Author Topic: Freedom of speech  (Read 45154 times)

Offline Veinticinco de Mayo

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Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #520 on: January 23, 2015, 06:53:21 PM »
I think it depends a lot on the teacher you had, we had a Mr Murphy for History and rest assured the Famine was properly covered as part of our British and European History 1789-1871 O level syllabus along with other British misdeeds of the period.
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Offline macca888

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Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #521 on: January 23, 2015, 06:57:42 PM »
It took the Brits 150 years to apologise for the Famine.

I suppose there is a positive in it all, like so many others in or from Liverpool, I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for the Famine or certainly the post Famine era forcing some of my distant ancestors on my Mums side to leave.


To be fair though, in an attempt to even things out a little, Ireland still hasn't apologised for sending any of my family over.
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Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #522 on: January 23, 2015, 07:01:48 PM »

To be fair though, in an attempt to even things out a little, Ireland still hasn't apologised for sending any of my family over.

I don't think they've apologized for their sending the CB's over here yet..... ;)
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Offline zero zero

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Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #523 on: January 23, 2015, 07:06:17 PM »
I think Germany's openness about their past is the exception rather than the norm.
Might have been a different story had the Nazi's won the war.

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Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #524 on: January 23, 2015, 07:11:35 PM »
Might have been a different story had the Nazi's won the war.

Possibly, but not necessarily so as there may well have been a subsequent internal revolution and the emergence of a more Liberal regime with a willingness to confront and recognize terrible past misdeeds,  but I'll stop there as we could be in danger of going seriously off beam on a complete Alt History tangent...
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Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #525 on: January 23, 2015, 07:19:01 PM »
Possibly, but not necessarily so as there may well have been a subsequent internal revolution and the emergence of a more Liberal regime with a willingness to confront and recognize terrible past misdeeds,  but I'll stop there as we could be in danger of going seriously off beam on a complete Alt History tangent...
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Offline macca888

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Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #526 on: January 23, 2015, 07:31:20 PM »
I don't think they've apologized for their sending the CB's over here yet..... ;)


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Offline Broad Spectrum

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Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #527 on: January 23, 2015, 10:46:08 PM »
The 'other' holocaust? What about Rwanda? Cambodia? Ukraine? Congo? and so on... I'm not sure what point you are making.

And it's disingenuous to say that the Armenian genocide is not officially recognised by the UK. Various governments acknowledge the massacres but do not agree they are genocide by definition. And what does that have to do with freedom of speech in this country?

The fact that you hadn't heard about it before suggests the problem may not be freedom of speech but lack of interest.

The Armenian genocide has been referred to as a holocaust, given the sheer number of people brutally murdered, and even by Jews themselves (I can't find a source online for this but I have 100% read this in a book). The key difference with the examples you raised however is that they've been recognised by the perpetrators, maybe with the exception of the African countries. However, given their resources and standing in the World, it's not surprising. The UN made both Russia and Ukraine sign an agreement to recognise the events in the 1930's under the old Soviet regime, and the UN have prosecuted top figures of the Khmer Rouge.

And how is this disingenuous? It's quite simple, ministers refusing to refer to the events as a genocide is clear failure to recognise it as such, and they represent the British Government!

Quote
However, in recent years, the FCO has briefed ministers to call the events a “tragedy” but to deny genocide because “the evidence is not sufficiently unequivocal” – an oxymoronic term (something is either unequivocal or it is not).

And this doesn't have direct implications on freedom of speech amongst the general population of the UK, but don't you think ministers being advised not to refer to the Armenian genocide as a genocide is in itself a denial of freedom of speech due to the potential ramifications on their career? We're not talking about opinions here, we're talking about the fact that an event where over 1 million civilians were systematically slaughtered cannot be referred to as a genocide.

Anyway that aside, the general Turkish population can be prosecuted and imprisoned for openly discussing and implying the Turkish empire/government was responsible for the Armenian genocide. That is a clear denial of freedom of speech. Given everything going on at the moment with regards to freedom of speech, it disgusts me how such a powerful player on the World stage is openly able to deny any involvement in the first major genocide of the 20th Century.

I think a lack of interest is definitely a factor, however equally I think Turkey's refusal to accept the genocide is the main driver on that front. Even in Obama's presidential campaign in 2008, he constantly claimed how he would recognise the Armenian genocide though as that article I posted eluded to, he hasn't dared mention the 'g' word since he took office.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2015, 10:48:55 PM by Broad Spectrum »

Offline Broad Spectrum

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Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #528 on: January 23, 2015, 10:59:51 PM »
It took the Brits 150 years to apologise for the Famine.

