Topic: Gerrard - quoted as 'Gerrard open to move from Liverpool'

[Fromola]

Wait, Gerrard gets marked out of the game now at his kinda DM position and most think he could create space as a forward?

He doesn't get time on the ball now at centre mid but you often don't in the Premier League. Teams know now with our attack then when Gerrard plays in midfield that if you stop him then we won't know what to do because everything tends to go through him. If you had Borini and Gerrard up top then even if they're occupying 2 or 3 defenders then it frees up space for others to exploit and we'd have more of a midfield plan. Playing Mario on his own is such a waste of time that defenders are barely concerned about him at all and only takes 1 to keep him quiet. Then the rest of their players can stifle our movement elsewhere.

[Sat1]

Gerrards beat position now is playing the last 15/20 minutes up behind the striker or right side whipping balls in.

As am impact player off the bench.

[[new username under construction]]

He doesn't get time on the ball now at centre mid but you often don't in the Premier League. Teams know now with our attack then when Gerrard plays in midfield that if you stop him then we won't know what to do because everything tends to go through him. If you had Borini and Gerrard up top then even if they're occupying 2 or 3 defenders then it frees up space for others to exploit and we'd have more of a midfield plan. Playing Mario on his own is such a waste of time that defenders are barely concerned about him at all and only takes 1 to keep him quiet. Then the rest of their players can stifle our movement elsewhere.

Ah ok, I am still not sure he has the legs any more though. I don't think we even need a world class striker up front at the moment, we just need one or two QUICK, hard working players who will make space....I think if we had that we'd be playing pretty much the same way as last season. Baffles me that we don't

[TSC]

Ah ok, I am still not sure he has the legs any more though. I don't think we even need a world class striker up front at the moment, we just need one or two QUICK, hard working players who will make space....I think if we had that we'd be playing pretty much the same way as last season. Baffles me that we don't

The main reason we were so fluid and free scoring last season was because we'd not one but two world class strikers up front.  The reason we're mute up top this season is because we have none.  Unfortunately this is coupled with a defense that is arguably worse than last season, as difficult as that is to achieve.

[Fromola]

Ah ok, I am still not sure he has the legs any more though. I don't think we even need a world class striker up front at the moment, we just need one or two QUICK, hard working players who will make space....I think if we had that we'd be playing pretty much the same way as last season. Baffles me that we don't

He doesn't. But if he's going to start then we need to find a way to make it work.

[Red-Soldier]

He should be an impact sub but he will start every match same as always.

Playing players not on a performance basis may cost us a top 4 spot this season and Rogers his job.

[Sat1]

Playing favourites regardless of form does impact games and fan perception

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

Playing favourites regardless of form does impact games and fan perception

It's made me think twice about Rodger's suitability as a Liverpool manager.

[RedSince86]

Shoehorning Gerrard in multiple starting positions.

Like the poster said above he would be better as an impact sub.

[Red-Soldier]

It's made me think twice about Rodger's suitability as a Liverpool manager.

I agree. This is the first time I have had doubts to.  Up until now there hasn't been any whatsoever.

Lets see how things pan out.

[GIPPO77]

It's more about Rodgers trying to make his atrocious signings look good by continually playing them than choosing Gerrard to play.

[Red-Soldier]

It's more about Rodgers trying to make his atrocious signings look good by continually playing them than choosing Gerrard to play.

It's as well as that.

Make no mistake, continually choosing Gerrard as a starter is not the way forward, in my opinion.

[Kopenhagen]

It's more about Rodgers trying to make his atrocious signings look good by continually playing them than choosing Gerrard to play.

The only signing he's relied on regardless of form is Lovren.

[Cloudstepper]

I've just got this feeling he'll move on in either January or the Summer, especially if the team continues to perform the way it has done for the next couple of months or God forbid the rest of this season, i can see him trying something new... He must be feeling it more than most, the loss of Suarez, no Sturridge, poor signings etc, he's given his all for so long now and last season was a massive kick in the gut..

[Cloudstepper]

It's more about Rodgers trying to make his atrocious signings look good by continually playing them than choosing Gerrard to play.

I did wonder this too, has he got a bit of an ego problem BR? Genuine question...

