Topic: Luis Suarez - FA guilty charge and LFC Statement (*)

[joey55]

I couldn't give a fuck about the ban or the fine. This is the entire career of a player who will be labelled a racist for the rest of his life for making a non-racist statement. His own grandfather is black.

The whole thing is utter shite.

I don't think Suarez is really the main issue now amongst football fans, Liverpool FC are. The LFC reaction is what has caused all the stir and that wont be forgotten for a very long time. This thread (rawk in the most recognised source of Liverpool fan opinions), Dalglish's comments and the Twitter abuse are being talked about amongst non Liverpool fans, more than Suarez himself. Many of those who wanted Suarez banned would acknowledge it isn't a clear case of racism. Many think 8 games is harsh (based on the little we've heard of what happened.) But virtually no one has any time for the way Liverpool responded. It's no longer a discussion simply about the incident itself and whether Suarez got fair or harsh treatment. If when we learn more about what went on, Suarez is still seen as a racist, then it wont simply be a case of Suarez being tainted by this in the future, but the LFC itself.  I'm not saying if that is right or wrong, but just that it will happen and already is.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I don't think Suarez is really the main issue now amongst football fans, Liverpool FC are. The LFC reaction is what has caused all the stir and that wont be forgotten for a very long time. This thread (rawk in the most recognised source of Liverpool fan opinions), Dalglish's comments and the Twitter abuse are being talked about amongst non Liverpool fans, more than Suarez himself. Many of those who wanted Suarez banned would acknowledge it isn't a clear case of racism. Many think 8 games is harsh (based on the little we've heard of what happened.) But virtually no one has any time for the way Liverpool responded. It's no longer a discussion simply about the incident itself and whether Suarez got fair or harsh treatment. If when we learn more about what went on, Suarez is still seen as a racist, then it wont simply be a case of Suarez being tainted by this in the future, but the LFC itself.  I'm not saying if that is right or wrong, but just that it will happen and already is.

Bollocks. I heard the Wigan fans singing "Racist.. Racist.."

I've seen the Manchester United fans on a video with "Racist.. Racist.."

You are talking bollocks. This is all about Suarez and his victimisation as an 'easy target Johnny Foreigner' with the Xenophobic English FA and Xenophobic English fans.

And if they don't like LFC's reactions then they can go and fuck themselves.

None of the Manchester United fans have the bottle to even discuss this particular issue with me because they know the whole thing is a bag of shite. Read what their own fans are saying about Evra on the fucking Red Cafe website.

[Juan Loco]

Ever the diplomat Andy.

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

I don't think Suarez is really the main issue now amongst football fans, Liverpool FC are. The LFC reaction is what has caused all the stir and that wont be forgotten for a very long time. This thread (rawk in the most recognised source of Liverpool fan opinions), Dalglish's comments and the Twitter abuse are being talked about amongst non Liverpool fans, more than Suarez himself. Many of those who wanted Suarez banned would acknowledge it isn't a clear case of racism. Many think 8 games is harsh (based on the little we've heard of what happened.) But virtually no one has any time for the way Liverpool responded. It's no longer a discussion simply about the incident itself and whether Suarez got fair or harsh treatment. If when we learn more about what went on, Suarez is still seen as a racist, then it wont simply be a case of Suarez being tainted by this in the future, but the LFC itself.  I'm not saying if that is right or wrong, but just that it will happen and already is.

That is utter fucking nonsense in all fairness mate.  Utter fucking bollocks.  Did you go to Wigan?  Did you hear the abuse he got?

Your talking absolute shite - but have a marvellous Christmas anyway

[redrockydennis]

“When you assume you make an ass of u and me"


Sums up this entire clusterfuck

[Dr Manhattan]

That is utter fucking nonsense in all fairness mate.  Utter fucking bollocks.  Did you go to Wigan?  Did you hear the abuse he got?

Your talking absolute shite - but have a marvellous Christmas anyway

Which is strange, because his posts always have a touch of quality and balance to them.

[joey55]

The Wigan game was days ago. Much of the Liverpool reaction, including this thread has happened since. I'm not discussing whether it is right or wrong, but much of the current talk is concerned with the LFC reaction.

[moloch]

Ever the diplomat Andy.

but right on the money.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

The Wigan game was days ago. Much of the Liverpool reaction, including this thread has happened since. I'm not discussing whether it is right or wrong, but much of the current talk is concerned with the LFC reaction.

Do you think the Blackburn fans won't be singing "Racist Racist"

Do you think the Manc fans won't be singing "Racist Racist"

Do you think the media sources around the country won't be digging more people up to call Suarez a Racist?

