Topic: How Lucas Leiva became a Liverpool player

[hedger]

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To those who say Lucas is not good enough for LFC.  This photos sums up the kind of situation he finds himself in regularly when Gerrard (who I rate but not as a CM) plays.  Lucas is left trying to cover the whole of midfield.  How can he expect to look marvellous.  In this particcular image, the midfielders are close together making Lucas's job slightly easier, but the usual situation is that he is left covering the whole of the midfield with less inept opposition and he is left chasing across the whole pitch on his own.  Out team is more balanced with Raul and Lucas at CM, never mind how good Gerrard is as a player.

Credit to surfer whose image I have borrowed from the Captain Fantastic thread.

Have a look at the picture again. There is 4 bolton players, we have 5 players all in position. Unless you want to play for 0-0 draw our midfielders must try to get forward to support the front men. FFS people want to give Lucas a medal for making a few tackles. 

[macmanaman]

How Lucas Leiva became a Liverpool player?!!? He is not yet a Liverpool Player for me!...not even near.

Fucking stupid post. Liverpool is fucking 9th on the table at the moment, not in the CL, and you expect every Liverpool player should be what ? World class ?.
In your opinion, what is a Liverpool player ?  If Lucas is not a Liverpool player yet then we don't even have enough 11 player to field a team.

[Cadno]

No i dont think you can mate, I cant see your neck...... oh wait is that it there with your head? up lucas's arse?

Yea I think it might be

Theres the old hater spirit. If you dont like somthing insult it.  Doesn't matter if you look a little wsilly in the process

[Diomedieocre]

How Lucas Leiva became a Liverpool player?!!? He is not yet a Liverpool Player for me!...not even near.

Dont you worry Mrs Poulson im sure if uncle Roy stays he`ll get rid of that horrible little lad keeping your Cristy-wisty out of the team.

[surfer. Fuck you generator.]

Have a look at the picture again. There is 4 bolton players, we have 5 players all in position. Unless you want to play for 0-0 draw our midfielders must try to get forward to support the front men. FFS people want to give Lucas a medal for making a few tackles. 

There's a Bolton player wide right out of frame. If you're going to dare make observations, do the work.

[KeithK83]

Dedication. Love for the fans and the club. respect for our traditions and a continously improving footballing talent... Thats Lucas Leiva

[Diomedieocre]

Have a look at the picture again. There is 4 bolton players, we have 5 players all in position. Unless you want to play for 0-0 draw our midfielders must try to get forward to support the front men. FFS people want to give Lucas a medal for making a few tackles. 

Are you on the windup? or do you think it`s a good idea to get get caught four against four at the back...im questioning weather you know your arse from your elbow to be frank(here`s a clue, it`s what your talking out of).

[surfer. Fuck you generator.]

Are you on the windup? or do you think it`s a good idea to get get caught four against four at the back...im questioning weather you know your arse from your elbow to be frank(here`s a clue, it`s what your talking out of).

There's a Bolton player on their right flank during that play that was not captured in frame mate. That makes it five against five, with two central players outnumbering Lucas, with a quick option for a one two, which thankfully didn't happen.

Hedger, stick to strongly worded opinions. You're tactically clueless. You're resorting to downright lying to distort the issue.

[steve10]

Lucas Leiva is not a Liverpool quality player- he is to weak and goes missing when the going gets tough. Masch & Hamman are the yardsticks of DMs and we will struggle until we get a player of that quality.

[Always_A_Red]

How Lucas Leiva became a Liverpool player?!!? He is not yet a Liverpool Player for me!...not even near.

Good enough for the brazilian national starting 11 but not yet a Liverpool player???it really does amaze me how fucking clueless some people can be.He has been consistently in our starting 11 for nearly 2 years,and has been voted player of the season so far by the fans on the official lfc tv channel but still people think he is not Liverpool quality??he even had a spell this season where he had 6 misplaced passes in 3 games...6passes in 3 games!!!wake up mate ffs

[BIGdavalad]

goes missing when the going gets tough

No he doesn't though. In fact he's one of the few players in our side who doesn't go missing. And also one of the few players willing to get into a scrap to stick up for his team mates.

And I'd choose him over Masch for the majority of a Premier League season, if I had to have one or the other.

