Topic: Luis Suarez - FA guilty charge and LFC Statement (*)

[redtel]

You're spot on. We've embarrassed ourselves big time on this issue. I couldn't believe the club printed t-shirt. When you think what that gesture is usually reserved for, global emergencies, serious tragedies, the urgent support of charities and for and to go ahead with the idea. Those people clearly didn't think it through. Face the music and accept the punishment so we can move on. Only more damage is being caused as far as I'm concerned. "Fans" are too willing to accept the stance the club has choosen rather than make their own minds up. This isn't not a case of I disagree with a formation or team sheet it's a something you should be forming your own opinion of.

What's this going backwards under Dalglish?

Got to be an invader. Somebody take the necessary action please.

[vivabobbygraham]

You're spot on. We've embarrassed ourselves big time on this issue. I couldn't believe the club printed t-shirt. When you think what that gesture is usually reserved for, global emergencies, serious tragedies, the urgent support of charities and for and to go ahead with the idea. Those people clearly didn't think it through. Face the music and accept the punishment so we can move on. Only more damage is being caused as far as I'm concerned. "Fans" are too willing to accept the stance the club has choosen rather than make their own minds up. This isn't not a case of I disagree with a formation or team sheet it's a something you should be forming your own opinion of.

In this age of social networking, interactive media, spin and the like, a T shirt logo or advertisement is an instant way of registering a pro or anti stance on anything providing you have the media access to promote it. You choose to use emotive causes to register your disgust at the way the players went about their protest as if Tshirt advertising was only used for the causes you mention.

I like ben and jerry's ice cream, I see their tshirts on most shopping arcades. I see vodaphone. o2, orange use tshirts to advertise their wares. Are they charitable orgaanisations? I feel like I'm flogging a dead horse here with you but will give you the benefit of a response to my post. What are you really saying? Do you think we should roll over and take this obvious miscarriage of justice up the rectum?

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Ugh. My point is the inability for the wider press to even agree on what word has been said by Luis should be reason enough for fans to pause and stop with the speculation and the South American history lessons and wait til there's more transparency. You've pretty much decided its either 'negro' or 'negrito' and are running with it so good luck with that.

I haven't decided it's anything. I've read the obviously leaked news reports like everyone else in the country.

Is what you are saying is the club and fans should just sell Suarez, brand him a racist and 'get on with it'?

I believe from what I have read that the club aren't mental. They have reacted as they have for a very good reason. I have also read a lot of shite from reporters from various sources.

We not allowed to debate, discuss and try and learn something then? You saying we should all just sit back and take it and let the wankers say what the fuck they want with absolutely no comeback? Is that what you are after?

[koppitekop11]

Can I just say thanks to Andy. I've been popping in and out of here all day and on almost every page he's been there trying to educate fuckwits like Third Account (even if they are trolling). Think you should take a time out though mate, seems they will never learn.

My suggestion is go and have a bevvy and enjoy a bit of the Grinch

[Bernard Shakey]

Have you read said persons personal text?

Nope.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Can I just say thanks to Andy. I've been popping in and out of here all day and on almost every page he's been there trying to educate fuckwits like Third Account (even if they are trolling). Think you should take a time out though mate, seems they will never learn.

My suggestion is go and have a bevvy and enjoy a bit of the Grinch

Watching a Christmas film with the missus once I've finished my steak

I'll leave them to it in a while

[Dr Manhattan]

If I had nothing else to do but troll a rival forum on Christmas Eve trying to wind everyone up I think I'd end it all.

[Johnnyboy1973]

Nope.

You should cos clearly they're a prick.

[stevied]

if the club had said nothing, not printed the shirts , if the players hadnt made the statement then the whole of the country and media gobshites would have said GUILTY as charged, we have done all the above and we are wrong for doing it, pull the wagons and trailers in the circle get in the middle if you want to stay and fight if you dont fuck off over the hills and faraway

[Tony Clueless]

You sure about that?

Let me get this straight - you are honestly saying that people in Spain speak the same Spanish as people in South America?

Obviously there are variaitions etc, but the basics are the same.  My milkman was part uruguayan/part spanish etc

[Lenin.]

Someone posted something he disagrees with and therefore that person must be a troll.

