Topic: Gerrard - quoted as 'Gerrard open to move from Liverpool'

[Halcyon Lissome]

Isn't that the three legged table argument though. you don't need a world class 4th leg to make the table function properly. A less talented player who is a natural in that position can often do a better job because he instinctively does that job.

Momo couldn't hold a candle to Stevie in terms of ability but we won a colossal 63.22% of games he played in.

Same with Wellbeck at United in Ferguson's last season the win percentage went up a ridiculous amount when Wellbeck played.

Spearing does nothing better than Gerrard. This argument that an inferior player can make a better midfield is very convenient for the people who prefer midfielders who are clearly inferior and can't deny it. You can basically make up any old crap argument and rely on a generality.

At least Momo was a ridiculously good ball-winner and that is what he was tasked to do. And the less said about the logic used for the Welbeck point the better.

[bigbear]

Spearing does nothing better than Gerrard. This argument that an inferior player can make a better midfield is very convenient for the people who prefer midfielders who are clearly inferior and can't deny it. You can basically make up any old crap argument and rely on a generality.

At least Momo was a ridiculously good ball-winner and that is what he was tasked to do. And the less said about the logic used for the Welbeck point the better.

Momo did a good job and had a particularly good impact pre his eye injury. However, the song about the best midfield in the world that includes his name, also includes 3 other exceptional players who contributed hugely to his stats and there was a pretty good Spaniard up front for a chunk of Momo's games too.

[Cid]

Gerrard has never been a brilliant defender.  His defensive positioning, work rate and reading of the game when the opponent has the ball just aren't up to it.

He is what he is.  Amazing vision, brilliant passing, ball control and overall technique that few can match.  He was allowed to play the pirlo role last season and did it superbly, but he was given so much space because our attack was lethal.  What manager was going to put a man on Gerrard when Suarez, Sturridge, sterling and Coutinho would then have the space?

We've lost our main threat, our second threat has been injured, our third has been wiped out by too many games and too much pressure,  and our little Brazilian has been struggling to get a run in the side.

Gerrard has been marked a lot in games and we've struggled to keep hold of the ball, so his defensive weaknesses are being shown up.  He's not a barn storming dm, he's a playmaker who can tackle well.

[bigbear]

Gerrard has never been a brilliant defender.  His defensive positioning, work rate and reading of the game when the opponent has the ball just aren't up to it.

He is what he is.  Amazing vision, brilliant passing, ball control and overall technique that few can match.  He was allowed to play the pirlo role last season and did it superbly, but he was given so much space because our attack was lethal.  What manager was going to put a man on Gerrard when Suarez, Sturridge, sterling and Coutinho would then have the space?

We've lost our main threat, our second threat has been injured, our third has been wiped out by too many games and too much pressure,  and our little Brazilian has been struggling to get a run in the side.

Gerrard has been marked a lot in games and we've struggled to keep hold of the ball, so his defensive weaknesses are being shown up.  He's not a barn storming dm, he's a playmaker who can tackle well.

I think that's a good assessment. I'd probably add in that he is brave and can head the ball strongly too for a midfield player. It's his physical gifts that he uses as a defensive player more than his brain whereas someone like Didi Hamaan it would be very much the brain first.

[SerbianScouser]

Gerrard has never been a brilliant defender.  His defensive positioning, work rate and reading of the game when the opponent has the ball just aren't up to it.

I couldn`t disagree more. Now yes but back in the day when he made the debut wearing no.28 playing as a DM he reminded me of a footballing version of Lebron James - a physical freak of nature - he has to be one of the greatest athletes ever to play in PL. Even though I never noticed him excelling in reading of the game his freakish athleticism made up for it and then some , luckily for us he developed his attacking skills and was used in the final third more and more.

Early in his career I thought he could defend as well as anybody.