[BIGdavalad]

he even had a spell this season where he had 6 misplaced passes in 3 games...6passes in 3 games!!!wake up mate ffs

Yeah but he only passes backwards and sideways. Andy fucking Gray said so.

[Diomedieocre]

There's a Bolton player on their right flank during that play that was not captured in frame mate. That makes it five against five, with two central players outnumbering Lucas, with a quick option for a one two, which thankfully didn't happen.

Hedger, stick to strongly worded opinions. You're tactically clueless. You're resorting to downright lying to distort the issue.

Even worse then, can you imagine if there was no shield(in Lucas), one of the defenders steps forward and thier in like flynn.

Regarding Hedger...Its a fantastic example of why some people dont rate Lucas...ignorance.

[Cadno]

Lucas Leiva is not a Liverpool quality player- he is to weak and goes missing when the going gets tough. Masch & Hamman are the yardsticks of DMs and we will struggle until we get a player of that quality.

Have you any examples of this going missing or weakness?  Id love to see some examples and well thought out analysis

[supaerheraw]

Lucas Leiva is not a Liverpool quality player- he is to weak and goes missing when the going gets tough. Masch & Hamman are the yardsticks of DMs and we will struggle until we get a player of that quality.

Oh my... It never stops!

[steve10]

Have you any examples of this going missing or weakness?  Id love to see some examples and well thought out analysis

Did you watch the game against Bolton yesterday- how many times was he easily shrugged of the ball?. The only decent game he has had that I can remember is against a very poor Chelsea team this season which did not even have a DM playing for them.

[mulhergremista]

the game pasts this man by, just look at the impact that gerrard is having and then watch lucas - worlds apart. the gap between the two players shouldnt be that big

Somebody asked Lucas his opinion about GERRARD performance in the last game

He answered: He was excellent as usual

his is his way to comment about Gerrad.

I may add something

Gerrard enjoy go to the attack, and he is very good at it,  what Lucas did wa thye same what he did many times last year and before.  He covered for
him in the defense,  anabling him to shine. 

The gap is here, somebody has to do the dirty, unseen work, deffering toward his hero.

He feels good with it, he feels good to answer the twitters that insult him with "thank you"

I don't have anything more to say and I don't always understand his attitude in the matter.  It is almost Japanese, everybody who ever practice martial arts  know that.  Always helping and unconditionally support your seniors in the group.

He is reallly like that, sincer about it.

You can change your "average"  with " Engine room worker,  unseen, covers for some of hi glorious team mates"  It was written in a comment for his game in the NT,  I am quoting it from memory, maybe these are not the exact words,  I hope you understand me

, if you don't blame it on my defective English

THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMMENT

[red_dub]

Every Lucas  basher should look at the fact that the two Liverpool managers he's played with rates him, numerous brazil couches rate him and his team mates rate him. The stats clearly show he is a tough tackler and a player who doesn't give the ball away. These are facts yet people sit there waitin for him to make one mistake to have a go. People should take the tinted glasses of and see that we have a young professional, talented footballer who is developing into a world class midfielder and I think he will be world class once he continues him progress.

[Diomedieocre]

Did you watch the game against Bolton yesterday- how many times was he easily shrugged of the ball?. The only decent game he has had that I can remember is against a very poor Chelsea team this season which did not even have a DM playing for them.

Yes i watched the game...im sorry but i must of missed all the shrugging off the ball that you saw..i only noticed him trying to win tackles, his possesion rate stood out much more to me...but then again if your sat with baited breath waiting for the slightest mistake you would notice it...you must of had a field day watching Stevie then against the wolves.

Also the poor Chelsea side?...top of the league at the time...with the 45million quid trio in the middle including Def midfielders Ramirez and Obi Mikel.

[leivapool]

No i dont think you can mate, I cant see your neck...... oh wait is that it there with your head? up lucas's arse?

Yea I think it might be

Please try and maintain some dignity.  I have never been rude to anyone on this forum.  I argue my point, and give my opinion using evidence if I have any.  May I suggest you try and do the same?

[surfer. Fuck you generator.]

Please try and maintain some dignity.  I have never been rude to anyone on this forum.  I argue my point, and give my opinion using evidence if I have any.  May I suggest you try and do the same?