Do you think the media sources around the country won't be digging people off to slag off Liverpool Fans (I've already seen a few things that have said EVERY LIVERPOOL FAN IN THE WORLD IS A RACIST) and Liverpool FC (I've heard stuff saying LIVERPOOL FC SUPPORT RACISM)

Do you think that Liverpool FC would have come out with such a strongly worded uncompromising and backable statement as they did with no idea of what was going on?

There is a bigger picture here. If Dalglish has made this move after speaking to the player then fair enough we wait for the facts, but in the meantime I'll defend our player until it's been proven beyond any doubt that he has deliberately been racist intentionally and with malice. The fact that the FA said they didn't believe he was racist makes me think this won't happen. The fact Patrice Evra has said that he doesn't believe Suarerz is racist also makes me think this won't happen.

[Aido LFC]

That is utter fucking nonsense in all fairness mate.  Utter fucking bollocks.  Did you go to Wigan?  Did you hear the abuse he got?

Your talking absolute shite - but have a marvellous Christmas anyway

He's not even a Liverpool fan he supports Spurs.

[Bernard Shakey]

On the contrary it was known a week ago that the phrase could be 'negro' or 'negrito' - both racially neutral in Uruguay. If you'd bothered to read the thread then you'd have seen this - I've personally posted it about 20 fucking times.

Could be negro or negrito? What is it?

[Stretch Armstrong]

The Wigan game was days ago. Much of the Liverpool reaction, including this thread has happened since. I'm not discussing whether it is right or wrong, but much of the current talk is concerned with the LFC reaction.

Palm face, in all fairness this was happening as soon as the guilty verdict occurred and the club statement and players support statement. 

[Pistolero]

I don't think Suarez is really the main issue now amongst football fans, Liverpool FC are. The LFC reaction is what has caused all the stir and that wont be forgotten for a very long time. This thread (rawk in the most recognised source of Liverpool fan opinions), Dalglish's comments and the Twitter abuse are being talked about amongst non Liverpool fans, more than Suarez himself. Many of those who wanted Suarez banned would acknowledge it isn't a clear case of racism. Many think 8 games is harsh (based on the little we've heard of what happened.) But virtually no one has any time for the way Liverpool responded. It's no longer a discussion simply about the incident itself and whether Suarez got fair or harsh treatment. If when we learn more about what went on, Suarez is still seen as a racist, then it wont simply be a case of Suarez being tainted by this in the future, but the LFC itself.  I'm not saying if that is right or wrong, but just that it will happen and already is.

another poster who's been twatting the egg-nog too early?....mate - wake up....Liverpool are the subject of abuse the length and breadth of the country and we have been for a very long time...this incident is just another opportunity for backward c*nts to have another a go at us, the club and the City....the details/facts of the situation are irrelevant ...we cant win whatevr we do so FUCK them...zero tolerance...stick together and fuck the lot of them...and if its us against the fuckin world so be it. At the very least we'll have Uruguay on our side.

Happy Christmas.

Felice Navidad.

[TheTeflonJohn]

The Wigan game was days ago. Much of the Liverpool reaction, including this thread has happened since. I'm not discussing whether it is right or wrong, but much of the current talk is concerned with the LFC reaction.

Not interested fella. If the rest of Ingerlund doesn`t like LFC (well fuck me whats new there) then they can fuck right off is what I think.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Could be negro or negrito? What is it?

Does it matter?

They are the two words reported variously in the media. Given the sources I would hazard a guess that this information, like several things along the way, have been leaked to the media.

I have looked up both words, consulted my mother (Who is fluent in Spanish) and I have spoken to friends who are from South America.

If it were the one word or the other in Uruguay then it makes no odds. They are pretty much the same thing.

As has been said before, South America didn't go through the Slave trade the way Britain, Europe and the United States did which probably goes a long way to explain why over time these words are as relevant as saying "Table" "Chair" or "Book" while in England and other involved countries, because of the despicable slave trade this goes a long way to explain why the word needs to be dealt with sensitively and with forethought in order not to offend.

[gandalf50]

No, I live outside the patronising partisan bubble that others seem to be living in...

I've 'casually searched' and found no real mention of Sudaca.

All I know is that Luis Suarez said a word that Evra found objectionable and that Liverpool said Evra did the same.  I know nothing more than this for certain.  And neither do you.

Try this:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sudaca

[joey55]

Do you think the Blackburn fans won't be singing "Racist Racist"

Do you think the Manc fans won't be singing "Racist Racist"

Do you think the media sources around the country won't be digging more people up to call Suarez a Racist?

