Graeme Souness. Steve McMahon. Didi Hamann. Javier Mascherano. Lucas Leiva.
Not even the biggest Lucas fan could deny that there's a huge difference in quality between the first four players and the Brazilian.
Liverpool have had some great defensive midfielders over the years, Souness, Stevie Mac, Didi and El Jefecito.
As much effort as Lucas puts in each week, he's simply nowhere near the quality of those four, and he never will be.
His performances this season have shown that he struggles when facing top class competition in midfield.
He played fantastically well against Bolton and Stoke, neither of whom possesses a single top class central midfielder. Against Arsenal, Spurs and Everton he spent a lot of time chasing shadows and giving the ball away needlessly.
This was also the case in a number of games against top class opposition last season.
His supporters will point to him having made the most successful tackles in the Premier League last season. His detractors will counter by saying he also lost the most tackles in the Premier League last season.
I'll simply point out that the reason he is required to make so many tackles is because it often takes him two and sometimes three attempts to win the ball.
His first time tackling success rate is not good enough and therein lies a problem for Liverpool.
Before anyone claims that because he won the supporters player of the year last season that it proves he's become some sort of footballing phenom.
Consider that only a fraction of Liverpool's global support voted in that competition and Lucas received only 40 percent of the vote.
A figure that would certainly have been much smaller had Luis Suarez played more than 13 games, or had Steven Gerrard had a normal Steven Gerrard season.
Without a defensive midfielder who can win the ball quickly and get his team moving in the opposite direction?
Liverpool have become a slow paced methodical team which they simply don't have the quality of players to be.
Last season, Liverpool played two defensive midfielders in Spearing and Lucas.
Liverpool had more success because Spearing won a far higher percentage of his tackles. Between them they were able to squeeze teams and get Liverpool moving on the counter attack.
Without a top class defensive midfielder, Liverpool will not be successful. Lucas is a great player to have in the squad, and his energy and enthusiasm are hard not to like.
But he's not good enough to be first choice and a replacement must be found.
Again there are a couple of options here.
Yann M'Vila is a player Liverpool were constantly linked with before the summer. Likely a player they would have pursued had he not declared his intentions to stay at Rennes prior to the transfer window opening.
For me there should be no other option. M'Vila is a beast and is going to be the best defensive midfielder in the world in the not too distant future.
Other possibilities are Moussa Sissoko, Jack Rodwell and perhaps the return of El Jefecito.
Ok that last one is highly unlikely but if Barca do push ahead with a move for Javi Martinez, then Masch could find himself looking for new employment.
You've tried to come up with something new there, I'll give you credit for that. Although "the reason he is required to make so many tackles is because it often takes him two and sometimes three attempts to win the ball" shows quite the misunderstanding of what the stats mean. "Against Arsenal, Spurs and Everton he spent a lot of time chasing shadows and giving the ball away needlessly" is demonstrably false, unless you take his "needlessly" as the get out clause that allows you to dismiss any stat that concretely disproves your point. However, a couple of posts from your first page of post history.
Exhibit A, 2nd Jan 2011
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and it is strange how opinion can be divided about the same player. These are the 2 same managers who play Kuyt in every game and Lucas & Kuyt are the 2 of the reasons why this team has not progressed in the last few years. Slower than tortoises, first pass always backwards, slow the game down whenever we are trying to brake at speed, give away upmteen fouls, running around like headless chickens, the list goes on and on."
http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=268357.msg7920220#msg7920220Exhibit B, 2nd Jan 2011
"Lucas Leiva is not a Liverpool quality player- he is to weak and goes missing when the going gets tough. Masch & Hamman are the yardsticks of DMs and we will struggle until we get a player of that quality."
http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=268357.msg7920011#msg7920011Absolutely filled with media cliches, "slower than tortoises", "first pass always backwards", "give away upmteen (sic) fouls". And what do we know about people who repeat media cliches and claim it to be their own thoughts? The 2nd post is a gem as well, with "weak and goes missing when the going gets tough". 13 points from 6 games against the top 4 last season in games where Lucas started but not Mascherano. Away wins at Old Trafford, Stamford Bridge, Emirates and San Siro. We could even argue, justified by the concrete evidence we have, that Lucas is even more effective when the going gets tough, and becomes a, possibly even the, pivotal player on the pitch. And of course, just one more.
Exhibit C, 2nd Jan 2011
"Did you watch the game against Bolton yesterday- how many times was he easily shrugged of the ball?. The only decent game he has had that I can remember is against a very poor Chelsea team this season which did not even have a DM playing for them."
http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=268357.msg7920082#msg7920082He played against them again in February, and this time Chelsea brought all their big guns out, Essien, Lampard et al. Did Lucas wilt in the face of this full strength Chelsea side? No, out of an all star midfield 8, Lucas emerged as the most impressive of the lot. At Stamford Bridge. Ancelotti even name checked him in his explanation of how the game was lost.