[MolbyLovesGravlax]

I did wonder this too, has he got a bit of an ego problem BR? Genuine question...

Let's step back a second. Kenny kept going back to Adam, Downing, Carroll and Henderson in his full season, even though when he did give The likes of Maxi and Kuyt games they far out performed the new signings.
Would people attack Kenny's ego?
No, it is what managers do, they buy players and always want to play those to prove they were right in their original evaluations.
And, unlike Kenny, it isn't as if Rodgers is ignoring inform players, we are pretty much a squad of poor players right now.
So the simpler question is can Rodgers learn from Kenny's mistakes and be brave enough to move away from the shape and formations he spent the summer planning for and which he spent money on players to 'fit' and just try and evolve into a team that works.

[Tomaldinho]

It's made me think twice about Rodger's suitability as a Liverpool manager.

Who would have the balls to drop Gerrard though? Who is big enough to LFC? Bigger than Gerrard? I can only think of one man and he's not Liverpool manager any more. You saw what was caused at Chelsea when Lampard stopped getting picked every game. It's damned if you, damned if you don't.

[redrockydennis]

Who would have the balls to drop Gerrard though? Who is big enough to LFC? Bigger than Gerrard? I can only think of one man and he's not Liverpool manager any more. You saw what was caused at Chelsea when Lampard stopped getting picked every game. It's damned if you, damned if you don't.

Fuck me he's not Jesus bloody Christ

[Fromola]

The Gerrard situation is comparable to Xavi at Barca.

34-year-old, one club legend, captain, local lad and fan made good. Playing in central midfield. Legs have gone and can no longer get about the pitch as much and not over 90 minutes. Just had a disastrous World Cup and then retired from international football. Always been first choice before.

The first thing Luis Enrique did when he took over was sign Rakitic and tell Xavi he's not going to be first choice anymore. Told him he wanted to keep him and he'd be a key squad player but if he wanted to leave he could do. If he stayed he had to accept he wouldn't always be playing. He thought about it, assessed his options and choice to stay. He's been on the bench a lot but played a lot. Probably more than expected with Iniesta injured and Rakitic rotated from time to time.

Instead, the conversation Rodgers has had with Gerrard seems to have been more along the lines of 'i'll have to leave you out more if you stay on with England'. He quit England stating that Rodgers said he'd limit his game time. As a result he still plays every league minute and all bar the one CL game where we put the second team out. It's mad that we haven't addressed the issue.

[sideshowme]

Let's step back a second. Kenny kept going back to Adam, Downing, Carroll and Henderson in his full season, even though when he did give The likes of Maxi and Kuyt games they far out performed the new signings.
Would people attack Kenny's ego?
No, it is what managers do, they buy players and always want to play those to prove they were right in their original evaluations.
And, unlike Kenny, it isn't as if Rodgers is ignoring inform players, we are pretty much a squad of poor players right now.
So the simpler question is can Rodgers learn from Kenny's mistakes and be brave enough to move away from the shape and formations he spent the summer planning for and which he spent money on players to 'fit' and just try and evolve into a team that works.

but that's not what happened with kenny, really.  he was clearly looking to the future, when dirk and maxi would be phased out, and played the new players he had to move towards that, a lot like rodgers did in his first season.  that's not ego, it's trying to evolve rafa's team into a new model.  henderson wouldn't be the player he is (or was last season) without that forging in kenny's team, in my opinion.

rodgers this season is in a kind of halfway house - not seemingly making the best of what he had last season, nor making the best of what he's* just signed, both in terms of selections and tactics.  very weird.

*for a given value of "he".

[Mountainman]

As many have said, Gerrard as impact sub, and the odd start.

[Mutton Geoff]

Who would have the balls to drop Gerrard though? Who is big enough to LFC? Bigger than Gerrard? I can only think of one man and he's not Liverpool manager any more. You saw what was caused at Chelsea when Lampard stopped getting picked every game. It's damned if you, damned if you don't.

The club is bigger than any individual although the King comes close.

[Sat1]

The club is bigger than any individual although the King comes close.

But is the manager big enough to drop the player?

Seems like he values the friendship more

[MolbyLovesGravlax]

But is the manager big enough to drop the player?