It did, and that was disgusting. But British academics weren't imprisoned for teaching it in the 20th Century. And the British government accepted there was a famine and countless of the Irish died, they just denied the British were involved.

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Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #529 on: January 24, 2015, 12:58:40 AM »

Offline GreatEx

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Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #530 on: January 24, 2015, 01:22:45 AM »
You mean I could've got away with the potato gag I voluntarily self-censored.  Damnit.

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Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #531 on: January 24, 2015, 01:36:27 AM »
Saw Sadowitz tonight, did a lot of risque jokes about fucking kids, Muslims (mentalists), the N-word. Possibly one of the most liberal, left-wing comedians out there.
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Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #532 on: January 24, 2015, 09:33:23 AM »
Saw Sadowitz tonight, did a lot of risque jokes about fucking kids, Muslims (mentalists), the N-word. Possibly one of the most liberal, left-wing comedians out there.

Love him. I was trying to find some of his stuff online to use in this thread. There is nothing at all available, he's got his material completely locked down.

Offline viteslesrouges

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Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #533 on: January 24, 2015, 12:01:14 PM »
The 'other' holocaust? What about Rwanda? Cambodia? Ukraine? Congo? and so on... I'm not sure what point you are making.

And it's disingenuous to say that the Armenian genocide is not officially recognised by the UK. Various governments acknowledge the massacres but do not agree they are genocide by definition. And what does that have to do with freedom of speech in this country?

The fact that you hadn't heard about it before suggests the problem may not be freedom of speech but lack of interest.

There is an irony in that Alan, that Raphael Lemkin based the concept of the crime, which later became known as genocide, on the destruction of the Ottoman Armenians, 1.5 million from an estimated 2 million perished in the period 1915-1923.


Death March towards the Syrian deserts.

The Armenian term is "The Great Catastrophe" and I don't know any Armenian family which was untouched by it and the lasting pain is the continuation of Turkey to persist with the 8th stage of genocide, which is denial.

One hundred years later, Turkey and it's partner Azerbaijan, continues the genocide with it's annihilation of any signs of Armenian and Assyrian presence in their own historic homelands.



21st Century destruction of medieval Armenian graveyard.

http://mareponticum.bscc.duth.gr/index_htm_files/Vol.1.2_Sakayan.pdf

I think the lack of education in the UK and USA on the Armenian Genocide is not a lack of interest but actually due to the geo-political position of Turkey and it's importance to the West.

As regards freedom of speech, any mention of the AG in Turkey is met with severe penalties.
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Offline saoirse08

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Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #534 on: January 24, 2015, 12:01:44 PM »
Flags at half-mast for a corrupt regime which crushes free speech and has had a corrupting effect on business and politics in this country too. Private Eye is involved in a freedom of information
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Offline Tepid T₂O

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Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #535 on: January 24, 2015, 09:08:07 PM »
I pinched this from imperators signature...

In a free state there should be freedom of speech and thought.
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Roman Emperor & General (42 BC - 37 AD)
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Offline LondonRapLondon

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Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #536 on: January 24, 2015, 09:22:14 PM »
What is offensive to religion?

The Buddhas of Bamiyan were blown up because they were idols.



"Muslims should be proud of smashing idols. It has given praise to Allah that we have destroyed them..." "We are destroying the statues in accordance with Islamic law and it is purely a religious issue"

Statues are offensive, cartoons are offensive, homosexuality is offensive... and so on.

There's another narrative to this that I heard from an Afghan guy - I'm not too sure if Jason Burke covered it in his book (he may have but don;t quote me on it as I can't remember)

The Taliban were undergoing a famine in part of Afghanistan and each year they would receive money from the an international organisation (not sure if it was the UN) to maintain those statues. However, that particular year they said they would use that money to feed the people suffering from the famine. That body said no, you can't do that you must use the money for the statues.

The Taliban got pissed off and blew the statues up and declared those people (the international body) care about stones more than people.

Another interesting point, those statues had loads of holes in them - the British soldiers used to use them as target practice back in the day.

Another thing I heard from people who actually lived under the Taliban, women were encouraged not to go out and work in the City as the Taliban had not secured it's safety and thus would give a small amount of money to those women in compensation.

It's really interesting how certain narratives are missed in reporting.