[bigbear]

I couldn`t disagree more. Now yes but back in the day when he made the debut wearing no.28 playing as a DM he reminded me of a footballing version of Lebron James - a physical freak of nature - he has to be one of the greatest athletes ever to play in PL. Even though I never noticed him excelling in reading of the game his freakish athleticism made up for it and then some , luckily for us he developed his attacking skills and was used in the final third more and more.

Early in his career I thought he could defend as well as anybody.

He could have been an amazing defensive midfield player but he was better than that and so his game was developed to get him forward in and around the box to do things that the likes of Didi and Masch just couldn't dream of doing.

[Halcyon Lissome]

He could have been an amazing defensive midfield player but he was better than that and so his game was developed to get him forward in and around the box to do things that the likes of Didi and Masch just couldn't dream of doing.

Yes, this. He could've been an amazing defensive midfielder, but he didn't because he never played through his prime there. Maybe if he had he would've but an attacking midfielder that can score 20+ goals was far more vital for our team than turning him into a DM. But Gerrard still has ranged from very good to - lately - average as a DM. He's a complete player.

[vblfc]

Don't forget delivery from set pieces such as direct free kicks, corners etc.  Luis & Danny nicked a few in from Stevie's rapid, low trajectory, in swinging free kicks.  Again unfortunately this season we cant make this click, but it can be a real threat.

[Fromola]

I think that's a good assessment. I'd probably add in that he is brave and can head the ball strongly too for a midfield player. It's his physical gifts that he uses as a defensive player more than his brain whereas someone like Didi Hamaan it would be very much the brain first.

And now the problem is his body is failing him for that. He can still head well and put a block in but he hasn't got the recovery pace anymore if he needs to get back or track a runner and Hamann even at the very end of his career didn't need any pace because he always knew where to be on the pitch for his position. Without the pace and power Gerrard really struggles to defend and his defensive contribution is more last ditch block rather than sheer anticipation.

[Red-Soldier]

I think that if Rogers continues to blindingly play Stevie week in week out it will cost him his job, as I think our performances will continue to suffer.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's Gerrard's last season with us.  I think he's still got enough in him at the top level for a couple more years if he's managed right, used as a sub etc.

Surely his experience would be a huge asset to have around the squad and dressing room.

I can't see FSG stumping up big wages again for him to sign an extension though, I guess if he's not willing to take a drop he'll be gone. Good luck to him if that's the case.

[Ken-Obi]

I think that if Rogers continues to blindingly play Stevie week in week out it will cost him his job, as I think our performances will continue to suffer.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's Gerrard's last season with us.  I think he's still got enough in him at the top level for a couple more years if he's managed right, used as a sub etc.

Surely his experience would be a huge asset to have around the squad and dressing room.

I can't see FSG stumping up big wages again for him to sign an extension though, I guess if he's not willing to take a drop he'll be gone. Good luck to him if that's the case.

[Red-Soldier]

It was only an opinion of which I am entitled to, and I'm entitled to speculate as much as I want. 

[Ken-Obi]

It was only an opinion of which I am entitled to, and I'm entitled to speculate as much as I want. 

And I'm entitled to a bit of fun.

[Red-Soldier]

And I'm entitled to a bit of fun.

Yeah of course you are. Sorry I took it as you having a pop. My bad 

[Eeyore]

Spearing does nothing better than Gerrard. This argument that an inferior player can make a better midfield is very convenient for the people who prefer midfielders who are clearly inferior and can't deny it. You can basically make up any old crap argument and rely on a generality.

At least Momo was a ridiculously good ball-winner and that is what he was tasked to do. And the less said about the logic used for the Welbeck point the better.

For me Spearing complemented Lucas better though. When Lucas was in his pomp the one thing he lacked because of his build was the kind of terrier like harrying that Spearing brought to the mix. For me they made a great pairing and lived upto the adage that sometimes the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

Paisley was a great advocate of partnerships and players complementing each other. One of Gerrard's biggest problems for me is that he doesn't form partnerships very well because for me he is at his best when he plays on instinct. The old can Gerrard and Lampard play together debate pretty much characteristised Stevie's career for me.