Do you think the media sources around the country won't be digging people off to slag off Liverpool Fans (I've already seen a few things that have said EVERY LIVERPOOL FAN IN THE WORLD IS A RACIST) and Liverpool FC (I've heard stuff saying LIVERPOOL FC SUPPORT RACISM)

Do you think that Liverpool FC would have come out with such a strongly worded uncompromising and backable statement as they did with no idea of what was going on?

There is a bigger picture here. If Dalglish has made this move after speaking to the player then fair enough we wait for the facts, but in the meantime I'll defend our player until it's been proven beyond any doubt that he has deliberately been racist intentionally and with malice. The fact that the FA said they didn't believe he was racist makes me think this won't happen. The fact Patrice Evra has said that he doesn't believe Suarerz is racist also makes me think this won't happen.

Nothing you've written changes anyhting I've said. I'm not giving an opinion on what happened or the rights and wrongs of things. I'm not suggesting they aren't going to target Suarez. I'm not discussing whether LFC's reaction was right or not. I'm pointing out that Suarez himself isn't what is causing the stir at the moment as much as the LFC (club and fans) reaction. You mention Redcafe, but they are mainly talking about RAWK responses. The press have been full of stories about LFC's club response. This isn't just about people passing judgement on Suarez anymore.

[vivabobbygraham]

I don't think Suarez is really the main issue now amongst football fans, Liverpool FC are. The LFC reaction is what has caused all the stir and that wont be forgotten for a very long time. This thread (rawk in the most recognised source of Liverpool fan opinions), Dalglish's comments and the Twitter abuse are being talked about amongst non Liverpool fans, more than Suarez himself. Many of those who wanted Suarez banned would acknowledge it isn't a clear case of racism. Many think 8 games is harsh (based on the little we've heard of what happened.) But virtually no one has any time for the way Liverpool responded. It's no longer a discussion simply about the incident itself and whether Suarez got fair or harsh treatment. If when we learn more about what went on, Suarez is still seen as a racist, then it wont simply be a case of Suarez being tainted by this in the future, but the LFC itself.  I'm not saying if that is right or wrong, but just that it will happen and already is.

The club's response is proportionate to me as they are the only ones privy to what was brought to the 'hearing' as evidence. Not being a club known for 'shooting from the hip', as a red you should acknowledge the club knows what it is talking about. If they have gone out on a limb over this, then believe it has legs. To even contemplate that Liverpool Football Club already had credibilty amongst the press and fans in general is naivety of the highest order. They use the 'club is tarnished' shizer just to validate a point. Yeah, right, Durham, Taylor, Kay, et al, are pro Liverpool and would have backed us if we had held our hands up and admitted Luis is a racist and Evra is the salt of the earth!!!!

Like all boils, once it is lanced puss comes out...

[Bernard Shakey]

I'll make my mind up once I have read the judgment. 

But (and I mean no offence) your comment is out of order.  You said that Suarez had admitted using a particular expression.  I simply pointed out that we do not know that he admitted that, and mentioned why the articles which say he admitted it appear inconsistent with LFC's official statement.

You implied that you felt that Suarez's admission meant we should be slower to defend him.  You cannot now just turn it round, and say that if there is no admission, then we dont know what he said, and shouldnt be defending him without knowing the facts.


That comes across as if you're saying the media reports are unreliable as far as what Evra said, but a couple of posts ago you were happy to believe the media reports about Suarez's admissions.

According to LFC, Suarez did not hear Evra's slur.  So whatever evidence was before the commission came from Evra only.  If he has admitted to "sudaca", then he should be punished.  If he hasnt admitted to that, then no-one else is accusing him.

Yes.  We need to see the full written reasons.  But it's the FA's fault, not LFC's nor RAWK's that these have not been published yet

You're right, I dont know, its just I'm getting posts aimed at me on other forums saying that Suarez made an admission of words and this seems to be taken as gospel now ...what I dont see is a consensus over exactly what he said. Best guess is something beginning with 'n' that isn't n*gger but after that not sure.

Best left agreeing that we should wait til this report is published..pity the FA didn't do it from the start..the club's strident defense of Luis would be even clearer.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Nothing you've written changes anyhting I've said. I'm not giving an opinion on what happened or the rights and wrongs of things. I'm not suggesting they aren't going to target Suarez. I'm not discussing whether LFC's reaction was right or not. I'm pointing out that Suarez himself isn't what is causing the stir at the moment as much as the LFC (club and fans) reaction. You mention Redcafe, but they are mainly talking about RAWK responses. The press have been full of stories about LFC's club response. This isn't just about people passing judgement on Suarez anymore.

