Topic: Gerrard - quoted as 'Gerrard open to move from Liverpool'

[flipflan]

Daws - 

[Mutton Geoff]

To be fair whatever Rodgers does he is going to get hammered by some in here!

[steveeastend]

To be fair whatever Rodgers does he is going to get hammered by some in here!

It's all about the new contract though... FSG.

[scumbagcollege]

You're right, but
1. We had Sturridge and Suarez up front then. They would help to make you and me look good in midfield 
2. Do you honestly think that a midfield of Lucas and Allen is the way forward?

No Sturridge for either game. (As an aside, did you know Lucas seldom played in the same team as Suarez, Sturridge and Sterling?)
I would have Lucas DM every game and, depending on the opposition, anyone from Henderson, Can or Allen in a 2. Plus Gerrard and Coutinho in a 3 or a diamond.

[Guz-kop]

They need to get near the table first but there is something blocking the door into the room.

Henderson has played nearly every game this season and is struggling badly and games are passing him by. He's 24, he's vice captain, he should be kicking on from last season but looks list. Lucas is the only one not really getting much of a look in.

[Fromola]

Henderson has played nearly every game this season and is struggling badly and games are passing him by. He's 24, he's vice captain, he should be kicking on from last season but looks list. Lucas is the only one not really getting much of a look in.

I do think Henderson, Gerrard, Allen, Coutinho  and Sterling are all struggling from not having Suarez in the team and Sturridge as well since August.  We haven't got a great midfield and it was negligently not built on properly in the summer while we went after more luxury players we didn't particularly need (Markovic, Lallana) and who don't fit into the side.

I think Henderson has been messed about a lot this season and is taking one for the team a lot, like on Saturday being tasked with keeping Fabregas quiet. For me, he's an energetic pass and move footballer and when that's what he's being deployed as he's very good. But we haven't passed and moved all season bar maybe the first half against Swansea in the cup where he was playing really well. The team don't press anymore either, so he's gone from helping Suarez with a high press to the lethargic Balotelli. Obviously he didn't play in Madrid. Henderson 'played nearly every game' is also part of the problem. He's used to playing once a week and not three times. Plus all the internatinals now he's an England regular. He's probably dead on his feet plus carrying niggles.

[GrkStav]

You're right, but
1. We had Sturridge and Suarez up front then. They would help to make you and me look good in midfield 
2. Do you honestly think that a midfield of Lucas and Allen is the way forward?

As opposed to whom, and what does "the way forward" really entail?

Gerrard-Henderson is not a good 2 in a 4231.

[Eeyore]

As opposed to whom, and what does "the way forward" really entail?

Gerrard-Henderson is not a good 2 in a 4231.

When has Gerrard + Another ever worked in a 2 ?

[Mutton Geoff]

Henderson has played nearly every game this season and is struggling badly and games are passing him by. He's 24, he's vice captain, he should be kicking on from last season but looks list. Lucas is the only one not really getting much of a look in.

is Henderson playing his natural game or being the leg man running around like a headless chicken, i dont know he seems hurried in all his play and for me needs to relax,

i would simply like to see a Can, Lucas Henderson or Allen in a three or in a diamond with Coutinho or Lallana ahead of them in just one game to see how it gets on, we can still have Stevie on the bench if it went tits up.

[redprodigal]

I would have Lucas DM every game

At the moment or in the future too?

[scumbagcollege]

At the moment or in the future too?

Until somebody proved themselves better for the team. Maybe Can, Rossiter or somebody we bought in,  (Schneiderlin?)?

[redprodigal]

Until somebody proved themselves better for the team. Maybe Can, Rossiter or somebody we bought in,  (Schneiderlin?)?

Wouldn't argue with that. It's just one of the positions we should be looking at improving in the next couple of transfer windows.

[Number 7]

/

Fabulous Daws.

It's a conundrum, and Rodgers needs to do address it.  The problem is he feels compelled to show loyalty to Gerrard, and that's why it's probably going to be the hardest decision he's had to make as Liverpool manager. Ironically, it may also be the one that separates the Liverpool of now from the Liverpool going forward.

