistic knights in shining armour. Of course they make/take money from the club. FSM makes money on every commercial deal made, it's one on the main reasons they're here.

Maybe I'm missing something, but can you explain how FSG are taking money out? I'm asking genuinely. Posted below is the Swissramble article about our finances. Now apart from it not indicating FSG taking any money out of club, it shows that in terms of match day revenues as a part of the overall revenues of the club, we're more or less in line what most other clubs are making, including the German ones. The English clubs though make much more money from match day revenue than Liverpool, with Man City being the exception and that's because of their *cough cough* commercial deals.

http://swissramble.blogspot.com.au/2015/03/liverpool-show-of-strength.html

[Upinsmoke]

You know what the kicker will be, when they announce there massive sponsorship for naming the stand. Then 2 million looks like fucking peanuts in comparison.

2 million is fuck all, but for people who are obsessed with money and greed it's not. It's like rich pricks won't give money to the homeless round town, yet someone who has a bit of spare change in there pocket will. Greedy, tight c*nts.

[jooneyisdagod]

Yep, no money at all. In fact, they're a registered charity, devoted entirely to making Franchise fans more happy.

Nothing in it at all for them. Its not like they're just sitting about 3000 miles away watching their investment value grow like topsy is it?

No idea what all this fuss is about.

Sure, the value of their investment grows, but they're not actively taking money out of the club or selling players to reduce losses.

[ScubaSteve]

Was quite proud when i saw people walk out but no where near enough walked.
what happened to the militancy this city was known for?
Infiltrated by too many tories?

Simple answer.....the people of liverpool probably did walk out plus the loyal outsiders but the others were probably day trippers

wouldn't have expected anyone with young kids to walk out. Every season ticket holder should have!

[Graham Smith]

Maybe I'm missing something, but can you explain how FSG are taking money out? I'm asking genuinely. Posted below is the Swissramble article about our finances. Now apart from it not indicating FSG taking any money out of club, it shows that in terms of match day revenues as a part of the overall revenues of the club, we're more or less in line what most other clubs are making, including the German ones. The English clubs though make much more money from match day revenue than Liverpool, with Man City being the exception and that's because of their *cough cough* commercial deals.

http://swissramble.blogspot.com.au/2015/03/liverpool-show-of-strength.html

LFC is part of the FSG stable.

They don't load debt on to LFC but they leverage their assets in the US within FSG (including LFC) allowing them to invest in all sorts.

Not immoral, not illegal but let's not have any nonsense that they aren't making money off the back of LFC on a daily basis.

[Graham Smith]

Sure, the value of their investment grows, but they're not actively taking money out of the club or selling players to reduce losses.

They're actively reducing the wage bill.

Which can be argued was too high. I'd say it was badly targeted.

[vblfc]

OOT and don't post often.  Watched on a stream before and after the protest.  Have been supporting since 1960s.

So proud of those that walked.  Quite emotional for me to see. YNWA before was spot on.

Here's a strange thing on reflection - Somehow it makes sense the team collapsed - that free kick shows half empty Kop behind,  and it is seen many times worldwide (by chancers like me for example).  Hard to admit for some I understand,  but worth it every time.  If we won 2 nil - not such a story for the press rats.

It is clear to me that Ayre is the eye of the storm on this one.  He's got a profile I struggle with - and for sure he has a "budget" agreed with FSG for pricing.  In that budget a couple of millions is peanuts.  He has typical Sales and commercial persona -  Ayre isn't strong, but probably wants to tell a good story to the bosses.  He's the place to focus I think if change is to happen.

As an aside - my tinfoil hat was in overdrive for last 15 mins regarding Sturridge - On the bench with a chance to come on last 10 mins.  Wonder did this sway some to hang about?  Sure I'm wrong about that, but made me think.

Saw some posts about Germany (Munich as example).  I get to go to a few games in Germany.  Prices are low across the league and it is very clear that real supporters are there for every team, every game - its amazing to watch the ultra fans, clearly not Corporate types, normal local fans with passion can afford to go.  For Germany it seems it's the whole system  and someone from our club (& maybe all Prem clubs) needs to look at this - not so much about players salaries etc, more like a cultural understanding that the clubs belong to the city first I think.  Priority is not to rip off the fans. And Munich still make a load and have top players.  It can be done.  Klopp and the guys will know the score about it.