Offline Tepid T₂O

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Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #537 on: January 24, 2015, 09:27:04 PM »
There's another narrative to this that I heard from an Afghan guy - I'm not too sure if Jason Burke covered it in his book (he may have but don;t quote me on it as I can't remember)

The Taliban were undergoing a famine in part of Afghanistan and each year they would receive money from the an international organisation (not sure if it was the UN) to maintain those statues. However, that particular year they said they would use that money to feed the people suffering from the famine. That body said no, you can't do that you must use the money for the statues.

The Taliban got pissed off and blew the statues up and declared those people (the international body) care about stones more than people.

Another interesting point, those statues had loads of holes in them - the British soldiers used to use them as target practice back in the day.

Another thing I heard from people who actually lived under the Taliban, women were encouraged not to go out and work in the City as the Taliban had not secured it's safety and thus would give a small amount of money to those women in compensation.

It's really interesting how certain narratives are missed in reporting.

Yeah, the women who were stoned to death in front of large crowds in the football stadium must think that too.
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Offline LondonRapLondon

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Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #538 on: January 24, 2015, 09:32:38 PM »
Yeah, the women who were stoned to death in front of large crowds in the football stadium must think that too.

Please. What has that got to do with my comment?

I understand there are people in this section of the forum who try to gang up on differing opinions but please, I don't want that.

I simply added the information on this topic I have acquired over the yeas through reading and speaking to people.

I know it's the internet but you and others would not act like this in real life so why do it here?

Be fair.

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Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #539 on: January 24, 2015, 09:44:53 PM »
Please. What has that got to do with my comment?

I understand there are people in this section of the forum who try to gang up on differing opinions but please, I don't want that.

I simply added the information on this topic I have acquired over the yeas through reading and speaking to people.

I know it's the internet but you and others would not act like this in real life so why do it here?

Be fair.
Be fair?

The Taliban murdered women in cold blood for the crime of being seem with a man who was not their relative.

Your post tried to paint them as some benevolent agency.
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Offline GreatEx

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Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #540 on: January 24, 2015, 09:51:41 PM »
In defence of LRL, i wouldn't be surprised if the Taliban had performed one or two benevolent acts. After all, it's not like they set out to become comic book villains of pure unadulterated evil. They probably think they are good people, but their twisted superstition and paranoia drives them to acts of unspeakable cruelty that vastly outweighs their occasional generosity.

Offline LondonRapLondon

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Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #541 on: January 24, 2015, 09:56:12 PM »
Be fair?

Your post tried to paint them as some benevolent agency.

Like you know my intentions. Just shared some info I came across that was germane to the comment.


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Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #542 on: January 24, 2015, 10:04:21 PM »
Like you know my intentions. Just shared some info I came across that was germane to the comment.


Good for you.
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Offline Alan_X

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Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #543 on: January 24, 2015, 10:58:13 PM »
There's another narrative to this that I heard from an Afghan guy - I'm not too sure if Jason Burke covered it in his book (he may have but don;t quote me on it as I can't remember)

The Taliban were undergoing a famine in part of Afghanistan and each year they would receive money from the an international organisation (not sure if it was the UN) to maintain those statues. However, that particular year they said they would use that money to feed the people suffering from the famine. That body said no, you can't do that you must use the money for the statues.

The Taliban got pissed off and blew the statues up and declared those people (the international body) care about stones more than people.

Another interesting point, those statues had loads of holes in them - the British soldiers used to use them as target practice back in the day.

Another thing I heard from people who actually lived under the Taliban, women were encouraged not to go out and work in the City as the Taliban had not secured it's safety and thus would give a small amount of money to those women in compensation.

It's really interesting how certain narratives are missed in reporting.


I read that and it may have had something to do with it but the men who actually ordered the destruction were very clear that it was about the destruction of idols. They weren't just blown up, they went to extraordinary lengths to pulverise them into as small pieces as possible. And the Turks had a go at destroying them as well.
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Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #544 on: January 24, 2015, 11:04:06 PM »
There's another narrative to this 

Course there is.

You are a very credulous man. Basically the more fascist the report the more inclined you are to believe it.
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Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #545 on: January 24, 2015, 11:18:52 PM »
And the Turks had a go at destroying them as well.
[/b]

I didnt know about the Turks trying it too. Will check it out, thanks for sharing that.


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Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #546 on: January 24, 2015, 11:54:25 PM »

I didnt know about the Turks trying it too. Will check it out, thanks for sharing that.