[GrkStav]

When has Gerrard + Another ever worked in a 2 ?

Amazingly enough, Gerrard + Lucas has worked the 'best'. Not that it was particularly good, but not quite as bad as too many people have concluded.

[Billy The Kid]

To be fair whatever Rodgers does he is going to get hammered by some in here!

As opposed to his predecessors who escaped hammering by some in here?

[Mutton Geoff]

As opposed to his predecessors who escaped hammering by some in here?

Billy all managers and even legends have sadly been hammered in here by some, but none have ever had to organise phasing out another legend.

Which ever way Brendan moves with this he will be the villain for some.

[L666KOP]

Billy all managers and even legends have sadly been hammered in here by some, but none have ever had to organise phasing out another legend.

Which ever way Brendan moves with this he will be the villain for some.

The problem is of his own creating though mate.

He's making it into a 'Black or White' decision. By phasing him out gradually he could find some 'Grey'.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if Gerrard played every minute, of every game until May, then left.

The more I think about it, the less likely it is that he will play a reducing role.

[God's Left Peg]

Everyone at the club is part of the reason - but the fixation with Gerrard on here is ridiculous.....I suspect that some (subconsciously) resent him for the Chelsea game last season....while others have long-standing agendas that wouldn't budge even if he bagged a hat-trick of bicycle kicks at Stamford Bridge.....either way it seems odd that on a forum without player threads - he has one dedicated, in the main, to bashing him...and its given a total walkover by the mods.....I would say that out of everyone on the playing staff, he seems hungover and damaged by the intensity of last years exploits - the slip, the whole 'we go again' final scene, the failure to grab that League winners medal that he knows has now eluded him - and then the departure of the beating heart of the side - has visibly rocked him....but he's not alone in this - there isnt a single player who's kept anything like the form of last season, and some of its brightest stars (Henderson, Sterling, Couthino) have also looked jaded and half assed ....so how about giving him some of that support that you unconditionally (and admirably) lend to every other player at the club?......its not like he doesnt need it

Whilst this is a sensible and admirable post, it doesn't detract from the difficulty presented by his age and playing every minute of every game. Gerrard could retire now an absolute legend and that simply isn't going to change. It doesn't mean that some of his current contributions cannot be deemed as damaging to the team.

[Fromola]

The problem is of his own creating though mate.

He's making it into a 'Black or White' decision. By phasing him out gradually he could find some 'Grey'.

He could have done it by now. Since Rodgers took over he's played every available minute in the Premier League. This is now a problem entirely of his own making as a result because he's created it into an issue it doesn't need to be if he does start leaving him out more.

Kenny subbed him off in games. Rafa rested him and subbed him off league and cup when he was at peak fitness and performance. He's now 34!

[TSC]

He could have done it by now. Since Rodgers took over he's played every available minute in the Premier League. This is now a problem entirely of his own making as a result because he's created it into an issue it doesn't need to be if he does start leaving him out more.

Kenny subbed him off in games. Rafa rested him and subbed him off league and cup when he was at peak fitness and performance. He's now 34!

Shoot him already!

More seriously, another issue that Rodgers has now unfortunately is the lack of form and/or talent from the other midfield players.  Collectively a midfield should protect the back four, create chances, and chip in with goals.  Right now our midfield are not performing well re any of those.  Now at least Can showed ability to get within sight of goal on Sat.  But individually and collectively all have been pretty poor in general.  So I feel a bit for Rodgers as he's caught between a rock and a hard place at the moment.

[L666KOP]

He could have done it by now. Since Rodgers took over he's played every available minute in the Premier League. This is now a problem entirely of his own making as a result because he's created it into an issue it doesn't need to be if he does start leaving him out more.

Kenny subbed him off in games. Rafa rested him and subbed him off league and cup when he was at peak fitness and performance. He's now 34!

Exactly. I'll bet he's playing more minutes now than he ever has done.

It's an admirable job keeping him fit, but his body must be feeling the effects.