Seems like he values the friendship more

Or maybe Rodgers just sees Gerrard, even at this point, to be a better player than Allen or Can or Lucas or whoever.
That is really the issue, the poster above talking about Xavi has a point, but Barca bought a player in Rakitic who they thought would be ready to replace him on day 1. We have spent the last few years buying players of potential or backup. We have lost top quality midfielders in Xabi and Mascherano and watched Gerrard age further and further from his world class days and have made zero attempt to buy an actual honest to goodness top quality midfielder. We didn't want to replace Suarez with a top drawer striker and I think Rodgers knows the clubs spending policy means we will never buy a ready for primetime replacement for Gerrard either. And maybe a midfield 3 of say Allen, Henderson and Can (or whoever else) will not in anyway be top 4 quality either.

[idontknow]

But is the manager big enough to drop the player?

Seems like he values the friendship more

Which in the future might be nice for the two of them.
As for now, leaves a hole in our midfield, our midfield, our midfield ...

[GrkStav]

Or maybe Rodgers just sees Gerrard, even at this point, to be a better player than Allen or Can or Lucas or whoever.

At which position and for which role does Rodgers maybe just see Gerrard, even at this point, as a better player than Allen or Can or Lucas or whoever?

At some point that explanation starts making Rodgers actually look a little less astute than he is generally viewed as, I think.

[Halcyon Lissome]

At which position and for which role does Rodgers maybe just see Gerrard, even at this point, as a better player than Allen or Can or Lucas or whoever?

At some point that explanation starts making Rodgers actually look a little less astute than he is generally viewed as, I think.

Not until the other players actually make a consistent and prolonged claim to be better than him. People are questioning Rodgers and instead need to look at the rest of the midfielders. Even as of this season, it is last year's most present (Henderson and Gerrard) who have been our best two midfielders this season; even with their varying form.

[MolbyLovesGravlax]

At which position and for which role does Rodgers maybe just see Gerrard, even at this point, as a better player than Allen or Can or Lucas or whoever?

At some point that explanation starts making Rodgers actually look a little less astute than he is generally viewed as, I think.

It isn't about position or role. That is over complicating it. I am saying maybe Rodgers thinks Gerrard is the best player he has available to him, so he is going to play him in midfield in some way and that there is not another midfielder in the squad capable of bringing more to the pitch than he does.
Gerrard has been poor this season, but it is very hard to make an argument that anyone has been better.

[Mamadou]

Who would have the balls to drop Gerrard though? Who is big enough to LFC? Bigger than Gerrard? I can only think of one man and he's not Liverpool manager any more. You saw what was caused at Chelsea when Lampard stopped getting picked every game. It's damned if you, damned if you don't.

Gerrard is an icon for Liverpool, just like Del Piero was for Juventus or Raul for R.Madrid... Gerrard just like Del Piero or Raul, will do more harm than good if we continue to start him in every game... and it's no shame to say that he's holding us back

[Upinsmoke]

Gerrard is an icon for Liverpool, just like Del Piero was for Juventus or Raul for R.Madrid... Gerrard just like Del Piero or Raul, will do more harm than good if we continue to start him in every game... and it's no shame to say that he's holding us back

Yup. What happens when Messi is 34, can't run and is completely ineffective (hypothetically speaking). Would he play every minute?  Nope. And that's the greatest player to ever live.

[Fromola]

Or maybe Rodgers just sees Gerrard, even at this point, to be a better player than Allen or Can or Lucas or whoever.
That is really the issue, the poster above talking about Xavi has a point, but Barca bought a player in Rakitic who they thought would be ready to replace him on day 1. We have spent the last few years buying players of potential or backup. We have lost top quality midfielders in Xabi and Mascherano and watched Gerrard age further and further from his world class days and have made zero attempt to buy an actual honest to goodness top quality midfielder. We didn't want to replace Suarez with a top drawer striker and I think Rodgers knows the clubs spending policy means we will never buy a ready for primetime replacement for Gerrard either. And maybe a midfield 3 of say Allen, Henderson and Can (or whoever else) will not in anyway be top 4 quality either.

