Topic: Jordan Henderson

[-Daws-]

Great post. The only bit I'd slightly disagree with is the '...no outstanding qualities'. Someone else brought out one of those qualities as a criticism 'average in all areas' is how he put it - same was said of Lucas. A jack-of-all-trades is exactly what you want as a central midfielder, especially when, like Lucas too, Henderson seems to possess an outstanding football brain, and outstanding ability on the ball. It's very difficult to be consistently tidy and reliable, even under pressure, even when you're not necessarily playing that well. He's got the same mastery of all the basics that Lucas had and that in itself is an, perhaps even the, outstanding quality in any young player.

You and I know it is an outstanding quality in a young player mate, but some/most people don't see past goals, assists and hollywood balls.

[Pendzo]

For me, Jordan somewhat sums up the current Liverpool side, raw, incomplete, but with the basic attributes to be very successful given time and patience, something which unfortunately is rarely afford in football generally, not just on RAWK.

What I like about Henderson is his movement and the way he can travel with the ball while keeping his head up. This means he can bring the play forward comfortably and pop the ball off in tight situations to a man in space. Given his technical ability and the graceful way in which he moves while retaining the ball, he looks like he can become a very good ball carrier for the side in the long run and go on to become a top player at club and international level. Yes he is far from complete, but the basic qualities are already there and he is an intelligent player in a high tempo league still finding his feet. Much like the team in general, at times he has looked very good, others poor, and in general it's his inconsistancy and to a degree his final product which has let him down. The boy has ability though, I can see it. He's also quite versatile.

A player like Henderson is much like a player like Xavi. Yes, Steven Gerrard was firing all guns blazing at 21-22, but Gerrard was physically a lot more imposing and a lot more agressive and dynamic; it was easy for Stevie to stand out because of these obvious qualities. Now compare that to somebody like Xavi (Lucas too), who although technically superior, almost seemed a little out of his depth in the Bacelona side when he was the same age as Jordan, and you can see why some players can stand out more than others given their different strengths. Sometimes, a young player who doesn't take games by the scuff of the neck and obviously stand out, can go on to be a just as good a player as somebody who does. Certain qualities and abilities are easier to see than others. Lucas is a perfect example of a young player who didn't show any outstanding signs of being a great player at a young age, but because of his intelligence and game craft, has gone on to be an influencial part of this team. I feel, Henderson will go much the same way.

He has the foresight to know when to tuck inside when Stevie bombs on, he has the technical quality to keep the ball in tight situations and the passing ability to pick players out even when he is under pressure. He has had poor games this season, but he is one of many playing in a brand new football team and for christ sake, he's 21. Senior players like Carra, Skrtel, Gerrard even Suarez or Reina, have all made mistakes this season in this newly founded Liverpool side and I for one feel that Jordan needs time and support in order to fulfill his, in my opinion, excellent potential. Much like the team does in general.

I think his best role will be the ball carrier in centre midfield, whether we play with 3 through the middle (say, Stevie given the licence to get forward and Lucas holding with Henderson playing a more box to box role) or in a couple of years in just a two man midfield, he has all the required basic qualities, and most importantly the football brain, to be successful in these positions. Even from the right, he has looked capable of doing a job and also allows us to play with a more advanced centre midfielder because he's clever enough to know when he needs to drop in or when he could make a run beyond the strikers (he used to do this more often at Sunderland). For me, like the Liverpool team as a whole, he's just lacking that consistancy and a bit of confidence this season, but given time to settle, get used to his new surroundings and gel with his team mates, I believe he will also become a very important player to our club, particularly when Stevie calls it a day.

But of course this is RAWK, and this is modern day football, so unless he is scoring 10 a season with 15 assists at 21, then he's shite. I'll tell you what's shite - Liverpool fans being the most "intelligent in the world." We have turned into an embarrisment.

Take a bow for that.

[Coolie High]

I'm comparing a 21 year old Xavi, to a 21 year old Henderson, their similarities in style and strengths and weaknesses at the same age. Of course he isn't the player Xavi is now, that would be fucking ridiculous.

Lucas was shite four years ago, I seem to remember. Right about that one too, weren't ya?

LOL, he isn't the player Xavi was at 20/21 either.

[Hazell]

Not Liverpool standard, is he?

Lets be honest.

Yeah, take that Daws!

[Coolie High]

Its an interesting debate as to how good he could be or not. If you compare the role he plays for the England U21s he plays central and makes a lot of short passes, much like Carrick who doesnt stand out for the Mancs but is a regular which i think is a closer comparison than the one with Xavi.

