Topic: Jordan Henderson

[kelevra]

Wish we'd play him in the middle - a 3 with Spearing and Gerrard.

And me. Think it would bring out the best of all 3 aswell

[lfcshaunod]

Not really sure how people can slag him for last nights performance.

Thought he put himself about a bit and showed a big willingness to get back and defend so kelly could get forward.  Its obvious he isnt made to be a right winger, but last night he did pretty well i thought.

[andy jay]

I thought that despite a few mistakes (and who in our team recently has not been making a few of those), Henderson's contribution last night was massively influential. Without him, we wouldn't have scored our first two goals. Fact. And that's why we bought him. And with more positive displays, and an improving team, he's only going to get better. Fact. The more we get behind him (at the match, and on here to turn the doubters into supporters) the more quickly he will improve. Fact.

We're all entitled to our opinions, but the 'he's shite, leave him out, fuck him off and sell him, he's never worth £20m' comments do nothing to help. Not unless you really don't want us to play better football and score more goals?

There are still people, believe it or not (heard a massive row about this before the game at Sunderland on Saturday) who don't rate Lucas.

Hopefully after last night, there will be a few less knocking JH when he contributes to a win over Stoke on Sunday. He needs to have the confidence to try to play through balls which may not come off, but when they do, will lead to a scoring chance. If we're knocking him every time he has a go, then he'll go backwards.

But I don't believe he will, and in a year's time, he'll be even more integral to our starting line-up than he is already. That's not a fact, but I'd be surprised if it's not the case.

[xavidub]

As long as he plays a central role, he is able to show why he is the singular success of last summer's transfer window.

[Grobbelrevell]

Watching a totally different game to me then.

Couldn't wait fo Dirk to come on myself.

Did you not notice the three or four absolutely delightful balls that he threaded through? On another day he comes off with two assists to his name. In addition to that he worked his absolute arse off, which was illustrated no better than in slotting in to cover for Kelly in the second half when he was slow to recover his position after a burst forward.

We saw both sides of Henderson last night. The current, rough, often indecisive version, and the Henderson that could come to be. Incisive, bright and energetic. He has shown some real promise and it amazes me that people don't see that in him. Whilst I take on board Al's post above regarding the benefits his tactical positioning brings, I will admit to longing to see him played more centrally as part of a trio. In that position and with the confidence that experience brings I think we could have a real player on our hands.

[petecolonia]

have a word, few poor crosses but who gives a shit when he's practically the only one with the eye for an incisive pass! should've had the bottle to shoot when moving into that space though!

[b_joseph]

Like others have said today and pretty much all season. He looks like a fish out of water playing in a midfield 4 on the right side...yeah, he is still tidy but it seems to find it hard to impact the game consistently, which is understandable for someone who is an out and out central mid player.

I'm not entirely sure what Kenny is trying to do with him. Maybe the goal is to just get games under his belt because every minute he plays should aid his development but even though most of us can see that he is really talented, I cant help but think that this season has just passed him by, for the most part.
I think when you saw his reaction to coming off, you saw a little frustration but also understanding that things just arent quite going for him this year and he is one of those players that is a likely candidate for the 1st substitution of every match. Not to knock him but certain players find themselves in that position with their clubs...for example, Ozil has that role with Real alot of the time.


I need to see him in a team that has both Lucas and Stevie in it, for an extended period of time. A central 3 with those guys should suit him and I'm hoping that is how Kenny will see it in the long run.

[PeterGriffin]

I like Hendo but i think he is poor out wide right. His best moments always come from when he is in the middle of the park.

Like last night where he played in a couple of clever through balls.

He will be a class player for us in time. Look at how Lucas turned out. Hendo needs to show the same mentality as him.

[redprodigal]

He has shown some real promise and it amazes me that people don't see that in him.

I think people do see some real promise in him. It's just that 10% of the game showing promise, 50% of the game being average and 40% of the game being poor is not good enough. He has to turn that around and hopefully he will. Until then it's no good bulling his performances up.
He desperately needs to get his confidence up and I can't wait for him to be given a run in the centre. The longer he's played on the right the less confident he's going to be because it's plain to see that is not his position.

[edmundljs]

Played well, full of energy but just thought that he has to be more precise with his simple passes. Making his teammates run a bit when passes gets slightly wayward.

[davidg]

grew into the game and will grow into a very good central midfield player if allowed to.

[Sangria]

His genius I can tolerate but oft one must find his englishness distasteful - I hope young Jordan grows to emulate the former while cleansing himself of the latter.