I think you'll find I have been correct on every occasion. 3 times today in this thread alone, up to yet.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Obviously there are variaitions etc, but the basics are the same.  My milkman was part uruguayan/part spanish etc

It's the variations that are important here.

Even between US and UK English there are statements that could be rude in one and nothing in the other.

[vivabobbygraham]

The last part of your post makes no difference at all, race relations aren't all hunky dory in many parts of South America as well, and in place like Argentina with huge European populations, early black settlers were victimized as well.

I would love to be enlightened over this. Please tell me more about this. I know Argentina had a Britrish influence for many a year. Did that have any significance into what you are saying?

[Lenin.]

If I had nothing else to do but troll a rival forum on Christmas Eve trying to wind everyone up I think I'd end it all.

  at your new name.

[Bernard Shakey]

I haven't decided it's anything. I've read the obviously leaked news reports like everyone else in the country.

Is what you are saying is the club and fans should just sell Suarez, brand him a racist and 'get on with it'?

I believe from what I have read that the club aren't mental. They have reacted as they have for a very good reason. I have also read a lot of shite from reporters from various sources.

We not allowed to debate, discuss and try and learn something then? You saying we should all just sit back and take it and let the wankers say what the fuck they want with absolutely no comeback? Is that what you are after?

Of course I dont want him sold or labelled a racist. I really hope he did say 'negrito' and the cultural misunderstanding defence enables him to be exonerated. Problem is (and I'll say it again) is we just aren't sure what he has said but some people going to huge lengths talking about stuff that in the end will have little bearing when the official report comes out. I really really hope the report vindicates the club's actions. I trust they know EXACTLY what was said.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I would love to be enlightened over this. Please tell me more about this. I know Argentina had a Britrish influence for many a year. Did that have any significance into what you are saying?

Their football team seem happy to use 'Negro' and 'Negrito' as non racial nicknames and seem happy enough to all pose in front of a flag that says "Negro"

[Eeyore]

Ugh. My point is the inability for the wider press to even agree on what word has been said by Luis should be reason enough for fans to pause and stop with the speculation and the South American history lessons and wait til there's more transparency. You've pretty much decided its either 'negro' or 'negrito' and are running with it so good luck with that.

Or we could trust the integrity of Liverpool Football Club and especially Kenny Dalglish. There are two possible reasons why we have backed Suarez.

1. We are so tribal that we will defend the indefensible.

2. The Club and especially Kenny have the moral courage and fortitude to stand up and protest against what they see as completely and utterly unjust.

For me it quite simply doesn't matter what was actually said because even though the press, the moral crusaders and the people who wish to take the moral highground have not seen the evidence LFC and Kenny Dalglish have and I trust their integrity implicitly.

Anyone who saw the way Kenny reacted in the aftermath of Hillsborough should know that the man is an absolute colossus whose integrity and willingness to do the right thing is for me beyond question.

If Suarez was a racist and had made racist comments towards Evra his feet wouldn't of touched if anyone doesn't believe that then i think they should be supporting a different side.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Of course I dont want him sold or labelled a racist. I really hope he did say 'negrito' and the cultural misunderstanding defence enables him to be exonerated. Problem is (and I'll say it again) is we just aren't sure what he has said but some people going to huge lengths talking about stuff that in the end will have little bearing when the official report comes out. I really really hope the report vindicates the club's actions. I trust they know EXACTLY what was said.

How would they not know what was said? Their lawyers were there during Suarez's statement.

[Upinsmoke]

Everyone that has had a pop at liverpool over the suarez incident has always finished with "they (liverpool) haven't even seen the report yet, so how can they support luis, or the t-shirt etc etc" well neither have they seen a report and the findings in the suarez/evra case, its ridiculous, its like they think they can comment without seeing a report and brand him a racist (which the FA haven't charged him for, they didnt say "luis is a racist, 8 match ban") yet he's getting lablled as one by people who haven't seen the report either, its fucking disgusting. If this gets taken as far as it can and liverpool and luis still dont get anywhere i'm giving the fuck up, because it is in no way absolutely fucking fair.

I hope something really bad happens to everyone concerned, the 3 men on the panel, the QC, fergie, james lawton, mcgrath and everybody who has had there say without the findings being released, disgusting fucking human beings.

[Third Account]

I think you'll find I have been correct on every occasion. 3 times today in this thread alone, up to yet.