Give him a free role where he can go and create and he is sublime. Rein him in and make him play in a disciplined way and you lose what made him so great. Going back to Spearing and Lucas why it was a good partnership is because each partner instinctively knew what the other would do. They knew when they would press, they knew who would track runners and they combined very well.

With Stevie you never know what he is going to do, he lets runners go one minute and then tracks someone the next. The same happens with his pressing, sometimes he presses on his own and gets the ball passed around him and at others he doesn't press at all. If you want to look at partnerships for Stevie the best ones have come with the likes of Owen and Torres. That for me shows where his instincts are and where his best position is.

[Guz-kop]

The old can Gerrard and Lampard play together debate pretty much characteristised Stevie's career for me.

Really? Crikey.

The man who will go down as one of (to some THE) greatest players to EVER play for Liverpool with all those performances, that pace, that power, those goals - everything. And you think what characterises his career is his inability to form a partnership with an inferior footballer under managers that never got the best out of the England squad unless your name was David Beckham?

Gerrard formed fucking fantastic partnerships with the likes of Torres and Owen. Henderson last season. Finnan when he played on the right. Sissoko/Alonso as an axis and later Mascherano/Alonso

None of those quite reached the heights of Lucas/Spearing though. Oh those days.

[Red-Soldier]

Really? Crikey.

The man who will go down as one of (to some THE) greatest players to EVER play for Liverpool with all those performances, that pace, that power, those goals - everything. And you think what characterises his career is his inability to form a partnership with an inferior footballer under managers that never got the best out of the England squad unless your name was David Beckham?

Gerrard formed fucking fantastic partnerships with the likes of Torres and Owen. Henderson last season. Finnan when he played on the right. Sissoko/Alonso as an axis and later Mascherano/Alonso

None of those quite reached the heights of Lucas/Spearing though. Oh those days.

Yeah I always dream about the Lucas/Spearing partnership more than the Gerrard/Torres/Owen/Alonso and the others you mentioned 

[bigbear]

For me Spearing complemented Lucas better though. When Lucas was in his pomp the one thing he lacked because of his build was the kind of terrier like harrying that Spearing brought to the mix. For me they made a great pairing and lived upto the adage that sometimes the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

Paisley was a great advocate of partnerships and players complementing each other. One of Gerrard's biggest problems for me is that he doesn't form partnerships very well because for me he is at his best when he plays on instinct. The old can Gerrard and Lampard play together debate pretty much characteristised Stevie's career for me.

Give him a free role where he can go and create and he is sublime. Rein him in and make him play in a disciplined way and you lose what made him so great. Going back to Spearing and Lucas why it was a good partnership is because each partner instinctively knew what the other would do. They knew when they would press, they knew who would track runners and they combined very well.

With Stevie you never know what he is going to do, he lets runners go one minute and then tracks someone the next. The same happens with his pressing, sometimes he presses on his own and gets the ball passed around him and at others he doesn't press at all. If you want to look at partnerships for Stevie the best ones have come with the likes of Owen and Torres. That for me shows where his instincts are and where his best position is.

You surely cannot mean that a team with Jay Spearing in centre midfield could in any way be a better side than a team with Steven Gerrard in it playing the same position.

When it was required Gerrard could sit in and do a hard-working job in a two, he did it v Chelsea with Mascherano in 2007 2nd leg. He did it with Didi at home to a great Juventus side and ran the show against some super midfield players.

The point is though, he has so much more to give going forward that he will get caught with more options than a Jay Spearing or a Momo Sissoko who couldn't pass the ball further than 15 yards or create any danger no matter how much space he was given.