He can be tactically indisciplined and impatient. Those parts of his game that can drive him to make those mistakes come from his typically English view of football. You could easily argue that this typically English view also gives him the extra drive and directness, but then the perfect player would be a blend of the English style and the continental style, favouring each at exactly the right time. Doesn't exist of course, but Benitez brought some of that to Gerrard's game. The other weak part of his game is the fact that he's a genius, and can't understand why mortals can't do the things he can do. The same was said of Hoddle the manager, and how he used to demoralise his players when he got exasperated with their inepititude, and went and demonstrated what he expected them to do, forgetting that not everyone is like him. He's got a bit better in that with age, and he's no longer quite as impatient as geniuses can often be.

[lorenzo23]

Wish we'd play him in the middle - a 3 with Spearing and Gerrard.

Think this would help Andy as well letting him play more central in and around the 18 yard box most of game, with two wing-forwards either side of him.

[Grobbelrevell]

I think people do see some real promise in him. It's just that 10% of the game showing promise, 50% of the game being average and 40% of the game being poor is not good enough. He has to turn that around and hopefully he will. Until then it's no good bulling his performances up.
He desperately needs to get his confidence up and I can't wait for him to be given a run in the centre. The longer he's played on the right the less confident he's going to be because it's plain to see that is not his position.

I think you answer your own question there in some ways in the fact that he isn't playing in his natural position and that, ultimately, comes down to the management and whether or not they're deploying him correctly. Like you i'd like to see him given a run in the centre as part of a trio. In addition to that, confidence and assurance comes with experience and lets not forget, he's a twenty year old lad still learning his trade as well as simultaneously adapting to a new club, in a new city, with expectations a level above what he's been used to. Whether or not people want to accept that millionnaire footballers need time to adapt to new circumstances in the same way as the rest of us or not, they do and that's the reality. The flashes of quality and the consistant effort and desire combined are enough to reassure me that he has what it takes, anyway.

[eirwen]

I'm not sure why Kenny keeps playing him on the right. Everyone can see he does not play well there. Is the goal just to force him to adapt? I know young players need to try to be more versatile, but it's not exactly the right place to experiment in the first team.

[leivapool]

Next Season:

Lucas and Hendo in the middle? - yes please 

[Quintet]

I think we are playing him too much too soon. Also don't understand kenny keep playing him on the right, when it's so obvious he's not great out there. But saying that much rather Hendo playing than Adam

[davidg]

His crossing was awful. His through-balls were superb.

And that's why he should be playing centre mid and not out wide.

He's a good ball recycler with an eye for a pass when he has options. Playing him out wide limits his game and exposes his flaws.

[myrlas]

Sky ratings from yesterday:

Henderson - 7
Carroll - 6

[John C]

He's a curious mix and I can see how he divides opinion. His best work is the instinctive stuff - the first time passed, the early through balls, the clever runs. He still seems to lack confidence at times (like when he had that chance to shoot in the first half) but that will come with time. He then mixes some of these moments of high class with some very sloppy patches too. Definitely worth perservering with, I agree with the comment above that a 3 of him, Lucas and Gerrard could be our strongest (possibly Spearing in for him in some games).

Sensible post mate, I thought he was ok last night after a poor start and perhaps that's part of the problem - people lock in to short spells of something good or bad about a player and forget the rest.

In general I still want to feel some of yorkykopite's confidence in him as I'm not getting there yet, But hey take no fucking notice of me, I was a massive Lucas doubter.

[mat106]

I was a massive Lucas doubter.

A lot of us were mate. I too am hoping he goes the same way as Lucas has. He's young and he has skills as well as pace. How he's being perceived has been wholly tainted by that over-inflated price tag. Would the same criticisms be levelled had we got him at say 9mil? Whatever the case I hope he comes good.

[Smellytrabs]

Sky ratings from yesterday:

Henderson - 7
Carroll - 6

Carroll had a much better game than Henderson. I think that reflects the fact that one player is a media darling, and the other they take great joy in portraying as a failure. Sky are nobs.

[myrlas]

In my opinion, apart from one brilliant pass to Suarez, Henderson had a poor game. Started shocking, and his confidence went down the drains. Even his "safety" passes back to the goalkeeper weren't up to his normal standards.

Showed almost everything he is being criticised for during his 70 minutes. Also showed with his pass what he is capable of.

Should be gelled in, and not be a starter at the moment.

PS! Is it me, or has Henderson almost stopped making runs into the box. Since that is one of the things we are poorest at, I thought he brought something fresh to the plate when he first arrived. He made deep runs into the box. Now I don't see that so much anymore. A shame.

[myrlas]

Carroll had a much better game than Henderson. I think that reflects the fact that one player is a media darling, and the other they take great joy in portraying as a failure. Sky are nobs.

What do you mean. That Chris Eagles didn't deserve his 10 rating when Bolton played us? That Sky's ratings aren't based on actual performances, but on performances compared to the presumption of a player?