You're dead wrong. I don't get told what to think. You should try it some time. Another at odds I opinion I'll continue to hold is that Robbie Fowler is an immature homophobic dickhead ever since his treatment of Graeme Le Saux. The fact there's still no openly gay footballers says were in the dark ages more than the occasional case of racism.

[Upinsmoke]

You're dead wrong. I don't get told what to think. You should try it some time. Another at odds I opinion I'll continue to hold is that Robbie Fowler is an immature homophobic dickhead ever since his treatment of Graeme Le Saux. The fact there's still no openly gay footballers says were in the dark ages more than the occasional case of racism.

Go away dickhead.

[hedger]

You're dead wrong. I don't get told what to think. You should try it some time. Another at odds I opinion I'll continue to hold is that Robbie Fowler is an immature homophobic dickhead ever since his treatment of Graeme Le Saux. The fact there's still no openly gay footballers says were in the dark ages more than the occasional case of racism.

Another group who just love to be insulted but lets stick to the topic

[TomDcs]

You're dead wrong. I don't get told what to think. You should try it some time. Another at odds I opinion I'll continue to hold is that Robbie Fowler is an immature homophobic dickhead ever since his treatment of Graeme Le Saux. The fact there's still no openly gay footballers says were in the dark ages more than the occasional case of racism.

5 times, mate.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Dont think Suarez said that.

Unless you have a link, I think you're misrememebring.

He said he called Evra what his teammates did.

Some claims were made that he is known as "negrito" amongst teammates  due to his diminutive stature (it's a south asian people known for being vertically challenged, I believe)

Likewise the Hernandez "negrito" quotes (about his former teammate) were found.

I remember reading the "I called him exactly the same thing as his teammates"

I thought that 'Negrito' was in the same article?

[Redsnappa]

You're dead wrong. I don't get told what to think. You should try it some time. Another at odds I opinion I'll continue to hold is that Robbie Fowler is an immature homophobic dickhead ever since his treatment of Graeme Le Saux. The fact there's still no openly gay footballers says were in the dark ages more than the occasional case of racism.

Going for it in a big way until your ban aren't you?

I see the custom title has changed again. You must be having a scream over on ShiteCafe.....

[Dr Manhattan]

You're dead wrong. I don't get told what to think. You should try it some time. Another at odds I opinion I'll continue to hold is that Robbie Fowler is an immature homophobic dickhead ever since his treatment of Graeme Le Saux. The fact there's still no openly gay footballers says were in the dark ages more than the occasional case of racism.

What is the fucking point of people like you? Hold the opinion, that's fine. Blab about it on here to get a rise is twattish in the extreme.

[RedBo]

Don't know if this has been posted but it's a pretty good article and a couple of decent replys: 
http://www.anfieldroad.com/news/lfc/2011-12-24/5563/ignorance-is-all-too-common.html/

[Andy @ Allerton!]

What is the fucking point of people like you? Hold the opinion, that's fine. Blab about it on here to get a rise is twattish in the extreme.

Don't waste your time. He's another outed Manc.

[Dr Manhattan]

Don't waste your time. He's another outed Manc.

Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. I just don't get the fucking point in trying to start arguments with people on Christmas fucking Eve. I mean, you have to have one utterly pitiful life, don't you?

[Lenin.]

You're dead wrong. I don't get told what to think. You should try it some time. Another at odds I opinion I'll continue to hold is that Robbie Fowler is an immature homophobic dickhead ever since his treatment of Graeme Le Saux. The fact there's still no openly gay footballers says were in the dark ages more than the occasional case of racism.

Lolz. Anything else you would like to get off your chest?

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Right I'm offski.

Merry Christmas to everyone - especially those jolly little souls at Red Cafe glued to this thread.

[vivabobbygraham]

I dont know how trustworthy Canal+ claims were.  But, based on those, most people assumed that Evras claim was that Suarez used the n word (ie the 6 letter English word, starting with n, ending with r, and having double g in the middle) 10 times.

LFC (perhaps too hastily for all I know) implied there was no truth at all in that, and called for Evra to be punished.

The supposedly direct quotes from Evra are still the closest that we have to an on the record quote from any of the parties about what was said.

I do not like at all the supposed quotes from Suarez saying that he called Evra what his team mates called him.  But they're the only other on the record comment from a participant (and, of course, we dont know what they lose in translation, and so on).