[Fromola]

Yeah I always dream about the Lucas/Spearing partnership more than the Gerrard/Torres/Owen/Alonso and the others you mentioned 

He was talking about central midfield partnerships. Gerrard has had a great career and seasons when he's been genuinely world class but for club and country you won't really look back on his career and say "he formed a great central midfield pairing with .......". He could link up with a player fantastically (Torres/Alonso in 08/09 for example) but there was never the Keane/Scholes esque partnership in the middle of the park for Liverpool or England.

[Eeyore]

Really? Crikey.

The man who will go down as one of (to some THE) greatest players to EVER play for Liverpool with all those performances, that pace, that power, those goals - everything. And you think what characterises his career is his inability to form a partnership with an inferior footballer under managers that never got the best out of the England squad unless your name was David Beckham?

Gerrard formed fucking fantastic partnerships with the likes of Torres and Owen. Henderson last season. Finnan when he played on the right. Sissoko/Alonso as an axis and later Mascherano/Alonso

None of those quite reached the heights of Lucas/Spearing though. Oh those days.

What characterises Gerarrd career, yes completely. Trying to shoe horn Gerrard into a role that requires him to do the donkey work is just a criminal waste of talent. The partnerships you listed all had one thing in common they freed Gerrard from the defensive donkey work and allowed him to use his incredible talent.

Gerrard holding whilst Fat Frank plodded into attacking positions was an unbelievable waste of talent.

So why are we looking at getting an ageing Gerrard to play deep and do the defensive donkey work when we are short of creativity and goals in the final third.

As for Lucas/Spearing that was a midfield combination that did the donkey work and allowed others to shine. You put Gerrard alongside either and it completely changes the dynamics of the midfield.

[Fromola]

What characterises Gerarrd career, yes completely. Trying to shoe horn Gerrard into a role that requires him to do the donkey work is just a criminal waste of talent. The partnerships you listed all had one thing in common they freed Gerrard from the defensive donkey work and allowed him to use his incredible talent.

Gerrard holding whilst Fat Frank plodded into attacking positions was an unbelievable waste of talent.

So why are we looking at getting an ageing Gerrard to play deep and do the defensive donkey work when we are short of creativity and goals in the final third.

What summed up his England career was the 2006 World Cup. Gerrard has just had a brilliant season for Liverpool and he was relegated to a water carrier for Lampard who had an absolute shocker of a tournament. Gerrard did okay but England's best midfielder was Owen Hargreaves who helped try and balance an otherwise totally disjointed midfield.

Gerrard at his peak in that tournament. Who knows what he could have achieved for England in that tournament if given the free role Lampard got. It was a very weak tournament and England should have beat Portugal with beatable France and Italy sides to face after it. In the last 10 years the only manager who's really got anything out of Gerrard consistently (other than that renaissance at the back end of last season) was Rafa because he knew how to get the most out of such a one off talent.

As for Lucas/Spearing that was a midfield combination that did the donkey work and allowed others to shine. You put Gerrard alongside either and it completely changes the dynamics of the midfield.

It's about building a platform Al. You play with four forwards you need two grafters in the middle of the park. Otherwise you're Ardiles' Tottenham and concede 50 league goals.

[Eeyore]

You surely cannot mean that a team with Jay Spearing in centre midfield could in any way be a better side than a team with Steven Gerrard in it playing the same position.

When it was required Gerrard could sit in and do a hard-working job in a two, he did it v Chelsea with Mascherano in 2007 2nd leg. He did it with Didi at home to a great Juventus side and ran the show against some super midfield players.

The point is though, he has so much more to give going forward that he will get caught with more options than a Jay Spearing or a Momo Sissoko who couldn't pass the ball further than 15 yards or create any danger no matter how much space he was given.

That's a bit like saying that a Liverpool midfield with Molby as a centre mid would always be better than a central midfield with Whelan in it. Molby had a much better passing range, scored more goals and had more ability,

The thing is a side needs facilitators in it, players who will do the hard yards week in week out and will sacrifice themselves for the team.