Perhaps Brendan 'knows' the end is near and is giving him one last hurrah ?

[NorthamptonKopite]

I agree with a few that it is time to give Lucas the shot in midfield.

For the Palace game I would go with a 3 man midfield -


    Henderson   Can
             Lucas

Get Lucas behind those two and dominate the midfield.

[Halcyon Lissome]

...

Great, post, agree almost entirely.

Sadly the bi-product of all of this is that some of you are slating other players to defend Gerrard it has always happened with the minority who think he is bigger than this club!
For the good of the club and his own job perhaps Rodgers needs to look for strategies and formations that do not rely on a player with less than a years football at this level still in him , that's the reality of the situation we are in, unless Stevie has got a portrait in his attic , time will defeat him in the end!
People can make all excuses for him they like but his legs are going even his biggest fans deep down know this!
Does that mean he is finished hell no but he needs to be part of the squad rather than playing every game in my opinion!

The classic Geoffstong strawman. An argument that doesn't actually exist. Ironically, everyone uses other players to slate Gerrard (if x, y and z aren't playing well, it's because Gerrard's passing is useless for them, or they're tired running for Gerrard, or they're intimidated by Gerrard, etc)

Strange, Kompany stated at the time that the hardest game City faced last season at home was against us at the Etihad (and they had already played Bayern!) The midfield was Lucas, Henderson & Allen. The same midfield that played in the game that cost AVB his job. 

Yeah, but the game at Anfield; which they lost, came later in the season .

Funny, my response was going to be:

http://anfieldindex.com/6816/tottenham-vs-liverpool-review-match-stats.html

Ironically, no one says "well we don't have Suarez's movement and creativity up front so that midfield is useless now".

I keep hearing this myth that he hasnt been the same player but Lucas has been fine when he has played DM the last 9 or 10 games (mostly played without Gerrard partnering him) I dont think him and Gerrard are a good fit. Time to go back to a Lucas and anyone but Gerrard midfield, I would say.

Lucas used to be the best DM in the league; one of the top 5 in Europe pre-injuries. That's what people are referring to I think. He isn't that anymore. Still, a very good DM though.

Amazingly enough, Gerrard + Lucas has worked the 'best'. Not that it was particularly good, but not quite as bad as too many people have concluded.

Well, once something becomes established on RAWK it becomes "x can't work".

[Mutton Geoff]

HL as usual meaningless attacks on anyone who goes against your obsessional worship of all things Gerrard!
You can't reasonably discuss this problem because
A you don't think there is a problem and B you refuse to see any point of view other than your blinkered one!
Strawman is seeking to blame everyone else on the pitch for Gerrard getting older and quite obviously now losing his legs!
Get in the real world captain fantastic has gone and a good squad member remains !

[redprodigal]

Lucas used to be the best DM in the league; one of the top 5 in Europe pre-injuries. That's what people are referring to I think. He isn't that anymore. Still, a very good DM though.

I think the percentage of football people both in this country and on the continent agreeing with you on that subject would be pretty low to be honest.
I thought he was decent but nowhere near that good.
Each to his own though.

[The 5th Benitle]

I think the percentage of football people both in this country and on the continent agreeing with you on that subject would be pretty low to be honest.

You're transferring your low opinion onto others - and it's misguided. He was very, very highly rated before his injury.

["21C or 70F?" SchizoidWeatherMan!]

I think the percentage of football people both in this country and on the continent agreeing with you on that subject would be pretty low to be honest.
I thought he was decent but nowhere near that good.
Each to his own though.

He was rated as one of the top midfielders in the league by most Liverpool supporters, media pundits and even Man Utd supporters who cared to watch us. Let me see if I can link you to old threads from redcafe to prove it
 
At his peak, there weren't many better in Europe in that holding role.

[L666KOP]

He was rated as one of the top midfielders in the league by most Liverpool supporters, media pundits and even Man Utd supporters who cared to watch us. Let me see if I can link you to old threads from redcafe to prove it
 
At his peak, there weren't many better in Europe in that holding role.