Sorry it was Persians and Mughals not Turks. 
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Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #547 on: January 24, 2015, 11:55:19 PM »
I wasn't sure where to put this but it needed putting somewhere.


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Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #548 on: January 25, 2015, 01:01:11 AM »
.....Another interesting point, those statues had loads of holes in them - the British soldiers used to use them as target practice back in the day.

Have you got a verifiable source for that specific claim?

As far as I know, the British/Indian Army when in Afghanistan years back, never went anywhere near them, the area was referred to as the  “great unknown highlands” ...


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Offline LondonRapLondon

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Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #549 on: January 25, 2015, 01:58:46 PM »
Sorry it was Persians and Mughals not Turks.

Thanks Alan, I was wondering as I couldn't find anything about the Ottomons and those statues.

However, I've got some research that you may find interesting, for me it points to the idea that the Taliban were not chiefly blowing up those statues for theological reasons but rather the other narrative comes to the fore - namely they got pissed off because they ween't allowed to feed their starving people with the statue preservation funds and thus made a statement to the international community which they saw as caring more about stones than humans.

You can check this out for yourself.

In 1999, Mullah Omar (Taliban leader) declared a decree of protection for the statues. This decree was honoured by him and his group for two years.

Now, I would assume his theology on statues had not changed in that time. However, all of a sudden in 2001 those statues were blown up.

For me, this points to something other than theological reasons.

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Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #550 on: January 25, 2015, 02:17:00 PM »
Thanks Alan, I was wondering as I couldn't find anything about the Ottomons and those statues.

However, I've got some research that you may find interesting, for me it points to the idea that the Taliban were not chiefly blowing up those statues for theological reasons but rather the other narrative comes to the fore - namely they got pissed off because they ween't allowed to feed their starving people with the statue preservation funds and thus made a statement to the international community which they saw as caring more about stones than humans.

You can check this out for yourself.

In 1999, Mullah Omar (Taliban leader) declared a decree of protection for the statues. This decree was honoured by him and his group for two years.

Now, I would assume his theology on statues had not changed in that time. However, all of a sudden in 2001 those statues were blown up.

For me, this points to something other than theological reasons.

How the hell do you come to that conclusion? 
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Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #551 on: January 25, 2015, 02:31:15 PM »
How the hell do you come to that conclusion? 
Start with the conclusion, then work backwards ;)

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Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #552 on: January 25, 2015, 02:33:14 PM »
Thanks Alan, I was wondering as I couldn't find anything about the Ottomons and those statues.

However, I've got some research that you may find interesting, for me it points to the idea that the Taliban were not chiefly blowing up those statues for theological reasons but rather the other narrative comes to the fore - namely they got pissed off because they ween't allowed to feed their starving people with the statue preservation funds and thus made a statement to the international community which they saw as caring more about stones than humans.

You can check this out for yourself.

In 1999, Mullah Omar (Taliban leader) declared a decree of protection for the statues. This decree was honoured by him and his group for two years.

Now, I would assume his theology on statues had not changed in that time. However, all of a sudden in 2001 those statues were blown up.

For me, this points to something other than theological reasons.

I see what you mean. I've got to admit that's quite persuasive. It very much looks like the Taliban wanted to protect the statues and feed their own people but that international agencies prevented them from doing the decent thing. In the circumstances I don't think the Taliban were left with any choice. They simply had to blow the statues up. It's a shame that international Jewry has (as usual) drawn a veil over the whole thing and convinced people that the humanitarian and art-loving Taliban are the ones to blame when in reality it is probably Zionism and the Americans and the Brits who forced the statues to be blown up and caused the people to starve. And, as you say, British soldiers had long been shooting at the statues anyway and obviously had tried to destroy them themselves. They simply weren't as technically proficient as the Taliban who, as you say, did it reluctantly although skilfully. Because I think if you have to blow them up, as they did have to, then you might as well do it mercifully. 
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Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #553 on: January 25, 2015, 02:36:16 PM »
Course there is.

You are a very credulous man. Basically the more fascist the report the more inclined you are to believe it.

I don't appreciate that. My parents generation were routinely being attacked by NF (real fascists) thugs. So I, as a black man do not appreciate that at all - my race has arguably been the biggest victims of fascism.