If you haven't noticed Liverpool FC has been slagged off for donkeys years.

I'm not from Liverpool, but I live here now. I remember as a kid the stereotypes and portrayal of Liverpool from outside, then when I moved here I saw it from the inside.

If you think the country joining up to senselessly slag off a whole swathe of people for fuck all reason apart from "They want to" is anything new, then you must have been living in a fucking cave your entire life.

Just go down south, East or North to hear the varients of "Them fucking Scaaaarsarss.. Always fucking moaning" even fucking politicians representing the Country say fucking bollocks like "Self Pity City"

No wonder Liverpool wants little to do with the bellends in England.

[Lenin.]

another poster who's been twatting the egg-nog too early?....mate - wake up....Liverpool are the subject of abuse the length and breadth of the country and we have been for a very long time...this incident is just another opportunity for backward c*nts to have another a go at us, the club and the City....the details/facts of the situation are irrelevant ...we cant win whatevr we do so FUCK them...zero tolerance...stick together and fuck the lot of them...and if its us against the fuckin world so be it. At the very least we'll have Uruguay on our side.

Happy Christmas.

Felice Navidad.

The Spanish speaking world, methinks. Perhaps we could get special dispensation to fuck this league off  and join La Liga. Barca & Real Madrid wont know whats hit em! (Although they would both know what to expect  )

[Bernard Shakey]

Does it matter?

They are the two words reported variously in the media. Given the sources I would hazard a guess that this information, like several things along the way, have been leaked to the media.

I have looked up both words, consulted my mother (Who is fluent in Spanish) and I have spoken to friends who are from South America.

If it were the one word or the other in Uruguay then it makes no odds. They are pretty much the same thing.

As has been said before, South America didn't go through the Slave trade the way Britain, Europe and the United States did which probably goes a long way to explain why over time these words are as relevant as saying "Table" "Chair" or "Book" while in England and other involved countries, because of the despicable slave trade this goes a long way to explain why the word needs to be dealt with sensitively and with forethought in order not to offend.

Of course it matters, you can't start discussing what words mean in different cultures if you don't know exactly what these words are. It only looks like pre-emptive excuse making otherwise.

[Juan Loco]

To be fair fella, I don't think you're looking to wind people up here,  I just think that regardless of how the club are painted as a result of this, most people are pretty comfortable with the fact that the club isn't racist or whatever else, and that if any of those accusations were put up to any sort of scrutiny, they'd fall flat on their arse.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Of course it matters, you can't start discussing what words mean in different cultures if you don't know exactly what these words are. It only looks like pre-emptive excuse making otherwise.

Which part of they have been reported variously again and again in different places and from different media sources are you struggling with?

[Lenin.]

Nothing you've written changes anyhting I've said. I'm not giving an opinion on what happened or the rights and wrongs of things. I'm not suggesting they aren't going to target Suarez. I'm not discussing whether LFC's reaction was right or not. I'm pointing out that Suarez himself isn't what is causing the stir at the moment as much as the LFC (club and fans) reaction. You mention Redcafe, but they are mainly talking about RAWK responses. The press have been full of stories about LFC's club response. This isn't just about people passing judgement on Suarez anymore.

As a City & a Club, we've heard it all before, mate. We dont take it lying down. Ever.

[Zeb]

Just go down south, East or North to hear the varients of "Them fucking Scaaaarsarss.. Always fucking moaning" even fucking politicians representing the Country say fucking bollocks like "Self Pity City"

He's a Spurs fan. Not sure why he's in this thread, in this part of the board to be honest.

[Bernard Shakey]

Which part of they have been reported variously again and again in different places and from different media sources are you struggling with?

All of it. I want a report thats consistent.

[Third Account]

I don't think Suarez is really the main issue now amongst football fans, Liverpool FC are. The LFC reaction is what has caused all the stir and that wont be forgotten for a very long time. This thread (rawk in the most recognised source of Liverpool fan opinions), Dalglish's comments and the Twitter abuse are being talked about amongst non Liverpool fans, more than Suarez himself. Many of those who wanted Suarez banned would acknowledge it isn't a clear case of racism. Many think 8 games is harsh (based on the little we've heard of what happened.) But virtually no one has any time for the way Liverpool responded. It's no longer a discussion simply about the incident itself and whether Suarez got fair or harsh treatment. If when we learn more about what went on, Suarez is still seen as a racist, then it wont simply be a case of Suarez being tainted by this in the future, but the LFC itself.  I'm not saying if that is right or wrong, but just that it will happen and already is.