[Aristotle]

The game mate. The game.

If you seriously thought Henderson had a good game then your standards have dropped.

So let me get this right. I want to just get your opinion on something. Because you, using your unbiased and empirical way of looking at things, are by far best cut out do so.


Let's take individual players. For hyopthetical reasons let's leave their names out of this and call them Subject 14 and Subject 26 respectively. Subject 26 has a sub-par game, his passing is off, his positioning not the best he's ever had but he is responsible for bringing 2 goal scoring opportunities. Subject 26 then has a good game, the things he does less than amazing are "not his job" and all is forgiven because his creativity offers something to the team. Then, using impartial methods, we observe Subject 14. Subject 14 has a sub-par game, his passing is off, his positioning not the best he's ever had but he is responsible for creating 2 goal scoring chances, one of which if not passed to a fullback would contributed a direct assist, the other setting up our most dangerous and creative player inside the opposition box, before creating space for said player and allowing the Subject's captain to score a goal. Using your, expertly unbiased way of rating players, we conclude that subject 14 had a poor game, his faults are not forgiven and do not outweigh his direct contribution to our attack, his value is then brought into the equation and as a result of having a sub-par game on an evenly frequent interval thinking highly of Subject 14 thusly means that ones standards have dropped. In a manner not too dissimilar to a Subject 21, who not too long ago underwent similar, impartial scrutiny from an expert such as yourself.

If only I'd seen it sooner! I've been wasting my time all these months

[sattapaartridge]

I thought he was poor yesterday to be fair, but his defensive work was good, his passing was decent. I agree that he is playing with a lack of confidence, but I think we have many players doing this, mainly the geordies.

Again, like others here, I'd love to have seen him in a three in the middle with license to run forward. I thought he was too restricted to the right. 2nd half though, Kelly came into his element and we looked stronger down the right.

Suarez is somewhat of a McManaman enigma, he runs where he wants, you dont know where he is going to end up. Because he does that, he is not going to stay on the right, or the left, so the rest of the players have to be more disciplined in their area's. It could be helped by a more mobile forward causing havoc upfront, you know, one that can finish, with pace.

So in terms of discipline, I thought Henderson did very well, but also moved central when Kelly was marauding down the right.

[danwarb]

Sky ratings from yesterday:

Henderson - 7
Carroll - 6

I find these robot ratings are much closer to the mark:

Henderson - 6.71
Carroll - 7.42

http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/506722/LiveStatistics/England-Premier-League-2011-2012-Liverpool-Everton

[AndyC7]

I was in the Lower Cent yesterday and was very close to Henderson for the first 45 mins. His first touch in the game went totally wrong and his head went. Playing him wide is crushing his confidence. The boy can play football, pass and move - but not from a wide area. The times he drifted in-field last night he proved he can play a killer pass.

Once his head had gone though, he was hiding and at times even holding his back as if injured (??), it's all confidence with him and I believe he needs to be taken out of the firing line against Stoke and be given a rest. Then play him in the middle where he can play his natural game v Wigan.

My one gripe with the guy is he needs to put himself about and make some tackles, he's a big guy but is so shy to tackle for a midfielder it drives me mad. 

Finally, I'm sure he'll be a player for us........... if he has  the appetite!!!!

[AriGold]

He's 21. He'll be a brilliant player. I just wish the majority of our fans could see his potential and not write him off at such a young age.

[Uhoh AureliOs]

PS! Is it me, or has Henderson almost stopped making runs into the box. Since that is one of the things we are poorest at, I thought he brought something fresh to the plate when he first arrived. He made deep runs into the box. Now I don't see that so much anymore. A shame.

Like the run into the box where Adam should have passed to him vs Sunderland? Or like when his throughball went to Suarez (for the second goal) and he busted a gut to get to the near post? Or when his shot was blocked by Distin early on?

He's still making them.

[Sangria]

Sensible post mate, I thought he was ok last night after a poor start and perhaps that's part of the problem - people lock in to short spells of something good or bad about a player and forget the rest.

In general I still want to feel some of yorkykopite's confidence in him as I'm not getting there yet, But hey take no fucking notice of me, I was a massive Lucas doubter.

Henderson has the raw ingredients for the team we should be becoming. If he appears to offer little but the obvious right now, also note what I said about another player. Pass and move players look better as individuals the more of them there are in the team. That's why I didn't want Adam in the team, because he's definitely not in that mould. Fill the team with players like the departed or departing Meireles, Maxi and Aurelio, and the individual pass and move components will look better as individuals. And because of the nature of the game, once you get past a certain concentration, you can swap in and swap out individual players and it wouldn't much affect the overall style of the team, and the team can also pull this way and that within a game. As shown by his more detailed explanation, Shankly's quote about football being a simple game is about this. If you play in a certain way, football is indeed a simple game, about the giving and taking of passes. But you need the raw material to be able to play that simple game well, with the promise of a virtually endless ceiling. I think Henderson has the raw material.