And I cannot betray my teachers at school and in my black community centre. As a kid I would go to the black community centre and tell our leader that I'm learning about General Custer's last stand. He would encourage me to learn about the WHOLE context and look into the WHOLE picture. The same when I told him the history teacher is telling us about Churchill's leadership in WWII

Now, if I was inclined to believe the first report and never think and research I would have ended up with the fascist belief that the native Americans were savages who were attacking (on mass) small groups of White Europeans. That's what all the pics in my history text book and the black and white movies they were playing on the BBC would have led me to believe. That would have been a pure fascist belief.

But rather I know that the Europeans raped and committed a full scale genocide of those people - that's why they were attacking the small groups of white Europeans (who always seemed to be looking pleasant and in Army uniform with guns whilst the Natives appeared angry and half naked).

Yeh so I don;t believe that fascist belief - I have looked at all the sources and believe the Europeans committed genocide and the Natives were not the aggressors but rather just trying to defend their communities. I would not have learned that if I accepted the fascist belief. Oh and do you know the Europeans were using the breasts of Native women as tobacco pouches? Sick, right. I mean if ISIS was doing that it would be well known, why is it that we weren't taught this at school. Why is Custer taught as a hero?

Another point, we were taught about Churchill. If we were naive and never bothered to research (or in my case - if I never had my black community study group as a kid) we would be thinking Churchill was anti-fascist. In fact the man was a racist bigot (perhaps that's where the extremists in the British Army who kill loads of Brown women and kids by blowing their bodies to smithereens whilst they sleep get their inspiration from).

Do you know Churchill said this about Indian people:

 "I hate Indians. They are a beastly people with a beastly religion."

(And when Indian people were starving of a famine he refused to help and blamed them for breeding like rabbits - all the while the facist was sending cereal to white Australians)

And about some other brown people in Palestine he said:

 "barbaric hoards who ate little but camel dung,"

And the bigot approved of giving the fertile land in Kenya to white farmers (by taking it AWAY from people of my skin colour - black people)

He also was in charge as his band of 'men' tortured black people in Kenya with fire and electrocution.

Oh and interestingly enough, when he sent his band of 'men' into the Afghan/Pakistan border area guess what those brown people fought back (just like the Native Americans had done earlier). You know what that bigot Churchill did? He did the same shit as the right wing FOX news do. He blamed them and accused those brown people of being jihadist savages.

Talking about savages, my race was called savages many times simply because we were rebelling in the slave colonies. Fuck, yeh Black people who sick of seeing thei women raped and their men getting whipped and mutilated. So they started rebelling. Yet we were called savages for doing something that was perfectly HUMAN (rebelling against torture and brutality)

You see, I don;t buy the real fascist narrative presented by some; namely that these brown/black people are causing problems because they are savages or because their religion/race/genetic makeup leads them to do this.

I'm not a fascist...that's exactly why I would rather look at brown, white, yellow and black people as humans and disprove the bullshit out there that is designed to dehumanise for the cause of true fascism and imperialism.

Oh and if I was inclined to believe the first narrative on Iraq I would end up believing the bullshit narrative in this country that Britian and America are trying to civilize and help the Iraqis. You don;t civilize and help people by dropping bombs on their kids and women whilst stealing their oil. The truth is the British soldiers who are funded by our taxes are linked to far greater crimes against humanity that ISIS. Let's have a closer look to home, let's be more scholarly about matters by looking into things deeper.

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Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #554 on: January 25, 2015, 02:39:30 PM »
"All we are breaking are stones": Afghan militia leader

AFP, Feb.27, 2001

KABUL, Feb 27 (AFP) - The leader of the Taliban Islamic militia in Afghanistan Tuesday shrugged off international condemnation of his order to destroy ancient Buddhist statues, saying "all we are breaking are stones."

Mulla Mohammad Omar told the Pakistan-based Afghan Islamic Press (AIP) that he had issued his order to destroy all statues in Afghanistan, including those from the country's rich pre-Islamic history, in line with "Islamic" beliefs.

"According to Islam, I don't worry about anything. My job is the implementation of Islamic order," he said from the fundamentalist militia's stronghold in southern Kandahar.

"The breaking of statues is an Islamic order and I have given this decision in the light of a fatwa of the ulema (clerics) and the supreme court of Afghanistan. Islamic law is the only law acceptable to me."

The order, announced late Monday on the official Taliban radio, was met with shock from Tokyo to Paris, where UNESCO demanded the Taliban "halt the destruction of (Afghanistan's) cultural heritage."