You're spot on. We've embarrassed ourselves big time on this issue. I couldn't believe the club printed t-shirt. When you think what that gesture is usually reserved for, global emergencies, serious tragedies, the urgent support of charities and for and to go ahead with the idea. Those people clearly didn't think it through. Face the music and accept the punishment so we can move on. Only more damage is being caused as far as I'm concerned. "Fans" are too willing to accept the stance the club has choosen rather than make their own minds up. This isn't not a case of I disagree with a formation or team sheet it's a something you should be forming your own opinion of.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

All of it. I want a report thats consistent.

What is your point? I have heard it's one or the other.

Initially it was reported as 'Negrito' as this is what Suarez himself said he said when interviewed. This was 'gone with' for a while and then a few days ago some media sources started reporting that it was 'Negro'.

As I said this is irrelevant as the two words are race neutral in Uruguay.

What is your actual point? Are you actually trying to add anything here?

[Lenin.]

You're spot on. We've embarrassed ourselves big time on this issue. I couldn't believe the club printed t-shirt. When you think what that gesture is usually reserved for, global emergencies, serious tragedies, the urgent support of charities and for and to go ahead with the idea. Those people clearly didn't think it through. Face the music and accept the punishment so we can move on. Only more damage is being caused as far as I'm concerned. "Fans" are too willing to accept the stance the club has choosen rather than make their own minds up. This isn't not a case of I disagree with a formation or team sheet it's a something you should be forming your own opinion of.

........And still they appear. 

[callanlfc5times]

........And still they appear. 

Already been reported.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

You're spot on. We've embarrassed ourselves big time on this issue. I couldn't believe the club printed t-shirt. When you think what that gesture is usually reserved for, global emergencies, serious tragedies, the urgent support of charities and for and to go ahead with the idea. Those people clearly didn't think it through. Face the music and accept the punishment so we can move on. Only more damage is being caused as far as I'm concerned. "Fans" are too willing to accept the stance the club has choosen rather than make their own minds up. This isn't not a case of I disagree with a formation or team sheet it's a something you should be forming your own opinion of.

Just went through your old posts. Interesting that they pretty much (apart from the boxing and renault ones) slag off our manager, players, fans and club.

[Pistolero]

As a City & a Club, we've heard it all before, mate. We dont take it lying down. Ever.

In

fuckin

one.

[Coolie High]

Does it matter?

They are the two words reported variously in the media. Given the sources I would hazard a guess that this information, like several things along the way, have been leaked to the media.

I have looked up both words, consulted my mother (Who is fluent in Spanish) and I have spoken to friends who are from South America.

If it were the one word or the other in Uruguay then it makes no odds. They are pretty much the same thing.

As has been said before, South America didn't go through the Slave trade the way Britain, Europe and the United States did which probably goes a long way to explain why over time these words are as relevant as saying "Table" "Chair" or "Book" while in England and other involved countries, because of the despicable slave trade this goes a long way to explain why the word needs to be dealt with sensitively and with forethought in order not to offend.

The last part of your post makes no difference at all, race relations aren't all hunky dory in many parts of South America as well, and in place like Argentina with huge European populations, early black settlers were victimized as well. 

[Bernard Shakey]

What is your point? I have heard it's one or the other.

Initially it was reported as 'Negrito' as this is what Suarez himself said he said when interviewed. This was 'gone with' for a while and then a few days ago some media sources started reporting that it was 'Negro'.

As I said this is irrelevant as the two words are race neutral in Uruguay.

What is your actual point? Are you actually trying to add anything here?

Ugh. My point is the inability for the wider press to even agree on what word has been said by Luis should be reason enough for fans to pause and stop with the speculation and the South American history lessons and wait til there's more transparency. You've pretty much decided its either 'negro' or 'negrito' and are running with it so good luck with that.

[Lenin.]

Already been reported.

Everyone of the c*nts has had their arses handed to them. You'd think at least one of them could make a valid fist of it without blowing their 'cover'.

[Third Account]

Everyone of the c*nts has had their arses handed to them. You'd think at least one of them could make a valid fist of it without blowing their 'cover'.

What?

[Bernard Shakey]

What?

Someone posted something he disagrees with and therefore that person must be a troll.

[callanlfc5times]

What?

[Johnnyboy1973]

Someone posted something he disagrees with and therefore that person must be a troll.

Have you read said persons personal text?