He is a longer term replacement for a post Gerrard midfield and was probably bought a year or two too soon.  He does look to be hiding in some games but he is young and under serious pressure to perform in a position he is not suited to and looks short of confidence expecting to be subbed at any time. but i would still have him ahead of Adam.

What makes it hilarious, is that people on here laugh when the Mancs compare Cleverley to Iniesta, just because you have similar traits to a world class player does not mean you have the propensity to be one yourself. Henderson isn't any more like Xavi because he makes short passes, than Taarabt is like Ronaldinho because he does flicks.

[-Daws-]

Yeah, take that Daws!

I stand corrected!

[Coolie High]

You and I know it is an outstanding quality in a young player mate, but some/most people don't see past goals, assists and hollywood balls.

Yet players like Modric and Alonso are highly rated here.

[Rohit]

You and I know it is an outstanding quality in a young player mate, but some/most people don't see past goals, assists and hollywood balls.

It's considered hiding apparently if a player just keeps it simple and keeps the ball rather than going for the final pass when it isn't on. Funny thing is, I wonder how many people know what a central midfielders job is. It's not to score goals, nor isit to gain assists primarily. Its to give the rest of the team the platform to attack while they keep the ball and use it to there team mates advantage.

[unusg]

See I don't agree with people when they say 'replacement for Gerrard' I don't think we can replace Steven Gerrard. For sure - we will move on as a football club, players all come and go and we will get much success without Steven Gerrard but I don't feel Hendo will replace him in that way like.

agree with you. my point was more that we will have to have a different kind of midfield set up and skill set when gerrard finishes as there isnt a like for like replacement out there

[PhlegmJehst]

fail to see why we bother playing him at all when every time he plays its out of position......no wonder he looks fucking average....versatile he isnt, central midfielder he is....

[-Daws-]

What makes it hilarious, is that people on here laugh when the Mancs compare Cleverley to Iniesta, just because you have similar traits to a world class player does not mean you have the propensity to be one yourself. Henderson isn't any more like Xavi because he makes short passes, than Taarabt is like Ronaldinho because he does flicks.

Considering there's a 3/4 year gap between Iniesta and Cleverley, and a 10 year gap between Henderson and Xavi, I don't think that is entirely fair.

Let's get this straight, I'm not saying Henderson is going to be as good as Xavi, infact I doubt he will be. Doesn't mean he can't be an excellent player for Liverpool. Xavi grew up in a different country playing for a different team, and they are different people. I'm merely comparing styles. I mean, I play at low level Saturday league and have a footballing style comparable with say, James Milners. Will I ever be as good as James Milner? No, of course I fucking won't. I'm comparing the styles and the appraoch to the game.

Some people on here just don't fucking get it do they?

Ps, just for the record, I do agree with this...

agree with you. my point was more that we will have to have a different kind of midfield set up and skill set when gerrard finishes as there isnt a like for like replacement out there

No two players are the same.

[GonzalezIsARed]

fail to see why we bother playing him at all when every time he plays its out of position......no wonder he looks fucking average....versatile he isnt, central midfielder he is....

This also - when played out wide - Kenny has made it easy for those who scapegoat to just go 'oh yeah hes shite n'all' - when things haven't been going right.

Its not like we are really short for options wide right.

Not having a go at Kenny by the way, just feel Henderson has been over-played at times.

[Coolie High]

Considering there's a 3/4 year gap between Iniesta and Cleverley, and a 10 year gap between Henderson and Xavi, I don't think that is entirely fair.

Let's get this straight, I'm not saying Henderson is going to be as good as Xavi, infact I doubt he will be. Doesn't mean he can't be an excellent player for Liverpool. Xavi grew up in a different country playing for a different team, and they are different people. I'm merely comparing styles. I mean, I play at low level Saturday league and have a footballing style comparable with say, James Milners. Will I ever be as good as James Milner? No, of course I fucking won't. I'm comparing the styles and the appraoch to the game.

Some people on here just don't fucking get it do they?

The point is that the Mancs like us see similar traits that their player has with one of the best midfielders in the world, and instantly draw up a comparison, similar to what many are doing here. As for the comparisons with Xavi and Henderson i can't see it, other than the fact that Henderson has a tendency to keep the ball short rather than make long balls, a tendency that the vast majority of premier league midfielders have, excluding that i don't see the similarities in their approach to the game.

[Redd Foxx]

Considering there's a 3/4 year gap between Iniesta and Cleverley, and a 10 year gap between Henderson and Xavi, I don't think that is entirely fair.