This is the point though. You end up with managed decline because you don't strengthen the position properly. We did the same thing at centre back for years when Carra was coming to the end; buying back up or potential rather than going out and buying a proper centre half who could come straight in and partner Agger or Skrtel.

Enrique made sure he signed an established centre mid. It was the first thing he did because he knew Xavi didn't have the legs to start every week and he knew to leave Xavi out he'd better make sure he had a better player at this point in their careers.

[robgomm]

Yup. What happens when Messi is 34, can't run and is completely ineffective (hypothetically speaking). Would he play every minute?  Nope. And that's the greatest player to ever live.

Gerrard can run and isn't completely ineffective. He's not been half as effective as last season though. But it's easy to write that down to age and not look at other factors.

[Upinsmoke]

Gerrard can run and isn't completely ineffective. He's not been half as effective as last season though. But it's easy to write that down to age and not look at other factors.

He can't run mate like we need him too where he plays, and with the way our defence is exposed he's tiring himself even quicker. with the current personnel he is ineffective.

[Halcyon Lissome]

Yup. What happens when Messi is 34, can't run and is completely ineffective (hypothetically speaking). Would he play every minute?  Nope. And that's the greatest player to ever live.

If Messi is still their best forward (or in their best XI) he'll play, of course he will. And that's all that matters.

Messi's position is also different to that of a holding midfielder and which requires different levels of fitness.

[Mamadou]

Gerrard can run and isn't completely ineffective. He's not been half as effective as last season though. But it's easy to write that down to age and not look at other factors.

my granpa runs every morning too. Gerrard isn't dead, of course he can run...i can run, you can run, but thats not the point

he wouldn't make in the first eleven even for Southampton or Tottenham, let alone the likes of Chelsea,City or Arsenal...

[Fromola]

Gerrard can run and isn't completely ineffective. He's not been half as effective as last season though. But it's easy to write that down to age and not look at other factors.

I don't think Gerrard has been a lot different to the first half of previous seasons under Rodgers. He really struggled in Rodgers' first half season and we actually had less points at this stage of the season and were out the league cup straight away. Rodgers was desperately trying to find a position for him because he recognised quickly he didn't have the legs to play higher up the pitch in his system, then he dropped him back and swapped him with Sahin. That's when Rodgers changed the possession game. He improved that season when Lucas came back in to shore the midfield up and Sturridge and Coutinho improved the attack and gave him more options on the ball.

Last season he was struggling a bit before his injury. He was having good games but struggled in a fair few. We just weren't getting a grip in midfield, particularly away, and Suarez and Sturridge were carrying us scoring all kinds of goals. Gerrard's injury made Rodgers tweak the system and the season exploded from there in terms of our performances. Gerrard adapted into that when he took Lucas' place when he came back.

This season he's really struggled the same as in Rodgers' first half season. I think when the team are struggling he finds it really difficult, particularly without a top attack to link with. His performances will improve if the teams performances do but it's up to the manager to come up with something different that will work. It might take Gerrard to have a spell out the side.

[Fromola]

If Messi is still their best forward (or in their best XI) he'll play, of course he will. And that's all that matters.

Messi's position is also different to that of a holding midfielder and which requires different levels of fitness.

Messi at Barca enjoys the status Gerrard mostly enjoys at Liverpool. He plays every minute in the league and the CL (other than one game 'the first team' were rested in). Although that might possibly change with 12 games in 40 days.

Even if Messi is still great at 34, I doubt he'll still have that same status and will be subbed and sub more like Xavi now at 34. Gerrard at 27 didn't have that status! I think by that age Messi will have dropped deeper if he's still playing.

[Coolie High]

my granpa runs every morning too. Gerrard isn't dead, of course he can run...i can run, you can run, but thats not the point

he wouldn't make in the first eleven even for Southampton or Tottenham, let alone the likes of Chelsea,City or Arsenal...

He would start for almost all those teams.

[bigbear]

He would start for almost all those teams.

Rumours of my death have been grossly exaggerated.

[Fromola]

He would start for almost all those teams.

I think he'd only  be an impact player at United, Arsenal, City and Chelsea when they have everyone fit. He'd start for everyone else, albeit in various positions and systems. I don't think many would play him as the deepest midfielder.