That is classy. I wish I had that kind of self-control, although it's been kept well in check for once today

[leivapool]

That is classy. I wish I had that kind of self-control, although it's been kept well in check for once today

I vaguely remember hearing someone say that intelligent fans understand what Lucas brings to the pitch, unintelligent ones don't.  Wish I could find the quote..............!

[steveeastend]

No i dont think you can mate, I cant see your neck...... oh wait is that it there with your head? up lucas's arse?

Yea I think it might be

Your comparisons are getting better every day, as your arguments...

[steve10]

Every Lucas  basher should look at the fact that the two Liverpool managers he's played with rates him, numerous brazil couches rate him and his team mates rate him. The stats clearly show he is a tough tackler and a player who doesn't give the ball away. These are facts yet people sit there waitin for him to make one mistake to have a go. People should take the tinted glasses of and see that we have a young professional, talented footballer who is developing into a world class midfielder and I think he will be world class once he continues him progress.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and it is strange how opinion can be divided about the same player. These are the 2 same managers who play Kuyt in every game and Lucas & Kuyt are the 2 of the reasons why this team has not progressed in the last few years. Slower than tortoises, first pass always backwards, slow the game down whenever we are trying to brake at speed, give away upmteen fouls, running around like headless chickens, the list goes on and on.

[BIGdavalad]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and it is strange how opinion can be divided about the same player. These are the 2 same managers who play Kuyt in every game and Lucas & Kuyt are the 2 of the reasons why this team has not progressed in the last few years. Slower than tortoises, first pass always backwards, slow the game down whenever we are trying to brake at speed, give away upmteen fouls, running around like headless chickens, the list goes on and on.

How many fouls does Lucas give away and how often does he pass backwards rather than forwards? It must be fairly easy for you to show us how many fouls and backwards passes he plays per match?

[Torpedo Tommy]

Lucas is not a good enough footballer for us, regardless of his attitude, limited development in past season etc,  I have not seen enough to suggest that he will be anything better than an average player.

He would not get into another top european midfields starting team in my opinion.

He has played well for him in a few games this season, but id have loads of other premiership midfielders over him - players that no one would want us to purchase or re-purchase.

He seems like a nice person and someone who wants to do well and improve etc, but talk is cheap

You been watching us the last 18 months?

He's probably been our best player this season.

My only gripe was that he gave needless freekicks away but he's improved and matured

[Brentieke]

Lucas does look like he's having more and more of an influence on our play and is definitely improving.  But all this is coming as the team is steadily declining.

People were getting on his back when we had a midfield of Gerrard, Alonso and Mascherano, but now he's competing against/playing with Poulson, Spearing and Meireles.  Gerrard clearly isn't the force he was over a season ago, and those other 3 aren't in the same league as Alonso and Mascherano. For me, this is why he's starting to shine a lot more.

Kudos to him for knuckling down and getting on with it, though - I don't doubt his tenacity and his backbone, I just wonder if he'd still look as good as he currently does if he were playing in a fully functioning football team, performing at the top of their game.

Thats a great point mate.

I personally think he's greatly improved these 12 months and his best performances have been in big games. But I also wonder, had we not sold Masch, would Lucas still be anything other than a squad player?

[leivapool]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and it is strange how opinion can be divided about the same player. These are the 2 same managers who play Kuyt in every game and Lucas & Kuyt are the 2 of the reasons why this team has not progressed in the last few years. Slower than tortoises, first pass always backwards, slow the game down whenever we are trying to brake at speed, give away upmteen fouls, running around like headless chickens, the list goes on and on.

Have you looked at Lucas's chalkboard from yesterday or recently?  They completely debunk all the criticisms you have of Lucas.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/chalkboards/create

[Brentieke]

You been watching us the last 18 months?

He's probably been our best player this season.

My only gripe was that he gave needless freekicks away but he's improved and matured

One of my gripes with him is what a useless finisher he is. He should really improve in that respect because he's missed a few sitters in his time here.

Another point, less so now as he's a lot more deep, is that he should do a lot better in and around the 18 yard box. The runs against Lille and Benfica last season shows he's got that in his locker and Id like to see more of it.

[01harveyj]

Please try and maintain some dignity.  I have never been rude to anyone on this forum.  I argue my point, and give my opinion using evidence if I have any.  May I suggest you try and do the same?