Let's get this straight, I'm not saying Henderson is going to be as good as Xavi, infact I doubt he will be. Doesn't mean he can't be an excellent player for Liverpool. Xavi grew up in a different country playing for a different team, and they are different people. I'm merely comparing styles. I mean, I play at low level Saturday league and have a footballing style comparable with say, James Milners. Will I ever be as good as James Milner? No, of course I fucking won't. I'm comparing the styles and the appraoch to the game.

Some people on here just don't fucking get it do they?

Ps, just for the record, I do agree with this...

No two players are the same.

We could use a Milner in the side...when can you come in for a trial?

Anyway, very much liked your post and agree that styles make players - and comparisons with established players are the easiest way to classify styles.  The Xavi comparison is apt, which really is on display on the (albeit too few) occasions Jordan was allowed to play through the middle.  I for one am excited to see the kind of player he can develop into given time, patience, and like-minded pass and move players around him.

[-Daws-]

Yet players like Modric and Alonso are highly rated here.

Who doesn't rate these two?

Both are older and more experienced. Modric gets plenty of assists and his dribbling ability makes him stand out from other midfielders in the league, and if Xabi's crossfield swinging passes are not 'hollywood', then I don't know what is.

To be honest mate, I haven't posted much here in recent years but I have been reading through the threads over the last few weeks and months, and you don't seem like the brightest, so why don't you stop wasting my time, put a decent post together and tell me why he's no good, or just stop quoting me and responding with a shitty one liner every time, because I can't be fucking arsed.

[Suarez7Carroll9]

If Henderson had the right players around him and was played in his position, we would see the best of him. The likes of Carroll, Adam are not on the same wavelength as him. They will never be good enough for Liverpool Football Club.

You have seen lots of times Henderson has linked up with Kuyt, Suarez, Gerrard etc with one touch passing because they all like to play pass and move.

[Fordy]

If Henderson had the right players around him and was played in his position, we would see the best of him. The likes of Carroll, Adam are not on the same wavelength as him. They will never be good enough for Liverpool Football Club.

You have seen lots of times Henderson has linked up with Kuyt, Suarez, Gerrard etc with one touch passing because they all like to play pass and move.

Seriously mate what a load of tosh.

It's funny how you saying others are not good enough for Liverpool but the woeful Henderson is.

Don't get it.

Anyone who has watched Henderson closely over the years will know the lad won't make it here.

He is what I call a lucky footballer.

[scouse29]

Seriously mate what a load of tosh.

It's funny how you saying others are not good enough for Liverpool but the woeful Henderson is.

Don't get it.

Anyone who has watched Henderson closely over the years will know the lad won't make it here.

He is what I call a lucky footballer.

Over the years? He is 21 not 28. I presume you followed him at Sunderland?

You are one of a very small bunch of people that can't see his talent but then again you rate Adam. Enough said!

[Saint Kopite]

Over the years? He is 21 not 28. I presume you followed him at Sunderland?

You are one of a very small bunch of people that can't see his talent but then again you rate Adam. Enough said!

Fordy has been coaching him since he was two years old. From then only he knew, Henderson won't make it at Liverpool FC when he goes there.

[The G in Gerrard]

Anyone who has watched Henderson closely over the years will know the lad won't make it here.

Over the years? Maybe if he was a one season wonder your opinion would be different.

If we want to develop Henderson we need to get him settled in one position til end of season imo

[MartinSkrtelsBasement]

Before I expand, let me issue this in case people decide to skim read this post. I think Jordan Henderson is a good, clever little player, and he could well live up to his price-tag, which isn't huge considering his age, reputation and of course, his nationality.

There are over-reactions on both sides of the argument here. He certainly hasn't set the league alight, but saying 'he's never going to be good enough' or 'he's not Liverpool standard' is premature and unproductive. As many have rightly pointed out, people said exactly the same kind of things about Lucas.

He shouldn't however, be exempt from criticism because of his age. Those who can't recognise his abilities in certain areas, are no different like those who can't realize that he has been consistently one of our weak links this season; they are slightly deluded.

That to me, is down to a few things in relation to his mentality. When the heat is on, Henderson hides. Some have labelled him a 'bottler', which although unkind, Henderson has not exactly done much to prove otherwise. When the shots on he opts to pass; when there's a 50/50 he's usually second to it and when we need something from somewhere, you certainly won't get Henderson driving forward.

As I say though, he's clearly got potential. A great technique, tidy pass and move game and a decent athlete on top of that. Charlie Adam described him as the club's 'teachers pet' in an interview I saw on LFCTV and that to me tells the story so far: He's scared of fucking up.

He's been over relied on aswell btw, give Shelvey a few games!!! What's the worst that can happen.

[Pistolero]

A fair minded and correct assessment..