The Taliban's Radio Shariat said the ministry of information and culture and the religious police would carry out the destruction.

"Only Allah, the Almighty, deserves to be worshipped, not anyone or anything else," Mulla Omar's decree said


http://www.rawa.org/statues.htm


Now I suppose some people will look at the above statement by the Taliban and say "There you are! Out of their own mouths! They destroyed the Buddhas for religious reasons".

But, I think, if you read between the lines you can definitely see that it was Israel and America who forced them to do it. I think you can also see that thousands of Afghani kids were given decent meals for once because the Buddhas were destroyed.
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Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #555 on: January 25, 2015, 02:42:09 PM »
Be fair?

The Taliban murdered women in cold blood for the crime of being seem with a man who was not their relative.

Your post tried to paint them as some benevolent agency.

Did it fuck.  It gave another angle.  You can choose to disbelieve that angle.  You could rightly argue that despite those comments they remain a deeply fucked up and brutal organisation but there is no need for you infantile reaction.
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Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #556 on: January 25, 2015, 02:45:32 PM »
Freedom of Speech unless you get shouted down and abused by the in-crowd.
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Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #557 on: January 25, 2015, 02:47:08 PM »
I don't appreciate that. My parents generation were routinely being attacked by NF (real fascists) thugs. So I, as a black man do not appreciate that at all - my race has arguably been the biggest victims of fascism.

Coming from your keyboard the word "arguably" has ceased to mean anything. You've shown yourself brilliantly adept at arguing black is white (not a racial point so calm down  ;D)

As for black victims of fascism, yes there were many. In Ethiopia after Mussolini's vicious invasion, mainly. But also the black American troops who fought in the US Army against the Wehrmacht. They could be called "victims" of fascism too, I suppose. There were also West Indian and African soldiers who fought in the British and Commonwealth armies. All of them brave, all of them honoured.

But I still think it's probably true to say that "the biggest victims of fascism" were the Jews. Quixotic I know, but I'm old-fashioned stickler for evidence. 
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Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #558 on: January 25, 2015, 02:49:19 PM »
Did it fuck. 

Read it again. It's a disgraceful defence of fascism.
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Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #559 on: January 25, 2015, 02:54:26 PM »
"All we are breaking are stones": Afghan militia leader

AFP, Feb.27, 2001

KABUL, Feb 27 (AFP) - The leader of the Taliban Islamic militia in Afghanistan Tuesday shrugged off international condemnation of his order to destroy ancient Buddhist statues, saying "all we are breaking are stones."

Mulla Mohammad Omar told the Pakistan-based Afghan Islamic Press (AIP) that he had issued his order to destroy all statues in Afghanistan, including those from the country's rich pre-Islamic history, in line with "Islamic" beliefs.

"According to Islam, I don't worry about anything. My job is the implementation of Islamic order," he said from the fundamentalist militia's stronghold in southern Kandahar.

"The breaking of statues is an Islamic order and I have given this decision in the light of a fatwa of the ulema (clerics) and the supreme court of Afghanistan. Islamic law is the only law acceptable to me."

The order, announced late Monday on the official Taliban radio, was met with shock from Tokyo to Paris, where UNESCO demanded the Taliban "halt the destruction of (Afghanistan's) cultural heritage."

The Taliban's Radio Shariat said the ministry of information and culture and the religious police would carry out the destruction.

"Only Allah, the Almighty, deserves to be worshipped, not anyone or anything else," Mulla Omar's decree said


http://www.rawa.org/statues.htm


Now I suppose some people will look at the above statement by the Taliban and say "There you are! Out of their own mouths! They destroyed the Buddhas for religious reasons".

But, I think, if you read between the lines you can definitely see that it was Israel and America who forced them to do it. I think you can also see that thousands of Afghani kids were given decent meals for once because the Buddhas were destroyed.

Read the information that I dropped in the comment to Alan X and look into it.

That is really shedding doubt on this narrative as Mullah Omar only two years ago is on record as declaring and intention to protect the statues. He had the SAME theology back then but two years later all of a sudden he ends up blowing them up? Why preserve them for two years?

At the very least it sheds doubts on the mainstream decontextualised narrative and give credence to the narrative coming out of Afghanistan - namely the Taliban did it because they were incensed by the international community's reluctance in helping them financially against the famine.

Look, there are two sides to the story and I personally believe the truth is somewhere in the middle. It certainly is not the way in which our right wing media presented it as.