I remember a pass map that was used on Redcafe of Lucas against them, and everyone was gobsmacked at just how much control he had over them.

[redprodigal]

You're transferring your low opinion onto others - and it's misguided. He was very, very highly rated before his injury.

I don't have a low opinion of him but he was never the best.
Does anyone think he even came close to the likes of Essien for example?

["21C or 70F?" SchizoidWeatherMan!]

I remember a pass map that was used on Redcafe of Lucas against them, and everyone was gobsmacked at just how much control he had over them.

Yep, remember reading multiple threads on Lucas and his understated importance to our side. Most of them acknowledged that he had tranformed into a genuinely top quality holding midfielder who would walk into their side.

[redprodigal]

He was rated as one of the top midfielders in the league by most Liverpool supporters,

That is definitely not true.
If you were on forums or attended matches around that period there were loads of people who were not agreeing with you.

[Istanbul Therapy Group]

I don't have a low opinion of him but he was never the best.
Does anyone think he even came close to the likes of Essien for example?

The Torres 2-0 game against Chelsea at Anfield, Lucas absolutely dominated that midfield that included Essien, Lampard etc.

Whether he was as good as Essien at his peak was debatable, probably not. He had it in him to be top 5 DM in the league, but I think the injuries have made that impossible now.

["21C or 70F?" SchizoidWeatherMan!]

That is definitely not true.
If you were on forums or attended matches around that period there were loads of people who were not agreeing with you.

He was voted as the player of the year for fucks sake!

[redprodigal]

Whether he was as good as Essien at his peak was debatable, probably not. He had it in him to be top 5 DM in the league, but I think the injuries have made that impossible now.

I concur.

[DeLeiva]

The Torres 2-0 game against Chelsea at Anfield, Lucas absolutely dominated that midfield that included Essien, Lampard etc.

Whether he was as good as Essien at his peak was debatable, probably not. He had it in him to be top 5 DM in the league, but I think the injuries have made that impossible now.

Every time we played City that year he also had David Silva in his pocket.

He was immense that year, voted best player in the Northwest: http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-fc-midfielder-lucas-named-3360210

That is definitely not true.
If you were on forums or attended matches around that period there were loads of people who were not agreeing with you.

Well that's total bollocks cause he was voted Northwest footballer of the year', won Liverpool's 'Player of the year' and 'Fan's player of the year'

[L666KOP]

Yep, remember reading multiple threads on Lucas and his understated importance to our side. Most of them acknowledged that he had tranformed into a genuinely top quality holding midfielder who would walk into their side.

He'd walk into it now to be fair. He's better than what they have. He's also the best DM we have.

He's no longer a 3 game a week player I'll agree, but to not get any game time at all ?

Stretching the opinion that he's finished as a player imo.

Always makes me laugh, but even when he was the best at what he did you'd always get people saying "Yeah, but what does he actually do ?"

If you know, then you know.

[redprodigal]

Well that's total bollocks cause he was voted Northwest footballer of the year', won Liverpool's 'Player of the year' and 'Fan's player of the year'

Yep, by the second half of that season even his haters admitted they were wrong about him. Generally though over the 3 year period prior to that he had a lot of shite directed in his direction as we all know.
He was never in the same class as Essien though but that's in the past, I would definitely play him at the present time. He needs to start before Stevie in quite a few games.

[scumbagcollege]

The Torres 2-0 game against Chelsea at Anfield, Lucas absolutely dominated that midfield that included Essien, Lampard etc.

Whether he was as good as Essien at his peak was debatable, probably not. He had it in him to be top 5 DM in the league, but I think the injuries have made that impossible now.

I think him hardly getting selected at DM has made that a virtual impossibility now!

[Fromola]

Exactly. I'll bet he's playing more minutes now than he ever has done.

It's an admirable job keeping him fit, but his body must be feeling the effects.

Perhaps Brendan 'knows' the end is near and is giving him one last hurrah ?

Hardly. He's chief lobbyist for his new contract.

[L666KOP]

Hardly. He's chief lobbyist for his new contract.

"I can say categorically that Mario won't be with us."