[bigbear]

That's a bit like saying that a Liverpool midfield with Molby as a centre mid would always be better than a central midfield with Whelan in it. Molby had a much better passing range, scored more goals and had more ability,

The thing is a side needs facilitators in it, players who will do the hard yards week in week out and will sacrifice themselves for the team.

Not really. Molby and Whelan were both great players. In fact as you will recall Ronnie started off as a midfielder who would get into the box and get himself some goals and had a good level of ability. He adjusted his game as he went on to be the holding midfield player but he was always a great player.

[Coolie High]

That's a bit like saying that a Liverpool midfield with Molby as a centre mid would always be better than a central midfield with Whelan in it. Molby had a much better passing range, scored more goals and had more ability,

The thing is a side needs facilitators in it, players who will do the hard yards week in week out and will sacrifice themselves for the team.

What did the Lucas Spearing partnership do but have a few decent games? How can you call it a great partnership?

The Gerrard Henderson Coutinho/Allen three, was part of the reason we were 2nd in the league.

[Eeyore]

What did the Lucas Spearing partnership do but have a few decent games? How can you call it a great partnership?

The Gerrard Henderson Coutinho/Allen three, was part of the reason we were 2nd in the league.

Or looking at it another way the Suarez-Sturridge partnership nearly won us the League and the lack of a solid platform in midfield probably cost us the League.

[Coolie High]

He was talking about central midfield partnerships. Gerrard has had a great career and seasons when he's been genuinely world class but for club and country you won't really look back on his career and say "he formed a great central midfield pairing with .......". He could link up with a player fantastically (Torres/Alonso in 08/09 for example) but there was never the Keane/Scholes esque partnership in the middle of the park for Liverpool or England.

The Keane Scholes partnership, did as much as the Gerrard/Alonso partnership in Europe.

And they also played in the 90's, before managers were playing a midfield three in large numbers and also monopolized the best attacking players in the league. We went to 2nd in the league last year playing with Gerrrard as a CM, because of great attacking players around him, Keane and Scholes are great players, but thats not to dispute that a lot of Uniteds better work came through their wings and forwards, like us last season.

Scholes got praised at the back end of his career, for having seasons exactly like the ones Gerrard did last season.

And Gerrard/Hamman was a very good partnership, surround them with the attacking quality that United had and Ferguson has the manager and we would have won a whole lot of trophies including the PL.

[Coolie High]

Or looking at it another way the Suarez-Sturridge partnership nearly won us the League and the lack of a solid platform in midfield probably cost us the League.

Or look at it another way, Beckham/Giggs/Yorke Cole and Cantona won United the league during those great years and a lack of solid platform cost them in Europe, with them only winning 1 CL during their golden years?

Really its a silly argument, Suarez and Sturridge was probably the sole reason we went to 2nd place, but Gerrard Coutinho and Henderson all had great performances during our  run, everybody played their part.

When we were beating Everton Spurs, Arsenal, United while only conceding one goal, no one was talking about a lack of solid platform, a lot of our goals in fact was due to Gerrard playing a beautiful ball to Suarez or Sturridge and us going from there.

[Fromola]

The Keane Scholes partnership, did as much as the Gerrard/Alonso partnership in Europe.

True, but I think Ferguson was often very tactically naive in the CL before Quierioz. When I think of the Gerrard/Alonso centre mid partnership, the first half of Istanbul is what comes to mind. It never really worked.

And they also played in the 90's, before managers were playing a midfield three in large numbers and also monopolized the best attacking players in the league. We went to 2nd in the league last year playing with Gerrrard as a CM, because of great attacking players around him, Keane and Scholes are great players, but thats not to dispute that a lot of Uniteds better work came through their wings and forwards, like us last season.

They never conceded 50 league goals though.

Scholes got praised at the back end of his career, for having seasons exactly like the ones Gerrard did last season.

Scholes was a very basic, functional footballer in his latter years. He just kept the ball ticking over in midfield, that was all he did. A bit like Pirlo now.