Wind your neck in mate it was only a joke!  With a username like 'leivapool' its not as if your likely to ever find fault with anything he does

Your comparisons are getting better every day, as your arguments...

Thanks mate haha!  In all seriousness tho the lad is so biased towards lucas!


People using that still picture as an argument now have to be having a laugh no?  You could take a picture similar to that one in every game played in the country this weekend!  He's a defensive mid, it'd be a joke if he wasnt in that position!  in fact if you have any ambition to have an attacking team you want to see your team in a situation like we were in that picture every now and again!  If you want to attack you've got to be prepared to suffer counter attacks! 

[01harveyj]

Thats a great point mate.

I personally think he's greatly improved these 12 months and his best performances have been in big games. But I also wonder, had we not sold Masch, would Lucas still be anything other than a squad player?

Final sentence there sums up my point entirely!

[cathy-lfc-taff]

Sad what this thread has decsended into, started off so well. How some of you can keep your cool and argue your point so eloquently is beyond me. I am just exasperated by some of the mindless drivel spouted on here, sadly I feel youre wasting your time with your well-thought out replies backed up by examples and stats as I'm afraid some people just cant/dont want to be told. Lucas is shit remember? Sky said so. He's a Rafa buy and he gives the ball away/passes backwards/gets shrugged off the ball easily/gives away stupid needless fouls every game, and this will never ever change. Never mind that its been disproved on every count, common sense and you know, the truth, matters not one jot to these people.

[steveeastend]

Wind your neck in mate it was only a joke!  With a username like 'leivapool' its not as if your likely to ever find fault with anything he does

Thanks mate haha!  In all seriousness tho the lad is so biased towards lucas!


People using that still picture as an argument now have to be having a laugh no?  You could take a picture similar to that one in every game played in the country this weekend!  He's a defensive mid, it'd be a joke if he wasnt in that position!  in fact if you have any ambition to have an attacking team you want to see your team in a situation like we were in that picture every now and again!  If you want to attack you've got to be prepared to suffer counter attacks! 

See mate, I think he has an argument and more than valid points. He explains this with general statements on tactical movement, how Lucas is able to read a game, close down gaps and still make incredible passing, something Mascherano can´t otherwise he would get a game here or there at Barca.

He has everything an intelligent holding mifielder needs, reading a game, clever passing, know how to move to control the midfield and keep possession. I really cannot see what should be wrong with him other that he doesn´t do anything spectacular which is something the english like to prefer as the one and only judgement for a player.

He is faster than Alonso but slower than Mascherano.
His passing is better than the one form Mascherano and almost equal to the one of Alonso.
For that he helps a team keeping possession, something Mascherano couldn´t do.
He can read a game like Mascherano in defense but not quite the way like Alonso in attack but still his passing in attack is better than Mascheranos who regularly ran off the field with the ball at his feet.
He shoots worse than Alonso but just like Mascherano.
He cannot control a game on his own like Mascherano but who cares in today´s football where possession is everything.
His game intelligence is outstanding, something Mascherano had to learn under Rafa.
His technique is better than Mascheranos.

He plays for the brasilian international squad and is only 23 years old. Saying he is not class is just stupid as that simply cannot be the case when being 23 years old and having the abilities I described above. Lucas may not be the beast like Mascherano and may not have the long ball passing as Alonso but he can do things they BOTH couldn´t do. And that´s what makes him so special.

[Diomedieocre]

Final sentence there sums up my point entirely!

Masch didnt want to play for us. This "if he was here" nonsence is just that...Are there better players in Lucas`s position in the world?....yes....do we need to fork out 15mill plus for these players to replace Lucas? not in my opinion.

[lamonti]

Lucas acts as a very useful Liverpool barometer. Ask people their opinions on him and if they can't see his value, they're usually not worth listening to thereafter.

Indeed. You know when they start saying he's one of the best midfielders in the world that they're still drinking the kool-aid and don't know much about football, especially when people compare him to Alonso and say he's better.

Lucas is inconsistent ? he is one the most fucking consistent player in our club. And he improve consistently as well.
And what kind of fucking trademark is missing sitters ? Even Torres miss sitters.