[The G in Gerrard]

He's 21. He'll be a brilliant player. I just wish the majority of our fans could see his potential and not write him off at such a young age.

He's not a right winger or sided player, play him centrally where he found himself on a number of times and see the good work he does. Couple of one touch stuff with Suarez and other opportunities led to good chances for us. He wasn't a problem last night, infact without Lucas, a midfield three of Spearing, Gerrard and Henderson adds movement and mobility which is something we sorely lack.

The only criticism any player should have from yesterday is Downing imo.

[RAOTW]

Henderson wasn't poor last night, He had a good game mainly due to the cover he offered on the right allowing the time and space for Kelly to bomb forward. Baines and Pienaar are a handful for most Premiership teams when they link up together but they were pretty much shutdown last night due to good defensive work from both lads.

You really did watch a different game to me, we have signed a poor average young player and been ripped of big time, smell the coffee lads. Wrapping him up in a romance that he played well and will play much better in the middle he cant tackle, beat a man and is a big fuckin jessie! He needs to grow a pair, anyone would think this was his first season in the premiership!!! Get rid in the summer a poor signing regardless of age. I guarantee you will be banging on about him in 2 years still hoping and praying. No better than Nunez?? bring maxi back in the team

[John C]

Henderson has the raw ingredients for the team we should be becoming. If he appears to offer little but the obvious right now, also note what I said about another player. Pass and move players look better as individuals the more of them there are in the team. That's why I didn't want Adam in the team, because he's definitely not in that mould. Fill the team with players like the departed or departing Meireles, Maxi and Aurelio, and the individual pass and move components will look better as individuals. And because of the nature of the game, once you get past a certain concentration, you can swap in and swap out individual players and it wouldn't much affect the overall style of the team, and the team can also pull this way and that within a game. As shown by his more detailed explanation, Shankly's quote about football being a simple game is about this. If you play in a certain way, football is indeed a simple game, about the giving and taking of passes. But you need the raw material to be able to play that simple game well, with the promise of a virtually endless ceiling. I think Henderson has the raw material.

For a moment you made me feel the future was going to be so bright 

[Camarero25]

He had a bad first 20 minutes and the crowd was starting to get on his back a bit. What impressed me though, is he didn't shy away from the ball like he has at certain times this season, he got involved and played a part in our first two goals. He was much improved after those first 20 minutes and it was great to see.

I really, really like Henderson, his attitude is top notch.

[Sangria]

For a moment you made me feel the future was going to be so bright 

The future had to be faced at some point anyway, so I have no arguments about replacing those 3 players. The problem is I think we've gone in the wrong direction with some of their replacements, but hopefully that can be rectified. But when the Lucas cultists talk positively about Henderson, that is what they're talking about. Henderson is the right kind of player we should be looking for. The question isn't what does he do, but how do we get more of these players.

[Cpt_Reina]

No vendetta - Hendo was poor last night.

I shouldn't bother seeing as you simply dont like the lad but

There are two perfect examples of the player Henderson is and why a lot of his work goes unnoticed in Gerrards first two goals.

Look back at them and what you'll see in the build up is some excellent movement off the ball from Henderson.

http://www.golofan.com/liverpool-vs-everton-3-0-al/12085/

First one, he comes in field drags Baines with him, plays a 1 touch 1-2 with Suarez who then plays in Kelly who's made a run in to the space created by Henderson's movement off the flank (Henderson continued his run in to the box to provide an option).

For the second he picks up the ball on the half way line, drives forward 20 yards before playing Suarez in behind the defence. He then makes another 20 yard dash (showing no small amount of pace) towards the front post dragging the CBs deep towards the goal and creating a little pocket of space which Gerrard wanders in to and helps himself to the second of the night.

That's the sort of stuff people dont see.

And that's why Henderson is vastly underrated.

[careful on these streets, I've heard stories]

Carroll had a much better game than Henderson.

I didn't think so, but that's for another thread. What I would say is I'd like to see Carroll and Suarez spend less time on the floor

[redprodigal]

I shouldn't bother seeing as you simply dont like the lad but

Don't think those 2 examples go unseen. It's just that they are vastly outnumbered by poor play. He's got to do more of that and cut out the bad parts to his game.

[Cpt_Reina]

Don't think those 2 examples go unseen. It's just that they are vastly outnumbered by poor play. He's got to do more of that and cut out the bad parts to his game.

He had a mixed bag, but he was by no means poor.

Those are two telling contributions.