The discussion about "negrito" appeared a few weeks ago, and we have no evidence that Suarez or LFC put that out there.

The discussion that the word was "negro" not "negrito" seems to have come from Henry Winter (possible LFC links) and Daniel Taylor (out and out Man U reporter, who presumably has no LFC connections at all).

If (and I say IF) MU wanted to put their side of the story into the public domain, then you can understand why they would brief Winter and Taylor.  Taylor who can be relied on to report with absolutely no pro LFC angle.  But Winter who is a well-known name who gives the story more credibility; better yet, his LFC links make it difficult to allege that the leaks are from the MU side.

I aint saying MU leaked.  I am just saying that I find it easier to think of a reason for MU leaking to Winter (as well as Taylor) than I do to think of a reason that LFC would leak to Taylor (as well as Winter).  I also find it hard to believe that Taylor would risk being frozen out of Old Trafford by writing stories which had been drip fed to him by LFC on this particular, highly polarised, issue.


Against all that, the LFC official statement says that Suarez was convicted on Evra's word alone, and implies there was no corroborating evidence.


So until I see an official report saying differently, I am not assuming that Suarez admits any particular word. 

But it seems likely (based on LFC's comments) that whatever word Suarez admitted, the commission found him guilty of something else.

Know what you are saying Jack. Having followed the whole claim and counter claim over this I make a couple of observations. The first, comically, I remember Taylor, in one of his many articles on this matter(well briefed by OT) pontificating that United had kept their counsel over this as directed by the FA, but were, 'privately' furious at Liverpool's profligacy when briefing journo's over the matter. Foot in mouth there!!!

Secondly and more importantly perhaps, the FA must have briefed their London mates, off the record over this, hence the outcry. They could not fail to know that Liverpool were going to kick off over this given the flimsiest of evidence available. Put it out there, see how it flies, like sticking a wet finger in the air to see which way the wind blows.

There is something rotten in the state of Denmark. Maybe It's about time the bins were opened and let's have a look inside. As a club we are still fit and trim from previous pugilistic encounters. We are at our fighting weight with little excess fat like some fighters. Let's have a go I say even if we are fighting above our weight. We've always punched above it anyway.

[Third Account]

Another group who just love to be insulted but lets stick to the topic

Ten years from now I can imagine a player using the definition of "Queer" that stood in the 1930's as their defence for using it.

[Aido LFC]

Hahaha a manc on a Liverpool forum on Christmas eve that is fucking hilarious.

[tea_tree]

You're spot on. We've embarrassed ourselves big time on this issue. I couldn't believe the club printed t-shirt. When you think what that gesture is usually reserved for, global emergencies, serious tragedies, the urgent support of charities and for and to go ahead with the idea. Those people clearly didn't think it through. Face the music and accept the punishment so we can move on. Only more damage is being caused as far as I'm concerned. "Fans" are too willing to accept the stance the club has choosen rather than make their own minds up. This isn't not a case of I disagree with a formation or team sheet it's a something you should be forming your own opinion of.

This is the most idiotic thing I've read about this issue. It's a serious matter and drastic situations call for drastic measures

[Cadno]

Right I'm offski.

Merry Christmas to everyone - especially those jolly little souls at Red Cafe glued to this thread.

Thats the spirit, thinking of the less fortunate at Christmas. 

Merry Christmas to all

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Don't know if this has been posted but it's a pretty good article and a couple of decent replys: 
http://www.anfieldroad.com/news/lfc/2011-12-24/5563/ignorance-is-all-too-common.html/

love the bit about pikeys

[Lenin.]

Right I'm offski.

Merry Christmas to everyone - especially those jolly little souls at Red Cafe glued to this thread.

Ha ha. The owner of Redcafe must love that Rawk thread. 750,000 views in 6MONTHS! Advertising GOLD!

[Cadno]

Ten years from now I can imagine a player using the definition of "Queer" that stood in the 1930's as their defence for using it.

Or 2 months from now a player a player being banned for the season for saying "thats a queer decision ref"

[Lenin.]

Ten years from now I can imagine a player using the definition of "Queer" that stood in the 1930's as their defence for using it.

Your'e getting your arse handed to you here. I think the term is pwned?