Lucas is inconsistent because one week its that Chelsea performance and the next its his performance against Utrecht. His inconsistency is highlighted by the inconsistency of the team itself. He like everyone else was totally rubbish against Wolves and back to being pretty decent against Bolton. He didn't raise the team up when they needed it. Thats what players like Gerrard, Torres and Reina do. Lucas has played a fine supporting role in many big games but has yet to show real leadership.

I've lost track of the amount of sitters he has missed, particularly headers in the box. Man City home last season springs to mind. He's scored one (?) league goal (vs Newcastle 2009) in the 3 and half year seasons? Not enough by any means.

Still not to stick the boot in too much. He was alright yesterday and has been at times this season our best player, in particular his barnstorming game agasint Chelsea. Also like how he very much forced himself into the first team despite being discarded by Roy in accordance with Purslow's notes. Great attitude.

[leivapool]

Wind your neck in mate it was only a joke!  With a username like 'leivapool' its not as if your likely to ever find fault with anything he does

Thanks mate haha!  In all seriousness tho the lad is so biased towards lucas!


People using that still picture as an argument now have to be having a laugh no?  You could take a picture similar to that one in every game played in the country this weekend!  He's a defensive mid, it'd be a joke if he wasnt in that position!  in fact if you have any ambition to have an attacking team you want to see your team in a situation like we were in that picture every now and again!  If you want to attack you've got to be prepared to suffer counter attacks!

As you worked out, and I have never tried to hide, by my obvious username, I'm a big Lucas fan.  I genuinely beleive he will be a major player when our team starts winning consistently and challenges for the EPL and the cups.  You don't agree.  Thats fine.

What is not fine is the way you sprout unsupported facts that are obviously wrong.  If you don't like Lucas's style of play try and argue in an intelligent analytical way, basing your arguments on evidence from this season.

When he first arrived it took him a while to get his game adapted, and he did pass backwards.  He also admitted on his 60 mins interview that his body was still growing which meant it was harder for him to be accurate with his tackles.  This has now changed.  Lucas has now gained the confidence to play really good forward passes, i.e the assist for Babels goal against Villa 3 weeks ago.

What I object to is the inaccuracies in your posts.

"He always passes backwards"  No he doesn't
"He commits stupid fouls"  NO he doesn't, he committed less that Gerrard v Bolton
He doesn't score enough goals - He's a defensive mid as you say.  Sergio Busquets of Barca has a very similar strike rate, roughly 5 goals/100 games.

Does it ever occur to the haters that if they supported Lucas he would be an even better player and we as supporters would benefit.  It's the try 'supporting' approach.  Try it!

And I'm not a lad.

[sneakyg]

Lucas has improved for us, however in my opinion he still does not have the quality needed to be such a vital player for us, i have to also say that his commitment is also good and he does appear to want to do well.

if he was such a good player then their would not be a post (and all the other ones) dedicated to him.

[Brentieke]

Masch didnt want to play for us. This "if he was here" nonsence is just that...Are there better players in Lucas`s position in the world?....yes....do we need to fork out 15mill plus for these players to replace Lucas? not in my opinion.

So you wouldnt pay 15m for Masch?

[steveeastend]

Lucas is inconsistent because one week its that Chelsea performance and the next its his performance against Utrecht.

In your particular example he made up for Gerrards gaps in centre midfield for a decent control defensive wise against Chelsea ON HIS OWN. He is the youngest holding midfielder at a top club, the most demanding and important role in a team.

It would do him good to play alongside someone like Alonso or Meireles on a constant basis. But our comedy manager sets up a game plan in which a 23 year old has to deal with tactical inadequateness which demands more movement of every player than some intelligent game plan would.

 If he could play together with Meireles you wouldn´t see any inconsistency as them playing together enables them to work more efficiently in defense and wouldn´t take so much out of them.

[RJH]

One of my gripes with him is what a useless finisher he is. He should really improve in that respect because he's missed a few sitters in his time here.

Another point, less so now as he's a lot more deep, is that he should do a lot better in and around the 18 yard box. The runs against Lille and Benfica last season shows he's got that in his locker and Id like to see more of it.

I think it's his timing as much as anything that he needs to sort out.

I think yesterday was an example of that. He just needed to time his slide/lunge properly.
Similarly, he's pretty good at getting to the ball from corners, but because he's not quite timed his jump, he can't get the necessary direction on the header, and so it usually ends up going over the bar.