And Gerrard/Hamman was a very good partnership, surround them with the attacking quality that United had and Ferguson has the manager and we would have won a whole lot of trophies including the PL.

I'd agree with the trophy point.

[Fordy]

Gerrard has never been a brilliant defender.  His defensive positioning, work rate and reading of the game when the opponent has the ball just aren't up to it.

He is what he is.  Amazing vision, brilliant passing, ball control and overall technique that few can match.  He was allowed to play the pirlo role last season and did it superbly, but he was given so much space because our attack was lethal.  What manager was going to put a man on Gerrard when Suarez, Sturridge, sterling and Coutinho would then have the space?

We've lost our main threat, our second threat has been injured, our third has been wiped out by too many games and too much pressure,  and our little Brazilian has been struggling to get a run in the side.

Gerrard has been marked a lot in games and we've struggled to keep hold of the ball, so his defensive weaknesses are being shown up.  He's not a barn storming dm, he's a playmaker who can tackle well.

Spot on.

Makes me laugh when people say he is playing as a DM. He isn't he is playing as a playmaker from a deep position.

The problem is times are now closely marking him and he is finding it hard to find space. Also the none moment from our forwards isn't helping as when he is on the ball he can't find the killer pass.

It's no shock that our best passes in the team in Gerrard and Henderson are both struggling badly this season.

[Cid]

Or looking at it another way the Suarez-Sturridge partnership nearly won us the League and the lack of a solid platform in midfield probably cost us the League.

Nah.  Fullbacks that wouldn't start for most mid table teams and shocking centre backs cost us the league.  The slip aside, we gave away some horrendous goals last season.

[JJ Red]

"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain"

Aaron Eckhart/Harvey Dent - The Dark Knight

[Fordy]

Or looking at it another way the Suarez-Sturridge partnership nearly won us the League and the lack of a solid platform in midfield probably cost us the League.

Really mate?

Totally disagree. Our defence cost us the title.

[Rexy]

I've only just realised the Gerrard's moved house in September! Bit behind the times, not that I take much notice in what players do away from the club to be honest like. I take it he bought somewhere around the Liverpool area still?

[L666KOP]

Really mate?

Totally disagree. Our defence cost us the title.

Sometimes the defence needs a bit of protection, and our midfield was as much use as a condom with the end cut off.

The one thing that made us so prolific was what cost us in the end.

It's no use going into battle with the best weapons that money can buy if you forget to put your body armour on, the cute opposition will always find a way through. And once they do you're just a sitting duck.

[Fromola]

Nah.  Fullbacks that wouldn't start for most mid table teams and shocking centre backs cost us the league.  The slip aside, we gave away some horrendous goals last season.

Skrtel, Sakho and Agger were three of the better centre backs in the league at least on paper.

Lovren was one of the better ones in the league hence the price. But what did he have that ours didnt? A very solid midfield. Hence him looking hopelessly exposed for us.

[kcbworth]

Nah.  Fullbacks that wouldn't start for most mid table teams and shocking centre backs cost us the league.

Shocking CBs ?!?!? 

The slip aside, we gave away some horrendous goals last season.

True. Personally don't think that is due to quality of Agger, Skrtel, and Sakho though myself

[Coolie High]

Skrtel, Sakho and Agger were three of the better centre backs in the league at least on paper.

Lovren was one of the better ones in the league hence the price. But what did he have that ours didnt? A very solid midfield. Hence him looking hopelessly exposed for us.

Not sure about that.

[L666KOP]

Not sure about that.

They are certainly better on paper than they played.

[Fromola]

Not sure about that.

City won the league with only two good defenders in the squad including only one adequate full back in Zabaleta.

[Coolie High]

City won the league with only two good defenders in the squad including only one adequate full back in Zabaleta.

If we had Kompany and Zabaleta we probably would have won the league as well, their the best players in the league in their respective positions.

And i would take Nastacic and Clichy over Cissokho and Sakho.