[Discipline]

Played bad yesterday, but was definitely an improvement on Adam after HT. 

[Z e u s]

Yesterday was probably his worst game for us.  But I like him as a player and think if we are patient with him and play him in his best position which is central - then he could be a real player in the future.

[Fordy]

Over the years? Maybe if he was a one season wonder your opinion would be different.

If we want to develop Henderson we need to get him settled in one position til end of season imo

We had tried that at RM.

As for the one season wonder comment - This is the thing. Henderson has never had a good overall season.

[Fordy]

Yesterday was probably his worst game for us.  But I like him as a player and think if we are patient with him and play him in his best position which is central - then he could be a real player in the future.

Don't kid yourself mate.. Central wouldn't make a difference.

[gypsymoth]

Take a bow for that.

ditto - food for thought and I'm definitely going to try and adjust the way I look at Hendo's play from now on. Great post

[Anfield Ed]

Just take the hit and sell him in the summer.....Kuyt and Maxi are far far superior for the right midfield role.

[Z e u s]

Don't kid yourself mate.. Central wouldn't make a difference.

Do you not rate him at all?

I see a young guy who has a very good engine, can pass, head and has a good attitude.  Plenty to work with IMO.

Shouldn't be a regular for us, but I think he is worth progressing with.

[DavidNgog90]

Don't kid yourself mate.. Central wouldn't make a difference.

But as we have witnessed, it has.

[Garcepticon]

We play a 4-4-2 with one wide midfielder (Downing) and the RM tucks inside and allows one of the CM's to break forward. Henderson has rarely played as a 'winger' or a 'wide man' all season.

I remember a John Henry quote in which he said something like 'we judge people based on an objective analysis of performance not on what we expect them to be doing.' I think a lot of the criticism of Henderson is a result of 'expectation thinking', people look on the right wing and expect to see Henderson flying up the flank and putting balls in the box. So when they say 'he's gone missing' they're wrong, he isn't missing you're just not looking in the right place for him. His job is to support the midfield and provide balance so that one of the CM's i.e., Gerrard can get forward. He has done that well, it is an important role but he doesn't get praise for it because people don't understand his role.

[DavidNgog90]

Just take the hit and sell him in the summer.....Kuyt and Maxi are far far superior for the right midfield role.

 

Kuyt and Maxi will probably be gone in the Summer.

[Gnurglan]

Don't kid yourself mate.. Central wouldn't make a difference.

Fordy, I think you may be too harsh on him. He's young and while he hasn't taken the world by storm, he has played a solid game. That's quite impressive in itself from a young player. I also believe he has shown a good mentality. He's not good enough to play every week, but I think he has done about what we can expect from him. It's the transfer fee that is/was the problem. And the fact that we have used him so much.

[Anfield Ed]

 

Kuyt and Maxi will probably be gone in the Summer.

Which says it all don't you think.........

We're going to keep a completely inept player like Henderson and give freebies to Maxi and Kuyt who each have a solid 2 years at a decent level still left in them - and even then still at a superior level to Henderson.

If Maxi and/or Kuyt had played or started as many games as Henderson this season, we'd be a better off.

[El_Pistolero]

Brilliant post mate, wholeheartedly agree.

[Fordy]

Do you not rate him at all?

I see a young guy who has a very good engine, can pass, head and has a good attitude.  Plenty to work with IMO.

Shouldn't be a regular for us, but I think he is worth progressing with.

Think he is overrated and always have. Don't believe for a second Utd were ever interested in him.

He lacks confidence and toughness to cut it for a top 4 PL club. You can't teach confidence.

That one England game in which he was a joke highlighted the lack of bottle and fight. I would hate it if he never plays for England again after that one game as he deserves another chance but that one game showed you all you needed to know.

Oh and age is no excuse for him - been playing in the PL for a while now.

[Fordy]

Fordy, I think you may be too harsh on him. He's young and while he hasn't taken the world by storm, he has played a solid game. That's quite impressive in itself from a young player. I also believe he has shown a good mentality. He's not good enough to play every week, but I think he has done about what we can expect from him. It's the transfer fee that is/was the problem. And the fact that we have used him so much.

See I don't think he does have a good mentality.. Lacks confidence and fight.

[farawayred]

See I don't think he does have a good mentality.. Lacks confidence and fight.

But these attributes alone are not enough, don't you think?

[Derzyjudek]

Has anyone actually seen him put a tackle in?

[redprodigal]

I see a young guy who has a very good engine, can pass, head and has a good attitude.  Plenty to work with IMO.

You've just described 99% of all 21 year old professional footballers.