Anyway - just some feedback and ideas - Well done lads -  you hit the mark....and for those who are upset we lost the lead - it really isn't relevant in context.  This was such special circumstances that it actually makes sense.

[jooneyisdagod]

LFC is part of the FSG stable.

They don't load debt on to LFC but they leverage their assets in the US within FSG (including LFC) allowing them to invest in all sorts.

Not immoral, not illegal but let's not have any nonsense that they aren't making money off the back of LFC on a daily basis.

I haven't said they're not making money off LFC though. If they were to sit back and watch their investment grow in value, without doing anything, they would still be making money off LFC's back. I simply said that they aren't taking money from LFC's revenue streams to line their own pockets.

They're actively reducing the wage bill.

Which can be argued was too high. I'd say it was badly targeted.

Personally, I think the wage bill rather than being too high was being poorly spent. We've done nothing as a club to change that and it appears the wage bill though lower than before is still being poorly spent. That's something for the recruitment team to sort out.

[number 168]

It is ironic the the porno barons who run West Ham have an understanding of what this is all about. They deliberately refused to hike prices of tickets to the Olympic Stadium as the margin  would not make much difference to their overall income, recognizing that TV money is the driver and supporters inside the stadium is what the club is all about. I'm not defending Gold and co who aren't people I'd want to go for a pint with, but at least they have a glimmer of understanding.

[Barneylfc∗]

Simple answer.....the people of liverpool probably did walk out plus the loyal outsiders but the others were probably day trippers

wouldn't have expected anyone with young kids to walk out. Every season ticket holder should have!

Estimates of 10k walked out. In a crowd of 44k, that leaves 34k. Are you saying that you believe that 34k was made up of day trippers and people with kids? You don't think any local sat on their arse because they've paid their money to see 90 minutes?

[Chris~]

It is ironic the the porno barons who run West Ham have an understanding of what this is all about. They deliberately refused to hike prices of tickets to the Olympic Stadium as the margin  would not make much difference to their overall income, recognizing that TV money is the driver and supporters inside the stadium is what the club is all about. I'm not defending Gold and co who aren't people I'd want to go for a pint with, but at least they have a glimmer of understanding.

They raised the prices pre-move and know that they don't have the fanbase to fill a stadium that size with continued ticket price raises. They'd be raising them if they had our sized fanbase at West Ham.

[Spongebob Redpants]

Was quite proud when i saw people walk out but no where near enough walked.
what happened to the militancy this city was known for?
Infiltrated by too many tories?

10 to 15 thousand walked out for a protest organised a few days before ? Fuckin impressive in my eyes !

[Peter McGurk]

With all due respect that sounds like a propaganda piece written by someone who works for FSG

With all due respect, it's my opinion. Sorry it's different from yours but that's no excuse to dismiss it as if written by someone else.

That's the other thing that's happened - it has divided the fans. Everyone wants to pay a lower price but attacking the owners for the way the game is is counter-productive. Now the fans are harming the club when they should be united across the piece to have a go at the real problem.

Players who play for money and only for money and the more the merrier. 'Back in the day', the day everyone harks back to, when all was good, players were happy to play, supporters were happy to support and owner where happy to own. It's the players (pushed by certain megalomaniac owners and a rapacious FA) who are taking the mick and more and then a bit more besides.

If the TV deals are huge now and getting huge next, you know where that money's going. To players? Yes - watch those costs rocket because 'they're worth it'. How are they? How can they take more from you than, I don't know, Rush did or Dalglish? To owners? No. LFC earned less than one half of one per cent profit last time for the first time in seven years. How many other club make any profit of any kind? On the fingers of one hand?

[kcbworth]

And for once it puts paid to the Locals V OOTs shite that gets said by so many fucking fuckwits - loads of OOTs walked. Loads of Scousers didn't.

Well done everyone. You did your CLUB proud.